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They’re turning off HD in Washington, DC

Savage said:
You also left out 730 and 1500. They also turned off HD. Along with a Bonneville FM and two Radio One FMs.

730 WXTR is an 8 kW daytimer (25 W at night) that was one of the first Red Zebra stations.
The "Bonneville FM," 107.7 WWWT, Warrington, VA, is a rim-shot repeater for 103.5 WTOP.
One of the "Radio One FMs," 104.1 WPRS, Waldorf, MD, only covers about half of the metro area. Bonneville sold it off after trying three different formats (CHR, Classical, and "George" [Jack's first cousin], in that order). Their original prospective buyer was Dan Snyder, who reportedly withdrew his offer after a Bonneville executive was quoted by the Post as saying that Synder was paying 50% more than the station was worth.

None of these would be considered a "major" DC station, or a showcase for IBOC.

I have no insight on the others.

- Jonathan
 
Savage said:
Oh, I see. The fact that five DC-area AM stations have turned off IBOC (along with two major FM signals) is GREAT news for HD Radio.

And that is the crux of the issue as I see it. Any station that has to shut down its IBOC equipment, for whatever reason other than routine maintenance, is a defeat for HD Radio. After all, what station owner would invest so heavily in a system that they know will have to be turned off? And it certainly isn't going to encourage analog only stations to install HD Radio if their seeing the system being shut down by stations around the country that have it.

If, as the RBR article postulates, the problem with the DC stations is economic (that is to say high license fees with little to no ROI) then it is within iBiquity's power to make adjustments for that.

Personally, I think iBiquity has been highly unrealistic in its expectations of what they think stations can afford (or are willing to pay) for the ability to broadcast in digital. The fact that radio revenue has been down so significantly this past year and is projected to be flat for '09 and that iBiquity has done nothing to address this issue shows how little in tune they are with the current realities of the radio business.

If they want HD Radio to grow then iBiquity and their partners need to make it financially easier and more attractive for stations to go digital.

C5
 
Carmine5 said:
And that is the crux of the issue as I see it. Any station that has to shut down its IBOC equipment, for whatever reason other than routine maintenance, is a defeat for HD Radio. After all, what station owner would invest so heavily in a system that they know will have to be turned off? And it certainly isn't going to encourage analog only stations to install HD Radio if their seeing the system being shut down by stations around the country that have it.

This particular case is a little unusual. Red Zebra made no investment in HD on 570/980/1260 - it inherited the system when it bought those stations from Clear Channel, and decided not to keep it. If I understand the Ibiquity license terms correctly, the license (which is a one-time-only deal, no ongoing annual fees for AM HD) passed from CC to Red Zebra as part of the sale of the stations, so there was no additional cost to Red Zebra to keep operating the system...it just wasn't part of their corporate plan, and so off it went. The same was true of Radio One and WPRS.

Personally, I think iBiquity has been highly unrealistic in its expectations of what they think stations can afford (or are willing to pay) for the ability to broadcast in digital. The fact that radio revenue has been down so significantly this past year and is projected to be flat for '09 and that iBiquity has done nothing to address this issue shows how little in tune they are with the current realities of the radio business.

If they want HD Radio to grow then iBiquity and their partners need to make it financially easier and more attractive for stations to go digital.

No argument there. I expect we'll see essentially zero new AM HD installs in 2009 (there may be a handful of stations whose big group owners licensed the technology in a healthier budget cycle and are just now putting it on, but that's it), and little in the way of new commercial FMs, either. But that's not the same thing as seeing massive numbers of existing installs, especially on FM, go silent. The ongoing operation of FM HD, while it produces little to no revenue for Ibiquity (a problem for them), also involves little to no additional cost at the station end, which means it won't likely be at the head of the list of things to cut come budget time.
 
The vast majority of Large and Medium market FMs are already HD. And it's damned expensive for small market stations. Which leaves little room for the kind of expansion seen over the last few years. Still I expect the few stations (in large and medium markets) not owned by the big groups to gradually add HD when it comes time to do a major upgrade. A fullpower FM I know plans to do this at next transmitter upgrade (but not until). It's a relatively minor expense at transmitter replacement time, but a major one if your X-mtr is only a few years old, and in perfect condition. Slowing growth (on the station side) sure as hell ain't the same thing as shrinkage!

New DTV installations have all but stopped...because EVERYBODY HAS ALREADY INSTALLED THE GEAR! It sure doesn't mean DTV is failing (though it sure has it's issues! Although picture and sound ARE phenomenal, I long for the kind of dx reception a good antenna, preamp, and rotor used to provide!)
 
This board isn't about DTV, but there is one notable difference between "HD" radio and HDTV... the improvement in picture quality on HDTV is dramatic and compelling; even SDTV is markedly superior to analog for most viewers on most stations. In my opinion, the same cannot be said for "HD" radio... the sound quality just isn't any better, and on AM it's actually worse in some respects.

That said, DTV is not without its problems as far as coverage is concerned. For example, it appears that I will be losing two network stations (CBS and NBC) at my lake house while gaining another (public television), which is not a bad trade off as far as I am concerned. I expect to see some improvement as stations put in low power SFR's to fill in coverage holes.

Hey, I wonder if it would be possible to use some of that DTV bandwidth to carry extra audio channels? Now that would be a cool way to provide true HD radio service without interfering with existing channels!
 
Audioguy, while analog FM stereo CAN sound quite good on the best tuners, most people don't own (and won't own) a Magnum Dynalab! HD at higher bitrates has distortion that's orders of magnitude better than analog FM stereo, wide-open highs that are far brighter and cleaner due to the lack of a pre-emphasis/de-emphasis curve, virtually unlimited stereo separation, and a background that's as much as 25db quieter than the quietest analog FM stereo. Given a well engineered station, like WDAV Davidson NC, the improved clarity of the digital signal (no multicasting on this one!) is startling! It's as if a veil is lifted during climactic orchestral passages. Every instrument in an orchestra can be heard with pinpoint precision just not possible with analog FM stereo. Brushed cymbals and muted trumpets have a glimmering sheen just not heard with analog FM stereo because the abundance of content above 10khz with these instruments is pushed WAY DOWN by the constraints of pre/de-emphasis.

Now I don't know what kind of music you listen to. If you listen to LOUD rock music that's already heavily processed, the "veiling" of analog FM stereo can actually make things sound "smoother", and more pleasant. IMHO rock/pop/country recordings have been WAY TOO BRIGHT for decades, and analog FM stereo can smooth over some of the edge. But if ACCURACY is what you're after, then you've gotta' know this "improved" tonal balance isn't anything like what's on the recording.

But perhaps the most dramatic thing about well engineered, high bitrate HD in comparison to analog FM stereo is when there's no music at all...the pauses between sentences when the announcer speaks, and the background goes DEAD QUIET! Even if you don't hear noise on your analog signal at normal volumes, it's striking when it's suddenly absent. It's like sitting for a few minutes in what you thought was a quiet room, when the air conditioner or furnace suddenly stops. You were even aware that it was running, but it's absence is striking...as is the new silence of the room. Just as the most important think in a video display is it's ability to reproduce black, because everything rises from, and is referenced to that black, the importance of an absolutely "black" (silent) background can't be over-emphasized...particularly with quiet acoustic music (and speech in a quiet studio). The first time I heard this effect (on WDAV), I told my wife "It's so quiet I could hear a mouse pass gass three studios away". I know, you could have gone all day without that image. But it IS true. You CAN hear every nuance in announcer's voices, and in quiet instruments. You can hear pages turning (sheet music and copy0. You can hear the tiniest inhalation and exhalation of breath. You can freaking hear EVERYTHING!

This is one of the things that drives me nuts about anti-HD folks. I am pro HD (on FM), but can readily admit that THERE ARE PROBLEMS, some of them potentially quite large. Why can't anti-HD folks say "you know it does some things very well, but I'm not convinced because......" Saying there is NO important difference in quality makes me thing a)-you've never heard HD on a well engineered station, or b)-you're not a very observant "audio guy". Yes it CAN sound quite mediocre, and many of the advantages I've spoken of go away when stations feed their over-compressed, pre-emphasized signal into the HD encoder! It gets worse when stations get too aggressive with multicasting, and the bitrates tumble. But when it's good, it's VERY, VERY good. And even when it's mediocre, it (HD) provides fully quieted, fully separated stereo sound in rural areas like mine where these qualities are difficult or impossible to come by, even with expensive outdoor antennas. The total absence of noise, multipath distortion, and blending to mono to deal with them, ought to give any serious "audioguy" pause!
 
Mike,

My preference for radio listening is classical music (I am also a musician). My standard of comparison is WFMT; considered by many to be one of the best classical radio stations in the world. The quality of reception from WFMT on any analog receiver that I own is perfectly satisfactory for my purposes.

When I am in Washington (which is fairly frequently), I listen primarily to WBJC, Baltimore when I can receive it. WBJC is an excellent station with great programming and audio. I can honestly say that from an audio standpoint, it would not make one bit of difference to me if the audio quality of the transmission system of either of these stations was improved by 100%. Content is king; technology is secondary.

I am not opposed to digital broadcasting per se; however, the fact that a station is broadcasting in digital does not mean it is broadcasting high quality audio. It is a wonderful thing that silence is "silent" in digital, but how many people listen to radio in an environment where the noise floor is predominantly important? How important is the noise floor to listeners in cars (even in a Lexus)? What about "walkman" type radios at the health club? Kitchen radios? The radio out in the garage? The radio in the office? Not so much! If the noise floor could be lowered without other consequences, I of course would not object.

You will not convince me that 32 kbps equals high quality audio, no matter what codec is used. But my main concern with HD radio is not about the audio quality, which is oversold in my opinion, but with the interference caused to other stations. That is just plain wrong, (also in my opinion). As a former broadcast engineer, and as an avid radio listener, I just cannot accept that.
 
jhardis said:
The "Bonneville FM," 107.7 WWWT, Warrington, VA, is a rim-shot repeater for 103.5 WTOP.
One of the "Radio One FMs," 104.1 WPRS, Waldorf, MD, only covers about half of the metro area. Bonneville sold it off after trying three different formats (CHR, Classical, and "George" [Jack's first cousin], in that order).

I'm familiar with 104.1's signal; Bonneville offered me the CE job there in the late 90's but after listening while driving all the way around the Beltway, I decided I didn't want to deal with constant complaints about "why isn't our coverage better". Also, I spoke with a former CE and he told me the antenna pattern had already been "goosed up" as much as he dared towards the north.

So I suspect WWWT and WPRS turned off IBOC to reduce "blending annoyance" complaints from DC area listeners with HD receivers. It's also worth noting that both of these stations suffer large areas of first-adjacent overlap; WWWT fights with 107.9 in Annapolis and WPRS collides with 104.3 in Baltimore, and to a lesser extent, 103.9 in Braddock Heights near Frederick, MD. This undoubtedly degrades digital reception.

Will the 10 dB power increase help? Don't count on it -- the "neighbors" are likely to complain. Loudly.

WJFK 106.7 might be on and off because they've been doing work on their directional antenna (which reduces power to the northeast). However, they also must contend with strong first-adjacent interference -- in this case, from WWMX, a nondirectional CBS sister station at 106.5 in Baltimore. Apparently, this has been killing WJFK's coverage in the U of MD campus, as we learn from this non-stealth STA filing:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=683589

Terrain is likely a factor, but I also wonder about the upper digital sideband of 106.5. And if WWMX increases its digital power by 10 dB, can you imagine the mess in College Park? But it wouldn't surprise me -- look at what CBS has done with WBZ vs. KDKA.
 
I am also a musician, I listen to many different types of music from classic jazz to older hard rock and many things in between. The best sounding FM HD station I have heard is WGBH 89.7 Boston. It is a 100KW NPR station, I'm about 40 miles from it. I listen to jazz on it and it sounds great in HD when there are no artifacts and it is very quiet, but it also sounds very good in analog. If IBOC didn't have all the inherent problems it has, interference to other stations, drop outs, lousy range, etc. I would maybe at least be lukewarm about it, but the negatives far outweigh the positives.
 
Re: They’re turning off HD in Washington, DC

jhardis said:
None of these would be considered a "major" DC station, or a showcase for IBOC.

Therein lies some of the problems with these HD rollouts. HD isn't going to work on a) AM, for the most part and b) marginal FM signals. Imagine how much more money could have been saved if, instead of shutting down these rimshots and AMs, they'd never installed the thing in the first place!

I have no issue with HD on FM for the big stations or even most of the little stations... But I can't imagine how a station would upgrade when 65% of their target audience will be out of digital range, or in a blend zone. Except by corporate decree. :mad:
 
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