• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

These are the songs you hear in church

WHAT church? :eek:

Not MY church!

There's a CD set being sold on TV which is one step beyond Contemporary Christian. It's as if Contemporary Christian, the radio format, is AC and this "music" (forgive my blasphemy, Ludwig, Amadeus, Felix and Johann Sebastian, but I lack the vocabulary skills to deal with this situation) is like top 40.

The kids love it, and amazingly, they show a prent who likes it too.

They seem to be taking a lot for granted.

How many churches actually have even a special service where these songs are played? Don't most churches still have the songs that are one, two, three hundred years old or, at worst, a few more contemporary-sounding songs that sound innocuous enough when only the organ or piano is used?

On the subject of CD sets being sold on TV, there is one with Christian music that sounds just right for me. I don't buy music that way ...
 
Uh, no, there are plenty of churches that have ditched the organ and the three hunded year old hymns for the praise band, with drums, guitars, and everything, either having a choice of contemporary or traditional services or only contemporary services.

Whether I'd trust the TV commercials idea of CCM I don't know. I remember a few years ago a commercial saying "contemporary Christian Music. Soothing, relaxing..." and the songs were actually standards like "Softly and Gently".
 
Like I have witnessed in my years of involvement with CCM and the radio side.... I am from a rural evangelical group that shunned openly to 90% of the stuff called CCM when it first came out.. They opened up to it as many old hardlined Southern Gospel groups added instruments to their tours and did remakes of popular Christian AC tunage... Then we came along at Way-Fm in 1987 and we were the rad-pack.. As we became supported by the 'suspect' adults, we were accepted and our music and the praise side of our music became staples of the youth group services..... Then came along "True Love Waits"...It opened the door to the mainstream sound of Christian CHR and AC... Young adults were quick to see validity and so did the under 50 pastors (and preists) and thus the root was in the door of the mainstream of worship.. Come the turn of the century and a wave of POWER PRAISE came to be.. From Don Moen and to the urban praise leaders, old hymns and new hymns of praise came out of the new form of worship and made it to Christian radio (a reverse trend).....Now you're hearing first generation Christian 'pop' recycle with old Larry Norman, Randy Stonehill and artists of their era..... Even in about 40% of the rural Churches, some form of the above has made it into the worship (if not over 50%)..... When I went to Way-Fm to start that whole new FM CHR thing, many of my Dad's peer Pastors told him; "I would grow up and get into legitimate ministry someday!... I just had to get the radical side out of me..." Six years later in 1993, they were asking me when we could get a Way-Fm translator into their town..."These kids and our younger couples need it!" Hey? My Pastor in Fort Myers was a Bob Jones graduate who couldn't listen to us for more than ten minutes at a time.. But, by the sixth month of being on the air, he was convinced our accountability and effort to raise funds from past a persons tithe, was a legit thing! He always offered his blessing and sanctuary for concerts and outreach (along with our Assembly of God Pastor a mile and a half down the road).... TR was smart.. We used his thought on influence to new people who became exposed to our genre'... "Walk and Speak SOFTLY and carry a big stick (The Word, The Sword, etc.).... Our GMA buddies thought AC would stick but gave us 'six months, tops' for us being on the air as Christian CHR... Guess what?? As of October 10th, 2009, WAYJ in Fort Myers will be 21 years Christian CHR and 'going strong'..... Martin Luther got in trouble more for his hymns sung in worship, more than that nice note nailed to the door at Whittenburg! That was 'straw that broke the camel's back..... ;)
 
vchimpanzee said:
WHAT church? :eek:

Not MY church!

There's a CD set being sold on TV which is one step beyond Contemporary Christian. It's as if Contemporary Christian, the radio format, is AC and this "music" (forgive my blasphemy, Ludwig, Amadeus, Felix and Johann Sebastian, but I lack the vocabulary skills to deal with this situation) is like top 40.

The kids love it, and amazingly, they show a prent who likes it too.

They seem to be taking a lot for granted.

How many churches actually have even a special service where these songs are played? Don't most churches still have the songs that are one, two, three hundred years old or, at worst, a few more contemporary-sounding songs that sound innocuous enough when only the organ or piano is used?

