The Triple A Format

[RoddyFreeman]

I thought I'd start a new thread on this.

Programming a successful AAA station is walking a tightrope. You have to recognize that one of the A's stands for "alternative" when developing the playlist. You also have to keep in mind that you need a mass audience for the station to be successful.

I'm not sure a WXRT would work in this market.

KINK in Portland, OR is a Triple A station that I love, and I'm not the only one. The station and its program director, Dennis Constantine, have won numerous awards and always place in the top 5 for persons 25-54.

KINK conveys a unique mood, which I find compelling and relaxing. However, a lot of KINK's playlist is pop-ish, even AC-ish. I took a look at the station's website. Along with AAA groups such as Primitive Radio Gods, Death Cab for Cutie, Natalie Merchant and Clash, KINK plays Gnarls Barkley (Crazy), David Bowie (Let's Dance), Til Tuesday (Voices Carry), Sheryl Crowe (All I Want to Do) and Colbie Caillat (Realize). Neil, I wouldn't be surprised to hear Neil Simon songs other than Graceland.

Then again, Portland is not Atlanta. As much as I love KINK (and actually like the music on DAVE-FM), I'm not sure any PD could get much bigger numbers on DAVE with a Triple A format than the station currently has.

 

[amos]

First, I'm not a AAA listener, so this is all just from my perspective...

And, I realize that the station I'm about to mention has dropped AAA and changed to CHR.

But for a pretty long run WDOD in Chattanooga was pretty popular as a AAA station. While Chattanooga might not be a mini-Atlanta, wouldn't you say it's more like Atlanta than it's like Portland? I'm not sure what Dave FM does wrong, as I said I'm not a AAA listener, but I'd think if they did AAA more like WDOD did they'd have a loyal audience, maybe even a larger one.

-amos

 

[JohnAllan]

KINK conveys a unique mood, which I find compelling and relaxing. However, a lot of KINK's playlist is pop-ish, even AC-ish. I took a look at the station's website. Along with AAA groups such as Primitive Radio Gods, Death Cab for Cutie, Natalie Merchant and Clash, KINK plays Gnarls Barkley (Crazy), David Bowie (Let's Dance), Til Tuesday (Voices Carry), Sheryl Crowe (All I Want to Do) and Colbie Caillat (Realize). Neil, I wouldn't be surprised to hear Neil Simon songs other than Graceland.

Then again, Portland is not Atlanta. As much as I love KINK (and actually like the music on DAVE-FM), I'm not sure any PD could get much bigger numbers on DAVE with a Triple A format than the station currently has.

First off, not to be too picky, but it's PAUL Simon that did Graceland. Now, as for that play list, I've heard every one of them on Dave within the week. Dave (or it's music director) has made a few questionable choices lately. That thing they play, "Are We Human, Or Are We Dancers", THAT doesn't fit ANY format! And last night, going from Reggae to Mandolin Rain was questionable. I don't think Dave has a music problem, but more of a flow problem.

 

[mshawnarnold]

We have debated quite a bit about Dave and the AAA format, but, at the end of the day, isn't content really king here. I understand that the music, over Dave's lifespan, has been a bit schizophrenic and that must be corrected. However, with so many alternative methods of delivery for the music you want to hear (iPod's, XM/Sirius, CD's, and internet media sources like Pandora) isn't the great differentiator content? When you are competing with all these music sources, isn't the only way to make yourself stand out but the content you provide, i.e. your shows/jocks and the product that they give you around the music and commercials?

Look at Q100. They live off of the Bert Show. Is the music that much of a driver? I would argue no. I'm sure it matters for a small segment, but their revenue and ratings come from a solid content based show that has very little to do with musical selection. Mara Davis drives the listeners she drives primarily because of what Mara does, not necessarily the songs that play out during her shift. It seems to me that if Dave did a better job of establishing it's identity as a station and working on providing sound content laser focused at it's demo, that would make it extremely viable and the potential to be a decent sized biller.

So, what's the demo really. In my opinion (since I'm one of them) Dave hits on men and women in their 30s-40s who probably listened to a fair amount of 99X in it's heyday. And while the music certainly played a big role in 99's success, they also provided tremendous content. I really think that is the answer. People can get their music fix from a lot of places, but they can't get good, entertaining and intelligent, locally focused content. In my mind, that is the answer. But I'm certainly open to other opinions.

 

[JohnAllan]

It seems to me that if Dave did a better job of establishing it's identity as a station and working on providing sound content laser focused at it's demo, that would make it extremely viable and the potential to be a decent sized biller.

