The Wave vs The Coast

[calguy]

Listening to these two stations a lot in the last week and it sounds like The Wave is getting ever closer to becoming a real AC station. In the latest PPM they were only 6 tenths of a point from each other 6+.
The music is still vastly different on the two stations but the Wave seems to be getting closer every few months when new music gets added to their library. Which station to you find listening to easier on your ears? How do these two stack up against each other in talent? Can the Wave ever catch up without dumping the remaining smooth jazz cuts?

 

[wdb2003]

I notice the Wave adding new stuff on the weekends too. A few 80's records. Phil Collins "Sussudio" is now in rotation I havent heard that song in years. Im waiting to see if their gonna add Gotye later on down the road like KIFM in San Diego. That station is fully now a AC station too.

 

[davideduardo]

Listening to these two stations a lot in the last week and it sounds like The Wave is getting ever closer to becoming a real AC station. In the latest PPM they were only 6 tenths of a point from each other 6+.

But... KTWV is about 15 rank positions behind KOST in 25-54. KOST is inside the top 5, while KTWV is way outside that circle.

 

[calguy]

That may be true David, but things can always change. I'm sure that when KOST changed format to AC there weren't that many people giving them much of a chance against Magic 106 and KHTZ, but there they are, while the other two became something else they endured. I don't know if Jhani Kaye can do it again, but if anyone has a chance it's him. Personally I find the Wave a lot easier to listen to lately.

 

[RBRadioWaves]

I find KOST sort of DEPRESSING to listen too. While they still have JAM, it does not sound the same. It does not feel like a Southern California station. No Brian, Mike, Kim.

KTWV, on the other hand, has a full-time airstaff, heritage DJ's, a sound that SCREAMS Southern California, and a playlist that is unique to 94.7. It feels like the old KOST, but with Jazz mixed in.

 

[calguy]

Well they don't really match up that well to each other. KOST does not sound like it used to which is obviously what their program director's boss wanted from the get go. Some of my acquaintances in the business have postulated that CC wants them on a national playlist to match up with premium choice programming. Others think it was CC corporate that wanted the changes simply to reduce costs while others point to Andrew Jeffries and his wanting to remake the station for reasons most can't figure out.

The Wave is easier to understand. Keep the bulk of the audience you have while building new audience numbers by adding all the AC product and limiting the amount of smooth jazz product without losing it all together. For me, the Wave is easier on the ears. The deejays aren't talking a hundred miles an hour and quite frankly, it's a better overall staff. I'll go even further and say that KTWV has the better weekend staff as well, its even larger as KOST only has two weekender/fill-in positions versus the Wave's 4 or 5 with a couple of those being former KOST full-timers. It was interesting going back and forth between the two stations a few weeks back when KOST's former afternoon jock was filling in and up against his replacement at KOST. It's a bit of a difference. Sure can't figure out what KOST was thinking there.

Where KOST out shines KTWV has to be in contests with KOST seemingly out doing the Wave. But then again KTWV was never really known for much more than there trip anywhere in the world contest.

 

[larkin]

To me The Wave is a better listen. Constant improvement. The only misstep since Jhani Kaye took over was dropping Kim from the AM show.

 

[davideduardo]

Well they don't really match up that well to each other. KOST does not sound like it used to which is obviously what their program director's boss wanted from the get go. Some of my acquaintances in the business have postulated that CC wants them on a national playlist to match up with premium choice programming. Others think it was CC corporate that wanted the changes simply to reduce costs while others point to Andrew Jeffries and his wanting to remake the station for reasons most can't figure out.

Or, applying Ocam's Razor, research and common sense indicated that a move in the direction KOST has been going would accommodate growth for KBIG without sacrificing KOST's strong 25-54 turnout.

Premium Choice is a combination of talent and playlists. Stations can run their own playlist and run the talent from Premium Choice as the whole system is made up of workparts... think of it like a Lego set for radio.

Back to KOST simply picking the right path for the future, keep in mind that today's 25-54's have a very different feel and desire in regards to hosting... briefer, less intrusive voice work is generally wanted. And remember that CC has a "secret skunkworks" with Jay Guyther, Bob Michaels and Steve Casey working on how the listener behaves and what the listener really wants from radio and related distribution streams.

Given the cluster success of CC in LA, I don't think this is just guesswork... there is a team at work and well reasoned decisions.

The Wave is easier to understand. Keep the bulk of the audience you have while building new audience numbers by adding all the AC product and limiting the amount of smooth jazz product without losing it all together. For me, the Wave is easier on the ears.

The issue, as nice as it may sound, is that The Wave is waaaaay down in rank in 25-54, and is not an attractive sales proposition. And it is the very music mix you refer to that has vastly less appeal in 25-54.

Where KOST out shines KTWV has to be in contests with KOST seemingly out doing the Wave. But then again KTWV was never really known for much more than there trip anywhere in the world contest.

Those "take me away from my boring job and tight finances" contests are the core of some stations and are vastly more effective than most other kinds of contests.

 

[calguy]

To me The Wave is a better listen. Constant improvement. The only misstep since Jhani Kaye took over was dropping Kim from the AM show.

I think that was a cost cutting move more than anything, they even let their producer go. From what I hear Pat Prescott is going it alone.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

To me The Wave is a better listen. Constant improvement. The only misstep since Jhani Kaye took over was dropping Kim from the AM show.

I think that was a cost cutting move more than anything, they even let their producer go. From what I hear Pat Prescott is going it alone.

Neither station is really my thing because, as Dee Snider used to sing, "I Wanna ROCK!", but when I do get around to them, I actually find the Wave the more interesting listen because of the smooth jazz tracks. Makes it seem like there is more variety than there really is. Although the Wave has its own tight playlist, since I don't hear it that much (the smooth jazz tracks in particular), it doesn't come off as tight to me. And thankfully they don't play "Midnight Train to Georgia" twice a day anymore either.

Under the new program director, KOST's presentation is much more cluttered and a few song selections have been a bit puzzling - definitely not the smooth polished machine that it was when Jhani was running the place. I gotta believe the lack of continuity among the jocks and the more cluttered presentation has led to the KOST decline, but I bet a lot of it has to be Jhani's counter-programming.

Not that I like the new KOST any better, but ratings be damned, I personally hated the Jhani KOST for the very same reason it was so successful - the pure polished presentation of the same product day after day, week after week, year after year...the station literally never changed - you could set both your watch and your calendar by it - which to me meant it had no soul, but to its target demo, it was exactly what they were looking for. As we all know, things have gone pretty much straight downhill for KOST since Jhani left the building, but they need not worry just yet, after all, just three short months to Christmas Music!

 

[calguy]

While KOST's sound has suffered, it's ratings seemingly have not. As David has repeatedly told us KOST 25-54 is way above KTWV's. But where is KOST actually in that demo? There was a time when KOST was #1 or #2 25-54, but they had dropped a few slots last year. Where they are in that respect as of now I do not know. I have noticed that KOST isn't the clean yet loud station that it once was. It's super processed now and a little distorted, while the Wave and Kaye's other station KRTH have a beautiful sound, loud,clean and not super compressed. They have great separation too. I do think that the Wave could use a man on the air once in a while and have really noticed the difference when one of the guys fill-in. Of course that's something that is dictated by personal taste.

Yes, KOST was a well oiled machine, and with Stella Prado there it's probably still well run, but she had most of her power taken away by her boss. He was the guy who changed the clocks and jingles a few years back and it was a disaster for the better part of a year. But really, KOST isn't invincible. I don't know what the latest PPM says about nights, but I had noticed a real decline for the Love Songs show and it used to be one of the highest rated dayparts for years.

Anyone have any thoughts about the respective airstaffs? What about jingles, imaging, and overall presentation?

 

[davideduardo]

While KOST's sound has suffered, it's ratings seemingly have not. As David has repeatedly told us KOST 25-54 is way above KTWV's. But where is KOST actually in that demo? There was a time when KOST was #1 or #2 25-54, but they had dropped a few slots last year.

While the new Arbitron rules prevent book-specific data to be given out by subscribers, I can say that KOST is averaging "around" third in that demo, and the stations above it are in the same cluster.

Pricing is based on AQH persons, not rank. Rank is just a hurdle, as in "we buy ten deep in LA in adults 25-54 and pick stations that meat our cost per point goals and help our r&f goal, too." And in AQH Persons, KOST is actually a bit better than the average around a year ago.