I'd be really careful trying to squeeze God into a small box of your own musical and worship preferences. He - has a way of breaking out of such small boxes and moving mightily in new directions. The goal? To reach as many lost people as possible. Your way - may not be capable of reaching everybody. Would you want to be accountable for souls NOT reached because you would have God only do things "your way"? I think not!

CCM is here to stay, God is using it mightily to reach the lost. If you have a problem with that - take it up with Him.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
I'd be really careful trying to squeeze God into a small box of your own musical and worship preferences. He - has a way of breaking out of such small boxes and moving mightily in new directions. The goal? To reach as many lost people as possible. Your way - may not be capable of reaching everybody. Would you want to be accountable for souls NOT reached because you would have God only do things "your way"? I think not!

CCM is here to stay, God is using it mightily to reach the lost. If you have a problem with that - take it up with Him.

Mankind has for ages looked for indications of proper worship style and proper mission methodology. Can I use a word that some will find offensive? Worship style and mission methodology continuously go through an evolution. And people who study the history and development of our faith beginning in the Old Testament era engage in debates over which developments were simply human preferences and which developments were truly inspired.

Maybe 500 years from now there will be interesting historical observations about church music of our era. Looking back over the last 500 years I don't see church historians giving a whole lot of print to church music. Churches have split, churches have merged. There have been times when emotional worship style was prominent, there have been times when the building of schools and academic advances in theological thinking were prominent.

Every church group runs the risk of trying to squeeze God into their little box. The theological academic thinkers run that risk. The "Social Gospel" people run that risk. Those who practice a highly emotional faith experience including Pentecostal experiences run that risk. Building church on a foundation of what is extremely popular music also runs that risk.

Tell the folks that run Radio-Info to keep the computers well tuned. Maybe 200, 300 or 500 years from now we can come back and laugh at this whole conversation. In the meantime some of us will continue to maintain our libraries of music of the dead Germans. ;D
 
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
Every church group runs the risk of trying to squeeze God into their little box. The theological academic thinkers run that risk. The "Social Gospel" people run that risk. Those who practice a highly emotional faith experience including Pentecostal experiences run that risk. Building church on a foundation of what is extremely popular music also runs that risk.

You see, though, based on my musical preferences, you have attempted to deduce my entire theology. To put me in a little box. You are 100% wrong, by the way - I shun the emotionalism of Charismatic / Pentacostal churches for plain, ordinary, preaching of the word.

Unlike you, I am grateful for all styles for all people. You like dead Germans - I'm glad there is a church out there for you. Somebody else likes one of the myriad flavors of gospel, fine, there are churches out there. Same with no musical instruments, etc. Something for everybody - all styles that are necessary to reach people. You don't like a church because it doesn't fit your style, go down the street to one that does. No problem. As long as the preaching is on track and you draw closer to the Lord. I won't attend your church, you won't attend mine, but lots of folks will agree with both of us and form your congregation and mine.

Radio, though, is a different story. Limited number of frequencies. Not analogous to the street corner situation where there can be hundreds of styles with every variety and sub-variety of music. Which will survive? Those that play to the largest possible audience. They will get the donations or advertisers, unless somebody pays enough to keep an unpopular format going. But beware when they die ---- Sooo - the point? CCM is popular. High ratings = more potential salvations. So a wise PD will program CCM if they want to stay in business. Perhaps in some rural areas a little country gospel format might get donations from Mr. Haney or Sam Drucker and make a go of it. I don't see it having mass appeal among city dwellers. But if I'm wrong and the audience is there, so much the better. More people reached, that's all any of us should care about.
 
Yes, the proper line of conversation here would be about 'Programming of radio stations that feature content that is religious and/or Contemporary Christian".

And the logical conversation will revolve around what is POPULAR, what draws sizable audience, what draws loyal audience. Logical conversation will also revolve around management techniques that build a strong and viable station.

Where conversation goes nut-so once in a while is when we cease talking about what is good radio, and we try to venture into what Christianity would call "Good Stewardship". There is probably another venue, another Internet discussion space where that should take place. Those conversations are about managing and programming the CHURCH. Here we are conversing about managing and programming RADIO STATIONS. There is a distinct difference.
 
I am reminded of a story about a monestery in which the monks decided to bring in professional musicians and singers after years of their own a cappella singing out of tune. The sound was glorious the music perfect. After the festive day was over God came to the monks and asked where they were that day, as He had missed them. They asked Him whether He heard the beautiful music that they brought in for Him. God said He preferred their worship.

