• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Those were the days!!

Re: Longevity

Rob Stutson said:
SirRoxalot said:
Don't forget Roger "The Cockroach" Christian. 30+ years on 102.5 and still counting...

That's probably close to like 35+ years - didn't he start there when Rock 102 hit the air in '73?

And Joe Chille's been at WBNY/WJYE for 30 years.

Did Rock 102 start with Stereo Rock automation, or did they have live announcers first?

I've tried to email Roger to get some details on what it was like there in the late 70s and early 80s, but he doesn't seem interested in responding. I was also trying to find more about the very similar automation on WWSE 93.3 (SE-93) in Jamestown.

Oh well, so much for hearing their stories.

Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
In the early 70's while I was looking around at colleges (eventually attended Ithaca) I drove down to Elmira..and in the town of Horseheads I saw a tower near an Esso station where I was getting gas (41.9 a gallon)...I went in to see WEHH. It was just another little local station..and I was interested, but was much of the same as a radio station of that era..EXCEPT..in the back, sitting on a shelf built into the rack..was ONE Gerrard turntable..with about a half-dozen 33-1/3 records stacked on the spindle..and ONE Sportmaster 505 cart machine. I asked the guy what that was for, and he said "Oh..that's the crappy FM..what a pain it is to remember to turn over those goddam records"

Turns out that there was a silence-sensor that would trigger the cart deck between each song after one second of silence..and over the quiet between tracks it would say in an ersatz classical voice "Beautiful FM Mewzik..on WEHH-FM Horseheads-Elmira..always relaxing"..then on to the next 101 Strings song..and on and on. The guy said that when they came in on weekends it would either be out of records, or the stylus was SO encrusted with dust that the sound was practically un-listenable.

Hey Bob Savage..what is WEHH-FM now?
 
Regarding Rock 102 (later WMJQ, now WTSS): Roger Christian joined Rock 102 after leaving WGRQ (the Super Q.) If he had a dollar for every PD and jock he's worked with at 102.5, he might've been able to retire ten years ago. ;)

Regarding WEHH-FM, it's now WLVY. Here's what's available on WEHH-AM & FM at Wilipedia: http://india.smashits.com/wikipedia/WEHH Interesting reading.
 
Jeff, I spent about fifteen months doing mornings at WEHH (my first fulltime job) before moving onto Rochester and WBBF. There was no WEHH-FM during my time there, no cart machines either for that matter.

I remember years later calling owner Frank Saia when I heard he was selling the FM station. Thinking the price was a little low, I asked him why he was selling.

His answer, "They called and asked me how much I would sell the station for and I gave them a price I never thought that they would pay -- $125,000...so I let it go."

Hell, I think even I could have found some investors to come up with $125K back then! Oh well...
 
Wow..what decade was that? I certainly hope I am not mixing up my stations..I am ssure that the turntable with the Mantovani and 101 Strings lps was indeed WEHH-FM. The guy who showed me around was a chain smoker..I think his name was Paul, or Phil..nice enough, but thought that the FM was a waste of electricity. Did you work in Midtown Tower?
 
Re: Longevity

Jody-Thornton said:
Did Rock 102 start with Stereo Rock automation, or did they have live announcers first?

When WBEN-FM flipped from B/EZ to Stereo Rock it was all automated. Bob Smith (who posts here often) can fill you in on the details.

Around '83, mornings went live (with Roger) but the rest of the day was automated. By '85 it was live around the clock.
 
Ahh, Rock 102, I remember it well. (Part of my job was to record on cart what was for all intents and purposes my bottom-of-the-hour headline cast on WBEN, and feed it to the automation monster across the hall for play at 10 minutes before the hour as our FM newscast.)

Speaking of the automation monster, we called it FRED...for "F***ing Ridiculous Electronic Device." The tech staff hated it.

It was programmed with packages of reel to reel tapes with automatic tones to trigger stopsets after playing a couple songs in sequence. An early minicomputer was tasked with running the breaks and firing program elements on a timed sequence from cart carousels. The tapes were produced by TM, the jingle house which was dabbling in automated format production, and cycled around every week or two as hit music charts and playlists changed. The music tapes, all 10 inch stereo reels, were categorized as 100 series, with current songs, 200s for recurrents, 300 for older recurrents and 400 for gold (with no gold cuts dating from before 1967). The 100s would play most often on hot rotation with other classes of cuts played less often...I remember several tape decks full of 100 series tapes, a couple for the 200s and one each for the 300 and 400 series. Roger Christian programmed the whole thing and made sure every class of tape was rotated and changed regularly, usually on a weekly basis. The 100s would arrive fresh every week from TM, the 200s and 300s less often, and the 400s sent together as a big box of a couple dozen or so reels and just rotated on a schedule, very occasionally added to with a reel of additional songs sent in by TM.