So, what's the demo really. In my opinion (since I'm one of them) Dave hits on men and women in their 30s-40s who probably listened to a fair amount of 99X in it's heyday. And while the music certainly played a big role in 99's success, they also provided tremendous content. I really think that is the answer. People can get their music fix from a lot of places, but they can't get good, entertaining and intelligent, locally focused content. In my mind, that is the answer. But I'm certainly open to other opinions.

Actually, I think you hit the nail on the head. Dave is the only non-voice tracked, full time station. If they take that and focus their content locally, then they can do wonders. And, just so you'll know, I am one of those who listened to 99X in its heyday, and I'm in the target demo.

 

[RoddyFreeman]

First off, not to be too picky, but it's PAUL Simon that did Graceland.

LOL. That's embarrassing. Just shows what happens to me just thinking about the great Neil Millman.

 

[agentUrge]

First off, not to be too picky, but it's PAUL Simon that did Graceland.

LOL. That's embarrassing. Just shows what happens to me just thinking about the great Neil Millman.

Roddy: you are music probation until you can prove yourself worthy.

 

[TheRealOtherNeil]

First off, not to be too picky, but it's PAUL Simon that did Graceland.

LOL. That's embarrassing. Just shows what happens to me just thinking about the great Neil Millman.

My paternal grandmother' maiden name is Shimon. Her older brother's son is playwright Neil Simon.

 

[D. Sgruntled]

I couldn't agree more. Dave needs to find its soul. And the jocks, like Mara, are a huge part of that. I do enjoy MOST of the music, but I always feel like something is missing and I do believe that is its soul.

 

[Zeb Norris]

Great, thoughtful thread.

One small point. One of the "A"s in AAA is for Aleternative... just so it could be called AAA, or Triple A.

The guy who coined the name (Jim Trapp) worked for The Hard Report. He and I worked at a station called KXXN. We couldn't get people to remember that, so we called it The Double X, which worked great. So he applied that same line of thinking to coming up with a name for the format. At that time, AAA played even less alternative music than it doe today.

 

[FloydB]

It seems to me that if Dave did a better job of establishing it's identity as a station and working on providing sound content laser focused at it's demo, that would make it extremely viable and the potential to be a decent sized biller.

So, what's the demo really. In my opinion (since I'm one of them) Dave hits on men and women in their 30s-40s who probably listened to a fair amount of 99X in it's heyday. And while the music certainly played a big role in 99's success, they also provided tremendous content. I really think that is the answer. People can get their music fix from a lot of places, but they can't get good, entertaining and intelligent, locally focused content. In my mind, that is the answer. But I'm certainly open to other opinions.

Actually, I think you hit the nail on the head. Dave is the only non-voice tracked, full time station. If they take that and focus their content locally, then they can do wonders. And, just so you'll know, I am one of those who listened to 99X in its heyday, and I'm in the target demo.

Hear here, I third this emotion. They've got good people. Mara's great, but she's not the only good one at the station. Orff, Sully (great job landing the plane, btw), Andy and Evon are great personalities. Margot gets lots of kudos, too. And, let's not forget the traffic reporters, Denzel and Renee. Each one of them do a great job when the leash is loose.

 

[OutOfTheBiz]

People can get their music fix from a lot of places, but they can't get good, entertaining and intelligent, locally focused content. In my mind, that is the answer. But I'm certainly open to other opinions.

Actually, I think you hit the nail on the head. Dave is the only non-voice tracked, full time station. If they take that and focus their content locally, then they can do wonders.

Hear here, I third this emotion. They've got good people. Mara's great, but she's not the only good one at the station. Orff, Sully (great job landing the plane, btw), Andy and Evon are great personalities. Margot gets lots of kudos, too. And, let's not forget the traffic reporters, Denzel and Renee. Each one of them do a great job when the leash is loose.

I think everyone agrees that Dave has far more "content" and yes, live and local talent than any other station in the market. And yet Dave's numbers are in the toilet.

At the beginning, middle and end of the day... it's all about the music. It's why people come to radio, period. If you play songs that people don't want to hear, you will lose. If you play songs people like, you will win. All you have to do is look at 97.1 The River as proof.

 

[StoneGT]

Agree that Dave's talent is great.

The problem is that Dave missed a HUGE opportunity when 99X went HD/Internet. Dave should have adjusted the playlist to skew a little more to the Alternative. Not drastically, but enough to reach out and grab those displaced 99X listeners.