But as for Beethoven, Bach, et al from the classical crowd, consider that if the genre flies and brings people to Christ, that is the business side of worship. Will you tell everyone who listens to it not to buy what is being advertised?
 
Cowboy.. That inspires me! I will pitch the name "Music Of Dead Germans" or "MODG" for some new Christian Rock Alternative Group! Mike Roe with the "77's" might like that for one of his off shoots in that genre'..... ::)
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
Radio, though, is a different story. Limited number of frequencies. Not analogous to the street corner situation where there can be hundreds of styles with every variety and sub-variety of music. Which will survive? Those that play to the largest possible audience. They will get the donations or advertisers, unless somebody pays enough to keep an unpopular format going. But beware when they die ---- Sooo - the point? CCM is popular. High ratings = more potential salvations. So a wise PD will program CCM if they want to stay in business. Perhaps in some rural areas a little country gospel format might get donations from Mr. Haney or Sam Drucker and make a go of it. I don't see it having mass appeal among city dwellers. But if I'm wrong and the audience is there, so much the better. More people reached, that's all any of us should care about.
I was really referring to the fact that the people who run these commercials seem to be assuming the majority go to churches like that.

It's not even the same music that is on Contemporary Christian Radio.

For example, WMIT in Black Mountain, N.C., Billy Graham's station. It's definitely not my taste. But it would compare to AC in secular radio. They have an HD channel called The Edge. My guess is that The Edge sounds like the music in the commercial, which is more like CHR in secular radio.

Most Contemporary Christian stations sound like WMIT. I've seen discussions on this site about the addition of a second station which was apparently more like the commercial. People thought the existing station was too conservative.

As for me, I'll stick with WMUU and BBN for Christian radio, though my preference is secular.

And my church mostly has the old hymns written by Germans, or the "Old" songs that aren't really that old which make us think of camp meeting. Our organist/choir director is a college music professor and very conservative, though she is getting old, and the choir is shrinking, and with the musical taste some of these young people have, I worry about the future. Ironically, we've made an effort to attract students from that college, although another area church had a contemporary service which they gave up because of low attendance. The pastor there is more open to such music, but his members may be set in their ways like so many of ours.

If we have more contemporary songs, they're probably from the "Praise and Worship" genre, which is actually a radio format all its own, and they're mostly done with organ or piano. Sometimes soloists sing along with tapes. Personally, I try not to be at church if I have advance warning of this. I like to visit relatives. Not that their church music is better, but I have the incentive of visiting afterward. At one aunt's church, it's so full I just go in the nursery and there's a speaker in there where I can control the volume. It's usually unoccupied anyway. If I didn't know in time and someone is singing with one of those tapes, an ideal time to sneak out is when people are greeting each other before the prayer. I can sneak back in during the offering. I was opposed to the church adding a better sound system because it's not just the tapes, but also the singers, that are TOO LOUD over speakers.

Getting back to visiting relatives, my father and I visited one aunt about 10 years ago. This may be the last time he and I visited her church together. My father and I went to Sunday School and I kept hearing this loud rock music coming from somewhere. When I entered the sanctuary, there were the instruments making all the noise. I found out in time that it wasn't a contemporary service during Sunday School. This was for the REGULAR SERVICE. How in the heck did old people put up with it? My aunt was 68 or 69. She and my father actually sat through the service. I walked around the nice quiet cemetery and the neighborhood around the church. Nice and relaxing.

I mentioned camp meeting. Maybe those who are posting here don't know what that is. I went to a church 25 years ago that pretty much called off services in August because everyone went to the camp meeting services. They're kind of like revivals, with the old-time music, similar to some of what Southern gospel radio plays, under a "brush arbor", not indoors. This church had more conservative music than some, and I liked it. There was a young people's choir which I guess was a little more on the contemporary side.

10 years ago I went back to that church and the choir members from the old days were pretty much gone, and the choir at that time was singing with a synthesizer. They decided not to replace the organ, and a lot of young people were moving into the area. The church was really going after them. I never would have believed it.

