This is why stations should kill oldies

[deltas69]

i have a question..what if there were a sat station that did play spots...only spots from the same era as the music..IE: mr norms grand spaulding dodge,us 30 dragstrip,hai karate, coke spots with tommy boyce and bobby hart..etc..just bang them 2at a time every four or five songs along with jingles from the same era, wls,kcbq,cklw, wfun etc..of course run one of those to fast you can't understand disclaimers.. all for entertainment and you really can't buy a 70 'hemi cuda brand new..spots from every market that had monster rockers back in the 60's/70's..i've made some cd's for a few corporate types around nashville that went nuts when they heard them..total memory overload...just curious if it would be successful..along with a playlist of 4000 or so songs from that era..just curious :

 

[landtuna]

On satellite radio subscriptions.....my DirecTV subscription includes XM but after sampling it for several days I have never turned it on again. I am counted in their subscriber counts though. Wonder how many more 'subscribers' don't ever turn it on?

Deltas69,

I'd listen to your music mix! Based on comments made to me by fellow graduates of my high school recently there is a large number of us 55+ folks who still prefer Oldies (meaning late 50's, 60's and 70's). Maybe when the Boomers get retired in the next few years the number of target ads for items like Depends might drive the Oldies, eh?

 

[deltas69]

thanks for the reply..i admit the few who have listened to my format are radio people from that era, so when they hear an 80 minute cd of tight hits(whoa..there's a new format name !)..classic jingles and spots they are tripping back to our days in rock AM..but i can't help but think that the 40 to 55 demo would remember those old spots as well..couldn't overdo it..but the right mix of music/spots/jingles makes it sound like you just tuned into the twilight zone of radio. i will not accept the fact that people my age (57 yesterday) only remember 250 songs from that time period. i was on the air from 64 til 93 or so..and have a playlist long enough to run 8 days, 24/7..without repeating a song..and all are right out of the billboard top 100..another 500 classic spots and still adding plus a couple hundred jingles..makes for an entertaining 8 days..now i'm adding vintage newscasts to run at the top of the hour..

 

[Tom Wells]

I too am running a very similar format on my AM 1620 pt 15 station. I'm only up to 60-odd hours of music, jingles, and spots in automation.
I do play music from 1925 to present, but the list is thickest at 1966 and songs that sound like 1966.
There's also a good deal of eclectic and B-sides.
I estimate my reach at a few thousand in my very dense neighborhood.
A great deal of these people are immigrants, and would never have heard radio that sounds like this.
Then too, there are sure to be those who remember most or all of it.

I break almost every one of my own rules in this format.
The next podcast may find me cracking a mike, but I've never considered myself a good announcer. We'll see.

Delta, I have been waiting for your concept to run on radio for 20 years now, since that's about the time I first edited some
tapes in the same format, and why I now am building my own.
I'd really like to hear some of your collection.

Here are some samples of mine:

http://thomasjwells.podomatic.com/

 

[deltas69]

my collection is what top 40 stations played from 1963 through 1993..although i do go back as far as 55 and past 93 depending on my preferences..but primarialy that 30 year span. but where "oldie stations only play a 250/300 song playlist over and over to death..if you hear "help" today..you won't hear it again for several days..if i had a station to format, mornings would be 50/50 60's/70's , middays would be eighties/90's, back to harder edged hits from 3to 9..after nine more classic rock.and well known album cuts..friday nights would be kinda anything goes..maybe all live cuts,..or back to back albums from the same artists, or all one hit wonders...sat nights all party music..dance stuff..sunday night is blues night..i've learned from radio as well as being a professional muscian for 40 years, people want to hear different types of music at different times of the day..but the key is this..you have to have jocks that know what to play, and when to play it and understand how the listener is thinking..you can't have a 25 year old kid playing music almost older than him..he ain't got a clue..

 

[oldies76]

Tom Wells I do play music from 1925 to present, but the list is thickest at 1966 and songs that sound like 1966.
There's also a good deal of eclectic and B-sides.
I estimate my reach at a few thousand in my very dense neighborhood.

WOW, no kidding? 1925 onward!! By 2025..you'd be broadcasting 100 years of songs!!

Tell me..how do you do this?? A small low watt transmitter in your home?

