The Wave Is Playing Fewer Instrumentals?

[Gregg]

I'm not in the market but often listen to the Wave's audio stream. (I've been a fan of the Wave since they first signed on, with no DJs, new age music part of the mix and a group of actors dong little skits at the top of each hour... remember that?) I noticed only today that I'm hearing only a few instrumentals per hour!

In the ratings they list themselves as Smooth AC, not Smooth Jazz. But now it sounds like they're playing three or four vocals in a row before airing an instrumental Smooth Jazz song.

I think it's a great station and I encourage them to do whatever they must to hang on, especially since we're losing one or two big Smooth Jazz stations per month these days. It seems KTWV hasn't expanded its vocal selections much. I'm still hearing the R&B ballads and pop songs with a bit of a jazz/rhythmic feel that The Wave is known for. And those are vocals I happen to like anyway. But it is odd to hear so few instrumentals on The Wave.

In the last BBM report, The Wave was still among the top 10 earning stations in LA and among the biggest in the U.S. So it's safe for now. But for how long? Will minimizing instrumentals help? Will Brian McKnight's morning show bring some new listeners to the station? Why don't today's young adults, living lives filled with noise, traffic and stress, find their way to Smooth Jazz as their older siblings and cousins did?



Gregg
[email protected]

 

[david]

Gregg...There is a good profile of KTWV's evolution under their new PD Jhani Kaye in Friday, March 5th's LARadio.com:

He discusses how he has tightened things up in terms of the production values of the radio station stating "We didn’t want songs to play all the way out to zero any longer. We started to tighten up the segues and we also injected a bit of energy into the air talent. They had been trained to pretty much announce in a laid-back style and I removed that restriction from them so that they can be bright, bouncy and upbeat.”

Musically, Jhani reduced the number of instrumentals by a couple per hour, “But we didn’t eliminate them so it is still a Smooth AC and we’ll continue to evolve it.”

Check out the full story, which appears on the front page this weekend on http://www.laradio.com

 

[Shoot From Hip]

Station is no longer in the top 10 in earnings in the market. Not far off..but not top 10.

 

[majaman78]

I'm not in the market but often listen to the Wave's audio stream. (I've been a fan of the Wave since they first signed on, with no DJs, new age music part of the mix and a group of actors dong little skits at the top of each hour... remember that?) I noticed only today that I'm hearing only a few instrumentals per hour!

In the ratings they list themselves as Smooth AC, not Smooth Jazz. But now it sounds like they're playing three or four vocals in a row before airing an instrumental Smooth Jazz song.

I think it's a great station and I encourage them to do whatever they must to hang on, especially since we're losing one or two big Smooth Jazz stations per month these days. It seems KTWV hasn't expanded its vocal selections much. I'm still hearing the R&B ballads and pop songs with a bit of a jazz/rhythmic feel that The Wave is known for. And those are vocals I happen to like anyway. But it is odd to hear so few instrumentals on The Wave.

In the last BBM report, The Wave was still among the top 10 earning stations in LA and among the biggest in the U.S. So it's safe for now. But for how long? Will minimizing instrumentals help? Will Brian McKnight's morning show bring some new listeners to the station? Why don't today's young adults, living lives filled with noise, traffic and stress, find their way to Smooth Jazz as their older siblings and cousins did?



Gregg
[email protected]

KTWV is a shell of its former glory and plays basically the same garbage the rest of AC radio plays. Stale crappy radio.

In one word it sucks.

 

[calguy]

Kaye's background is Top 40 in the 70's and 20 years of AC. He knows his strengths and he knows good radio so none of what he has done is any surprise. The real surprise is that he stayed with some smooth jazz music at all. The popular belief is that he would go AC and take on KOST head to head. What appears to be happening now is a slow move in that direction.

majaman78 says is stale and boring. May be true, but no one takes chances now days. This is because big business bought radio after the Communications Act of 1996 and big business doesn't do anything without researching it down to it's most boring state. They want to appeal to the masses, not the minority. That's what Public Radio is for. Personally I've tried to listen to the "Great" KCRW and it bores the crap out of me. No, commercial radio is all about making money, and you can't do that playing obscure music.

 

[majaman78]

majaman78 says is stale and boring. May be true, but no one takes chances now days. This is because big business bought radio after the Communications Act of 1996 and big business doesn't do anything without researching it down to it's most boring state. They want to appeal to the masses, not the minority. That's what Public Radio is for. Personally I've tried to listen to the "Great" KCRW and it bores the crap out of me. No, commercial radio is all about making money, and you can't do that playing obscure music.

You are correct. But KTWV was pretty exciting radio when they first came on the air. At least it was different. Now all formats are dumbed down and radio is boring as hell listening to the same 100 song playlists every day.

Doesn't matter much, anyway. I no longer listen to terrestrial and the future of radio will reside on the 'net where overhead is low and you'll finally have more choices. I'm already listening to streaming on my iPhone and take it everywhere, even in the car.

