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This Jack thing should get a chance...

B

bw

We have been conditioned that each demo is supposed to like a certain type of music from a certain time period, and thats it. Thats how stations get programmed; we all know that. But, in reality, each of us grew up listening to music - whether with 8 track tapes, LP, Cassettes or CD's, or on the radio. So we are familiar with and have enjoyed the music at that time. Right? As time progresses, we haven't heard all the stuff we grew up with. Maybe bits and pieces - we especially didn't hear it mixed with other 'decades' leading to now.

I like the idea that their is a larger number of songs in the Jack library. And, I like even more that it includes different decades. These are hits from the past, that stations played back then - and got ratings with. While, being a radio guy, I'm sensitive to transitions between elements, I'm curious to see how this variety truly plays out. I'm sure there will be adjustments, but I hope even more these stations will be committed to making it work.

BTW, one reason I enjoy satellite radio is because I can jump around to different time periods or types of music. Sometimes I'll listen to the 70's, and then when I've gotten tired of that, (or when too many sappy songs play, whichever comes first) I go to 80' or 90's, Country or even current music. My demo didn't change. The number one reason I change stations is because a song comes on that I dislike because I'm 'sick of it', due to overplay. I don't tune out if a song I like is coming up - I'll listen through the 8 minute stop set on WNEW if they say they are going to play something I'd like to hear.

So, lets give this Jack thing a chance. It's a dramatic change to how radio has been programmed of late. I do not see the existing chr or urban formats going away - young demo's don't know anything much older. But for us folk into their 30's and 40's, this should be welcomed. Enjoy!
 
> We have been conditioned that each demo is supposed to like
> a certain type of music from a certain time period, and
> thats it. Thats how stations get programmed; we all know
> that. But, in reality, each of us grew up listening to
> music - whether with 8 track tapes, LP, Cassettes or CD's,
> or on the radio. So we are familiar with and have enjoyed
> the music at that time. Right? As time progresses, we
> haven't heard all the stuff we grew up with. Maybe bits and
> pieces - we especially didn't hear it mixed with other
> 'decades' leading to now.
>
> I like the idea that their is a larger number of songs in
> the Jack library. And, I like even more that it includes
> different decades. These are hits from the past, that
> stations played back then - and got ratings with. While,
> being a radio guy, I'm sensitive to transitions between
> elements, I'm curious to see how this variety truly plays
> out. I'm sure there will be adjustments, but I hope even
> more these stations will be committed to making it work.
>
> BTW, one reason I enjoy satellite radio is because I can
> jump around to different time periods or types of music.
> Sometimes I'll listen to the 70's, and then when I've gotten
> tired of that, (or when too many sappy songs play, whichever
> comes first) I go to 80' or 90's, Country or even current
> music. My demo didn't change. The number one reason I change
> stations is because a song comes on that I dislike because
> I'm 'sick of it', due to overplay. I don't tune out if a
> song I like is coming up - I'll listen through the 8 minute
> stop set on WNEW if they say they are going to play
> something I'd like to hear.
>
> So, lets give this Jack thing a chance. It's a dramatic
> change to how radio has been programmed of late. I do not
> see the existing chr or urban formats going away - young
> demo's don't know anything much older. But for us folk into
> their 30's and 40's, this should be welcomed. Enjoy!
>

You make a lot of excellent points. I talked to my mother last night and told her about the format switch. I told her about "Jack" and she said she would enjoy that type of station. She is in the target demo too. But, she said something pretty smart and this comes from a normal listener's point of few; she said that she thinks it won't last too long because that there may be a song she likes, but then one she won't like and change the station. "Jack" may not be able to get a lot of loyal listeners. I am sure it will do well in the first few books, but after that, who knows. I will give Jack a chance and it is fresh and different, but I will never have my CBS FM again. :(<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin</P>
 
Iam sure the JACK format will last because KJAC (JACK-FM) here in Denver has been doing that format for a year now and I think it has been doing pretty good.
 
You're right, it should get a chance...
but on 102.7.
 
