Then and Now:

[Radio_bored-Op]

Find this interesting:

im smack dab in the middle, (age 38) however
one thing has remained constant on the radio dial

when u [personally] are young, as DJ Jazzy Jeff/Fresh Prince sang:
"Parents just don't understand"

and when you become "grandfathered" into your golden years:
You will tell "kids" today it was better when they were young,

Well, after growing up -30 years ago and
listening to the decades(on xm) it pretty much "sounds" the same to me...


Guess the sign was right when I read it as a teenager,
"kid: move out while you still know everything"
(and laugh at it when I am an adult)

>Im sorry, have JUST reeeeely noticed lately that
the "old folks" (noo offensive guys & gals) are
not feelin the top40 -no surprise there - and the
kids today are pushin harder than ever, to
swear by the artists they have invested sooo deep into <

 

[chas108]

Popular Music is rarely critically appreciated in its time.

I learned that in my teens in 1974. A Billboard article bemoaned the state of current Top 40 and how nobody would remember such disposable music, and the 60's was better, blah, blah, blah.

Funny how much of the music being bemoaned at the time is now staple for Oldies and Classic Rock formats.

Rolling Stone is legendary for taking the better part of a decade to "get" Led Zeppelin.

Who were they into?

Crosby, Stills & Nash (& Young). To Rolling Stone, CS&N/CSN&Y walked on water. I've always been a fan...but what made them so superior to, say, Chicago? Or the Stones, or Blood, Sweat & Tears, or...well you get the picture.

Anyway I started to take the criticism of current Pop Music with a grain of salt. What sucks this year...may well be in a Top 100 all-time list in a decade or two.

--------------------------

Back in my 30's...I transitioned from being a Pop to Country radio personality (where I have proudly - and thankfully - remained to this very day). It was 1989. The imagination and diversity of Country Music was Nashville's equivalent of listening to 'KB circa 1971. I paid less and less attention to Top 40 until I was paying virtually no attention at all. I figured I was growing older and my tastes were changing because I didn't like what I was hearing when occasionally exposed to Top 40.

But at the beginning of 1995, I happened across VH1 and there was Des'ree singing "You Gotta Be", R.E.M.'s "Bang & Blame" and Hootie & The Blowfish's "Hold My Hand".

Wait a minute...I thought all African-American musicians had gone R&B/Rap? (Yes, I'd missed Living Colour)

Shades of Prince & The Revolution! Shades of the 60's!

And just like that, I was following the Pop Top 40 again, and continued keeping an ear on it to the present. And I learned what Grunge was all about...why Kurt Cobain's death mattered...and why do certain tracks on Nevermind remind me of the Beatles, anyway? It doesn't sound like the Beatles...but I later learned Nirvana was heavily influenced by the Fab Four. "Something In The Way" was Cobain's trying to channel John Lennon.

So I spent part of 1995 discovering what I'd missed between 1990-1994...and I came to understand my tastes hadn't really changed. But the music sure had - multiple times. And excepting Grunge and Alternative...I didn't like it. Light Pop...Light Rap...Light Metal (pre-Grunge)...too lightweight for my tastes. Once the 1992-99 (Grunge to Pop Alternative) era kicked in, much of that music reminded me of the '60's and early '70's. I figure one day that decade will find the redemption it deserves but it has yet to completely happen the way Disco and Hair Bands have found their redemption.

And if there was ever one style of music I thought was d-e-a-d and deservedly gone, never ever to return...Disco was it.

Yet...

Donna Summer's death made me revisit the era and I discovered my issue was not individual songs - but the oversaturation of the genre ('KB played Disco songs by Tanya Tucker and even Dolly Parton!) combined with a heavy dose of the "Disco is the new Pop Music and Rock is dead!" attitude...and it's a wonder Steve Dahl's Disco Demolition wasn't more visceral than it was. But it was the first time in the Rock era that one legitimate Pop musical style drew battle lines against another.

Before this, AOR's playing Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye and even the Bee Gees weren't uncommon.

It's a shame it turned out the way it did because listening to Donna Summer's work now reveals a great diversity...and a true pioneer. I was so burned out on Disco back in the day that I couldn't appreciate until much later how well Bad Girls had integrated Rock elements into Disco music. (Unlike the Stones' "Miss You", a Rock song with a Disco beat)

Bottom line here is...the end of the 70's and the early 90's (also 2/3/59-2/9/64) are recognized as doldrum periods for Top 40, so and shouldn't be confused with how our individual tastes may evolve as we age.

-------------------------------------------

All that said...the adage in the book of Ecclesiastes has never held so true...There Is Nothing New Under The Sun.

So no surprise to read your assessment that it sounds pretty much the same across the decades. Some of it may be the way you perceive it as you get older...but I think most of it is the fact that much of today's Turbo Pop taps previous decades of musical styles. Some of it channels directly back to a previous time ("Moves Like Jagger", anyone?), for others, it's nuance...maybe a lyric here or an arrangement there. I think this is part of the appeal of Adele.

The big difference today is that Mainstream Rock, fresh out of fresh ideas, has run its course. Other current variations of Rock have their loyal albeit small followings amongst the backwaters of Pop Culture where Jazz and Classical have resided for decades. There will be some great music made in these backwaters - but mainstream crossover will be limited and sporadic. Interest in Classic Rock remains high...even younger people seem to have their faves. Many of today's Country artists are making new music that sounds like Classic Rock with a twang. Eric Church's "Homeboy" is the most blatant example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx-dUsh6OT8

The 60's with its musical diversity were sheer magic. But IMO there's some great stuff happening today. It's different...yet it's the same.

Sorry such a long rambling reply...

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

That surely wasn't a PPM post, Chas, but it sure did make for very good reading. As to Eric Church, so much of Country today seems influenced by 70s and early 80s Southern Rock that was a staple of successful AOR formats. The Eric Church mega-hit to which you referred is a potent song. Church is a tremendous talent. But some might see the video as being overdone, almost pandering to an anti-urban, "nothing good comes from living in the city" mindset. That's not my interpretation, but I can understand somebody seeing it that way. Maybe Church was being autobiographical. Nashville, I've read, can be a pretty harsh little party town. All that aside, Country just keeps producing great music that captivates and attracts listeners across all demographics.

As to CHR songs that might be benchmarks in years to come, there are quite a few, in my estimation. CHR gets a bad rap, mostly from upper demo people who seem to have forgotten what it meant to be lit up by new music in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Bruno Mars is one of today CHR standard bearers who is likely to stand the test of time. He's the total package, writing, singing, producing, choreographing and expertly playing a number of instruments. He also maintains a sense of appreciating the players and music that came before him. And his 2012 Grammy performance was killer.

Regarding Rolling Stone magazine. I don't know that RS was dismissive of Led Zeppelin, but it went through phases, from being cutting edge to at times seeming to be a parody of itself. Some truly outstanding writers, designers, photographers and artists who, depending upon their state of mind, who they hung out with and what they read and ingested, were part of RS. They were equally brilliant or too hip for the room. One of my favorite routines was listening to the people with whom I worked; jocks, musicians and those who were immersed in the music, rip the Rolling Stone writers. Everybody, from the writers to the readers, had an opinion. Kind of like this board, eh?

As to your point about re-discovering music, it seems I've rediscovered Oldies, particularly the 60s power pop that some of us forgot, grew out of or away from or dismissed. How foolish. Lately, Leon Russell's arrangements and backing of Gary Lewis & the Playboys (particularly 'This Diamond Ring') along with the Hollies, Rolling Stones, Tom Jones, Aretha, Birds, Peter & Gordon, Del Shannon, Beach Boys, Elvis and Beatles have been in 'A' Rotation on my personal music devices. That's not a bad body of work to rediscover. I'd submit that plenty of people, artists, musicians, radio people and listeners alike go through the rediscovery phase as part of the circadian rhythm of life. It's when we get immovably stuck in one genre that we seem to develop problems.

 

[heydaybegone]

I did my nightly book reading on this thread. ;D

Upon reaching the end of text from JPB..I realized I've never read his signature line :

Opinions and posts subsequent to and/or referring to this post may be incorrect and do not necessarily represent the opinion of this writer. Not responsible for statements made by other posters.

I like it!!!

HDBG

A little levity folks, during intermission..as there may or may not be more coming to this thread! LOL

 

[SirRoxalot]

Just when you think rock is dead, people like the Black Keys and Dave Grohl resurrect it, and a new generation discovers the roots of rock music. I'm amazed at the number of 18-30s that listen to Classic Rock. I find that to be a good sign, but that's my generation speaking.

 

[chas108]

A few years ago we were wondering on this board about the expiration date for Classic Rock.

Now it seems to be outliving Mainstream Rock, and I too see a lot of interest among younger people...many of whom come to Country for new music with that Classic Rock sound.

While I admittedly can't name any titles by the Black Keys, I always have been and remain a Foos fan. When I say rock is dead...I mean as a cultural force...the way we remember it even back when Nickelback was on its 2006-2007 roll...or Green Day's American Idiot was pumping out hit after hit seven years ago...and so much more in the 90's, 80's and before.

For example...was it just us...or did it seem like everybody knew it when REO was on its Hi-Infidelity roll 31 years ago?

Heading to the cultural backwater will probably allow for greater experimentation, a higher quality of music and possibly even a mini-renaissance, the way jazz did circa 1960-62...("Take Five", "Stranger On The Shore", Alley Cat").

CHR gets a bad rap, mostly from upper demo people who seem to have forgotten what it meant to be lit up by new music in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Bruno Mars is one of today CHR standard bearers who is likely to stand the test of time. He's the total package, writing, singing, producing, choreographing and expertly playing a number of instruments. He also maintains a sense of appreciating the players and music that came before him. And his 2012 Grammy performance was killer.

Bruno's the real deal. So is Katy Perry IMHO. Starting your career the way she did with "I Kissed A Girl" is a double-edged sword. History is replete with those who could never overcome that semi-risque-novelty-edgy debut. The follow-up hits were just that..."Hot 'N Cold" and "Waking Up In Vegas" wouldn't have been strong enough to establish a career on their own.

But the hits from the second album Teenage Dream made me a fan. Particularly "Firework" and "Last Friday Night".

We're all older here...and we know how time passes more quickly as we age. So it's easy to think of any current music as a "passing fad" no one will remember in 20 years. We think of the long and storied careers of the artists we loved as young'uns...but consider, for example, the Monkees. All their success took place over a period of less than two years. Two years "seems like a mighty long time (sh-bop, sh-bop)" when you're 9, or 14 or even 21.

The space between "Little Deuce Coupe" and "Good Vibrations" seems like two eternities to me...but it was actually just over 4 years. June '62-October '66.

I DJ a local charity Car Show every August, and I usually go into my Oldies phase a month or two before...so this being mid-June it's about time to go back thru my .wavs and pull out some stuff to revisit. Go in search of some other seemingly impossible to find tunes on CD...like Crispian St. Peters' "The Pied Piper", original single mix with the drums mixed foreground and the cold end with the piccolo.

As to your point about re-discovering music, it seems I've rediscovered Oldies, particularly the 60s power pop that some of us forgot, grew out of or away from or dismissed. How foolish. Lately, Leon Russell's arrangements and backing of Gary Lewis & the Playboys (particularly 'This Diamond Ring') along with the Hollies, Rolling Stones, Tom Jones, Aretha, Birds, Peter & Gordon, Del Shannon, Beach Boys, Elvis and Beatles have been in 'A' Rotation on my personal music devices. That's not a bad body of work to rediscover. I'd submit that plenty of people, artists, musicians, radio people and listeners alike go through the rediscovery phase as part of the circadian rhythm of life. It's when we get immovably stuck in one genre that we seem to develop problems.

Amen, JPB. My wife and I refuse to get stuck. And the body of work you reference is what made today's Power Pop possible. The continuum just seems obvious.