My playlist would be the 1st 50 yrs of rock & roll (1955 - 2005), with emphasis from 1963 thru 1984, with incredible specialty weekends, like all #1's or all 70's or 60's..etc.. with very little, if any repetition throughout the week. Each weeks playlists would be totally different and mixed-up

 

[Tom Wells]

A 100 mw AM transmitter. My signal is all gone within 3-4 blocks, but that would include thousands.
Oh what I'd give for the FCC to permit one or ten watts with a real antenna.
One watt could be a workable service, but anything much over 2 or 3 will make a lot of consumer electronics unhappy.
And get in phones and everything else.

I couldn't stand having my playlist be all oldies, but I add any age music I like.
That's all the research besides the input of my wife and two daughters.
On the other hand, I can't imagine my "format" not including a huge musical spectrum of what I enjoy and oldies.

 

[amfmsw]

Tom, delta, 76...

You're gonna love this! http://www.rbr.com/radio/7017.html

 

[deltas69]

well that should send our resident knowitall d.e.over the edge..lol,,,of course everything in the artical will be explained as totaly wrong..by said xpurt :

 

[oldies76]

deltas69

well that should send our resident knowitall d.e.over the edge..lol,,,of course everything in the artical will be explained as totaly wrong..by said xpurt [/quote]

You're Darn right! What an article..This is what we've been saying for the last year it seems, but DE won't give in.

Don't worry delta...radio will change for the better soon than we think!

 

[kturnerga]

I think the issue with oldies is that stations haven't covered all the oldies. I wonder if they get a Time Life collection off late night TV and run it into the ground. Even if they get everything from 1910 Fruitgum Company to "Dead Skunk" there will be burnout issues. Some of the songs from any time period are turkeys.

Seventies and Eighties seem to be doing good if not great. Again if the playlist is expanded there will be fatigue. I am sure, personally, it will get me by for a while and many others won't tire as easily as if only 300 songs get aired.

Perhaps traditional radio entertainment- other than talk radio- has gone the way of CB radio. Country is still hanging on but how much teeny bop can we stand from Rascal Flatts? No, we will still have a few AM/FM entertainment stations. Those not dealing in talk will give us whatever matches the local demo and with a hodgepodge-type format. Even then it will be a source of background noise and not anything special to anyone.

TV went the same way with cable. The prime movers are drama/comedy and reality shows on the free-air stations. Such will happen with satellite; one source with enough different choices can make money by catering to niches. I dislike a monopoly, which is impending in sat radio. We may end up with an RCA-type arrangement where XM is the standard and others license it and provide programming.

 

[kirkiefan]

If an advertiser wants to reach my wife or I, they better be buying time on oldies stations.

Next year, nearly no advertiser who uses radio will want to reach you.

...yeah...with the exception of all the hucksters and all the other Snidely Whiplashes of the pre-apocalypse wantin' to make a fast buck off the folks my age in danger of bankruptcy and foreclosure!


DIZ IZ IT LIZABITH!...DIZ IZ DA BIG ONE!

 

[LibertyNT]

In Dallas, the oldies station is below a 10 share,

We have no Oldies in Dallas
Last one FLipped in 2006 92.1 KXEZ
98.7 KLUV has been Classic Hits Since 2002 or so.

 

[scooty430]

If an advertiser wants to reach my wife or I, they better be buying time on oldies stations.

Next year, nearly no advertiser who uses radio will want to reach you.

People in advertising and radio are basically using an outdated mode of thinking. The tone of the response above shows you just how closed-minded they are. It stems from fear: do what's always been done. If it fails, (which it so often does) you at least were going by the playbook.
You don't appear to be a loose cannon.

Stuff to think about:

- people are living longer
- boomers are large in number
- boomers don't want to "get old" in the same way their parents did
- older people keep buying new products and changing tastes
- older people are more in touch with popular culture than they get credit for
- getting a "return on investment" by thinking a 25 year old will be loyal to your product for years may not make as much sense as it used to. Products and companies change so quickly these days, it's likely the thing you're pitching will no longer be around! (Bought a Walkman, a Betamax, a VCR, an Eastern Airlines ticket, or an IBM computer lately?...)

 

[davideduardo]

Next year, nearly no advertiser who uses radio will want to reach you.

People in advertising and radio are basically using an outdated mode of thinking.

This is not an advertising or radio issue. It is one of the advertisers who are big enough to use ad agencies. They also have marketing departments, and know what the return on investment is in each sector, and spend hundreds of millions a year finding out who to target. 55+ generally has no or a negative ROI, so they don't target 55+. Simple.

The tone of the response above shows you just how closed-minded they are. It stems from fear: do what's always been done. If it fails, (which it so often does) you at least were going by the playbook.
You don't appear to be a loose cannon.

If the profit on a widget is a dollar a widget, and it takes two dollars of advertising on average to get 55+ to change the brand of widget they have used for 20 years, there is no sense trying.

Stuff to think about:

- people are living longer
- boomers are large in number
- boomers don't want to "get old" in the same way their parents did
- older people keep buying new products and changing tastes
- older people are more in touch with popular culture than they get credit for
- getting a "return on investment" by thinking a 25 year old will be loyal to your product for years may not make as much sense as it used to. Products and companies change so quickly these days, it's likely the thing you're pitching will no longer be around!

Companies like P&G spend, as I have said, hundreds of millions researching buying patterns. To say you "think" boomers are likely to be a good ad investment when companies that salivate for new markets don't go after them is pretentious.

(Bought a Walkman, a Betamax, a VCR, an Eastern Airlines ticket, or an IBM computer lately?...)

I bought an IBM Thinkpad a few months ago. It's made by Lenovo who licences the IBM name and IBM provides technical support, parts and supplies, etc. And I bought a DVD - VHS recorder last year to transfer tapes to DVD. What's your point?

 

[KFodor]

You know, I've argued the same points David's been arguing over and over and over on this issue.

Radio can't change anything...anything...if the advertisers who call the shots are convinced through their research that there's no return on investment targeting 55 and older listeners.

Now, in fairness to some of you, I'm 51. I read the AARP magazine I get in the mail. I agree that there is value there which, perhaps, certain catagories of advertisers may be missing. But until there is some moment of "A-Ha" on the point of those advertisers, nothing is going to change. Believe me, there are many radio salespeople who have taken those articles about the worthiness of baby boomers straight to the advertisers only to be told, "so...when are you guys gonna play 80's and 90's to get the younger people to listen?"

Does that mean some (or most) advertisers may miss the boat? Maybe.

I just wish some of you would stop blaming radio for what is not radio's doing.

Beautiful music is largely gone for the same reasons. Same, too for the rapid declines in Adult Standard formats. Oldies is right behind...with Classic Rock/Classic Hits next to go. And it's not that far off...

Radio is not the problem here. You can make a good case for advertising to boomers. For whatever reasons, valid or not, it's the advertisers who are turning a deaf ear to you.

 

[semoochie]

Classic Rock(at least where I live)has had the good sense to evolve so it probably won't happen unless we get to a point where there's no longer any Classic Rock that appeals to people under 55. Grunge was pretty popular in the 90s so I think we have a way to go yet.

 

[TheFonz]

I just wish some of you would stop blaming radio for what is not radio's doing.

Amen. For those who are unhappy, satellite radio is out there. And with the merger, ala carte programming will become available and affordable.

 

[palalwanabe]

listeners=ratings=advertisers.............55 plus is no exception...if you have one of the top 3 stations in your market, the advertisers wil be falling all over themselves to get to you, I gaurantee.

It is radio's fault that oldies stations are dying off, because they are all stagnant. I just looked up the top four markets and have I listed the highest Oldies/Classic hits station in that market
New York - #10
LA -#11
Chicago - #14
San Fran - #23

They are stagnant, because of the same sorry ass 800 numbers ones that these either lazy or ignorant or incompetent or all of the above, Program Directors and Consultants. We are tired of those same ragged out tunes and are wandering off to classic Rock and Classic country stations, or, anything other alternative, to get away from Wipeout and louie louie and Wolly Bully.........

To tell you the truth "I CAN"T GET NO SATISFACTION" from Oldies radio anymore, and yes i know those 800 songs tested well in North Carolina for play in Virginia and texas at 4:00 am or all those sorry statistics you consultants quote over and over, and your overstated "Advertisers don't care about 55 plus"......WHAT Advertisers DON"T CARE about is #14 and #20 and #12 rated stations, ......... so you PD's get of your asses and start earning your salary and start being CREATIVE, Think, think, think....... judas priest open that whitburn book that you've being using as a paper weight, and see what charted for the 4 tops after "I can't help Myself" and "It's The Same Old Song (Pun Intended)"...for christ sake play "Shake me Wake me"........God forbid that you would try "Just Ask The Lonely" it would take a miracle to hear "Still Water" and don't call these stiffs, the only stiffs in Oldies radio are the PD's and Consultants !!!.. Elvis Charted 153 songs and i bet i could ask every PD in America to name his 18 #1's they couldn't even do that, and yet, all they do is program only those 18 number ones (this of course is an exagerration, I'm trying to make a point). I Repeat PD's get off your asses and get these stations back up in the Top 3 and all of a sudden advertisers will be knocking. And there certainly are enough of us 55 plus out to make it real easy for you, yes we will do your job for you, if you provide the product ,meaning better stations, we can, and we will take you to the TOP. know, I guess I will be told for the 123,894 time, by every expert (especially by one in particular) how full of shit I am. One last time, advertisers don't want shit stations, 55 plus has nothing to do with it, it's the crappy numbers they turning a deaf ear to.

 

[davideduardo]

listeners=ratings=advertisers.............55 plus is no exception...if you have one of the top 3 stations in your market, the advertisers wil be falling all over themselves to get to you, I gaurantee.

Huh? in markets like you mention later in your post, a 12+ rank is meaningless. Almost all buys are in the 18 to 54 range, and there are essentially no buys for 55+ no matter what the ratings.

It is radio's fault that oldies stations are dying off, because they are all stagnant.

No, they appealed to over 55, which is why all that you name have moved from a 60s' core (Oldies) to a 70's core (Classic Hits) to lower the age appeal to ranges that advertisers actually buy.

I just looked up the top four markets and have I listed the highest Oldies/Classic hits station in that market
New York - #10
LA -#11
Chicago - #14
San Fran - #23

In 25-54, WCBS is 12th, 25-54. KRTH is 15th, WLS (only oldies among the group) is 18th. KFRC is 31st. Guess they need to play more 70's, don't they?

They are stagnant, because of the same sorry ass 800 numbers ones that these either lazy or ignorant or incompetent or all of the above Program Directors and Consultants, play. we are tired of those same ragged out tunes and wandering off to classic Rock and Classic country and anything other alternative to get away from Wipeout and louie louie and Wolly Bully.........

Those are all 60's songs. They appeal to over 55's and stations are moving away from this if they have not already.

To tell you the truth "I CAN"T GET NO SATISFACTION" from Oldies radio anymore, and yes i know those 800 songs tested well in North Carolina for play in Virginia and texas at 4:00 am or all those sorry statistics.

In the larger US markets, the songs are tested locally for local play. It's just that the 60's stuff is not relevant to sales demos any more.

and your overstated "Advertisers don't care about 55 plus"......

Actually, since there are pretty much no ad agency buys for 55+, the fact is there for you to accept. Advertisers, as a rule with rare exceptions, do not buy 55+ on radio.

Advertisers don't care about #14 and #20 and #12 rated stations, is WHAT they don't care about...........

Actually, I can think about many #12 stations (or in that vicinity) in 12+ that are actually major forces in a sales demo, such as 21-34 men, where almost all the beer money is spent. Advertisers care about rank in the demos their clients have specified, none of which are 55+.

so you PD's get of your ass and start earning your salary and start being CREATIVE, Think, think, think....... judas priest open that whitburn book that you've being using as a paper weight, and see what charted for the 4 tops after "I can't help Myself" and "It's The Same Old Song (Pun Intended)"...for christ sake play "Shake me Wake me"........God forbid that you would try "Just Ask The Lonely" it would take a miracle to hear "Still Water" and don't call these stiffs, the only stiffs in Oldies radio are the PD's and Consultants !!!.. Elvis Charted 153 songs and i bet i could ask every PD in America to name his 18 #1's thay couldn't do that,

Irrespecitve of the fact that the songs you suggest don't test against the stations' own listeners, and that few stations play much 60's anymore, anyway, our job is to play songs people like today. I don't care how a song charted (giggle, giggle, wink, wink... those charts are so fake it is laughable), we are not running museums, but radio stations. Most songs that, gag, charted, are not likeable today.

and yet, all they do is program only those 18 number ones (this of course is an exagerration, I'm trying to make a point). I Repeat PD's get off your asses and get these stations back up in the Top 3 and all of a sudden advertisers will be knocking.

Advertisers don't call stations. And a 60's oldies station will not be saleble even by the best sellers.

And there certainly are enough of us 55 plus out to make it real easy for you, yes we will do your job for you, if you provide the product ,meaning better stations, we can, and we will take you to the TOP.

Not in 18-54 you won't. An unless you are in a smaller market where all the business is direct, and certainly not in the markets you mention, can you make money with oldies based on the 60's songs.

know I guess I will be told for the 123,894 time by every expert (especially by one in particular) how full of shit I am. One last time advertisers don't want shit stations, 55 plus has nothing to do with it, it's the crappy numbers.

Tant all you want... go bay at the moon. There is no market for 55+ in the larger rated markets. None.