Roger's own role on air grew gradually--starting with prerecorded liners, then starting in about 1979 or 1980, he hosted a live-assist morning show where FRED was put on pause and everything ran from the production studio just down the hall from FRED. It ran from 6 until, IIRC, 9 AM (except the news, which was still carted and fired at 10 before the hour), and finally, some time after I left WBEN, live jocks were brought in from 6 AM to midnight and FRED sent into retirement. That's about the time Roger moved from mornings to middays, the daypart he's occupied for at least 25 years now.

We knew when the live assist morning started, that automation was going to be phased out completely over time and live programming was going to replace it. Bob Wood, who was PD for the whole company, said back then that FM listenership was going to continue growing in the market and listeners were soon going to expect live product from any FM station they were going to spend a lot of time with...so he was going to move WBEN-FM (later WMJQ, now Star 102.5) gradually toward a live format that would play the hits but go beyond 12-17s to appeal to the 18-28 listeners who liked most pop music of the day but not the novelty cuts or clearly teen acts. It would be what we now call hot AC, and would be complementary to the 25-54 targeting that WBEN-AM was doing with its mainstream full service AC format. He knew the change would take time to phase in for budgetary reasons. But he figured that before too long, 102.5 would be a fully live station. He was right, and he actually played a major role in making it happen before he left Buffalo and went out west.

Programmers and owners have changed...but the overall direction Bob Wood saw for 102.5's future in 1980, a live hot AC format station, has proven to be the course it's still on today.
 
With all the memories of The Hound and WBLK being discussed, I thought I would share this site with you in case you are not aware that it exsists.... http://www.hounddoglorenz.com/

It is a great tribute with shows, theme songs, pictures, biography and much more. Check it out!
 
Bob1370 said:
Ahh, Rock 102, I remember it well. (Part of my job was to record on cart what was for all intents and purposes my bottom-of-the-hour headline cast on WBEN, and feed it to the automation monster across the hall for play at 10 minutes before the hour as our FM newscast.)

Speaking of the automation monster, we called it FRED...for "F***ing Ridiculous Electronic Device." The tech staff hated it.

As much as radio staff may have hated it (let's face it - it was the lead-in for today's automated radio), TM Stereo Rock was cool to listen to. At that time, it was a novelty to hear the hits without the yapping (I should've have been careful what I had wished for, becuase boy, do I ever lament the loss of AM Top 40 now!). But then, non-stop music formats weren't the norm. I remember popping several c-90 type II cassettes into my deck and letting it record. The quality was awesome. And they had some interesting edits and versions of songs back then.

I remember the system f--king up in August 1984, when I tuned in and heard Chris DeBurgh's "High on Emotion" and Cory Hart's "Sunglasses at Night" playing simultaneously. It kept on for at least a half an hour. By the end of the month, TM Stereo Rock was gone, and you had Randy Scrufarri (sp?) playing music at night.

Now, Bob (nice to meet you by the way), are you familiar with what SE-93 in Jamestown was possibly running in about 1987? It sounded A LOT like Stereo Rock, but it was more an AC format, and in each set, the announcer only backsold one hit, played a recurrent, and a gold selection. They had very rapid fades on the songs, and like Stereo Rock, it had a station tag-line or postioner into the stop set.

Just curious if you knew at all.

Cheers,
Jody Thornton
(Hamilton, Ontario)
 
Love all the information on the old early FM days. I never owned an FM radio until after I left Buffalo and went in the Air Force in 65, but my first full time job in radio just out of college at Fredonia, was the summer replacement transmitter operator at WBUF in 1964. That ended up being a full time job for abut 6 months. It was beautiful music (Jakes music?) on the main channel with absolutely no commercials! The income came from the Storecasting on the SCA which was Muzak, with various tones to turn on and off receivers for specialized target audiences. I worked there a week before I found the first microphone, in the bottom drawer of a file cabinet. Production was all done downtown somewhere and driven on tape to the transmitter where it was dubbed onto carts to be played back on the carousel machines through the gates yard board. That was a lot of radiojobs ago, but after years as a DJ, radio and TV newsman I switched over to full time engineering 25+ years ago and have never looked back. Bill Croghan, Chief Engineer, Lotus Broadcasting, Las Vegas. KOMP,KXPT,KWID,KWWN,KBAD,KENO.
 
