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Things that would HELP Dance out ALOT....

M

Mid West Clubber

Guest
Some of this stuff has been brought up before, but never in a dedicated thread, I think we need to think of some stuff to help better promote and sell Dance music. Get Consumers, Radio, and MTV interested in Dance Music. First and foremost there needs to be more emphasis on the artists and-or vocalist and not just the DJ. They need to have a single artist do more than one track, or calibration with DJ so and so, and have the artist release full length albums. When releasing the album put some flavor into it, dont make it all standard 4/4 beats, put some ballads and some R&B and pop flavor in there as well. Also, on the album, make a few different mixes available on the album of the hit songs. Make all the remixes commerically available via download and CD singles,,,, Im sick of not being able to legally get the mix I want. Spend some money to make a good video for MTV, make a video that people can relate to, not just novelty or off the wall crap like most Dance videos, but spend some money to have some pretty girls and nice cars and have the video tell the story of the song. First and foremost, DJs need to use the same vocalist more than once instead of chaning vocalists every song. Dance is never gonna be on teens I-pods when the star of the song is some guy on the turntables, only true clubbers and Dance fans actually understand that. For instance, why do you think Bob Sinclar is having some success now on Rhythmic stations like Power 96, its because he has used the same Jamaican Vocalist on all his latest tracks,,,,,, The problem with that is, Most people think Bob Sinclair is a Jamaican Himself, and that (he) is the lead singer on his songs. The average listener of Power 96 doesnt realise that Bob Sinclair is actually a French Producer, and not a Jamaican Vocalist, this confuses the average joe. The DJ-Producer should be presented with the artist in the same way Timbaland does it with his Hip Hop productions, that way people know they are responsible for the beats, but not the lyrics. Can you imagine how confused the average person is when they hear a female vocal track, and the station IDs the artist as a guys name...AKA The DJ... Or what about when people ask me who my favorite Dance artist is, and all I can say is UUHHHHHH,,, I dunno because they usually release one song and disappear, or use a different alias. But anyway, using Bob Sinclair as an example, I think his vocalist deserves more credit, it should be Bob Sinclair FEAT....?????? When you hear that song APPOLOGIZE, they dont just ID it as Timbaland, but usually just mention ONE Republic, or sometimes Timbaland Present One Republic... You see what im getting at here.
 
Hell, people can't even spell is 'professional' name correctly. It's Bob Sinclar.

I don't think it's a problem with focusing on DJ's vs Singers. It's about educating the public. Outside of the US people know Sinclar is a French DJ. They watch the videos on MTV too. This country just isn't ready to embrace our world.

We do our best on Energy 98 to tag and list on our logs for our jocks the singer.

There's two versions of 'Apologize'. Timbaland f/OneRepublic and OneRepublic. Most presenters are stupid. (Trust me on this one). It's about style only. They'll compose their break to fit whatever they want to get across...and IDing the artists isn't #1.
 
I started to spell it that way myself, and went back and added the I because ive seen radio stations spell it both ways.
 
He's named after a movie character. Hell in his song Sounds of Freedom, one of the rappers can't even say his name right...but who cares...it's all about $$$.

We see stuff listed wrong all the time. There are those who have no clue, and those who make honest mistakes. Most have no clue.
 
theedger said:
Hell, people can't even spell is 'professional' name correctly. It's Bob Sinclar.

I don't think it's a problem with focusing on DJ's vs Singers. It's about educating the public. Outside of the US people know Sinclar is a French DJ. They watch the videos on MTV too. This country just isn't ready to embrace our world.

We do our best on Energy 98 to tag and list on our logs for our jocks the singer.

There's two versions of 'Apologize'. Timbaland f/OneRepublic and OneRepublic. Most presenters are stupid. (Trust me on this one). It's about style only. They'll compose their break to fit whatever they want to get across...and IDing the artists isn't #1.
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This country is ready to embrace our world. There is a problem when there is a focus on the DJ. People want to see their favorite artists perform and they want to hear them on the radio. The general club cant afford to have a Tiesto or PVD spin plus if they did who is gonna perform the songs? Our world isnt just about the DJ, its about the music. I for one am against having DJ X ft. artist X or even just DJ X as the name of the artist Cascada does it right. they go by a group so when they perform its not a problem. How can we educate people when we confuse them? The Bob Sinclar arguement came up in AC and it does cause a problem. KTU had on their line up Bob Sinclar was performing but it was actually Gary Pine. To me thats false advertising and again does damage to growing our listening audience.

This genre has serious issues when we market it to the general person. Right now who is the face of dance music?
 
I see things eye to eye with theedger. It's not a DJ vs vocalist problem. With some records the vocals add another dimension or layer to a song and it fits brilliantly. One of the things I love about Progressive House and Trance is that you can get lost in the music, you don't need any vox and sometimes they're just in the way.
There are some vocalists I enjoy hearing like Jan Johnston or Kirsty Hakshaw, but I'm much more about the DJs and producers. Daft Punk, Chemical Brothers, Ferry Corsten, David Guetta, Infected Mushroom, Airbase stuff from the Swedish House mafia, Sasha & Digweed, that's the type of Dance stuff I enjoy the most.
 
CHRles said:
I see things eye to eye with theedger. It's not a DJ vs vocalist problem. With some records the vocals add another dimension or layer to a song and it fits brilliantly. One of the things I love about Progressive House and Trance is that you can get lost in the music, you don't need any vox and sometimes they're just in the way.
There are some vocalists I enjoy hearing like Jan Johnston or Kirsty Hakshaw, but I'm much more about the DJs and producers. Daft Punk, Chemical Brothers, Ferry Corsten, David Guetta, Infected Mushroom, Airbase stuff from the Swedish House mafia, Sasha & Digweed, that's the type of Dance stuff I enjoy the most.
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but you arent the average listener. This genre forgets that.
 
Bret,

So you're saying that all over Europe dance music has an I.D. problem? It's about exposing and educating the consumer. In EU that happens more than here. In the U.S. the consumer just downloads the music from p2p or if they hear the song on the radio, the odds are the station doesn't know anything about the song either. They just saw it on a chart or a mixshow dj saw some other dj playing it so the downloaded it and told the pd this song is huge and it gets added it to rotation.

There are two main dance communities (both with shades of gray). The clubber and everyone else. The clubber likes longer melodic songs and follows the happenings of the DJ world. Everyone else is the group of dance music fans that like to listen to music from the likes of Madonna to Bob Sinclar. They don't really care who the artist is, they just like, somewhat like, ok, somewhat dislike, don't like a song. They are the ones who buy the mix cd's with the latest and greatest songs on them. They may think that DJ Irene is the artist who performs Sandstorm. They don't know that mix cd's often have pitched/timestreached and alternate mixes of songs. Their friends don't understand why the listen to techno.

As a radio programmer we cater to the 'everyone else' crowd and try to offer speciality shows for the clubbers. As radio programmers we care about who is singing on a song (for artist separation).

If KTU promoted Bob Sinclar and gave you Gary Pine - that's a KTU promotions issue. They should have said Gary Pine and used the Bob Sinclar track he sang on to ID who Gary Pine is.

The dance audience isn't dumb, they're just ignorant or don't really care. We need to stop kidding ourselves in thinking that there has to be a face to the music. I couldn't pick the face of more than half the people on any music chart. Only fans of artists know the face. The key is producing good music. That doesn't happen in the states that often. We're given coal to play all the time and told it's a diamond. Some are happy with a playlist full of coal - and there's nothing wrong with that. We all have our demographic.
 
theedger said:
We're given coal to play all the time and told it's a diamond. Some are happy with a playlist full of coal - and there's nothing wrong with that. We all have our demographic.
Click to expand...

Brilliant! :eek: :eek:
 
theedger said:
Bret,

So you're saying that all over Europe dance music has an I.D. problem? It's about exposing and educating the consumer. In EU that happens more than here. In the U.S. the consumer just downloads the music from p2p or if they hear the song on the radio, the odds are the station doesn't know anything about the song either. They just saw it on a chart or a mixshow dj saw some other dj playing it so the downloaded it and told the pd this song is huge and it gets added it to rotation.

There are two main dance communities (both with shades of gray). The clubber and everyone else. The clubber likes longer melodic songs and follows the happenings of the DJ world. Everyone else is the group of dance music fans that like to listen to music from the likes of Madonna to Bob Sinclar. They don't really care who the artist is, they just like, somewhat like, ok, somewhat dislike, don't like a song. They are the ones who buy the mix cd's with the latest and greatest songs on them. They may think that DJ Irene is the artist who performs Sandstorm. They don't know that mix cd's often have pitched/timestreached and alternate mixes of songs. Their friends don't understand why the listen to techno.

As a radio programmer we cater to the 'everyone else' crowd and try to offer speciality shows for the clubbers. As radio programmers we care about who is singing on a song (for artist separation).

If KTU promoted Bob Sinclar and gave you Gary Pine - that's a KTU promotions issue. They should have said Gary Pine and used the Bob Sinclar track he sang on to ID who Gary Pine is.

The dance audience isn't dumb, they're just ignorant or don't really care. We need to stop kidding ourselves in thinking that there has to be a face to the music. I couldn't pick the face of more than half the people on any music chart. Only fans of artists know the face. The key is producing good music. That doesn't happen in the states that often. We're given coal to play all the time and told it's a diamond. Some are happy with a playlist full of coal - and there's nothing wrong with that. We all have our demographic.
Click to expand...

Im not worried about Europe Im talking about the US. How can you educate a consumer if the consumer doesnt even know who the artist is? People dont care about who the artist is? Gee thats funny, then why do artists have myspace pages, web sites, go on TRL and promote themselves. The everyday person wants to know the artist. Why was there breaking news that Britney Spears was released from the hospital? With Bob Sinclar, who wants to see Gary Pine, when the record is promoted as Bob Sinclar? Give me a break. If you have ever been to Beatstock you can see that the 30,000 people that are there embrace the artists that they can relate too. These are the artists that have a story and you can see them.

You cant pick a face of an artist? I guarantee you know what Bono, Bon Jovi, Madonna, Jay Z, Rihanna, Beyonce, Mary J Blige, Metallica, and Miley Cyrus look like.

If you think its coal then dont play it. Thats your choice as a programmer. You can play 24 hours of Barry Manilow and thats your choice.
 
MWC , cool post...sounds familiar...maybe cos I suggested all these things and presented all these arguements three years ago...
WITH paragraphs(lol)...and nothing changed..
but keep the passion alive...good boy
 
Dancerev889 said:
Im not worried about Europe Im talking about the US. How can you educate a consumer if the consumer doesnt even know who the artist is? People dont care about who the artist is? Gee thats funny, then why do artists have myspace pages, web sites, go on TRL and promote themselves. The everyday person wants to know the artist. Why was there breaking news that Britney Spears was released from the hospital? With Bob Sinclar, who wants to see Gary Pine, when the record is promoted as Bob Sinclar? Give me a break. If you have ever been to Beatstock you can see that the 30,000 people that are there embrace the artists that they can relate too. These are the artists that have a story and you can see them.


You cant pick a face of an artist? I guarantee you know what Bono, Bon Jovi, Madonna, Jay Z, Rihanna, Beyonce, Mary J Blige, Metallica, and Miley Cyrus look like.

If you think its coal then dont play it. Thats your choice as a programmer. You can play 24 hours of Barry Manilow and thats your choice.
Click to expand...
How can you educate the consumer if you don't know who the artist is. Myspace/websites/TLR is all about self promotion. You have to have a reason to go to an artists Myspace or website. The reason is you heard a song you like and did the research. TLR is just labels buying time for exposure. Nothing wrong with that, but know the difference.

Most people don't care about Britney. If TV never did another report about her, no one would notice. Britney, Bono, Jon Bon Jovi, Madonna are artists that have exposure outside the music world.


Bono - the guys been around for 20+ years and is very active outside of the music world so yes I know him, Bon Jovi - same thing - he's an actor too., Madonna - She is a brilliant marketer since for nearly 30 years. Jay-Z - nope, Rihanna - saw her in person but would make a guess it's her, Beyonce - I think but not sure, Mary J - same, Metallica - nope, Miley Cyrus - not sure.

Music today isn't like it was in the 80's. MTV exposes a lot of faces to people who watch MTV. But the AVERAGE listener, and anyone on this board isn't one, cares less about whois performing the song and more about if they like the song. You don't have to have a face to have a good song.

I don't know what most of the artists at Beatstock look like. I know their songs though.

We don't need to worry about Europe. We need to LEARN from Europe. They're doing it right. We're NOT. Culture has a lot to do with it. Who influences culture? We're all moving a mountain. Over time it will change.

What's wrong with Manilow? That guy is loaded! I think I'll start a 24/7 channel and call it BM. Oh Mandy!
 
Marketing... that's what it's all about!

In 1999, ask the average person who the lead singer of N*SYNC was, and they might give a blank stare for a few minutes. But now, everyone know who Justin Timberlake was.

In the same vein, a song can not always rest on the artist to make it big. Think of some collaborations in the past. I got in trouble for saying "Black Eyed Peas featuring Justin Timberlake." Mainly because when the listener went to look for the album, if they need to find the BEP album and not a JT album to get that track.

Another example: Rockwell "Somebody's watching me." Yes that was MJ on the backing chorus, but only a industry insiders knew it, and it was NEVER said on the radio.

Our job as DJ/Programmers/GM's is to Entertain, but also SELL records! The listener needs to know WHICH album they can find the track you are playing on, and where they can get it.

If we want to get the word out on tracks, hit the artist and title as it appears on an album, the listener is not going to go in to a store and check the liner notes for Kristy Hershaws track..
 
the Rockwell track was in power rotation in the early days of MTV and the VJs made sure that EVERYONE knew Michael Jackson was on the record
 
Did they also make sure everyone knew that Sting sang the "I want My MTV" line in Dire Straits "Money For Nothing"?
 
Hot96portland said:
Marketing... that's what it's all about!
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I'm jumping in a little late on this conversation, but you are right - and this is what is seriously lacking in the dance music industry in the US.

I think the other problem with the industry over there is the fact that genres like hiphop and reggaton reign supreme....also the fact that people are not educated about the music - and this even trickles down to the big labels - they think everything with a 4/4 beat is techno, or that all electronic music sounds the same, etc etc, when that simply is not true....and they have no one to guide them and tell them they are wrong when they assume these things about dance music. At one time, dance music was well on its way to becoming the next big thing....the early 90's were some of the best times of my life when it came to dance music, buying records, going out. What happened? I could go on and on about everything that is wrong with dance music itself, but errrr.....yea.....

Another problem is that the US is a huge country, and even the people in the US who DO support this music are so spread out, unlike here in Europe where you could drive in just about any direction to catch a massive festival soley for this music. Festivals that come to mind - I Love Techno, Awakenings, Love Parade, 10 Days Off, Sonar, Nature One....how many festivals are there like this in the US, outside of Ultra and DEMF, that are supporting and pushing soley dance music?

Ultimately, what needs to happen is you need to somehow get some mainstream outlets to start really pushing the music.....they do it here in Europe - big companies sponsoring big parties, mainstream radio and mtv playing the music, magazine coverage, etc etc, so I don't understand why they can't do this in the US. Especially considering that most people in Europe believe that techno originally came from the US (jeff mills, juan atkins, etc) Why is electronic music not as popular over there? There doesn't need to be a face really....there just needs to be people behind it that are willing to push the music.

Oh, and one other big difference between the US and Europe - governments here actually support the music unlike in the US, where the government wants to plant the fear fear fear into people.....people who listen to dance music do drugs, people who throw events do too, etc etc.....It's a shame really - governments here in Europe actually help fund and promote a lot of these events....maybe the US government should take some of that money that they are using to fund the war and use it to fund a big fat party 8)
 
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