I'm reminded that the church I went to 30 years ago lost its choir director because she was too interested in the contemporary style of worship, and I think I'm correct the differences in attitude ended her marriage. I just thought she was strange. She and one of the church's families who had been so active took off for one of these contemporary style churches. Her husband was my last Sunday School teacher before we moved.

Another church I went to, 20 years ago, was really conservative and attendance had fallen off because it was in the inner city. A new church began and the members helped that church get started. Then they wanted to merge with that church. They have, and they have "blended" worship at 11, contemporary worship at 10 and traditional worship at 8:30. Some of the old set-in-their-ways types didn't go along. That happened after my parents moved to where I live now because my grandparents were getting old. It's their church I go to now.
 
My only feeling is today's young generation would not attend a church like that (hymns etc...) thus a lot of churches doing the modern worship with drums, etc.. I hae nothing against hymns, southern gospel, etc.. but its just not my taste. I know my churches main services are modern but their more along the lines of "AC" (we sing songs from Jeremy Riddle, Matt Redman, Chris Tomlin etc..) The night service which is geared towards 20 somethings has drums and is more edgey... We still sing some of the songs from the artists mentioned above but usually with a little more edge.. for instance last night one of the songs we sang was Agnus Dei. I honestly think if churches are to continue to see growth and forge ahead in the future they will have to adapt to the culture to continue to drawl people in.
 
Music is a very personal form of expression. That is why this is such a divisive issue. I've been to churches and I'm not talking some ultra conservative fundementalist type church, but a United Methodist church in a metro area where they have young people who have grown up in that church with it's Music of Dead Germans and that is what THEY are used to and are not comfortable with attending a praise service at their church or any other church as it seems to "worldly" and not worship to them. On the other hand, I've been to churches with 80 year olds who truly are blessed with a praise and worship service.

Two churches I've been to only play praise music from the year 2000 on, nothing from the 20th century, as both are a seeker churches where one is geared towards the 18-30 year olds and the other is geared for the 18-25 year olds. Another church plays praise music ranging from 1966 to today. They have a broader mix of age groups there.

Sometimes the style of the service might make a difference. I go to a Lutheran church and the Lutheran Mass is a very beautiful service with Gregorian Chanting, with Old Testament, a chanted Psalm, an Epistle reading, and the Gospel, along with the reverence of the Eucharist at Holy Communion. We use hymns. As much as I like and play and have led praise bands at other churches, it would somehow seem out of place to have a praise band wailing away at this Mass.

Yet, on the other hand, there might be Lutheran churches out there ( I've not been to one so this is conjecture) that do have a praise band at their Mass and if it lifts their congregation to the heights of worship and brings folks to Christ, great. That is the bottom line, we go and worship Our Lord.

The world likes to bash "The Church" by saying that 11am Sunday morning is the most segregated hour of the week, meaning that generally speaking blacks go to black churches and whites go to white churches. Of course, what the world is not saying is, there are some whites who do go to the so called "black churches" and some blacks who go to the so called "white churches". Once again, the style of worship and music is different from a "black church" that plays Urban Gospel music and a "Southern white church" that plays Country Gospel music, and the "praise church", and the "hymn oriented church". The Lutheran church I attend, whose Mass I described above, has both black and whites as members. Granted the white population is larger, but about 1/6 of the congregation is black.

The bottom line is, God made all of us and gave us the ability to be different meaning we can worship the Risen Christ in many ways. So search out the church that has good sound Biblical teaching and offers the music that expresses your heart for the Lord, go be involved, serve your community and be a part of bringing the Gospel message to the lost.

As far as radio goes, sure most of the Christian radio stations are going to target the young audience generally, as does the rest of the radio business. For those of us who can't find the type of Christian music we prefer on the radio, there is always, the internet and CD's.
 
As long as ones worship brings them closer to God and his presence and desire for our life then be it southern gospel, urban, rap, praise, rock, hymns is the right style for that person.
 
xmusicmatt said:
I honestly think if churches are to continue to see growth and forge ahead in the future they will have to adapt to the culture to continue to drawl people in.

You have described the issue which lies underneath all the squabbling about music in the church.

Those who go to church primarily because it is a good social outlet, or primarily because it is good entertainment, or primarily because it is an emotional high are accused of being those who say: The church must adapt to the culture.

Those who go to church primarily because they have strong doctrinal beliefs, or primarily because they have this need to be successful at evangelizing, or primarily because they want to protect the sanctity of how the Bible is taught are accused of being those who say: The church must NEVER adapt to the culture, it is our task to CHANGE the culture.

If you have never experienced a good old fashioned church fight where members have various positions between these two positions as well as some at the two extremes, you have trouble understanding what all the yelling and pushing over music in the church is all about.

Sometimes this really isn't about the music. Since most church people are not experts in theology and polity, they have to carry on the war on issues where they fell they are experts.... and that would be music, and the loudness there-of.
 
That's the point.. Do we 'adapt' or 'relate'.... A grey area of matter.... Martin Luther 'adapted' some bar tunes in order to 'relate' and it got him in loads of trouble... I have always keyed in on my methods as to question; "Am I relating to the culture JUST to relate and be HIP? Or, am I relating to the culture to be "RELEVANT" in my explanation of The Gospel????" My favorite contemporary worship in our area is a Missouri Synod Luthern Church on Sunday Evening! On the months with a fifth Sunday, the adult do the praise with older song and the youth dig it.. The other nights, two praise groups switch off (every other week) and the over 50's seem to enjoy it... When I was a kid, I did not like country....Now I kind of like it... Get the drift..??
 
skippertthomas said:
That's the point.. Do we 'adapt' or 'relate'.... A grey area of matter.... Martin Luther 'adapted' some bar tunes in order to 'relate' and it got him in loads of trouble... I have always keyed in on my methods as to question; "Am I relating to the culture JUST to relate and be HIP? Or, am I relating to the culture to be "RELEVANT" in my explanation of The Gospel????" My favorite contemporary worship in our area is a Missouri Synod Luthern Church on Sunday Evening! On the months with a fifth Sunday, the adult do the praise with older song and the youth dig it.. The other nights, two praise groups switch off (every other week) and the over 50's seem to enjoy it... When I was a kid, I did not like country....Now I kind of like it... Get the drift..??

I think some of these folks would make a mold of "acceptable" music, and force all believers into it. They try to relate musical style and Biblical integrity - if its got a beat, the preaching has to be wrong (or some tormented, twisted logic like that). As for me, I've been gracious and said if people want dead Germans, or southern gospel, or praise and worship, or Christian rock - go to a church with that style, tune in a station with that style, and worship in truth. I get the impression some folks wouldn't reciprocate in giving me that freedom if they were running things. I get a little angry when I hear the old, tired anti-CCM drill about if its got drums, the anapestic beat, more than 70 beats a minute, if every line doesn't say Jesus, if its fun - it can't be Christian. I just want to be left alone to honor God in my way, and let those folks do it in their way, I'll never burst in their church or station and tell them they are wrong, I expect the same respect from them. Sadly - it isn't forthcoming because they delight in getting on here and foisting praise and worship, dead Germans, or hymns as the only acceptable music for the church or Christian radio. And that is pathetic.
 
I think some of these folks would make a mold of "acceptable" music, and force all believers into it. They try to relate musical style and Biblical integrity - if its got a beat, the preaching has to be wrong (or some tormented, twisted logic like that). As for me, I've been gracious and said if people want dead Germans, or southern gospel, or praise and worship, or Christian rock - go to a church with that style, tune in a station with that style, and worship in truth. I get the impression some folks wouldn't reciprocate in giving me that freedom if they were running things. I get a little angry when I hear the old, tired anti-CCM drill about if its got drums, the anapestic beat, more than 70 beats a minute, if every line doesn't say Jesus, if its fun - it can't be Christian. I just want to be left alone to honor God in my way, and let those folks do it in their way, I'll never burst in their church or station and tell them they are wrong, I expect the same respect from them. Sadly - it isn't forthcoming because they delight in getting on here and foisting praise and worship, dead Germans, or hymns as the only acceptable music for the church or Christian radio. And that is pathetic.


