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they all run together

G

gethigh

Guest
Let's keep this nice and geeky all you radio people!

As far as radio formats go in Philadelphia, I have question to an observation I made a long time ago. Philly has 2 rock station that matter, WYSP and WMMR. Both basically sound alike.eventhough Arbitron lumps them in the philly market, I don't think WZZO could be considered a philly station. I know that 'YSP is supposed to be Active Rock and 'MMR is supposed to be Mainstream Rock. except where artists like Mudvayne and slipknot are concerned and WYSP's sports, they basically sound the same with similar playlists. I get why Philly has 2 rock stations. now with that being said, let's look at the Urban Flavored stations in Philly, since there is no other real format except, country & News/talk ( that's another thread )

In Philly the Urban stations all run together, like so. Clear Channel has WUSL, WJJZ, WDAS-FM & AM and WIOQ. Beasley has WIred 96.5, and Radio-One has given us it's soul radio station and WRNB. It seems to me that WUSL, WDAS-FM and Wired 96.5 play the same sound. I know that WRDW and WIOQ do butt heads, but 96.5 seems to play more hip/hop than WIOQ, but those 2 play similar artists. and WUSL and WDAS-FM play similar artists. Why are there so many stations that sound alike as opposed to being their own brands? has radio become that bland?
 
> Let's keep this nice and geeky all you radio people!
>
> As far as radio formats go in Philadelphia, I have question
> to an observation I made a long time ago. Philly has 2 rock
> station that matter, WYSP and WMMR. Both basically sound
> alike.eventhough Arbitron lumps them in the philly market, I
> don't think WZZO could be considered a philly station. I
> know that 'YSP is supposed to be Active Rock and 'MMR is
> supposed to be Mainstream Rock. except where artists like
> Mudvayne and slipknot are concerned and WYSP's sports, they
> basically sound the same with similar playlists. I get why
> Philly has 2 rock stations. now with that being said, let's
> look at the Urban Flavored stations in Philly, since there
> is no other real format except, country & News/talk ( that's
> another thread )
>
> In Philly the Urban stations all run together, like so.
> Clear Channel has WUSL, WJJZ, WDAS-FM & AM and WIOQ. Beasley
> has WIred 96.5, and Radio-One has given us it's soul radio
> station and WRNB. It seems to me that WUSL, WDAS-FM and
> Wired 96.5 play the same sound. I know that WRDW and WIOQ do
> butt heads, but 96.5 seems to play more hip/hop than WIOQ,
> but those 2 play similar artists. and WUSL and WDAS-FM play
> similar artists. Why are there so many stations that sound
> alike as opposed to being their own brands? has radio become
> that bland?

Yep.

And it seems they all run together so badly you forgot R1's gem WPHI.

One night while driving home from work I flipped back and forth between Wired and Q, and wouldn't you know it they were playing the same song and were only about 2 seconds off from each other.

Needless to say this is far from the first time I've caught them in that.
<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
Y-100

I would agree and add, the only station that was like a breath of fresh air and kinda did what they wanted to some extent, was Y-100. We all know what happened to them, its in my other thread. Why someone else does not pick up the ball and run with it, is a true unsolved mystery.
 
Re: Y-100

Why someone else does not pick up the
ball and run with it, is a true unsolved mystery.

BECAUSE IT DOESNT MAKE MONEY. Jeez you're dense.
 
Re: Y-100

> BECAUSE IT DOESNT MAKE MONEY. Jeez you're dense.
>
What is the basis of this claim? WPLY cleared more money than WRNB and WPHI combined.

It did make money in Philadelphia.

I don't think your dense...just ignorant and uninformed...well..okay...dense
 
> Yup. Pretty much. If you ask phillyradioboy we need FOX-FM
> whatever that.
>
It's just more blockhead sports guys who want to yak about team statistics and have bigger d*ck arguments over which city has the better team and basically have more of the same arguments that are already heard on WIP. Thank whoever that Philly isn't overrun with sports radio. Oh I almost forgot, We'll have an alernative to WIP, it's whatever 950 WPEN is going to morph into.
 
Re: Y-100

> > BECAUSE IT DOESNT MAKE MONEY. Jeez you're dense.
> >
> What is the basis of this claim? WPLY cleared more money
> than WRNB and WPHI combined.
>
> It did make money in Philadelphia.
>
> I don't think your dense...just ignorant and
> uninformed...well..okay...dense
>
It also cost a ton more to run. And its a format on the down swing, another one bit the dust recently in Long Island.

BTW if you want to call someone ignorant, uninformed and well okay dense try and spell you're right. Now go back to crying on the Y100Rocks message board.
 
Re: Y-100

> BTW if you want to call someone ignorant, uninformed and
> well okay dense try and spell you're right. Now go back to
> crying on the Y100Rocks message board.
>

That's the best you can do? You don't even back up YOUR own claim that Y did not make a profit?

I stand by my prior statement...even with the poor grammar...

Next time you call somebody DENSE, back up your claim and stop playing English teacher.
 
Re: Y-100

> > BTW if you want to call someone ignorant, uninformed and
> > well okay dense try and spell you're right. Now go back to
>
> > crying on the Y100Rocks message board.
> >
>
> That's the best you can do? You don't even back up YOUR own
> claim that Y did not make a profit?
>
> I stand by my prior statement...even with the poor
> grammar...
>
> Next time you call somebody DENSE, back up your claim and
> stop playing English teacher.
>
I could go and look but I really don't want to. I am just sick of the "Y"-ning. The station is gone. Sure it may have billed more, but it also cost more. From what I'm hearing everything is doing much better in their target demos so they're doing just fine more than likely the profit margain have increased. The facts are more than likely out there, but again too lazy to go get them because this is a message board full of geeks not Fulbright scholars. I'm writing a quick post not a term paper.

You can stand by your statement or you can just accept the fake that Alt-Rock is on a downswing and is getting flipped all over the place for stations that may not bill as much but are more profitable.

Example you sell one doughnut for 50 cents. It costs 40 cents but everybody loves it MMM MMM its the best doughnut EVER. But unfortunatly they only buy this ONE doughnut and none of the other products you offer.

So you change it to a doughnut that less people as a whole like but they come in and LOVE everything in your store. This Doughnut costs 5 cents to make and you're selling it for 25 cents.

There ya go some research and an analogy.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by SCRHack on 09/16/05 08:41 PM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: Y-100

> I could go and look but I really don't want to.

That's what I originally thought.

I am just
> sick of the "Y"-ning. The station is gone. Sure it may have
> billed more, but it also cost more. From what I'm hearing
> everything is doing much better in their target demos so
> they're doing just fine more than likely the profit margain
> have increased. The facts are more than likely out there,
> but again too lazy to go get them

Right. DENSE

because this is a message
> board full of geeks not Fulbright scholars. I'm writing a
> quick post not a term paper.

Too late.

> You can stand by your statement or you can just accept the
> fake that Alt-Rock is on a downswing and is getting flipped
> all over the place for stations that may not bill as much
> but are more profitable.

Alternative Rock is on the "downswing"? Wow! I didn't notice.

>
> Example you sell one doughnut for 50 cents. It costs 40
> cents but everybody loves it MMM MMM its the best doughnut
> EVER. But unfortunatly they only buy this ONE doughnut and
> none of the other products you offer.
>
> So you change it to a doughnut that less people as a whole
> like but they come in and LOVE everything in your store.
> This Doughnut costs 5 cents to make and you're selling it
> for 25 cents.

What was that about a term paper? You put way too much thought into this. I feel bad too because I really didn't read it.

>
> There ya go some research and an analogy.


You have nothing. I'm done with you. Good Day.
 
Re: Y-100

Can we perhaps raise the quality of the discourse on this board to a point above the "am not" / "are too" level to which this thread devolved ?

Bill
 
Re: Y-100 made tons of money

WPLY generated more income than all 3 R1 properties combined, don't buy it, talk to Jim, he will provide you with the tallys. Sure it cost more to run Y, with personal appearances and sonic sessions, but not by much. Y-100 gave the listener what they wanted and catered to them, which is not done in radio nowadays, at least in this market. They made more than they spent. Money was NOT THE REASON R1 FLIPPED THEM. Alternative is not on the downswing, the promoters are not pushing it, like they do Rap and Hip Hop, which is music for the little kiddies, who spend loads of mommy and daddys money....just the facts HACK, and don't insult me again, if you cannot respond in a polite manner, than don't. Your posts show you are not a Rock lover, you embrace rhythmic trends, but it does not give you a reason to step on the rockers toes.
 
Re: Y-100/Another rocker checks in

It's funny. The people who say rock/alt is on the downswing are the people who didn't like rock in the first place.

Goes along with the theory on these boards "every station should play music I like, and the ones that don't should flip to it tomorrow". God forbid they have to tune past Led Zeppelin.....it'll scar their little, feeble minds!!!

But, instead of "everyone has their own likes and dislikes", they'd rather EXCLUDE than include.


It's only a matter of time before we get this week's "Station X sucks, they should flip to dance" post. UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!<P ID="signature">______________
I've done it all...HOO HOO...tell 'em, Fred!
FOX News Alert: YOU SUCK!!! Ya like apples?</P>
 
Re: Y-100

Bill:

I have to agree. Some posters show their immaturity along with a relative lack of English grammar and spelling. The board deserves better. Note: I have heard WRDV and WLBS ....very ambitious programming for a listener supported non comm.

Dave Gardiner

WVCH 740

Chester/Philadelphia
 
Re: Y-100 made tons of money - you want the truth? You can't handle the truth...

I tried to stay out of this, but couldn't resist. This is going to be really long...sorry, but I need to get some things off my chest.

I am still amazed that after 7 months Y100 is still one of the most talked about stations in Philly. Not just here, but in many water cooler conversations regarding radio in Philly. If anyone would take a moment to notice, Y100rocks.com is starting to develop into quite a nice little "niche" station, with a regular rotation of live shows and new jocks. You really should start to pay attention cause one day that thing could take off (and will in my opinion).

Ok, I would like to attempt to clear up a couple misconceptions (disclaimer: this is all imo, if you choose to differ or see where my information is wrong or off base please speak up):

Just like WDRE, Y100 became way more popular AFTER it died. Y100 to some NOW was the greatest station to ever hit the airwaves. It's sort of how legends spread. I am not saying it wasn't a great station, I am saying that people are way more vocal on the positive side NOW than they were when it was alive...those same people probably bashed the station or claimed to be losing interest for playing too much music they weren't embracing - in which we will get into that later...

Y100 suffered from timing. Let's call it the "Perfect Radio Storm".

First, when the beer compliance rules came into effect (70/30 audience composition where 70% of your audience must be over the age of 21) Y100 was toast. That was a HUGE category for Y100. Between the late 90's up till maybe 2003 if you were to cut Y100's veins it would spill beer. Blame the "Sex for Sam" incident for ruining a great thing.

How many new night clubs opened in the last 3 years, and at the same time how many closed? There were more closings than openings, and the ones that remained open moved to "dance" nights rather than "rock". That's a big chunk on Y100's local direct cash. If you drink beer you need a social place that fits your lifestyle to drink it in.

So you get the picture that rev was down in a big way just in two categories alone. Just so happened to be two of the most vital categories for Y100. Maybe those two categories alone were what made Y100 a profitable venture in the first place.

Second, when something is "successful" everyone wants to be a part of the process...and when that same thing starts to diminish the "geniuses" think they can "fix" things. If you were really noticing, when O&A came into the market Y100 "tweaked" their sound...a little heavier, right? No, a lot heavier. Metalica? On Y100? Are you kidding me? I remember the exact moment the first time Y100 played "Enter Sandman" - it was 5:00 on a Friday, and I was like - uh oh, Y100 just jumped the shark.

Now, do you really think that Jim McGuinn WANTED to play Metalica? Or do you think that the radio one brain trust strongly suggested that Jim play Metalica? My bet is on the suggestion rather than the choice. That started the progression away from "alternative" and more towards "commercial rock". There were times where when YSP was playing music you could not tell if you were listening to YSP or Y100.

The more the ratings declined the "tighter" Y100 had to become. The "tighter" Y100 became the more they alienated their core felt - I know, I was one of them.

That ain't my Y100, that's somebody else's, and too many people felt the same way. But they stayed with their old friend hoping that maybe just maybe Y100 would find it's way. Mean while, the hip hop, r&b and rap format was emerging as a commercial product. Say bye bye to any additional ratings Y100 could steal, and more importantly, the kids weren't down wit da rock shows no mo, they wanted to see Fitty, and Puffy and Jay, and that damned white kid Marshall - who Y100 was the first to play in Philly.

Alternative rock - once an "underground scene" was moving back to being "underground" - not dead. A show of hands, WHO CAN NAME ONE ARCADE FIRE SONG? If you are like "who the hell is Arcade Fire", that's my point - they are arguably the hottest band in the country...oh, and David Bowie just sat in with them in Central Park...that's where "alternative" is folks...it's alive and well in small venues and oddly enough - on da inner net. You ain't gonna hear no Arcade Fire on any terrestrial station in Philly for a long long time.


I know it's a lot, so to review:
1.) major loss of revenue sources
2.) the "product" was "in-flux"
3.) market conditions were changing

Any business/brand would have trouble with those circumstances regardless of history - look at Kodak when digital cameras came to market.

At the same time, Y100 was an expensive station to run relative to the "new" revenue numbers. What do you think one of the top concerts in the country with 10 national bands costs to put on? Now, if they were lucky they broke even on the last FEZtival and FEASTival. Most radio companies need a 3:1 or at least a 2:1 ratio to put out cash for something related to NTR.

Did anyone happen to notice that the last two FEASTivals moved from an 18,000 seat venue to a 7,500? Hmmmmm. An indication of things?

In addition, as pointed out in other threads, Y100 had a 5 person morning show and two long term prime jocks. Thinks that's cheep? How about all the other crap Y100 did? 15,000 sonic session cd's, 10+ sonic sessions with big time bands, a lot of vehicles and support staff.

The last element to our "Perfect Storm" is company initiatives.

If IBM some how owned a division that produced, oh I don't know, how about shoes, because they really wanted to own the land and the factory that the shoe company was on, and the shoes were a popular brand, but when the brand started to peter out and the top selling model of the brand - let's call them the Preston & Steve model - was no longer going to be produced for cost reasons, it only makes sense for IBM to close up shop and move on to their original plans of making the factory a place to make computers.

Radio One's core focus is not rock catered to suburban white kids. It just so happens that the license was available, so they bought it for future use, and waited until Y100 was no longer bringing in big profits.

It's sh*tty, as too many on this board know first hand, but it is a business. If you spent $88,000,000 what would you have done?
 
Re: Y-100 made tons of money - you want the truth? You can't handle the truth...

> Second, when something is "successful" everyone wants to be
> a part of the process...and when that same thing starts to
> diminish the "geniuses" think they can "fix" things. If you
> were really noticing, when O&A came into the market Y100
> "tweaked" their sound...a little heavier, right? No, a lot
> heavier. Metalica? On Y100? Are you kidding me? I remember
> the exact moment the first time Y100 played "Enter Sandman"
> - it was 5:00 on a Friday, and I was like - uh oh, Y100 just
> jumped the shark.

Great post, but I have to disagree with this part. Y100 wasn't doing all that well at the time they tweaked, not much better than they were doing at the time of the flip. At the same time, YSP was doing great with O&A and it looked like they were going to flip to Hot Talk 24/7. The Radio One braintrust, or whoever, noticed there was a big hole for the harder stuff. It actually worked for a book or two, but then O&A imploded, and YSP went back to playing music. All of the hard rock fans who had gone to Y100 went back to YSP. "Sex For Sam" helped to kill Y100 in more ways than one.
 
Re: Y-100

> Bill:
>
> I have to agree. Some posters show their immaturity along
> with a relative lack of English grammar and spelling. The
> board deserves better. Note: I have heard WRDV and WLBS
> ....very ambitious programming for a listener supported non
> comm.
>
> Dave Gardiner
>
> WVCH 740
>
> Chester/Philadelphia
>

Thanks for the kind words. It's tough to keep a consistent quality sound when everyone's a volunteer, and most have no real experience (myself included, except for a stretch on WRTI when I was in college, about 25 years ago). We try to sound as big-time (some vintage jingles, some home-brew positioners, and Shadow Traffic) as we can, given a fairly weak signal and no sugar daddy backing us.

You ought to drop by some time; the equipment is mostly new, and very good, and the audio quality is fairly high because we don't do a whole lot of weirdo processing.

Bill
 
Re: Y-100

Bill:

I'd love to drop by; I'd be coming from Oreland as I just moved up this way.
Still learning the area but just need an address so I can dump it into Mapquest.

Dave Gardiner

WVCH 740

Chester/Philadelphia
 
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