Satellite radio's days are numbered, too, IMO.

 

[JR1967]

Gregg, like you, I am outside the SoCal area but have streamed 94.7 at times. However, you may want to give KSBR 88.5 out of Saddleback College in Mission Viejo a shot (www.ksbr.net). They play some of the best continuous smooth jazz/jazz music anywhere on the dial or online. On weekends, they have a great variety of special music shows and I find myself listening to them more than 94.7 anyway.

Also, try KIFM San Diego (www.kifm.com)-they play a great variety of smooth jazz and AC music, but more evenly.

 

[davideduardo]

Station is no longer in the top 10 in earnings in the market. Not far off..but not top 10.

Nobody, even insiders, knows the earnings of every station in the market. We are able to get fairly close figures on the billings, but as to earnings even guessing is impossible.

 

[davideduardo]

In the last BBM report, The Wave was still among the top 10 earning stations in LA and among the biggest in the U.S. So it's safe for now.

It's safe as long as it distances itself from the perceptions of smooth jazz as being a 55+ format, which is death in LA.

I don't know what BBM is (well, I know it is the Canadian ratings service) and I did not know any report of station earnings was available anywhere.

As to billings (revenue) the 2009 numbers have not been released by BIA and others, but the extraps from known MK data indicate that the station is nowehere near being in the top ten any more.. the PPM really hurt it and perhaps the new direction as smooth AC will serve it better than being smooth jazz.

 

[calguy]

In the last BBM report, The Wave was still among the top 10 earning stations in LA and among the biggest in the U.S. So it's safe for now.

It's safe as long as it distances itself from the perceptions of smooth jazz as being a 55+ format, which is death in LA.

I don't know what BBM is (well, I know it is the Canadian ratings service) and I did not know any report of station earnings was available anywhere.

As to billings (revenue) the 2009 numbers have not been released by BIA and others, but the extraps from known MK data indicate that the station is nowehere near being in the top ten any more.. the PPM really hurt it and perhaps the new direction as smooth AC will serve it better than being smooth jazz.

David, perhaps Gregg meant PPM.

 

[davideduardo]

David, perhaps Gregg meant PPM.

How would a PPM report give any indication of station earnings?

 

[calguy]

David, perhaps Gregg meant PPM.

How would a PPM report give any indication of station earnings?

It wouldn't. Just trying to figure out what he was talking about. Maybe he thinks it does.

 

[majaman78]

majaman78 says is stale and boring. May be true, but no one takes chances now days. This is because big business bought radio after the Communications Act of 1996 and big business doesn't do anything without researching it down to it's most boring state. They want to appeal to the masses, not the minority. That's what Public Radio is for. Personally I've tried to listen to the "Great" KCRW and it bores the crap out of me. No, commercial radio is all about making money, and you can't do that playing obscure music.

If stations were using this approach in the '60's, you'd still be listening to Benny Goodman and Kay Kyser! lololololol

 

[calguy]

majaman78 says is stale and boring. May be true, but no one takes chances now days. This is because big business bought radio after the Communications Act of 1996 and big business doesn't do anything without researching it down to it's most boring state. They want to appeal to the masses, not the minority. That's what Public Radio is for. Personally I've tried to listen to the "Great" KCRW and it bores the crap out of me. No, commercial radio is all about making money, and you can't do that playing obscure music.

If stations were using this approach in the '60's, you'd still be listening to Benny Goodman and Kay Kyser! lololololol

Well Benny was pretty good...

 

[majaman78]

majaman78 says is stale and boring. May be true, but no one takes chances now days. This is because big business bought radio after the Communications Act of 1996 and big business doesn't do anything without researching it down to it's most boring state. They want to appeal to the masses, not the minority. That's what Public Radio is for. Personally I've tried to listen to the "Great" KCRW and it bores the crap out of me. No, commercial radio is all about making money, and you can't do that playing obscure music.

If stations were using this approach in the '60's, you'd still be listening to Benny Goodman and Kay Kyser! lololololol

Well Benny was pretty good...

Actually you're right!

OK, Kay Kyser and the Mitch Miller Band!!! lolol

 

[Gregg]

I meant BIA and confused it with the Canadian ratings service.

In the 2008 BIA report, The Wave was #9, just ahead of KRTH in that firm's estimate of station earnings. It was CBS's #2 LA station in earnings, with KROQ #1. 2009 is not out yet but I doubt THAT much can happen in a year... that The Wave can go from hero to dead man walking in 365 days.

As far as Majaman's comments, I'm amazed at how consistent The Wave is. I'd say out of those stations that are still here from 2000, The Wave is likely to sound the most today as it did then. Many of the DJs are the same. The top artists are pretty much the same. Other than the ratio of instrumentals to vocals, what does Majaman think is different today than it was 10 years ago? Yes, it's different than when it first signed on. DJs added, no more new age, but that happened in the Wave's first few years on the air. I doubt Majaman is remembering The Wave's debut. No one else so far has mentioned remembering when The Wave played New Age, such as George Winston or Andreas Vollenweider. Or when the Wave had actors doing skits at the top of the hour in place of DJ's... or Cheryl Bentyne of Manhattan Transfer singing a summery of the news.