 

[Radio_bored-Op]

Yes while it may have only been
(in real time) "two years"

Perspective, reputation and emotions
carry more weight than the charts...
Pick anything:

Wrestling, for example,
"Hulk Hogan" ( may still be wrestling),but
heyday Hulkster, the Rock does one or two events,
and as far as stone cold, (okay, etc etc)
have been long gone, and yet they still have
a position in the public eye as possibly still at it.
(now the die hard fans will know they are out) and
like pop music will know all the names,storylines,etc
but the big names outlast their time put in -

Athletes, same thing, Jim Kelly played his last game
(?)in 1996 [subject to verification] and his
legacy still holds dear as we all long for another
winning team.

Same w/ television shows, pick....any one of them
the ACTUAL show may have been on say
105 episodes, with the POWER of Re Runs,
on some respects, is timeless.. and that ties in
w/ radio: thanks to the programming of CHR's
(when the music was current) and the embrace
of a "welcome back format" ( oldies, classic hits, jack,
all 80s, etc) it never goes away. and the original song,
or artist may have that "first kiss" moment for you
or the first song you heard when ________
as time passes, as you it over and over, you will forget about it

.... then, hear the song, and all it takes is hearing
a song, from 1989 played at ceremony
(wedding or funeral) and the
song has a new found meaning, and
is redefined in 2012...

this doesn't even take into accounts of sampling,
proper sampling, sincere remakes/covers, and
being re-released (great, or not so greatest hits)
and soundtrack/remix or anniversary albums...

guess it is true:
of the MILLIONS, maybe BILLIONS of songs "out there"
people are content w/ the 225 personal ipod playlist(*)
(*) while the ipod may hold 4500+songs, the history
shows the user plays the same 150-200 "all time favorites"

which is a curious circle of irony:
people often complain of the rep.rep.rep.r-r-rrepeatition of the same
stuff on the radio, yet they are leading by example - the only
difference is their personal playlist would support programming
a format for success..hence, bringing us back to the
personal/radio players...which cater to the user who wants
"something different"

 

[umtrr-author]

My iDevice has over 9000 songs and counting...

Interestingly, my 12 year old is quite the unhappy pre-teen when I comment favorably on a current song that she also likes. I'm not supposed to 'get' Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, et al. I bought the song "A Thousand Years" by Christina Perri before she knew about it. (Yes, I still do buy music.)

This is marked contrast to my father, who pretty much disapproved of everything that I liked, even though I tolerated most of and enjoyed some of his record collection. (Which goes back to when the word "album" referred to a collection of 7 inch discs in a common sleeve.)

I can't say that I'm more up on Today's Hits than Yesterday's Favorites, but I have been getting more interested in pop songs released in, say, the last five years or so and a few are on heavy rotation right now. "Good Life" by OneRepublic topping the personal chart as we speak.

And I do keep up with jazz and blues more than I do pop, since a certain North Coast station introduces me to new songs on a regular basis. By the way, Lee, if you're out there, let me return the favor with this take on "Just The Two of Us":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY-ycsBd-x8

The vocalist is a childhood friend of my wife, by the way, which is how I found out about the song. (Well, through Facebook, actually.) I don't think this song is available in the USA, at least not through the usual places.

 

[chas108]

Watching "British Pop" on the local PBS station last night...a lot of recent Pop would have fit right in. With Mainstream Rock relegated to the backwaters, the connection between then and now just sounds obvious.

 

[John C]

I agree with a lot already said here. Like Chas, I grew up listening to KB and by around 1990 had stopped listening to "modern music", preferring either oldies or classic rock. As luck would have it I started working at a college in 1994 and began to listen to "college music" on a daily basis. Low and behold I grew to like a lot of the music that I had no use for a few years earlier. I started to respect Nirvana and the whole grunge scene. Almost 18 years later I still listen to the "latest" music. I also agree with Rox about Dave Grohl. IMHO the Foo Fighters are 2nd in my book to Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band as far as the best live rock acts touring right now. Neither Dave nor Bruce ever takes a night off and I've never walked out of either concert with nothing but respect for both. Maybe I've wandered a little off track with this post, maybe not.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

Then: (early to mid 1960's) Everybody I knew listened to KB the adults and the kids, with the exception of my uncle who listened to the ball games on WGR and my aunt who listened to WEBR. Even they would listen to KB on occasion.

In the hood, the kids and the adults listened to KB. In those days they played whatever hit the top 40 chart, Sinatra, Sammy Davis, Supremes, Beatles, Marty Robbins, etc.

Now: Even my 20 year old daughter can't take the local top 40 stations for long. They are too Rap heavy most of the time.

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

REPLY TO Chas 108 (Reply #1): Your commentary was so lengthy (though welcome) that I felt a fresh page would be better suited for responding than the "Qoute" option.

You are living proof that wisdom comes with age. I confess to being among those who still honor '60s rock as the best ever. But, like your testimony appears to say, I too have become more respectful of, and less peripherally challenged about, some of the more modern musical tastes and the acts performing them, save for (c)rap.

My own less-than-spectacular radio career morphed much like yours did, from rock or pop to country, and C/W is where it finished. My thoughts back then seemed to say, "Wow, what took me so long to discover Country? This stuff is great...!" It was a moment later captured by Allan Jackson's Gone Country.

Then I married and had children. My kids would grow up under the glaring banners of Michael Jackson, Prince and other '80s powerhouse performers. In the 90's, they were captivated by "grunge". You can imagine the ensuing conversations with my kids, where I would focus on the diametric differences between their music and mine. My oldest though, an inquisitive genius-under-construction whose passion was to connect with his dad, would draw parallels he saw (and I missed) between those two generations of music. The most memorable: '90s grunge and the Neil Young music of the '70s. I admit I didn't understand this coupling. Still, touched by Jr's appetite to bond, I agreed.

Wisdom comes from experience, and experience comes with age. I bristle at the sounds of much of today's musical fare, but I respect the talent playing in the band. For such inspiration, I thank wisdom, age, and last but not least, my children.

 

[chas108]

Did I ever mention the five-page memo I wrote about brevity?

Sorry...but I'm here all week. Next week too.

jfrancis, thanks for the kind words. One thing I'll add regarding Country...there was a lot of disposable, forgettable music in the format before Randy Travis...

A few titles were made by icons but most of it by artists who were forgotten as quickly as their songs were forgotten. When discussion of that era comes up I tell people..."if you can remember it, it most likely wasn't part of the problem". I'm talking about the poorly produced watered down lite-pop that passed for Country between the end of the Urban Cowboy era and the second release of "On The Other Hand" in 1986...after which, acts like Holly Dunn, The O'Kanes, Ricky Van Shelton and Dwight Yoakam provided a rallying point for The Judds, Ricky Skaggs, George Strait, Reba et.al. Hank Jr. and the outlaws who'd been challenging the Nashville hierarchy since the 70's added their flavor to the ever-more-delicious music mix coming from Nashville at the time.

Even those who did Pop Country with excellence...Ronnie Milsap, Alabama et. al...came back with more traditional fare. And the Pop-leaning acts who came to prominence at this time - like K.T. Oslin, Restless Heart and Mary Chapin Carpenter, did so with meatier arrangements and meaningful lyrics.

The foundation was laid for "Today's Country", and in time, people discovered it and flocked to it.

John C, not off track at all. But my rose-colored glasses would like to have seen Foo Fighters gain the Pop Culture status of a Springsteen. But it's a different era now...and in my book, Grohl's a hero either way.

 

[John C]

John C, not off track at all. But my rose-colored glasses would like to have seen Foo Fighters gain the Pop Culture status of a Springsteen. But it's a different era now...and in my book, Grohl's a hero either way.

Grohl really seems to "get it". When he plays with other artists or just talks about them, you can feel the respect. When the Foos played with John Paul Jones and Jimmy Page on their Wembley concert DVD you could see how much it meant to Dave. I would hope he someday is in the R & R HOF, perhaps with both Nirvana and the Foo Fighters. Maybe, just maybe, by then the E Street Band will also be inducted.