I don't know what the latest PPM says about nights, but I had noticed a real decline for the Love Songs show and it used to be one of the highest rated dayparts for years.

Nights are underperforming the station, but since nearly all transactional sales are based on 6 AM to 7 PM, it really does not matter all that much.

Clear has, on average, three of the top 5 in 25-54 (another is a CBS property and the fifth is, usually, a Spanish language AC), and the total cluster shares are performing nicely... particularly with the huge KBIG showing. So the cluster strategy is working, and that is what is the main deciding factor today.

 

[calguy]

Yes David, Clear Channel does well in Los Angeles, and many other cities too, on that they can be complimented. One of the smartest things CC did was bring in Bob Pittman. But it doesn't make them pleasant to work for, or the best company. KOST is a heritage station in LA and one of the best in the nation for many years, but there's not much there to distinguish itself anymore. It sounds pretty much like every other AC that Clear Channel operates. It's kind of lost it's unique qualities. The Wave on the other hand does sound unique. It's cleaner, easier to listen to and while it's not kicking butt in the adult demos it does sound more substantive.

 

[DrLove]

From my side of the desk, which station - either KOST or KTWV - has created the best revenue stream for the company? Better yet, which signal shows the highest overall profits? I can view our own company's financial numbers monthly, but I can only guess about their dollars. It is interesting to watch your discussions, though.

 

[calguy]

Yes, well I don't know if David has those facts & figures. I would like to know the answer myself.

I listened to the Wave and KOST again today and I noticed even more songs that were not previously on the Wave's playlist being played. Songs that were very mainstream AC. And what's up with the jock filling in on the midday shift? She was talking so fast it was like listening to an old top 40 station from the 60's.

 

[davideduardo]

Yes, well I don't know if David has those facts & figures. I would like to know the answer myself.

Well, in 2011, KOST billed about 60% more than KTWV. KOST was ranked fourth in revenue while KTWV came in at 12th.

KTWV billed about 55% of what it billed in 2005, while KOST, or a loss of 45% while the KOST loss due to the economy was more on the order of 30%.

To be fair, KOST had format continuity all that time, and KTWV went through a thinly veiled shift from smooth jazz to soft AC with vestiges of the jazz format.

 

[calguy]

It's starting to get interesting... No more Trip Anywhere, and in the last few days I've noticed more AC product like Duncan Sheik. Is the Wave moving closer to AC and further away from Sooth Jazz?

 

[calguy]

I was planning to do a thread like this on KLOS and KSWD and a few others, however there seems to be a lack of interest so lets try to finish this one first.

KOST vs the Wave. Overall KOST is in better shape ratings wise and they're playing the hits. I just finished listening to them on a drive to the market and I have to say that with KOST, there is no "there" there. It sounds super generic. The audio is distorted and the jocks, well, bland is the only word I can come up with. What in the world were they thinking? Compared to a few years ago when Karen Carson was in midday and Brian Simmons was in the afternoon, KOST now sounds kind of flat. The Wave on the other hand sounds very smooth for lack of a better word. The music is good for what it is, but unless they add more AC product, they'll continue to dwell below KOST. Where they shine is the staff. They are all excellent. The drawback here could be that it's all ladies in the regular shifts. The only male voices are found on the weekends, and when those guys fill-in during the week. They have a very good weekend staff. A few could easily go full-time. This is where KOST lags behind. They have Ted Ziegenbush who is okay, but the female talks so fast it's hard to comprehend at times. The imaging isn't bad on the Wave, but the primary voice is a bit of a puke. I remember him from when he did the same job for KBIG. KOST uses a female. She's okay, but doesn't stand out. Again, generic is the best term. Morning shows. Big difference here. The Wave has a very capable talent, but she's alone now, so it's a more music approach. KOST has mark & Kristen. Mark is, well Mark. Loud, sometimes over the top and in need of some over site at times. His partner, well, like the afternoon show, they should never have made a change. She just annoys me. Jingles... KOST uses JAM and although an excellent company, the latest series isn't quite up to what KOST used to display. The Wave uses the same custom jingles that they've been using for years. They're good, but may be a little long in the tooth.

So, any opinions?