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THIS MARKET BLOWS!

Long Island has too many radio stations out East. No giant AM station. Can you make a living working at WBLI or WALK-FM?

How do the WLNG jocks make it? Expensive place to live. How much $$$ can you make at WLNG? Do radio sales job and jock shift at 92.1?

I think Long Island had some good radio back in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. WGSM was solid in the Huntington area back in the day. Had a great sound. WNYG was a classic! The stories that would come from 1440.

I never listened to WRCN when it was Top 40. Wish I did. I still miss the sound of WLNG when Paul Sidney did his PARTYLINE in PM DRIVE. Play 1/2 the record, put a listener on the air. Next caller wins a CARVEL ice cream cake.

The market ain't the same.
 
One of the worst markets easily. No more Radio X, no more LIR - instead there's tons of Top 40 and AC stations and the most pitiful excuse for a rock station I've ever heard in my life (WBAB). IMO, with the exception of 92.7 if I'm in the mood for Regional Mexican (it's a nice change-up from the status quo), there's not a single station on LI that I waste my time with.
 
Exactly.

There are only a few gems out there. The rest of the stations are awful. There are good people working in bad places (Frank Brinka, Chris Simmons) and some good places to be (WRIV, WLNG) and volunteer (WSHR, WXBA), but there are just some bad places (Barnstable West, Cox).

What makes it sad for me is WNYG. What a joke. To see what it has become makes me wish Multicultural had pulled the plug and put the thing out of its misery. It's not even a good Christian Contemporary station. It's a jukebox for the GM for what she wants to hear. All she does is sit and listen to the station all day in her office (when she gets there at 11am or noon). If she hears the #1 song too often, she decides to take it off. No matter that the average 2 listeners to the station spend maybe 15 minutes TSL (if they can pick up the station that long). The whole station is a joke. It should be a gospel station, R&B during the week and gospel on the weekend. That would kick ass! But no, lets play music that appeals to a midwest audience on Long Island in an area that has a minority population! Smart. What makes it worse is that the GM used to work at the OLD WNYG. Back in the day when we were all playing oldies and making interesting radio. If I said we would have WNYG with Ed Newlands, Jim Pierce, and Phyllis Rose (the GM) in 2008, what would we be doing? I would say making decent money and making good radio. Missed that mark.

More sad stories... the promise of WLIE/WLUX and the history of what was once the great WGSM. All of these stations have been virtually destroyed by special interests.

Long Island radio was alive 15 years ago. I think the death started when Liberty took WBAB and things started to fall apart on the scene from there. I know some people who were involved with the Liberty fiasco. This was about the same time that WALK stopped the full service slant, WNYG went spanish, WGSM ended Adult Standards and WMJC started simulcasting WRCN (and never saw the numbers on 94.3 again they saw under Jack Kratoville's Magic 94.3, one of the best sounding AC stations I ever heard). This was around 1994. Two years later we had Telecom 96.
 
WGLI, don't you think that KJOY is a pretty effective station for Long Island in their format? Look at what they have. They've got a respectable morning show with Jim and Kim in the morning complete with Bernie Veder doing traffic and Doppler Dave Maddox doing up-to-date weather reports. At 12 noon they have the lunch-time
cafe with Jodi Vale taking songs by request. At 5 they have John Tesh handling PM drive with music and interesting information, along with Bill Edwards at 5:30 doing the drive at five trivia. Plus at night after 7 when most stations no longer have traffic reports, KJOY throughout the night after 7 during John Tesh still has intermittent updates from the KJOY traffic center with some guy Gene Michaels. Plus on Saturdays KJOY has far and away the best dance party show with Party Marty who takes phone calls and plays dance music by request.
Granted KJOY is one of those AC stations Soulcrusher complains about but within it's format KJOY appears to be doing well for itself with the music, up-to-date service information and put together a strong roster of Long Island talent with Jim and Kim, Party Marty Mitchell, and John Tesh. It's probably too soon to ring the death of Long Island Radio when you've got people like Jim and Kim and Tesh working to provide good entertainment.
 