What sets off the "older" crowd is they've been attending a church for their entire lives and that church decides that they, the older demo no longer matters as we've got to attract the young so we'll ditch the hymns and the older praise music for a playlist of only 20-30 praise songs written after 2000. Most older folks don't care if their church has a praise service as long as their service is left alone. So this should be an alert for churches, start a second or third service that is a praise service rather than forcing those who do like the traditional to have to have a praise service. As I said earlier, music is very personal, and you can motivate or greatly anger a person, in the secular world or the religious world by what music you play. These same battles go on in the work place too. I remember an older woman at work years ago who was greatly offended by the hard rock music that the rest of the people in that area wanted to play. She said she'd tolerate it if they played it quieter, but they weren't willing so she then filed a complaint and won, which required the radio to be turned off when she was in that room. So this isn't just a church issue. Generational differences don't mess well when it comes to music.
 
I'm willing to accept that some people don't like CCM and never will and believe they should worship God as they see fit. On the other hand those of us who prefer CCM don't always get that same courtesy. In my experience most of the battles over music has originated from the traditionalists that want to make music a divisive issue and refuse to accept CCM, and will even split churches over it.

I grew up in a Southern Baptist church that for the most part was and still is anti-CCM and was told that the CCM and Christian rock I was listening to was at least inferior or at the worst from the Devil. After getting married and moving over time I have moved on through another Baptist church that has separate contemporary and traditional worship services (The contemporary service has become the larger of the two), a Methodist church that has mostly traditional worship, but accepts some CCM, and finally to a Disciples of Christ church that has a good mix of both traditional and contemporary worship and accepts CCM.

I'll admit that sometimes CCM may be forced on some churches in the wrong way, and that perhaps the best way is to phase it in gradually and perhaps do separate contemporary and traditional services. I also believe that if a church has more than one Sunday morning worship service and has leadership that is not anti-CCM that one service should be contemporary if at all possible. But then in some churches sometimes no matter how they try to phase CCM in you have members or leaders who fight it and claim they'll never allow it in their church because of their biases against it. If CCM has been brought in in the correct way where the majority has accepted it and especially provisions have been made to allow for traditional worship as well, the people who are still against it need to either go along with the changes even though they may not like it, or move on somewhere else.

I've come to realize that not all churches should do contemporary worship, especially if the members are largely older. On the other hand, anyone who is visiting a church that is largely younger shouldn't get bent out of shape if the worship includes CCM. That also applies to youth events. Anyone who goes to a youth event needs to go knowing that it's going to be their kind of music, and not get bent out of shape over it. If they can't handle it they don't need to be there. To me they're showing their own lack of spiritual maturity.
 
There is a lack of spiritual maturity in a lot of places. That's the main problem in our world and our churches.

Music doesn't matter. Length of service doesn't matter. Layout of the church doesn't matter. Color scheme doesn't matter.
We get hung up on something that's not even half of the "worship time" and let it cloud our thinking for the rest of our "worship time" [168 hours a week].
If you want to worship God, you will worship God in a cave. If the music gets in your way, if the age of the people there gets in your way, if "I don't have the right clothes" or "they knew me when I was barhopping" gets in the way, then you wanted it to.

Too many people, even in churches, have the spiritually stunted "what does it do for me" mentality, and churches are trying too hard to feed those people. And those with the "what can I do for God" mentality get forgotten and slopped off to the side, even though they are the ones who carry the weight at every church I've heard of or been at.

I'm not saying this about anyone who's posted, I'm just saying all that in generalities, because the 12 posters here only represent a small portion of the 77% of America who thinks they are "Christian."
 
quadraphonic said:
There is a lack of spiritual maturity in a lot of places. That's the main problem in our world and our churches.

Music doesn't matter. Length of service doesn't matter. Layout of the church doesn't matter. Color scheme doesn't matter.
We get hung up on something that's not even half of the "worship time" and let it cloud our thinking for the rest of our "worship time" [168 hours a week].
If you want to worship God, you will worship God in a cave. If the music gets in your way, if the age of the people there gets in your way, if "I don't have the right clothes" or "they knew me when I was barhopping" gets in the way, then you wanted it to.

Too many people, even in churches, have the spiritually stunted "what does it do for me" mentality, and churches are trying too hard to feed those people. And those with the "what can I do for God" mentality get forgotten and slopped off to the side, even though they are the ones who carry the weight at every church I've heard of or been at.

I'm not saying this about anyone who's posted, I'm just saying all that in generalities, because the 12 posters here only represent a small portion of the 77% of America who thinks they are "Christian."

Organized religion gets in the way of Christianity.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom