This is not your father's 50-something

[Anyacat]

The complaint is not about format change, but about further consolidation, which even an FCC study showed has negative effects. The flip may have galvanized some people to look closer into the issue, but I see nothing there to indicate that anyone believes that the FCC can control format. Listeners showed their appreciation by listening and by patronizing advertisers businesses.

 

[TheFonz]

survive WHAT? where is it written that U are supposed to like more than 3-4 stations? why is it the responsibility of 23 stations to all satisfy U? we keep hearing the creepy radio death knell but it mostly sounds like pissy fits.

Webster's dictionary defines "survive" as "to continue to function or manage in spite of some adverse circumstance or hardship" (read "fewer listeners"). And you're making my point. I'm NOT supposed to like more than 3 or 4 stations (or maybe even more than 1). So in order for all of those 23 stations to "survive", one of them might just have to think about niche programing to listeners like me.

 

[OldGringo]

survive WHAT? where is it written that U are supposed to like more than 3-4 stations? why is it the responsibility of 23 stations to all satisfy U? we keep hearing the creepy radio death knell but it mostly sounds like pissy fits.

Webster's dictionary defines "survive" as "to continue to function or manage in spite of some adverse circumstance or hardship" (read "fewer listeners"). And you're making my point. I'm NOT supposed to like more than 3 or 4 stations (or maybe even more than 1). So in order for all of those 23 stations to "survive", one of them might just have to think about niche programing to listeners like me.

If you are in a larger city, and over 55, nobody wants to program to you.

Keep in mind that most markets, out of many AMs, have only a couple that can compete based on ratings. The rest will be religious or brokered or whatever... not after ratings. And some of the FMs will be limited signal ones, and not compete for ratings. So the couple of big AMs and the full signal FMs take 95% of the audience. And they go for segments that are marketable.

 

[Anyacat]

With the programming shift away from providing either entertainment or news toward providing more advertising profits through any means possible, OG, is, of course, correct. One can yammer on all one wants about how radio was always a cash cow for advertisers, but advertisers in the past knew that the way to attract an audience was to give them something to listen to. Listeners today have a variety of options and I believe they are leaving terrestrial radio because it has become uninteresting or informative or entertaining to them. Finally, the strict adherence to the belief that people age 50 or older are in same way similar to their parents, is both silly and short sighted. But I feel sure that someone will come along to hammer home the iron clad rule "But that's how it is" as if there is no other way.

 

[TheFonz]

If you are in a larger city, and over 55, nobody wants to program to you.
Keep in mind that most markets, out of many AMs, have only a couple that can compete based on ratings. The rest will be religious or brokered or whatever... not after ratings. And some of the FMs will be limited signal ones, and not compete for ratings. So the couple of big AMs and the full signal FMs take 95% of the audience. And they go for segments that are marketable.

Good explanation. Thank you. It's just a sad commentary on the business of radio when that business is forced to program religion or infomercials 24/7 rather than program to an audience that they've held for 40+ years.

 

[Anyacat]

and as you know, Fonz, people older than 55 stuff their money in mattresses and never ever go on expensive vacations or buy new fangaled toys like them IPods and computers and Blackberry or drive nice cars or eat out. This generation is just like the last generation which grew up during a depression, unlike their children who had the best and are used to having the best...oh, wait, that flies in the face of conventional wisdom, so it must not be true.

 

[radiofriend1]

and as you know, Fonz, people older than 55 stuff their money in mattresses and never ever go on expensive vacations or buy new fangaled toys like them IPods and computers and Blackberry or drive nice cars or eat out. This generation is just like the last generation which grew up during a depression, unlike their children who had the best and are used to having the best...oh, wait, that flies in the face of conventional wisdom, so it must not be true.

hey guys i think the **I'M OVER 55 AND PISSED AT THE WORLD** board is somewhere else on r-i

 

[OldGringo]

and as you know, Fonz, people older than 55 stuff their money in mattresses and never ever go on expensive vacations or buy new fangaled toys like them IPods and computers and Blackberry or drive nice cars or eat out. This generation is just like the last generation which grew up during a depression, unlike their children who had the best and are used to having the best...oh, wait, that flies in the face of conventional wisdom, so it must not be true.

As I have said before, radio can not change this situation. The marketing departments at the agency client level determine the targeting, and radio does not call on the clients to sell specific formats or demos, although the RAB does make an effort to get non-users of radio to use the medium.

Again, in simple form, the client of an agency designs a product or service for a specific consumer group and advertises to that group. Agencies will tell you that the client finds that over-55 audiences generally have brand preferences, and it takes more advertising than is profitable to change existing... and often long standing... preferences. Beyond that, package size, colors and such are freuently designed with one age group in mind. There are many other consideration, but the main point is that radio is not used for marketing to 55+.

When a product does market to older citizens, the advertiser often prefers very targeted media, like direct mail to households in this age range, vs. the mass appeal shotgun approach of electroinc media. In fact, we have many cases where radio is not used for other reasons, too: many food products depend on appetite appeal of film or photography and don´t use radio, either. Radio is not for all advertisers, and we have to do our programming against audience groups that appeal to advertisers as we are advertiser supported.

 

[OldGringo]

If you are in a larger city, and over 55, nobody wants to program to you.
Keep in mind that most markets, out of many AMs, have only a couple that can compete based on ratings. The rest will be religious or brokered or whatever... not after ratings. And some of the FMs will be limited signal ones, and not compete for ratings. So the couple of big AMs and the full signal FMs take 95% of the audience. And they go for segments that are marketable.

Good explanation. Thank you. It's just a sad commentary on the business of radio when that business is forced to program religion or infomercials 24/7 rather than program to an audience that they've held for 40+ years.

It's really a commentary about the marketing aspect of larger businesses, manufacturers and service providers. Radio is an intermediary between the customer and the product and we have to build our bridge where both sides have something useful on them.

 

[Anyacat]

Radio does not want the over 50 crowd because it cannot make money from the over 50 crowd, advertisers do not want the over 50 crowd because you cannot make money from the over 50 crowd and yet somebody somewhere is making money from the over 50 crowd, we just don't know how they spend their money but we are sure that they do and if advertisers think the over 50s pay attention to junk mail, they are sadly mistaken. The title on this thread is "This is not your father's 50-something," a point missed by the radio crowd, the advertising crowd and some of the people who post here. And so it goes...

 

[fred flintstone]

The advertisers who buy radio - and have big bucks to spend - are major consumer product advertisers.
And their target customers - the people who are the heaviest users and biggest buyers in their product categories - mostly are under 55.
People over 55 do buy things and spend money.
But retirees and empty-nesters don't spend as much on most consumer products as do people still building a household, having kids and raising kids.
The companys that do market to people over 55 don't have big advertising budgets or a lot of money to spend on radio.
Oldies and Standards formats just don't generate enough revenue to operate profitably in major markets (although the formats can be profitable in smaller markets where the rules of the business are different).
And often, for the kinds of products most effectively marketed to the over 55 market, radio is not the best medium in which to sell them. With limited budgets, these advertisers have to spend where they can best sell their product. And often radio does not get included in the budget.

Sorry y'all can't hear Oldies. I'm listening XM Radio's 60s on 6 as I type. Sounds great. There still is an Oldies station I can receive (somebody else beat CBS to the "Jack" format and they haven't figured out what else to do with the station yet). I like XM better - the sound, the playlist. I can also get 50s on 5 and 70s on 7 plus others. I'd never go back.

But then I don't get the joy of coming on here to be an angry middle-aged White man and bitch about how much better radio used to be. Complaining about how much better anything used to be is a sure sign of old age.

 

[Anyacat]

Yeah, I know, we don't buy new cars or replace our old computers, we certainly do not take expensive vacations or spend our money in toys like a Blackberry and it's not as if we are looking for the next hot item to knock grandkids socks off for Christmas and birthdays.. But I'm with you, I have moved on from radio, finding other places to get what I like. Radio does not want me, and I certainly do not want it. But as for the rest, what can I saw, once a yammering protester, always a yammering protester, because I still believe the people can change things if the would just organize--and so it goes...

 

[OldGringo]

Radio does not want the over 50 crowd because it cannot make money from the over 50 crowd, advertisers do not want the over 50 crowd because you cannot make money from the over 50 crowd and yet somebody somewhere is making money from the over 50 crowd, we just don't know how they spend their money but we are sure that they do and if advertisers think the over 50s pay attention to junk mail, they are sadly mistaken. The title on this thread is "This is not your father's 50-something," a point missed by the radio crowd, the advertising crowd and some of the people who post here. And so it goes...

The issue is not a radio one nor is it an agency one. The client dictates demos based on a combination of factors.

1. ROI. How much advertising does it take to get a person to buy? Older consumers are harder to convince because they are more skeptical and have established consumption patterns. There is often no profit in advertising to them.

2. Product design. The target of a product is determined when the product (and that is the same for a can of soup as it is for an insurance offer) with a specific consumer in mind. Advertisers design products for sepcific consumer groups or niches and instruct thier agency to buy only that group.

3. Product usage. In many cases, the usage of product categories is greater in certain demos. Beer is consumed by all (legal) ages, but the brewers know where the rich consumer veins are. They would rather get the 2-six-pack-a-week youngewr males than a retired guy who drings a beer or two a week.

4. Creative focus. The ad agency will create an ad campaign targeted at the richest group of consumers (not "wealthy" but "rich" in the sense of being loaded with many consumers who would buy) and that campaign may be totally ineffective with seniors. A spot that has "kids and a dog" will not work for empty nesters. Even colors, visuals, etc., determine who will pay attention.

Advertisers with products targeted at 55+ will use alternative media. Direct mail would not exist unless it was effective, and it is very effective because lists are available with enormous stratification. If you are in the travel business, you can target those who travel. Or those who own a home. Or those who are retired. Or empty nesters.

And then you have specialty magazines, ranging from golf to travel to retired persons, most of which have an older demo. You also have direct marketing, like events that cater to seniors. It is very efficient to reach 55+ with alternate media... and keep in mind that radio has a very small part of the ad pie nationally.

 

[fred flintstone]

Yeah, I know, we don't buy new cars or replace our old computers, we certainly do not take expensive vacations or spend our money in toys like a Blackberry and it's not as if we are looking for the next hot item to knock grandkids socks off for Christmas and birthdays.. But I'm with you, I have moved on from radio, finding other places to get what I like. Radio does not want me, and I certainly do not want it. But as for the rest, what can I saw, once a yammering protester, always a yammering protester, because I still believe the people can change things if the would just organize--and so it goes...

Read my post again. I don't think you got it.

 

[OldGringo]

Yeah, I know, we don't buy new cars or replace our old computers, we certainly do not take expensive vacations or spend our money in toys like a Blackberry and it's not as if we are looking for the next hot item to knock grandkids socks off for Christmas and birthdays.. But I'm with you, I have moved on from radio, finding other places to get what I like. Radio does not want me, and I certainly do not want it. But as for the rest, what can I saw, once a yammering protester, always a yammering protester, because I still believe the people can change things if the would just organize--and so it goes...

It is not about what seniors buy or do not buy. It is about what demos advertisers buy from us. If there is no demand for 55+, and there isn't, we can not program for that demo.

As I hav ementioned before, I asked the GM of our cluster in LA how many ad buys so far in 2006 there were in the market (we all get notice of what is coming up so we can present) and she said, "none." You can not support a station in an expensive market on purly fringe local direct accounts.

 

[Anyacat]

I do understand that I am now part of a worthless demographic regardless of my buying habits or how much I spend or what I drive or what I drink. I think you have all hammered that fact home that I am a worthless consumer who should be eternally grateful for whatever crumb falls my way. I maintain that this group of 50 somethings is not like the last group and to discount them is foolish. But I understand that it is not radio, it is not advertising agencies, my god, it is not even manufacturers who do not want us, it just is...and I must be the only person in the United States who tosses direct mail away unopened--although I used to use it to get a fire going in the fireplace and, as I said to the kid who looked at me funny, yes, I do want that snazzy red convertible. I have the money to spend and what changed that made a car salesman assume that I wanted to grey fuddy-duddy car he was trying to push on me. You people give me the willies...

 

[fred flintstone]

Doesn't that new red convertible have XM or Sirius? :

You keep talking about all the disposable income you have, but you don't want to spend $12.95 a month (less with a subscription) for satellite radio. But then you'd have nothing to complain about.

You keep distorting or ignoring what people tell you so you have an excuse to keep bitching.
Maybe hearing yourself bitch is what this all really about.

Be careful. There are people over on the Standards board who've been stuck in bitch mode for several years. It's not pretty to watch.

 

[Anyacat]

Dear Fred:
Having off-loaded the ancient-mobile, I did, as you suggested, get XM (this is all very very new, you know), I think it was you who suggested it, and no, I am hardly a person of means (I think I actually own the left locking button). I'm not sure what I have gotten wrong as I have been told more than once that I am a useless demographic to radio programmers advertising agencies and manufacturers alike. I have lovely choices now that I am willing to pay for it, of course, the cost will go up and advertisement will creep in and then it will become like terrestrial radio and XM won't offer anything I want either, but given my dotage, I could be dead any minute (which is what precipitated the purchase of the little red car in the first place). Oh, wait, I get it, no comments unless I am wildly happy with the state of modern radio--modern radio is wonderful, things couldn't be better, way to go team...how's that?

 

[TheFonz]

yes, I do want that snazzy red convertible. I have the money to spend and what changed that made a car salesman assume that I wanted to grey fuddy-duddy car he was trying to push on me. You people give me the willies...

Go for it!!! I bought my wife a 2005 Thunderbird convertable Fifty Year Edition last year. We've been wanting a T-Bird since high school. Now we could finally afford it.

 

[Anyacat]

Dear Fonz: At last, someone with a sense of humor. But, ya know, I may have misspoke when I said I owned the left locking button, in truth I may only own one side of the ignition key! But, it's been a wonderful four days!