My fellow moderator hit it right on the head...

Give it a chance. Of course, there will be outrage from the former CBS-FM listeners; Infinity knew that going into the door. At the same time, Infinity is banking on this as the "future" of the oldies format. Heck, we've all seen how companies have even worked the word "oldies" out of their oldies stations - "greatest hits", etc. Jack is "greatest hits, infinity". Plus a few currents. I can imagine anyone who hears "the same songs" on Jack likely had been glued to the radio all weekend long checking it out. The purpose of "variety" is less repeats. I'll cut them some slacks if they wish to repeat the currents like Gavin DeGraw a little more often, but this radio concept needs time to grow. And time will tell if Jack is the future.

And this does not mean we should boycott all CBS properties (Channel 2, etc.) They're a huge corporation and such a protest would be falling on deaf ears.<P ID="signature">______________


New York City Radio and TV</P>
 
Re: My fellow moderator hit it right on the head...

Give it a chance? For what? It's a short term fix. To not call it what it is means you have no spine. Go on a limb, be on record and make a call. It's stupid, it's a 2 year format that will bill less than what it's predecessors have. It's a joke. The corporate clowns always talk about what a good move they're making to justify blowing up a station with quality billing for one with no track record. This format will not bill what the one it's replacing did. What these corps. don't understand is there's only so much money you CAN bill. It's not like McDonalds' where you can just open more stores. That was the whole reason behind the de-reg lobbying efforts. If they could get the limit raised on how many stations they could own they could "open more stores" and make more money, be able to grow revenues. But when you reach your max on the amount of stores you can open you're going to have a problem and start reaching for straws to figure out ways to increase revenue quarter after quarter. You'll notice they're never wrong in their moves. At shareholders meetings, they never tell anyone that the moves they've made in the past have cost them dearly. Ignoring technologies advances, 20 minute stop sets etc. When Krispy Kreme ignored the low carb thing they got sued by shareholders because shareholders felt that the company didn't adequately provide those details. In radio, they just keep flubbing it up. Chugging head first into a wall. You can only cut your costs by so much and say you had better earnings in a quarter. Eventually you reach critical mass and start doing silly things like this. Jack is a niche format. Very niched. Perhaps more than dance because it's trying to be everything to everyone and we know what happens when a radio station tries to do that don't we. It's radio using catch-phrase terms of the day like "shuffle", "we play anything", "playing what we want" to relate to people. Those terms eventually get overplayed, as the term "cyber" did and it becomes passe'. Then what? Ooops, didn't think that far ahead did they? They'll justify it to their analysts who are all cozy with them, justify to the shareholders, the MAJORITY who are mutual funds who are all cozy with the and the industry will sink until they get their heads out of the sand. The problem is a radio station with no focus playing what it thinks every single person at any one time wants only wears people out after a while and they're going to go back to where they came from. If people want their music on shuffle they have their own IPOD for that and chances are that IPOD has music on it that none of the "Jack" off stations would have - or damn little of it. Jack is nice idea for smaller markets but in a major market where people have been conditioned for years to know where to go for a certain style of music, it's a risky move, very risky and according to these companies they avoid the untried, the untrue, the risk unless they can spin their research to justify their move - no matter what reality is they'll create their own to justify their version of it so they keep their butts covered.

> Give it a chance. Of course, there will be outrage from the
> former CBS-FM listeners; Infinity knew that going into the
> door. At the same time, Infinity is banking on this as the
> "future" of the oldies format. Heck, we've all seen how
> companies have even worked the word "oldies" out of their
> oldies stations - "greatest hits", etc. Jack is "greatest
> hits, infinity". Plus a few currents. I can imagine anyone
> who hears "the same songs" on Jack likely had been glued to
> the radio all weekend long checking it out. The purpose of
> "variety" is less repeats. I'll cut them some slacks if they
> wish to repeat the currents like Gavin DeGraw a little more
> often, but this radio concept needs time to grow. And time
> will tell if Jack is the future.
>
> And this does not mean we should boycott all CBS properties
> (Channel 2, etc.) They're a huge corporation and such a
> protest would be falling on deaf ears.
>
 
Once again, wait and see... (A must read)

It's hard to base one brand-new format on the fate of a completely different, dead-and-gone format. Sure, it's not focused. But it's successful in markets like Dallas, otherwise Infinity would not have been running the gamut with this format. But once again, this comes to mind: "This is New York." New York is a tough crowd, and a different radio market of its own. It lost country, it lost standards, and now lost oldies. Why? Because of difficulties in selling the format, be it demographic-wise, or money-wise, be it short-term, or long-term. Realize that we are smack-dab in the evolution of radio, and "Jack" is the third or fourth guy in the middle of that famous "caveman" photo, to make a comparison. It's the next generation. While the older generation didn't deserve the treatment it got this weekend, Infinity was making future plans based on the fact that they would not be involved in them.

"Jack" may very well be trying to compete with the satellite radio user, who has a variety of formats at the ready. Or they could be competing with the iPod user, seeing as it is a hot seller these days. But the format was successful in one market, so they think this will stand the test of time. Then again, you could be right... I'm trying to remember, what was the first market that Jammin' Oldies did well, wasn't it... Dallas? The same market that Jack hit it big first? Could history be repeating itself? All I can say is... give it time.<P ID="signature">______________


New York City Radio and TV</P>
 
Re: Once again, wait and see... (A must read)

Let's make something very clear. Jammin' Oldies was killed it didn't die. When CCU purchased AMFM it was saddled with many URBAN stations. Jammin' Oldies would've been a great idea for anyone BUT CCU because the format clashed with it's portfolio of URBANs. Jammin 'Oldies wasn't allowed to grow into anything because of the in-fighting in the MAJOR markets. It had nothing to do with the viability of the format. The format was purposely starved to death so it could die and then flip to whatever CCU wanted it to. In Chicago, they wanted their Kiss brand so 103.5, after one year of billing spit then 22 million (as J.O.) was dumped for Kiss, five years ago, and billing about 15 million only because it's part of clear channel's fisting method of getting advertisers.

I say you're right, give it a year and then see how stupid this entire [lack of] format truly is.

> It's hard to base one brand-new format on the fate of a
> completely different, dead-and-gone format. Sure, it's not
> focused. But it's successful in markets like Dallas,
> otherwise Infinity would not have been running the gamut
> with this format. But once again, this comes to mind: "This
> is New York." New York is a tough crowd, and a different
> radio market of its own. It lost country, it lost standards,
> and now lost oldies. Why? Because of difficulties in selling
> the format, be it demographic-wise, or money-wise, be it
> short-term, or long-term. Realize that we are smack-dab in
> the evolution of radio, and "Jack" is the third or fourth
> guy in the middle of that famous "caveman" photo, to make a
> comparison. It's the next generation. While the older
> generation didn't deserve the treatment it got this weekend,
> Infinity was making future plans based on the fact that they
> would not be involved in them.
>
> "Jack" may very well be trying to compete with the satellite
> radio user, who has a variety of formats at the ready. Or
> they could be competing with the iPod user, seeing as it is
> a hot seller these days. But the format was successful in
> one market, so they think this will stand the test of time.
> Then again, you could be right... I'm trying to remember,
> what was the first market that Jammin' Oldies did well,
> wasn't it... Dallas? The same market that Jack hit it big
> first? Could history be repeating itself? All I can say
> is... give it time.
>
 
Re: Once again, wait and see... (A must read)

Bob-Fm is the number one station here in Austin, Texas. It started in August. I think there is also a number one Bob-FM in Norfork, VA.

But Bob-FM plays different music from Jack-101.1. Mostly seventies and eighties. I think about 20% may be from 1990's and 1960's combined. We still have Jammin' here to at 105.9 FM.

I listen to Bob but I would not listen to Jack 101.1 very long because I don't like much of the music played.

I understand how variety took off. It was in Canada where there are about 60% of the stations in a similar sized market. I read that Toronto has the same number of stations as Orlando. With much less choice variety will attract more listeners.

I expect variety to have mixed results in this country. Some stations will thrive, some will be in the middle of the pack and others will fail.

> It's hard to base one brand-new format on the fate of a
> completely different, dead-and-gone format. Sure, it's not
> focused. But it's successful in markets like Dallas,
> otherwise Infinity would not have been running the gamut
> with this format. But once again, this comes to mind: "This
> is New York." New York is a tough crowd, and a different
> radio market of its own. It lost country, it lost standards,
> and now lost oldies. Why? Because of difficulties in selling
> the format, be it demographic-wise, or money-wise, be it
> short-term, or long-term. Realize that we are smack-dab in
> the evolution of radio, and "Jack" is the third or fourth
> guy in the middle of that famous "caveman" photo, to make a
> comparison. It's the next generation. While the older
> generation didn't deserve the treatment it got this weekend,
> Infinity was making future plans based on the fact that they
> would not be involved in them.
>
> "Jack" may very well be trying to compete with the satellite
> radio user, who has a variety of formats at the ready. Or
> they could be competing with the iPod user, seeing as it is
> a hot seller these days. But the format was successful in
> one market, so they think this will stand the test of time.
> Then again, you could be right... I'm trying to remember,
> what was the first market that Jammin' Oldies did well,
> wasn't it... Dallas? The same market that Jack hit it big
> first? Could history be repeating itself? All I can say
> is... give it time.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
> We have been conditioned that each demo is supposed to like
> a certain type of music from a certain time period, and
> thats it. Thats how stations get programmed; we all know
> that. But, in reality, each of us grew up listening to
> music - whether with 8 track tapes, LP, Cassettes or CD's,
> or on the radio. So we are familiar with and have enjoyed
> the music at that time. Right? As time progresses, we
> haven't heard all the stuff we grew up with. Maybe bits and
> pieces - we especially didn't hear it mixed with other
> 'decades' leading to now.
>
> I like the idea that their is a larger number of songs in
> the Jack library. And, I like even more that it includes
> different decades. These are hits from the past, that
> stations played back then - and got ratings with. While,
> being a radio guy, I'm sensitive to transitions between
> elements, I'm curious to see how this variety truly plays
> out. I'm sure there will be adjustments, but I hope even
> more these stations will be committed to making it work.
>
> BTW, one reason I enjoy satellite radio is because I can
> jump around to different time periods or types of music.
> Sometimes I'll listen to the 70's, and then when I've gotten
> tired of that, (or when too many sappy songs play, whichever
> comes first) I go to 80' or 90's, Country or even current
> music. My demo didn't change. The number one reason I change
> stations is because a song comes on that I dislike because
> I'm 'sick of it', due to overplay. I don't tune out if a
> song I like is coming up - I'll listen through the 8 minute
> stop set on WNEW if they say they are going to play
> something I'd like to hear.
>
> So, lets give this Jack thing a chance. It's a dramatic
> change to how radio has been programmed of late. I do not
> see the existing chr or urban formats going away - young
> demo's don't know anything much older. But for us folk into
> their 30's and 40's, this should be welcomed. Enjoy!
>

I agree completely. And yes, I know it probably won't last, and that makes me sad. Taking out one of the greats like WNEW-FM, CBS-FM (as it was, before all the tweaking), or even WLIR, and replacing it with something else that might fail is worse than replacing it with something that'll succeed.

I would love to see this Jack format succeed, if only to hear the old alternative music again. I was sad when I realized I wouldn't be hearing Cousin Brucie tonight, but what CBS-FM had been doing was getting ridiculous. Let "Mix" have the disco, I don't care anymore. When I heard The Beatles played back-to-back with Billy Idol, I knew that as long as this Jack station lasts, I'll be enjoying it, and that is a very rare thing for me to say about FM radio anymore.<P ID="signature">______________
...in my day, you could tell the stations apart by the music they played!</P>
 
> > We have been conditioned that each demo is supposed to
> like
> > a certain type of music from a certain time period, and
> > thats it. Thats how stations get programmed; we all know
> > that. But, in reality, each of us grew up listening to
> > music - whether with 8 track tapes, LP, Cassettes or CD's,
>
> > or on the radio. So we are familiar with and have enjoyed
>
> > the music at that time. Right? As time progresses, we
> > haven't heard all the stuff we grew up with. Maybe bits
> and
> > pieces - we especially didn't hear it mixed with other
> > 'decades' leading to now.
> >
> > I like the idea that their is a larger number of songs in
> > the Jack library. And, I like even more that it includes
> > different decades. These are hits from the past, that
> > stations played back then - and got ratings with. While,
> > being a radio guy, I'm sensitive to transitions between
> > elements, I'm curious to see how this variety truly plays
> > out. I'm sure there will be adjustments, but I hope even
> > more these stations will be committed to making it work.
>
> >
> > BTW, one reason I enjoy satellite radio is because I can
> > jump around to different time periods or types of music.
> > Sometimes I'll listen to the 70's, and then when I've
> gotten
> > tired of that, (or when too many sappy songs play,
> whichever
> > comes first) I go to 80' or 90's, Country or even current
> > music. My demo didn't change. The number one reason I
> change
> > stations is because a song comes on that I dislike because
>
> > I'm 'sick of it', due to overplay. I don't tune out if a
> > song I like is coming up - I'll listen through the 8
> minute
> > stop set on WNEW if they say they are going to play
> > something I'd like to hear.
> >
> > So, lets give this Jack thing a chance. It's a dramatic
> > change to how radio has been programmed of late. I do not
>
> > see the existing chr or urban formats going away - young
> > demo's don't know anything much older. But for us folk
> into
> > their 30's and 40's, this should be welcomed. Enjoy!
> >
>
> I agree completely. And yes, I know it probably won't last,
> and that makes me sad. Taking out one of the greats like
> WNEW-FM, CBS-FM (as it was, before all the tweaking), or
> even WLIR, and replacing it with something else that might
> fail is worse than replacing it with something that'll
> succeed.
>
> I would love to see this Jack format succeed, if only to
> hear the old alternative music again. I was sad when I
> realized I wouldn't be hearing Cousin Brucie tonight, but
> what CBS-FM had been doing was getting ridiculous. Let
> "Mix" have the disco, I don't care anymore. When I heard
> The Beatles played back-to-back with Billy Idol, I knew that
> as long as this Jack station lasts, I'll be enjoying it, and
> that is a very rare thing for me to say about FM radio
> anymore.
>
I've just spent the last hour and a half listening to the original Jack-FM on the internet from of all places New York and the music they're playing is totally different from the music that is playing on the new CBS Jack-FM which is very rock leaning. I also have not heard one Beatle song. I did just hear
John Lennons "Nobody Told Me" that was nice because it is a song that I really like that I've not heard on any radio station since I last played it on a station I once worked for back in the eighties. And isn't this interesting! This Jack-FM a Buzznet Media Station takes requests via e-mail! So what the hell is the broadcast stations around the country doing the format problem with
taking requests for ones favorite song or group? Oh! I know!!!!!! That would take away too much money from the bottom line to pay somebody to read the e-mails and put the song on the air. The whole concept of telling listeners to
not tell us what to play is totally lame and stupid. Radio is losing it more and more every day! One more thing, New York didn't need another "Rock Station"
not at all!!!

How many of you have heard of Toad The Wet Sprocket "Come Down" ?
 
> > > We have been conditioned that each demo is supposed to
> > > like
> > > a certain type of music from a certain time period, and
> > > thats it. Thats how stations get programmed; we all know
>
> > > that. But, in reality, each of us grew up listening to
> > > music - whether with 8 track tapes, LP, Cassettes or
> CD's,
> >
> > > or on the radio. So we are familiar with and have
> enjoyed
> >
> > > the music at that time. Right? As time progresses, we
> > > haven't heard all the stuff we grew up with. Maybe bits
>
> > and
> > > pieces - we especially didn't hear it mixed with other
> > > 'decades' leading to now.
> > >
> > > I like the idea that their is a larger number of songs
> in
> > > the Jack library. And, I like even more that it includes
>
> > > different decades. These are hits from the past, that
> > > stations played back then - and got ratings with. While,
>
> > > being a radio guy, I'm sensitive to transitions between
> > > elements, I'm curious to see how this variety truly
> plays
> > > out. I'm sure there will be adjustments, but I hope
> even
> > > more these stations will be committed to making it work.
>
> >
> > >
> > > BTW, one reason I enjoy satellite radio is because I can
>
> > > jump around to different time periods or types of music.
>
> > > Sometimes I'll listen to the 70's, and then when I've
> > gotten
> > > tired of that, (or when too many sappy songs play,
> > whichever
> > > comes first) I go to 80' or 90's, Country or even
> current
> > > music. My demo didn't change. The number one reason I
> > change
> > > stations is because a song comes on that I dislike
> because
> >
> > > I'm 'sick of it', due to overplay. I don't tune out if
> a
> > > song I like is coming up - I'll listen through the 8
> > minute
> > > stop set on WNEW if they say they are going to play
> > > something I'd like to hear.
> > >
> > > So, lets give this Jack thing a chance. It's a dramatic
>
> > > change to how radio has been programmed of late. I do
> not
> >
> > > see the existing chr or urban formats going away - young
>
> > > demo's don't know anything much older. But for us folk
> > into
> > > their 30's and 40's, this should be welcomed. Enjoy!
> > >
> >
> > I agree completely. And yes, I know it probably won't
> last,
> > and that makes me sad. Taking out one of the greats like
> > WNEW-FM, CBS-FM (as it was, before all the tweaking), or
> > even WLIR, and replacing it with something else that might
>
> > fail is worse than replacing it with something that'll
> > succeed.
> >
> > I would love to see this Jack format succeed, if only to
> > hear the old alternative music again. I was sad when I
> > realized I wouldn't be hearing Cousin Brucie tonight, but
> > what CBS-FM had been doing was getting ridiculous. Let
> > "Mix" have the disco, I don't care anymore. When I heard
> > The Beatles played back-to-back with Billy Idol, I knew
> that
> > as long as this Jack station lasts, I'll be enjoying it,
> and
> > that is a very rare thing for me to say about FM radio
> > anymore.
> >
> I've just spent the last hour and a half listening to the
> original Jack-FM on the internet from of all places New York
> and the music they're playing is totally different from the
> music that is playing on the new CBS Jack-FM which is very
> rock leaning. I also have not heard one Beatle song. I did
> just hear
> John Lennons "Nobody Told Me" that was nice because it is a
> song that I really like that I've not heard on any radio
> station since I last played it on a station I once worked
> for back in the eighties.

Going by Yes.Com's playlist, they have yet to repeat a song. Early this morning I heard Got To Get You Into My Life and Can't Buy Me Love.

> The whole concept of telling listeners to
> not tell us what to play is totally lame and stupid. Radio
> is losing it more and more every day!

Yeah, but since when do the big stations really play requests?

> One more thing, New York didn't need another "Rock Station" not at all!!!

It's better than another disco station, and ten times better than another urban, hurban or top 40 station.

> How many of you have heard of Toad The Wet Sprocket "Come
> Down" ?

There is me, and I guess whoever else listened to WLIR in the '90s. Toad's not that obscure. Granted, neither was a lot of the music "Jack" is playing in its day.<P ID="signature">______________
...in my day, you could tell the stations apart by the music they played!</P>
 
> Going by Yes.Com's playlist, they have yet to repeat a song.
> Early this morning I heard Got To Get You Into My Life and
> Can't Buy Me Love.

As far as overall songs being repeated, I heard the first same-day repeat: KC and the Sunshine Band's "Get Down Tonight".

At least it isn't Britney Spears...<P ID="signature">______________


New York City Radio and TV</P>
 
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