Those were the days when Metromedia owned KTWV and it really was a pioneering radio station.



Gregg
[email protected]

 

[majaman78]

I meant BIA and confused it with the Canadian ratings service.

In the 2008 BIA report, The Wave was #9, just ahead of KRTH in that firm's estimate of station earnings. It was CBS's #2 LA station in earnings, with KROQ #1. 2009 is not out yet but I doubt THAT much can happen in a year... that The Wave can go from hero to dead man walking in 365 days.

As far as Majaman's comments, I'm amazed at how consistent The Wave is. I'd say out of those stations that are still here from 2000, The Wave is likely to sound the most today as it did then. Many of the DJs are the same. The top artists are pretty much the same. Other than the ratio of instrumentals to vocals, what does Majaman think is different today than it was 10 years ago? Yes, it's different than when it first signed on. DJs added, no more new age, but that happened in the Wave's first few years on the air. I doubt Majaman is remembering The Wave's debut. No one else so far has mentioned remembering when The Wave played New Age, such as George Winston or Andreas Vollenweider. Or when the Wave had actors doing skits at the top of the hour in place of DJ's... or Cheryl Bentyne of Manhattan Transfer singing a summery of the news.

Those were the days when Metromedia owned KTWV and it really was a pioneering radio station.



Gregg
[email protected]

You must be kidding.

There are much less instrumentals and more r n' b oldies and covers.

The old KTWV would have never played Michael Jackson, let alone other boring material like Billy Paul and Lionel Ritchie to name a couple. It sounds like all the other AC outlets.

And yes, I really do miss the days of Vollenweider, Checkfield, Vangelis, other world music.

But like some others have mentioned on the board, they had to dumb down the format to try and make more bucks.

It's just the 'effin way it is, and although I'll never listen again, is the way it will remain.

 

[calguy]

Billy Paul, love his stuff, great artist! As I recall the WAVE played Sting when they signed on. That's pretty mainstream. The vignettes were lame and while they played some mainstream they played a lot of obscure material as well. They experimented and I'll give them credit for that, but they also mishandled KMET until it had nowhere to go but off into the sunset. They bungled the termination of the staff too. By the early 90's they started to get it right. But lately, kind of stale. Not a lot of good new product, and voice tracked shifts, that's probably another way that cutting your budget can hurt a station. What's going on now is just the tip of the iceberg. A year from now Kaye will have tested new music to add to the library, changed the imaging and some of the air staff which I'm sure will be more "live". He's already done that to the evening shift. BY then he may have left smooth jazz music behind for full on AC, who knows. Only time will tell...

 

[majaman78]

I meant BIA and confused it with the Canadian ratings service.

In the 2008 BIA report, The Wave was #9, just ahead of KRTH in that firm's estimate of station earnings. It was CBS's #2 LA station in earnings, with KROQ #1. 2009 is not out yet but I doubt THAT much can happen in a year... that The Wave can go from hero to dead man walking in 365 days.

As far as Majaman's comments, I'm amazed at how consistent The Wave is. I'd say out of those stations that are still here from 2000, The Wave is likely to sound the most today as it did then. Many of the DJs are the same. The top artists are pretty much the same. Other than the ratio of instrumentals to vocals, what does Majaman think is different today than it was 10 years ago? Yes, it's different than when it first signed on. DJs added, no more new age, but that happened in the Wave's first few years on the air. I doubt Majaman is remembering The Wave's debut. No one else so far has mentioned remembering when The Wave played New Age, such as George Winston or Andreas Vollenweider. Or when the Wave had actors doing skits at the top of the hour in place of DJ's... or Cheryl Bentyne of Manhattan Transfer singing a summery of the news.

Those were the days when Metromedia owned KTWV and it really was a pioneering radio station.



Gregg
[email protected]

Hey Gregg:

Here's some downloads that might bring you back down memory lane. A guy I know has them out on a file sharing service.

The '87 scopes sound quite good, but the '90 ones are poor since he recorded them off of a phone of all things.

I think you might enjoy these nonetheless.

http://www.4shared.com/dir/15304719/729a4531/K_T_W_V_.html

 

[ChannelFlipper]

The most interesting and original time on KTWV was the initial few years. Even though they played a lot of New Age music I would otherwise not listen to, at least it was different and they were taking chances, while still playing some choice rock artists like Sting, Steely Dan and Dire Straits. The mix was actually quite well thought out and at times reminded me a bit of KNX-FM even though it was a different format.It was definitely the radio choice of some of the older females in my family who were in their "post-rock" phase of the late '80s.The vignettes were ridiculously bad though and so was the horrible morning show with the two ladies (can't remember their names any more, too many years have gone by, but the bad radio was unforgettable). All in all though, at least they were doing something new and interesting then, which is more than what can be said foroo radio nowadays.