The thread came up on a Google search while I was looking for information about WBLK. After reading it, I wondered what became of many of the posters in this thread. Maybe this should be in the Classic Threads file.
 
"WKBW's FM CP was 105.7. Never happened. If it was Churchill or CapCities that turned in the CP, it was a fateful decision. The rest, as they say, is history."

It was Clinton Churchill's CP. They took it out in the 1950s, before the FM band was re-drawn in the wake of the start of stereo broadcasting in 1961. They dropped it for all intents and purposes before the end of the 1950s although it stayed on the FCC's books longer because CPs never had expiration dates back in those times. They do now. That channel's gone, re-allocated to the Kitchener/Waterloo area in Ontario, and won't ever be built in Buffalo, by Entercom or by anyone else.

Churchill had a good reason for neglecting it, though.

He got distracted with another little project next door to the 1430 Main St. radio center, which he needed all the spare cash he could get to finish...namely WKBW-TV. And that wasn't their only big project at the time.

Clinton Sr. and Clinton Jr. spent all of 1956 and 1957 battling back competitors to get the CP for Channel 7 from the FCC, and most of 1958 getting it built, affiliated with ABC and put on the air. Their other all-consuming project at the same time was establishing a beachhead for personality hit radio in not one, but two large markets. They were-formatting KB Radio into a CHR market leader...while they were doing the same thing across the country with another property they'd just bought, KYA in San Francisco. The Churchills had their hands full. Wasn't much time or money left for even thinking about an FM.

It was worth it, though, to make some sacrifices to focus on the projects they had going.. It may have cost a million or two to build it, but Channel 7 made up most of the $14 million the Churchills collected for selling off KB radio and TV to Lowell Thomas, Tom Murphy and Dan Burke, aka Capital Cities Broadcasting Company, in 1961. That and Albany's WTEN, in turn, would be the nucleus of the behemoth that expanded east to Providence, south to Philly, Ralleigh-Durham and off to Houston and points west in the 70s, then gobbled ABC in 1986 only to sell out for $16 billion to the Mouse ten years later. (The Churchills actually held on to KYA for years after they sold out in their home city; Clinton Jr. ran KYA for years before clearing a tidy profit when he finally did sell out around the end of the 1960s.) But that's the rest of the story...if they'd built that FM they might not have had the bucks in hand to build the TV and turn it around to CapCities for a big profit, or make a major impact on Bay Area radio throughout the 60s, and a lot of broadcast history might be different today...
 
Bob1370 said:
"WKBW's FM CP was 105.7. Never happened. If it was Churchill or CapCities that turned in the CP, it was a fateful decision. The rest, as they say, is history."

It was Clinton Churchill's CP. They took it out in the 1950s, before the FM band was re-drawn in the wake of the start of stereo broadcasting in 1961. They dropped it for all intents and purposes before the end of the 1950s although it stayed on the FCC's books longer because CPs never had expiration dates back in those times. They do now. That channel's gone, re-allocated to the Kitchener/Waterloo area in Ontario, and won't ever be built in Buffalo, by Entercom or by anyone else.

Churchill had a good reason for neglecting it, though.

He got distracted with another little project next door to the 1430 Main St. radio center, which he needed all the spare cash he could get to finish...namely WKBW-TV. And that wasn't their only big project at the time.

Clinton Sr. and Clinton Jr. spent all of 1956 and 1957 battling back competitors to get the CP for Channel 7 from the FCC, and most of 1958 getting it built, affiliated with ABC and put on the air. Their other all-consuming project at the same time was establishing a beachhead for personality hit radio in not one, but two large markets. They were-formatting KB Radio into a CHR market leader...while they were doing the same thing across the country with another property they'd just bought, KYA in San Francisco. The Churchills had their hands full. Wasn't much time or money left for even thinking about an FM.

It was worth it, though, to make some sacrifices to focus on the projects they had going.. It may have cost a million or two to build it, but Channel 7 made up most of the $14 million the Churchills collected for selling off KB radio and TV to Lowell Thomas, Tom Murphy and Dan Burke, aka Capital Cities Broadcasting Company, in 1961. That and Albany's WTEN, in turn, would be the nucleus of the behemoth that expanded east to Providence, south to Philly, Ralleigh-Durham and off to Houston and points west in the 70s, then gobbled ABC in 1986 only to sell out for $16 billion to the Mouse ten years later. (The Churchills actually held on to KYA for years after they sold out in their home city; Clinton Jr. ran KYA for years before clearing a tidy profit when he finally did sell out around the end of the 1960s.) But that's the rest of the story...if they'd built that FM they might not have had the bucks in hand to build the TV and turn it around to CapCities for a big profit, or make a major impact on Bay Area radio throughout the 60s, and a lot of broadcast history might be different today...

Thank you, Bob 1370, for that really interesting slice of Buffalo radio history!! Love that back story. Man, there's always great new stuff to learn around here! ;D

Nick Seneca
 
That's a fine summary, Bob1370, on the background of what might have been WKBW-FM. Additionally, according to spoken word from those "within the walls," there was a gray area around 1963-64 (?) when CapCities had a second chance at the Buffalo FM allocation but chose not to pursue it. So not only did the Churchill family turn its back on the possibility of WKBW-FM, but (if those within the walls are correct) CapCities as well. IIRC, KYA San Francisco was for a while an AM-FM simulcast of the Top 40 format, well ahead of its time, having some legendary air personalities of its own. Fascinating.
 
Bob1370 said:
Churchill had a good reason for neglecting it, though.

He got distracted with another little project next door to the 1430 Main St. radio center, which he needed all the spare cash he could get to finish...namely WKBW-TV. And that wasn't their only big project at the time.

Clinton Sr. and Clinton Jr. spent all of 1956 and 1957 battling back competitors to get the CP for Channel 7 from the FCC, and most of 1958 getting it built, affiliated with ABC and put on the air. Their other all-consuming project at the same time was establishing a beachhead for personality hit radio in not one, but two large markets. They were-formatting KB Radio into a CHR market leader...while they were doing the same thing across the country with another property they'd just bought, KYA in San Francisco. The Churchills had their hands full. Wasn't much time or money left for even thinking about an FM.

KB radio's flip was in answer to WBNY's flip to top 40 in the summer of 1957... "Futuresonic Radio" debuted July 4, 1958 - one month later, KB PD Dick Lawrence hired Irv Weinstein
 
Another bit of radio history: Coming soon is the 70th anniversary of the Big Tree Road site, dedicated October 5, 1941. We recently completed a re-fencing project surrounding the 3 KB towers, while researching through the archives in preparation for it--looking for the locations of buried cables--we found all the original prints for the construction, along with subsequent plans for modifications and upgrades through the years.

Prior to Big Tree Road, KB transmitted from a site not far from the current studios on Corporate Parkway, near the 990 and Sweet Home Road--this shows up on old topo maps from that time. The original plans specified that the old heating plant from this location was to be moved to the new facility in Hamburg, which it was.

Curiously, in the mountains of prints and plans we found NO evidence of a proposed FM, which makes me wonder if this was a project handled by the TV side?

We did find plenty of documentation for the AM stereo project in the 1980s though....which reminds me of a project for Digital AM I worked on in Vegas in the late 90s as a demo for the NAB show.
 
A minor correction. There was little or no period when the Churchills had interests in both Buffalo and San Francisco. In 1962 they sold WKBW Radio and their 50% interest in Channel 7 and used some of the proceeds to buy KYA. They then offered most of theWKBW radio personalities jobs at KYA. The takers included Russ Syracuse, Tom Saunders and Larry Brownell. All spent the remainder of their careers in San Francisco radio. Saunders is the only one still living and he retired from KOIT about three years ago.

Several other Buffalo radio people also ended up in San Francisco including Frank Dill who had worked at WGR.
 
"There was little or no period when the Churchills had interests in both Buffalo and San Francisco. "

I wonder about that, because they'd pulled a lot of KB's original talent across country to San Fran by about 1960 at the latest. I think they'd bought KYA well before they dumped Kb and Channel 7 in 1961, and were probably planning for it while they were launching Futuresonic Radio and building the first Rocketship 7...maybe Promo the Robot could look through his memory banks and tell us for sure...
 
Bob1370 said:
"WKBW's FM CP was 105.7. Never happened. If it was Churchill or CapCities that turned in the CP, it was a fateful decision. The rest, as they say, is history."

Interesting semi-parallel to the World's First Commercial Station in Pittsburgh.

KDKA's FM was on 92.9, elevator music-formatted WPNT (The Point). Owner Westinghouse sold it in 1983 to Saul Frischling who turned it Soft AC under the calls WLTJ.

From '93 until Westinghouse (now CBS) bought WBZZ/WDSY/WZPT, KDKA had no FM brethren. Today, the old WBZZ now wears the calls KDKA-FM and runs an all-sports format separate from the AM's N/T.

So the Churchills/Cap Cities weren't the only ones not seeing the value in FM, but at least when they let the CP go AM was still king and FM was about where HD is today...

One of these trips Upstate I gotta get off the 90 in Hamburg (or is Orchard Park closer?) and go pay homage at Big Tree Road.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom