This market is called Dallas-FORT WORTH, right?

[texas_prwriter]

A little venting from this side of 360....

Years ago, I read a story about how Ron Chapman would sometimes take newbies to the oil derrick at Six Flags Over Texas and point out you could see the Dallas and Fort Worth skylines from there. He would supposedly tell them that when they were on the air, they should pretend that was their studio and keep both cities in perspective (See this replay of a 2005 Bud Kennedy column that originally ran in the Star-Telegram http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php?t904.html).

I don't know if that's urban legend, or true, but KVIL used to demonstrate it by doing the forecast ("and over Fair Park it's 64 and at Trinity Park it's 65, and it's 63 at 103-7 KVIL.").

Lately, I think a lot of people in DFW radio need a kick in the butt to be reminded that they serve the nation's 19th largest city, as well as its 9th from their studios. Two recent examples:

* While running errands today, I heard KVIL's weekend afternoon personality (her name escapes me, but she's usually pretty good) give the temperature. In Frisco and Allen. In KVIL's heyday, they'd remember to do one in the Fort Worth area and one in the Dallas area. Frisco and Allen neither one qualify as being in FW. (Some of my friends in both cities would say they would decline being Dallas, too!).

* Last week, I heard WBAP's Amy Chodroff interviewing someone at ABC News (it may have been Ann Compton, during her regular segment) and she asked something to the effect of: So is it true that President Bush has confirmed he's moving "here to Dallas?" That's about a week or two after she asked one of WBAP's reporters (probably Jim Ryan) if he was ready to "get back here to Dallas." Besides being unsound from a journalism standpoint (Chodroff is in Fort Worth-licensed WBAP's studios in Arlington, so thus it's inaccurate to say "here in Dallas"), isn't it wrong for a local personality to use any shorthand in describing North Texas cities? (Now, it is true that Bush is talking about moving to the city of Dallas (along with HP and UP), so saying "Dallas-Fort Worth" would be pointless, but the "here" part irks me).

I certainly understand that outside North Texas, "Dallas" is shorthand for everything west of Tyler and east of Abilene, south of Oklahoma and north of Austin. That's fine. I don't correct the Air Tran or Delta flight attendant who welcomes me to "Dallas" at DFW Airport. But shouldn't the folks on the air "here in Dallas-Fort Worth" be reminded about the millions of people who live in the market but not in Dallas? Some of us enjoy living here and only put up with Dallas because we have to. (I realize some of you feel that way about Fort Worth, too, but that's your loss ).

Just a rant. You may return to your daily routine now. ;D

 

[JayDavis]

So in two years, are we going to call the Dallas Cowboys the Arlington Cowboys or the Tarrant County Cowboys? I'm just saying.................

 

[texas_prwriter]

Probably just the 13-3 Cowboys.... Or 3-13, take your pick. ;D

Look, I'm not talking about asking the Cowboys to commit marketing suicide. The Dallas Cowboys is recognized the world over. The Dallas-Fort Worth Cowboys, the Texas Cowboys, and especially the Arlington Cowboys would not be recognized as well. But, it's not marketing suicide for a local radio station to recognize that more than 3.5 million out of the 5 million in this market live outside its largest city, and there are some other big cities in the area, as well....

 

[little1]

Look at it this way- what is the dominant city?

Not like dressed up in leather with a whip dominant, but who's the big dog? Dallas.

And odds are when you combine Dallas and Collin, the domination people wise is even greater.

My money says that KVIL is just facing reality. That their audience isn't where it used to be (and where they wish it was) (i.e. Highland and University Park) but their audience is the 30 and 40 something Milfy Soccer moms in the outer suburbs.

And by outer suburbs, we're not talikng the 'old' suburbs like Richardson, FB, GP, or even Plano...We're talking Frisco, Allen, ROwlett, Murphy, Mansfield, and the like...All those 'new' developments...

And in this day and age of people suposedly wanting less talk, do you really want a jock to give temps in 3 differnt areas? When odds are they're all going to be within a degree or 2 of each other? THAT is my rant topic- "oh it's 50 downtown and only 48 in Frisco? I'm 'up north" I'll be sure to wear an extra sweater to compensate for that 2 degree diff..."

 

[johnqdoe]

Those "local" temps are made up anyway. Im sure it wouldnt hurt to say Southlake or Keller...but are folks in Tarrant Co. gonna flip the station if the jock mentions 2 Dallas Co. cities? "Serving" the community is more than throwaway temp mentions.

 

[arnoldevns]

This is a valid complaint. The Dallas and Fort Worth markets merged about 3 decades ago. If you're going to program your station for the whole area, you should try as much as possible to not make a significant part of it feel left out. One way to do this is to give the temp at just DFW airport and identify it correctly.

 

[ISaidSo]

Well, He is moving to Dallas, not Ft. Worth, not Keller, but Dallas... North Dallas to be exact... So what they said was correct... Let it go

 

[NealH]

Someone call an exorcist...prwriter's been possessed by the spirit of Amon G Carter

 

[Board Editor]

MOVED: OTA: This market is called Dallas-FORT WORTH, right?

Some posts in this topic have been moved to Off The Air.

[iurl=http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=91303.0]http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=91303.0[/iurl]

 

[BBontheRadio]

A little venting from this side of 360....

Thank you for at least picking on two different stations!

Honestly, I wish we would just do one temperature, because in my opinion two or more is overkill. We don't have any rule to pick one town from the Fort Worth side and another from the Dallas area, but there should be. When I'm on, I always do that, and the Fort Worth one is first. I even live in the 817 area code.

 

[texas_prwriter]

Well, He is moving to Dallas, not Ft. Worth, not Keller, but Dallas... North Dallas to be exact... So what they said was correct... Let it go

No, it isn't. Re-read the quoted part. "Here to Dallas." Chodroff is in Arlington. Therefore it's not "here to Dallas." You're right, saying "Dallas-Fort Worth" would be pointless. Saying "he's moving to Dallas" or "to our neck of the woods" all would be fine.

I'm not picking on WBAP or KVIL for this. These are two great stations that certainly have had better and worse days, and the people I know at each are some of the best people I've ever worked with. I just think there is too much Dallas-centric focus on the stations, and that's a loss to Fort Worth-area listeners.

 

[texas_prwriter]

Someone call an exorcist...prwriter's been possessed by the spirit of Amon G Carter

I did take my lunch to Dallas today. I wonder what was up with that.

 

[texas_prwriter]

Well, He is moving to Dallas, not Ft. Worth, not Keller, but Dallas... North Dallas to be exact... So what they said was correct... Let it go

No, it isn't. Re-read the quoted part. "Here to Dallas." Chodroff is in Arlington. Therefore it's not "here to Dallas." You're right, saying "Dallas-Fort Worth" would be pointless. Saying "he's moving to Dallas" or "to our neck of the woods" all would be fine.

I'm not picking on WBAP or KVIL for this. These are two great stations that certainly have had better and worse days, and the people I know at each are some of the best people I've ever worked with. I just think there is too much Dallas-centric focus on the stations, and that's a loss to Fort Worth-area listeners.

OK, I tried to edit this, but my time expired. Let me expand on this:

Well, He is moving to Dallas, not Ft. Worth, not Keller, but Dallas... North Dallas to be exact... So what they said was correct... Let it go

No, it isn't correct. Re-read the quoted part. "Here to Dallas." Chodroff was (I'm assuming, but it's a safe assumption) at 'BAP's studios in Arlington. Therefore it's not "here to Dallas." (It wouldn't be "here to Dallas" if she was in Las Colinas, Garland or Highland Park, either). You're right, saying "Dallas-Fort Worth" would be pointless, since he is most likely moving to Preson Hollow, and not Keller, Southlake or anywhere else but Big D. Saying "he's moving to Dallas" or "to our neck of the woods" all would be fine, but "here to Dallas" when the anchor isn't "here" in Dallas is just journalistically incorrect. Forgivable? Absolutely. Understandable? You betcha. Nature of live radio? Okeydokey. We've all done it? Yep. Technically correct? No. And that's the rub.

I'm not picking on WBAP or KVIL for this. These are two great stations that certainly have had better and worse days, and the people I know at each are some of the best people I've ever worked with. I just think there is too much Dallas-centric focus on the stations in this market as a whole, and that's a loss to Fort Worth-area listeners, and for Dallas ones, too. There's a lot of cool stuff about Fort Worth (museums, a much better zoo, culture, cowboys, the whole chamber of commerce brochure...) And I'm not even picking on Dallas. I work there, and I like it. I do like Fort Worth better, and live in Tarrant County, but I don't have a deep-seated hatred of Dallas that some FW people have toward it (and vice versa).

The weather example I gave was a bad one and isn't germane to my main rant (I do like the suggestion to just give the official reporting station at DFW's temperature; if there is a significant difference between Fort Worth and Dallas (or Denton and Arlington or Bridgeport and Lancaster) then, and only then should we waste our time with the other reporting stations in the area).

Let's just program for the entire region and not leave either side of the metroplex out.

 

[wombat]

Lately, I think a lot of people in DFW radio need a kick in the butt to be reminded that they serve the nation's 19th largest city, as well as its 9th from their studios. Two recent examples:

i agree with you..... when i had the misfortune of working in dfw radio, it seemed every week we had production written that not just focused on dallas, but sometimes mocked fort worth. made my blood boil.

however, there is a good side to this. when i say "dallas radio sucks," it truly IS dallas radio sucking. fort worth radio? not so much.

 

[Steve Eberhart]

While I don't recall Chapman ever actually taking a new hire to the 6 Flags Oil Derrick to demonstrate the point, he certainly DID instill in one the perception that you were broadcasting from the 6 Flags Oil Derrick with Dallas to your right and Ft. Worth to your left as you stood there almost exactly in the center of "Dallas-Fort Worth" when going through basic training for becoming an air talent on KVIL.

Interestingly, that session we all took with him was probably the best education in broadcasting one could ever get. If one did nothing but follow those principles to the point, you'd be far and beyond a better broadcaster for it, no matter what station, what format, what city.

Some got it, some didn't...those who did, usually had a job for a very long time.

 

[TheRover]

As a side issue, that I have with Ministires in the area.....

They encourage and welcome their viewing audience to come to "Dallas" to visit their church.

But... their Church, is not in Dallas. It is in Irving, or Carrollton, or Plano, or Frisco, or wherever....but, it is not in Dallas.

They say..... since we moved "to Dallas".....

They should instead say, and more correctly say.... "since we moved to the Dallas area".


As for the Cowboys....even after they move to the new Stadium (in Arlington).... I expect and assume TV announcers will say things like.... "We're back in Dallas"....simply because the team is labeled the "Dallas" Cowboys. That's no big deal. But.... if they specifically mention the stadium, then they should say the city where the stadium is located, be it Irving, or Arlington.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Where is the majority of light coming from in the view from space?

http://www.texasfreeway.com/Dallas/dallas.shtml

The Ft. Worth area, after decades of languishing, seems to be enjoying a lot of new growth. As the population grows, I am sure it will receive attention proportional to its population.

 

[jd]

I grew up in Fort Worth. I've also lived in Irving, Arlington, Bedford and historic East Dallas. So I think I can speak from experience.

As noted in the post above, the Fort Worth area is experiencing rapid growth, much the same as Collin County, but many longtime residents of Fort Worth simply don't like being part of the Dallas area. To them the line of demarcation, "Where the West Begins," is still very real. If you think that some denizens of Dallas view the words D/FW Metroplex with disdain, ask around in Fort Worth and you may sense disgust. You can thank COG, the North Central Texas Council of Governments, for coining that term back in the 1970's.

There are no commercial radio or TV stations licensed to Fort Worth that go out of their way to serve their community of license. Of course, you go where the money is, but is it wise to eradicate all links to your past? It's hard to say when WBAP, for the most part, ceased to be a Fort Worth radio station. But some of its older fans know that it's certainly a lot more Big D and a lot less Cowtown than it was a couple of decades ago. What about KVIL's Fort Worth presence during the station's golden years? Think it didn't matter to Tarrant County listeners, when virtually all of their stations had packed up and moved to the east?

Fort Worth can commiserate with folks in St. Paul, Tacoma, Oakland and St. Petersburg. They don't get the respect they deserve, whether it be from the local or national media. Likewise, all have radio and TV stations licensed to their respective communities which serve (or attempt to serve) larger cities at the expense of their "hometown" listeners.

Hicksville it isn't; Fort Worth is proud of its heritage as a "cosmopolitan Cowtown." I don't live there now, but I still have family there. And I'm glad the city has the Star-Telegram, KTCU, and a number of next-door neighbor stations like KFWR who know that there's an audience 32 miles west of downtown Dallas.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I grew up in Fort Worth. I've also lived in Irving, Arlington, Bedford and historic East Dallas. So I think I can speak from experience.

Hicksville it isn't; Fort Worth is proud of its heritage as a "cosmopolitan Cowtown." I don't live there now, but I still have family there. And I'm glad the city has the Star-Telegram, KTCU, and a number of next-door neighbor stations like KFWR who know that there's an audience 32 miles west of downtown Dallas.

It is a problem - one that I can sympathize with. I grew up in the Midland / Odessa area, and the two cities act like rivals instead of cooperating to bring in new business to the area. We always looked to the East to Fort Worth and Dallas as examples of cities that could work together to accomplish things. That said, there are still problems.

Ft. Worth's image as a large, cosmopolitan city was not helped AT ALL by numerous vehicles being towed at the recent "Hannah Montana" concert. If you had to invent a way of alienating future adult citizens of the entire DFW metroplex, I could not have come up with a more effective method of doing so! GET THE PARKING PROBLEMS RESOLVED AND QUIT TOWING!!!! Or Ft. Worth may remain a "last choice" destination for people in the DFW Metroplex. Any kid stranded over there that night with their parents now think of Ft. Worth as a hicktown - I know a couple. The WON'T be back for a long long time. Of course you could always lobby Coppell to fix those three blasted intersections on 121 that barricade everybody from the Northwest side of the DFW metroplex from getting to Ft. Worth in the first place. They should have been freeway overpasses decades ago!

Lest you feel left out, my church is in the process of opening a large new facility in Ft. Worth, something members in Grapevine, Downtown Dallas, Plano, and even Miami, FL have donated millions for.

I am glad you remembered to mention KTCU! What a jewel of a station. Of late, though, they have been putting too much country sounding music on the air, though.

I wonder if there similar feelings in the Minneapolis / St. Paul area?

 

[bhenslee]

And in this day and age of people suposedly wanting less talk, do you really want a jock to give temps in 3 differnt areas? When odds are they're all going to be within a degree or 2 of each other? THAT is my rant topic- "oh it's 50 downtown and only 48 in Frisco? I'm 'up north" I'll be sure to wear an extra sweater to compensate for that 2 degree diff..."

I love how the TV guys waste time doing this..."Denton, your high tomorrow will be 58...in Lewisville 57, McKinney 58."

Or better yet..."Desoto, your looking a low tonight of 41. Lancaster 42."

I guess a cow farting in Lancaster makes it one degree warmer.