It probably wouldn't have made sense to stretch out to include 99X artists like Atreyu or Metallica, but adding bands like Paramore and Anberlin, and putting the stuff that overlapped with 99X in heavier rotation (Coldplay, the Killers, Snow Patrol, etc) would have helped.

Instead, Dave's primary competition for alternative ears left the airwaves, and Dave went softer, like they were going after B98. They starting play Elton John - What the !!??
Elton John does not belong on any Triple A or Alternative station.

Dave could have been the number one Rock station, but now I worry about its future.

 

[TheRealOtherNeil]

I thought I would wait awhile before chiming in. This has been a good and intelligent discussion, which is rare for our little board.

Roddy is correct that programming a AAA is tightrope. You have to know what artists and songs fit the format.

XRT would work here but it has to be tweaked to fit locally. XRT was amongst the first to play: REM, U2, Nirvana, Elvis Costello, The Clash and…Jazz Butcher. (Let's see who gets that obscure reference).

As PD, I would identify 4-5 core artists and expand from there. For example, a core artist would be REM. I would play all bands who influenced REM (The Byrds, Neil Young, Patti Smith, Television, Flying Burrito Brothers and The Velvet Underground), bands who were influenced by REM (10,000 Maniacs, Sonic Youth, Nirvana, Pavement and Live) and REM. These 4-5 artists would be the stepping off point. Not saying I would only play those artists but when adding an artist I would see if I can draw a line to the core artist. (Right now Richard Meltzer is proud)

AAA defies polls, trends and research. It is more of a gut reaction to the music. All of an artist’s work does not fall under the AAA umbrella. Paul Simon is an example. His early solo work “Kodachrome” does, his late 1970’s doesn’t. The song “Late in the Evening” does and the album “Graceland” is AAA. It has to do with sound, which a non-AAA listener/programmer will not be able to pick up.

Someone brought up 99X and that is a great point. Those 18-24 year olds who listened to 99X in the heyday are now 35-45 years old and are prime AAA listeners. If memory serves, 99X used to have a 5.0 rating. There is no reason that 929 Radio Atlanta can’t have similar ratings. And guess what, those listeners now have money! They can buy better cars, bigger homes and better beer.

To the learned poster who says Grandma Elton is not AAA. You can’t make that blanket of a statement. EJ does have albums (“Madman Across the Water”) and songs (“Empty Garden” and “Mona Lisa and Madhatters”) that fit the AAA format.

 

[jabba17]

What I want to know is why "The Devil Is My Friend" by the Jazz Butcher is still out of print...even for download...

OK, here's my take on AAA. My strictly personal beef with AAA is that it seems to focus on cognoscenti rock, or "cog-rock" for short. No guilty pleasures allowed. That is, a radio station programmed by Jan Wenner and other critics and their darlings. A station that is afraid to take a chance on something that someone might call weird despite positioning itself as the polar opposite. A little bit highbrow or "artsy-wartsy", if you would.

AAA stands for Adult Album Alternative. Why does it, then, tread so lightly on 70s and 80s "alternative" music (we didn't call it alt back then, but Sirius and XM do today)? Why so little classic MTV stuff? Is it not soft enough to be "adult"? If so, I can understand. If it is because those artists, except for the U2s and R.E.M.'s of that time, didn't get good reviews in Rolling Stone, etc. despite good sales at the time, then pooh-pooh on the format. I know that era had a bunch of MTV-spawned one-hit wonders, but that's not the whole story. Duran Duran had a new album in 2005, for example. I bet AAA turned its collective nose up at it.

In a way, this was similar to my problem with 99X. 99X started playing a moderate amount of 80s stuff, but then went strictly 90s as the 80s became "uncool" (again, excepting the R.E.M.'s and U2s). Unfortnately for me, I could never "get into" most 90s stuff. Why so arbitrarily close the door on a decade? 99X had an excuse because they were supposed to be playing mostly newer stuff, and evolved into a post-80s station, much as classic rock stations wouldn't play anything older than "Love Me Do", and later "Purple Haze", and most recently "Dream On". I don't think that an "adult" station gets that kind of pass.

Maybe AAA is more of a "state of mind" format than an easily describable one based on hard vs. soft, currents vs. recurrents vs. catalog vs. oldies, mainstream vs. alternative vs. rhythmic, etc.

I'm not trying to make AAA into something it never was meant to be, such as hard AC or a decade format, or "Jack Lite". But it seems like AAA playlists are all quite arbitrary without being definable, and arbitrary in a way that I personally don't like, and arbitrary without taking any chances.