The Ultimate Train Wreck?

[ChannelFlipper]

As we have recently been talking about train wrecks (see https://www.radiodiscussions.com/showthread.php?709211-As-the-Earth-Turns/page6), I heard a doozy that I just couldn't believe I would ever hear on major market radio a few weeks ago. It was on KJKK, 100.3 in Dallas, which plays the "Jack" format in the Dallas Metroplex. I was riding to the airport about 4:00 in the afternoon on a Tuesday, so this is in early afternoon drive.

First the setup. They go into a commercial break with a contest - "Name the earliest US #1 single for Sheena Easton. Is it "Morning Train (9 to 5)", "For Your Eyes Only", or (if my memory is correct) "You Could Have Been With Me"?" First caller with the correct answer gets the dopey prize. They come out of the break and yes, lucky winner, you are correct it was indeed "Morning Train (9 to 5)" and they go ahead and spin the tune. What knocked me out was after all of that, the very next tune to spin is the Scorpions "Rock You like a Hurricane".

Being both a fan of pop and rock music including heavy metal, this was absolutely no problem for me, but I am not your typical radio listener and I couldn't believe such a train wreck would be allowed to air, particularly in major market drive time. I remember the 80's well and except for radio nerds like me, those who listened to Sheena Easton were not the same people who were listening to the Scorps. I am not sure if that has changed any now. Maybe?

I am sure even bigger train wrecks have been played, but this one sure got my attention.

 

[TheBigA]

I am sure even bigger train wrecks have been played, but this one sure got my attention.

Maybe you don't understand the phrase "Playing what we want." It guarantees that you will hear two songs that have nothing to do with each other back to back. This is not KMET with well-thought-out segues featuring two songs dealing with the same subject.

In fact, the name of the format, to be instructive about it, is Variety Hits. What does that mean to you? To me, it means drawing from a variety of genres. Some people like to mix things up a little bit. Some times you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't. That's what this format is about. Which is not unlike KHJ playing the Rolling Stones Jumpin' Jack Flash followed immediately by Bobby Goldsboro's Honey.

 

[davideduardo]

I am sure even bigger train wrecks have been played, but this one sure got my attention.

It really does not matter where songs were played in the 70's... an AOR or a Top 40 station... but it does matter what the target listener likes today.

What you describe as a "train wreck" is actually what listeners perceive as proof that the station has the best variety of songs they like. The library is researched, and programming a few occasional high-contrast segues serves to show how the station is better than those other bland and more smoothly transitioned ones.

I've often intentionally programmed such segues, usually with a liner that emphasizes variety but without using that awful word.

In research, I've found that many, many, many people listen to their song library on the equivalent of shuffle so that they "won't hear all the songs that sound alike in a row."

 

[davideduardo]

Which is not unlike KHJ playing the Rolling Stones Jumpin' Jack Flash followed immediately by Bobby Goldsboro's Honey.

Yikes. I liked both of them "then" but only one of them "now". The other one makes me heave.

 

[LKellerIII]

Which is not unlike KHJ playing the Rolling Stones Jumpin' Jack Flash followed immediately by Bobby Goldsboro's Honey.

Ugh! That's for starting out my morning with 1968 era PTSD. Robert W. Morgan probably did this very thing...(drum roll)..."Fifty years ago, today."

 

[CTListener]

Ugh! That's for starting out my morning with 1968 era PTSD. Robert W. Morgan probably did this very thing...(drum roll)..."Fifty years ago, today."

Funny thing was, as a suburban Boston teenager, I thought nothing of the mix of rock, pop, soul, MOR and even crossover country on WRKO and WMEX. Some I liked, some I didn't like, but there were no other stations on the dial playing the songs I really liked. Looking back, the amazing thing was that this sort of something-for-everyone Top 40 radio lasted as long as it did after FM became commercially viable.

 

[TheBigA]

When Hootie & The Blowfish went into retirement about ten years ago, its lead singer Darius Rucker became a country singer. He's had a bunch of country hits since then. If you go to a Darius show, he still does several Hootie hits, plus his encore is Purple Rain and Hank Jr.'s Family Tradition. The entire audience knows every word to every song. Formats exist only in the minds of radio programmers.

 

[LKellerIII]

Formats exist only in the minds of radio programmers.

That's true. I know that my tastes cross all genres, and within those genres, I'm quite picky. For example, I like most of Norah Jones's songs, but when some computerized Pandora or Spotify algorithm tells me, "If you love Norah Jones, you'll also like_____________" then they suggest Michael Bolton, or Ed Sheeran. Uh, no...no thanks.

The same is true of most other genres too.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

That's true. I know that my tastes cross all genres, and within those genres, I'm quite picky. For example, I like most of Norah Jones's songs, but when some computerized Pandora or Spotify algorithm tells me, "If you love Norah Jones, you'll also like_____________" then they suggest Michael Bolton, or Ed Sheeran. Uh, no...no thanks.

The same is true of most other genres too.

Exactly. My musical tastes can not be predicted by your (very simplistic) algorithm!! I make little use of Pandora and Spotify for that very reason.

 

[CTListener]

That's true. I know that my tastes cross all genres, and within those genres, I'm quite picky. For example, I like most of Norah Jones's songs, but when some computerized Pandora or Spotify algorithm tells me, "If you love Norah Jones, you'll also like_____________" then they suggest Michael Bolton, or Ed Sheeran. Uh, no...no thanks..

I like Sheeran but find Jones a crashing bore. But I'm sure that, overall, most fans of one don't mind the music of the other, which is why the algorithm is what it is.

 

[oldies76]

Maybe you don't understand the phrase "Playing what we want." It guarantees that you will hear two songs that have nothing to do with each other back to back. This is not KMET with well-thought-out segues featuring two songs dealing with the same subject.

In fact, the name of the format, to be instructive about it, is Variety Hits. What does that mean to you? To me, it means drawing from a variety of genres. Some people like to mix things up a little bit. Some times you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't. That's what this format is about. Which is not unlike KHJ playing the Rolling Stones Jumpin' Jack Flash followed immediately by Bobby Goldsboro's Honey.

Trainwreck or not.....you don't play Sheena followed by the Scorpions. A gradual uptempo to that heavy metal tune would have been better over a span of maybe 3-4 songs in between. Both big hits, but playing them at the right times is key.

A much better transition would have been to play "Morning Train", " Billie Jean", "Rock the Casbah" followed by "Rock You Like A Hurricane"

They can play "what we want", but do it right for pete's sake.

 

[TheBigA]

They can play "what we want", but do it right for pete's sake.

You're imposing your rules on No Rules Radio. If you don't like it, don't listen. Lots of other stations.

But this is a very popular station in Dallas, so there's an audience for what they do, even if you don't like it.

 

[oldies76]

You're imposing your rules on No Rules Radio. If you don't like it, don't listen. Lots of other stations.

But this is a very popular station in Dallas, so there's an audience for what they do, even if you don't like it.

So would you play a heavy metal tune right after a soft pop song that is rarely even played on classic hits radio? If anything, the Scorpions tune is in a different genre than what typical CH stations offer. It's a trainwreck as Flipper mentioned.

It's not my rules, it's common sense.

 

[TheBigA]

It's not my rules, it's common sense.

It's your rules. There's no "common sense" on a station that plays whatever they want. That's part of the attraction.

There are lots of other stations built around tight formats. This is not one of them. Move on.

 

[oldies76]

It's your rules. There's no "common sense" on a station that plays whatever they want. That's part of the attraction.

There are lots of other stations built around tight formats. This is not one of them. Move on.

Well, I think you know by now that I'm all for stations to play what they want with looser formats, but playing them correctly and at the right time is another matter. And you didn't answer my question as to whether you'd play the Scorpions right after Sheena.

 

[TheBigA]

And you didn't answer my question as to whether you'd play the Scorpions right after Sheena.

It's not my job. But when I listen to music in my own house, it's not unusual for me to play different genres back to back.

As I said, this is a popular radio station. If what they're doing is wrong, it wouldn't be so popular.

 

[davideduardo]

Well, I think you know by now that I'm all for stations to play what they want with looser formats,

"Jack" is not a loose format. It is well researched and uses "attitude" as a way of positioning itself. That "attitude" comes not just from the imaging, but from doing the unexpected and the unusual in scheduling.

but playing them correctly and at the right time is another matter.

The whole "Jack plays what he wants" reflects the attitude of the typical listener who will play different genres, eras and sounds back to back on their own music device. The segue you are discussing is a perfect example of skillful programming by radio pros.

And you didn't answer my question as to whether you'd play the Scorpions right after Sheena.

The correct answer, in this context, is "yes". But not often as it would then be predictable. This type of contrast segue is a magnificent device to demonstrate variety in a format that stresses non-predictability.

You are trying to impose AC formatics on a different kind of station.

IOW, that dog won't hunt.

 

[davideduardo]

Trainwreck or not.....you don't play Sheena followed by the Scorpions..

You don't, but you are not programming a major market radio station.

KJKK wobbles between 2nd and 9th in 25-54 in the last 13 books, and in 2018 so far has averaged 4th in the sales demo. That is a brilliant performance in a highly competitive market and shows that you do play Sheena followed by The Scorpions.

 

[TheBigA]

This conversation gets back to something I like to say when people complain about particular formats and playlists. If ever someone feels a particular format has become repetitive, all they have to do is press the SCAN button, and listen to the next station. They will hear a bunch of songs they either haven't heard before, or songs they haven't heard in a while. That's all it takes. It's very easy. That's what cluster programming is about...offering multiple choices for listeners with the goal of hopefully keeping listeners within one ownership cluster. So in Dallas and LA, Entercom has a Classic Hits station that play Top 40 and a Variety Hits stations that play rock and pop hits. They often hover around the same era, but they do it differently. So if someone is bored with KRTH, they can spend a week or two with KCBS, and they'll hear a different presentation that is aimed at about the same demographic. Both of these stations are getting great ratings and making pretty good money.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

You don't, but you are not programming a major market radio station.

KJKK wobbles between 2nd and 9th in 25-54 in the last 13 books, and in 2018 so far has averaged 4th in the sales demo. That is a brilliant performance in a highly competitive market and shows that you do play Sheena followed by The Scorpions.

Actually they should follow Morning Train WITH "Sheena is a Punk Rocker" (The Ramones) ... Now THAT would get your attention!!