Long Island is pretty unique in that it's a unified market, but almost none of its radio stations cover the entire market, while large portions of it are covered by stations from other markets. This seems to drive listenership down, and stations end up running stations on the cheap. Long Island, if you think about it, really behaves more like market #100 or worse, than #18 or whatever it is currently.
 
neo11 said:
Long Island is pretty unique in that it's a unified market, but almost none of its radio stations cover the entire market, while large portions of it are covered by stations from other markets. This seems to drive listenership down, and stations end up running stations on the cheap. Long Island, if you think about it, really behaves more like market #100 or worse, than #18 or whatever it is currently.

actually east of Soffolk it's market 263 or 262 either way it's well up in the 200's
 
Yes. 540 WLIE sux with their Russian? language format. It's one of two Long Island AM stations that blast into CT where I live. Personally I like WNYG aka The Spirit of NY. As for 740, the other Long Island Station that blasts into CT where I live, the music mix is interesting and I like it. So do a couple of my friends. Of course it would be better if the music wasn't interrupted for colon cleanse infomercials.
 
wgliradio said:
Exactly.

There are only a few gems out there. The rest of the stations are awful. There are good people working in bad places (Frank Brinka, Chris Simmons) and some good places to be (WRIV, WLNG) and volunteer (WSHR, WXBA), but there are just some bad places (Barnstable West, Cox).

What makes it sad for me is WNYG. What a joke. To see what it has become makes me wish Multicultural had pulled the plug and put the thing out of its misery. It's not even a good Christian Contemporary station. It's a jukebox for the GM for what she wants to hear. All she does is sit and listen to the station all day in her office (when she gets there at 11am or noon). If she hears the #1 song too often, she decides to take it off. No matter that the average 2 listeners to the station spend maybe 15 minutes TSL (if they can pick up the station that long). The whole station is a joke. It should be a gospel station, R&B during the week and gospel on the weekend. That would kick ass! But no, lets play music that appeals to a midwest audience on Long Island in an area that has a minority population! Smart. What makes it worse is that the GM used to work at the OLD WNYG. Back in the day when we were all playing oldies and making interesting radio. If I said we would have WNYG with Ed Newlands, Jim Pierce, and Phyllis Rose (the GM) in 2008, what would we be doing? I would say making decent money and making good radio. Missed that mark.

More sad stories... the promise of WLIE/WLUX and the history of what was once the great WGSM. All of these stations have been virtually destroyed by special interests.

Long Island radio was alive 15 years ago. I think the death started when Liberty took WBAB and things started to fall apart on the scene from there. I know some people who were involved with the Liberty fiasco. This was about the same time that WALK stopped the full service slant, WNYG went spanish, WGSM ended Adult Standards and WMJC started simulcasting WRCN (and never saw the numbers on 94.3 again they saw under Jack Kratoville's Magic 94.3, one of the best sounding AC stations I ever heard). This was around 1994. Two years later we had Telecom 96.

Nice post. I enjoyed Jack Kratoville's work when he was PD & morning man at WWHB HB-107. A quality morning show. Never had the chance to hear Jack at WLNG. I believe he got his start at WLNG. When I met with Eddie Simon (Paul's brother) to be their PD, I wanted that gig. I was shocked at their low ball offer.

This market rejected a young Howard Stern and Stern had to go to Westchester.
 
It's a sad fact that this major market cannot pay employees living wages. Salesmen and a few of the programmers are the only ones making enough to afford an "average" lifestyle, such as a house, car, etc. while jocks, production and promotions staffers must either have a spouse with a superior salary, or are living at home with parents or family.

I can say that salaries here in Market 1 are dropping too, so I can only imagine where the pay level's at in Nassau/ Suffolk. (It probably doesn't help that almost none of these stations are unionized, not that the union's helping all that much anymore.) Without revealing their identities, I can tell you that my friends and acquaintances are all multi-tasking, handling multiple responsibilities, with some making less than 35K. Most starting salaries run between 16-23K, while many experienced personalities, who have families, are making under 40K. Part-time jocks are making $8-$9 an hour. Worst of all, with the economy sinking, many of the remotes that once made a low salary liveable have gone away, from retail to the nightclubs, so that padding is also fading from the picture.

A decent house on the Island runs 250-300K, so there's almost no way those in the business are making a living solely off one salary, with one job, and are able to thrive on the island. What happens next is that those who choose to work in radio, much as many young 20-somethings and 30-somethings from several fields have been doing, are forced to leave for jobs down south and outside the tri-state area. At the same time, the young talent that is still interested in radio is frightened off by the shrinking rates, thereby leaving a talent pool that is often lacking. Whereas once overnight jocks were somewhat experienced, hoping to earn better dayparted shifts, you now have voicetracking on the overnights, with subs who have little to no experience now learning while filling in during more vital hours.

Meanwhile, superior signals boom in from New York City, CT, upstate and even NJ along the south shore, giving listeners other choices beside local ones. Long Island is also a very technologically-savvy area, so all the other media, like iPods, satellite, HD radio, etc. all come into play (ironically both Howard Stern and O&A count the Island as a major territory, being they are from there, so satellite does very nicely.) Although I can't officially speak for other markets, I feel confident in declaring that Market #18 is one of the worst markets to work in anywhere in the nation.

However, if you do succeed at WBLI, WBAB or WALK, at least you know you're talking to hundreds of thousands of people, if that's any solace. ;D
 
LIradiofan226 said:
WGLI, don't you think that KJOY is a pretty effective station for Long Island in their format? Look at what they have. They've got a respectable morning show with Jim and Kim in the morning complete with Bernie Veder doing traffic and Doppler Dave Maddox doing up-to-date weather reports. At 12 noon they have the lunch-time
cafe with Jodi Vale taking songs by request. At 5 they have John Tesh handling PM drive with music and interesting information, along with Bill Edwards at 5:30 doing the drive at five trivia. Plus at night after 7 when most stations no longer have traffic reports, KJOY throughout the night after 7 during John Tesh still has intermittent updates from the KJOY traffic center with some guy Gene Michaels. Plus on Saturdays KJOY has far and away the best dance party show with Party Marty who takes phone calls and plays dance music by request.
Granted KJOY is one of those AC stations Soulcrusher complains about but within it's format KJOY appears to be doing well for itself with the music, up-to-date service information and put together a strong roster of Long Island talent with Jim and Kim, Party Marty Mitchell, and John Tesh. It's probably too soon to ring the death of Long Island Radio when you've got people like Jim and Kim and Tesh working to provide good entertainment.

Jim & Kim are formulatic, I actually like Tesh, but that is 7-Mid stuff, not 5pm stuff. Bill Edwards should be doing his thing w/o the help of syndicated Tesh and Marty (aka Marty Friedfertig aka Motown Marty from WNYG) honed his craft from Ed Newlands and others at the station and still can't hold a candle to him. He actually was PD at WNYG for 6 minutes 32 seconds. But I'll give him credit, at least he knows miquetoast sells on the radio.
 
herethere said:
It's a sad fact that this major market cannot pay employees living wages. Salesmen and a few of the programmers are the only ones making enough to afford an "average" lifestyle, such as a house, car, etc. while jocks, production and promotions staffers must either have a spouse with a superior salary, or are living at home with parents or family.

I can say that salaries here in Market 1 are dropping too, so I can only imagine where the pay level's at in Nassau/ Suffolk. (It probably doesn't help that almost none of these stations are unionized, not that the union's helping all that much anymore.) Without revealing their identities, I can tell you that my friends and acquaintances are all multi-tasking, handling multiple responsibilities, with some making less than 35K. Most starting salaries run between 16-23K, while many experienced personalities, who have families, are making under 40K. Part-time jocks are making $8-$9 an hour. Worst of all, with the economy sinking, many of the remotes that once made a low salary liveable have gone away, from retail to the nightclubs, so that padding is also fading from the picture.

A decent house on the Island runs 250-300K, so there's almost no way those in the business are making a living solely off one salary, with one job, and are able to thrive on the island. What happens next is that those who choose to work in radio, much as many young 20-somethings and 30-somethings from several fields have been doing, are forced to leave for jobs down south and outside the tri-state area. At the same time, the young talent that is still interested in radio is frightened off by the shrinking rates, thereby leaving a talent pool that is often lacking. Whereas once overnight jocks were somewhat experienced, hoping to earn better dayparted shifts, you now have voicetracking on the overnights, with subs who have little to no experience now learning while filling in during more vital hours.

Meanwhile, superior signals boom in from New York City, CT, upstate and even NJ along the south shore, giving listeners other choices beside local ones. Long Island is also a very technologically-savvy area, so all the other media, like iPods, satellite, HD radio, etc. all come into play (ironically both Howard Stern and O&A count the Island as a major territory, being they are from there, so satellite does very nicely.) Although I can't officially speak for other markets, I feel confident in declaring that Market #18 is one of the worst markets to work in anywhere in the nation.

However, if you do succeed at WBLI, WBAB or WALK, at least you know you're talking to hundreds of thousands of people, if that's any solace. ;D

What a post! You said it all! Thank you.
 
MarcB said:
Yes. 540 WLIE sux with their Russian? language format. It's one of two Long Island AM stations that blast into CT where I live...

I believe that the Russian programming is that which recently got bumped from the TV-6/87.7 LPTv in NYC. I haven't been able to listen much recently since it just moved to 540 after an entire month of Orthodox Jewish Programming, which was very unique and interesting. Just the other morning though the host was conducting an interview with someone who is involved in running a drug intervention program for youth in Brooklyn. The guest obviously couldn't speak russian, so the host would ask him the questions in english, the guest would answer in english, then the host would translate. It was a very good interview aimed at the target audience which is the russian population of Brooklyn. Back when it was on 87.7 it was a very well programmed station, atr least from the standpoint of imaging and pacing. I don't understand Russian, other than Vodka and Caviar, but I did like the station because it seemed fresh and different. I liked the music too, which is suprising because usually when it comes to dance music I can take it or leave it.

MarcB said:
...As for 740, the other Long Island Station that blasts into CT where I live, the music mix is interesting and I like it. So do a couple of my friends. Of course it would be better if the music wasn't interrupted for colon cleanse infomercials.

740 is a damn shame. Yes, the music is interesting. In fact, back when 540 was WLUX, it played a lot of the same music. The station had a respectable audience. It also was very well programed with a great music director who was also the afternoon drive host. Unfortunatly 740 has turned into some wealthy doctor's personal jukebox. The rates they charge and their fee structure is rediculous. Only the radio vultures, the ones who book time for those vitamin shows that sell snake oil and colon crap are willing to pay the rediculous rates that the station wants to charge. And they consider this crap local programming. I did once hear a show by some crazy local guy and his daughter once on either a Saturday or a Sunday. This was over the summer I think. 740 is also a technical nightmare. Once upon a time it was one of the best sounding stations on the Island. Now the audio is so severely overmodulated, its amazing the FCC hasn't paid them a visit. You can also get the station in places where you never could before. Sure, they did recently get a permit to change their pattern, but this was noticable long before they actually got the permit to put the new pattern in place. Why were we able to hear a station in Nassau County that we could never hear before. This station is also authorized to operate at night with low power, but instead they go off the air completely at night. Finally the automation is horrific. Yes, the music is good, but music alone don't make a good station. They have a lot of other things that need a lot of work. If I had to give them a grade, I'd give them a D, because at least the station is on the air. Certainly not a passing grade though. What kills me is that this is a station with so much potential, and there it sits, rotting and going to waste. It should be considered criminal.
 
I think that a big part of the problem with LI radio is the out of market signals. When the Feds set everything up, I don't think that they counted the LI Sound as water, but land. If it was land, the CT and Westchester signals would not be such a problem, but since that cant be filled in, the weak signaled stations on LI have a small coverage area. No coverage, no revenue, poor wages. It's not right that just across the water are a bunch of 50KW sticks, while LI has a bunch of 3 & 6KW sticks. I know that WEBE-107.9 and WPLR-99.1 cover more of LI than LI stations (other than 'BLI & WALK) do. It used to be that stations with poor signals tried new things, like WLIR did to try and get into NYC. I don't see the logic in putting something like AC on a weak station when it's already on a bunch of big signals, whether local or across the water...
 
MarcB said:
As for 740, the other Long Island Station that blasts into CT where I live, the music mix is interesting and I like it. So do a couple of my friends. Of course it would be better if the music wasn't interrupted for colon cleanse infomercials.
Didn't you mean to say the colon cleanse infomercials would be better if it wasn't interrupted for music? ;D ;) :p
 
Ted Russell said:
And they consider this crap local programming.
Knowing the mentality of some of these station owners, they would consider it ENTERTAINMENT programming. ::)

Ted Russell said:
In fact, back when 540 was WLUX, it played a lot of the same music. The station had a respectable audience. It also was very well programed with a great music director who was also the afternoon drive host.
I remember when WLUX used to be Adult Standards with MOYL, they actually showed up a couple of times in the New York City Arbitrons.
 
MOYL is a great format. If I need to relax I tune my radio to 1220 AM the MOYL affiliate here in CT. Obviously MOYL is dramatically different than what I normally listen to, which is hip-hop. ;D

Confidentially if I had won that $275 million Powerball Lotto Jackpot I would've bought the local AM station in the town I live in and flip it to MOYL. MOYL is better than the crap that is currently on said station which is Spanish Preaching/Teaching and some music.
 
MarcB said:
MOYL is a great format. If I need to relax I tune my radio to 1220 AM the MOYL affiliate here in CT. Obviously MOYL is dramatically different than what I normally listen to, which is hip-hop. ;D

Confidentially if I had won that $275 million Powerball Lotto Jackpot I would've bought the local AM station in the town I live in and flip it to MOYL. MOYL is better than the crap that is currently on said station which is Spanish Preaching/Teaching and some music.
Only one problem with MOYL, it's not on AM 1220 anymore now that Jones dropped it in favor of it's own in-house Standards format. Confidentially, MOYL was better than the format that preceeded the format that currently rules the airwaves on "said station." ;) But then again, the format when I was there was better, but I digress. ;)

And now, back to "This Market Blows!" over most of this station. ;D
 
herethere said:
It's a sad fact that this major market cannot pay employees living wages. Salesmen and a few of the programmers are the only ones making enough to afford an "average" lifestyle, such as a house, car, etc. while jocks, production and promotions staffers must either have a spouse with a superior salary, or are living at home with parents or family.

I can say that salaries here in Market 1 are dropping too, so I can only imagine where the pay level's at in Nassau/ Suffolk. (It probably doesn't help that almost none of these stations are unionized, not that the union's helping all that much anymore.) Without revealing their identities, I can tell you that my friends and acquaintances are all multi-tasking, handling multiple responsibilities, with some making less than 35K. Most starting salaries run between 16-23K, while many experienced personalities, who have families, are making under 40K. Part-time jocks are making $8-$9 an hour. Worst of all, with the economy sinking, many of the remotes that once made a low salary liveable have gone away, from retail to the nightclubs, so that padding is also fading from the picture.

A decent house on the Island runs 250-300K, so there's almost no way those in the business are making a living solely off one salary, with one job, and are able to thrive on the island. What happens next is that those who choose to work in radio, much as many young 20-somethings and 30-somethings from several fields have been doing, are forced to leave for jobs down south and outside the tri-state area. At the same time, the young talent that is still interested in radio is frightened off by the shrinking rates, thereby leaving a talent pool that is often lacking. Whereas once overnight jocks were somewhat experienced, hoping to earn better dayparted shifts, you now have voicetracking on the overnights, with subs who have little to no experience now learning while filling in during more vital hours.

Meanwhile, superior signals boom in from New York City, CT, upstate and even NJ along the south shore, giving listeners other choices beside local ones. Long Island is also a very technologically-savvy area, so all the other media, like iPods, satellite, HD radio, etc. all come into play (ironically both Howard Stern and O&A count the Island as a major territory, being they are from there, so satellite does very nicely.) Although I can't officially speak for other markets, I feel confident in declaring that Market #18 is one of the worst markets to work in anywhere in the nation.

However, if you do succeed at WBLI, WBAB or WALK, at least you know you're talking to hundreds of thousands of people, if that's any solace. ;D

There's an old line that said..."we don't do it for the money, we do it for the love of radio!"

Being someone who went into the business at an advanced age (40's), I was blown away by what was presented as a "living wage" ($20K) when I landed my first "full-time" opportunity in 2004. My Program Director, a guy in his late 30's with a wife and young child once told me that he wouldn't be able to stay in the industry if it weren't for the fact that his wife had a job with great benefits.

Nonetheless, I went to work everyday (driving 90 minutes each way with gas at $3+ per gallon) with the hope of making an impression and working my way up the ladder, much like in any other business. Still, at some point, reality has to come into play and the idea of being able to support yourself has to be taken into consideration. For me, it took about a year and a half. Finally, after exhausting every avenue to keep my dream of a career in broadcasting alive, I had to give it up and get back into the rat race in order to survive.

Since that time, I've had several offers to get back into radio, but have had to decline because the salaries being offered would put me right back into a financial hole. It's a very sad situation.
 
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