Thumbs Down review for Insignia portable HD radio

[audioguy]

I have to put in a good word for Sprint. I've got a pay-as-you go cell phone from Virgin that runs on the Sprint network. Call quality and reliability beats AT&T everywhere I use it; in the Chicago area, and over in Michigan. I can only get spotty service from AT&T in the Chicago suburbs where I live, and even when I'm getting 5 bars on my BlackBerry, it drops words and sometimes even the call itself. In fact the quality is so bad, I hate using it for voice. Data works OK.

I also have the unlimited Sprint mobile broadband card for my laptop. It has worked flawlessly in every single city I have used it, and I have traveled quite a bit. It works great at my summer home in a rural area where AT&T service is nonexistent.

The only reason I have an AT&T phone is that my company supplied it. AT&T is their corporate carrier. I would never subscribe to their service based on how it works.

As one wireless salesman once told me, the best wireless network is the one that works in the places where you need it to work!

 

[TSL2]

Apples iphone does so many neat things who wouldn't want one or two. Same for all the smart phones.
This technology will be driven by consumer demand and will advance!

Don't believe me, watch Atomic Tom play their music from the apps on their iphone. Strings and drums on their iphone..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAllFWSl998

Then theres HD radio, that does one thing poorly. Unless something changes this technology is dead.

 

[KB1OKL]

Apples iphone does so many neat things who wouldn't want one or two. Same for all the smart phones.
This technology will be driven by consumer demand and will advance!

Don't believe me, watch Atomic Tom play their music from the apps on their iphone. Strings and drums on their iphone..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAllFWSl998

That is amazing.

 

[radiogooroo]

Clear competes with AT&T and T-Mobile, but in the mobile internet market - not in the cell phone market. Different divisions of AT&T and T-Mobile are involved than we were discussing. Verizon has a toe in that water too, but is behind the others.

By the way, I don't "claim" that those entertainment platforms are going to take over the world - they just are. And you need to accept it. Your comment is the equivalent of blaming the weatherman for a rainy weekend when he tells you about it the day before.

Sprint is NOT enough of a competitor for AT&T or Verizon for them to change business strategies. Sprint's service is like swiss cheese in the more populated areas and is non-existent across huge swaths of the USA. Leave an interstate or big city in most of the south and you lose Sprint service. Upstate NY and central/western PA have next to nothing from Sprint and there's no service at all in most of SD, NE, NV and huge areas of other western states. The unstated fact from their coverage map is that they are light on cell coverage even where they supposedly offer it - fine perhaps in the cities, but weak in many suburbs. And that is in areas that are supposedly their strong markets.

Cricket uses the networks of Metro PCS and Sprint. Again, not a serious competitor of the big 2. T-Mobile is probably the closest thing to competition that AT&T and Verizon have in the wireless marketplace and it still has a long way to go. Basically it is a head to head competition with everyone else looking for the leftovers.

By the way, your comments about 'mandated' HD Radios are waaaaaay off! Honestly, this idea of the government forcing unfunded mandates on industries and consumers has gone far enough. Leave the government out of it! If the marketplace wants it, it will flourish; if not, it will die. As the latter thing is happening, you don't like it. Nor do you care for the example I have given of technology that is in growth mode.

Face it: NOBODY (with the exception of a few geeks here) CARES ABOUT HD RADIO!! Nobody. That's why it doesn't sell. That's why Apple sells more iTouch players in a day than Ibiquity sells HD Radios in a month.

But, if you insist on living in a place where market-driven demands are trumped by the whims of a small cabal of government leaders, there always is Venezuela.

Hey, I'm talking mobile internet. I bring mobile internet devices into the discussion to prove my point that AT&T and Verizon have a capacity problem and you have a cow. My only point is that AT&T simply can't keep up and Verizon is throttling things back to make sure it doesn't end up where AT&T is. The spectrum simply isn't there. Notice how the people who are actually experts on RF that participate in this forum are staying out of this discussion? You can claim "the market" will demand stuff all you want, but that's not going to change the laws of physics.

Don't want to believe me? Fine - believe these people.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/mobile/05/25/att.free.wifi.nyc.cnet/index.html

http://gothamist.com/2010/01/28/att_admits_new_york_city_3g_service.php

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/technology/07cell.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/03/technology/companies/03att.html

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...im_most_dropped_calls_least_satisfaction.html

As for my comments about the FCC potentially a conversion to HD tuners and your aversion to anything that isn't driven by market forces, there are plenty of TV stations in smaller markets who likely wish they had never been forced to invest in digital TV. There are a few TV stations in the major markets who are broadcasting the output of analog master controls through digital transmitters and it shows. The HDTV transition didn't happen without a government mandate, and it likely wouldn't have.

When it comes right down to it, forcing TV stations to switch to digital transmission didn't make a lot of sense. How many people actually watch HDTV over the air? Not many according to the cellular industry who desperately wants to take over all the spectrum broadcast TV has.

Gee? Why is that? If simple consumer demand and not physics are in charge here, why do they want or need more spectrum?

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscent...ants_120mhz_of_spectrum_from_tv_stations.html

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-20000586-266.html

http://www.dailytech.com/FCC+Looks+...+Give+to+Smartphone+Carriers/article18237.htm

 

[RadeoEngineer]

Apples iphone does so many neat things who wouldn't want one or two. Same for all the smart phones.
This technology will be driven by consumer demand and will advance!

Don't believe me, watch Atomic Tom play their music from the apps on their iphone. Strings and drums on their iphone..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAllFWSl998

That is amazing.

That is pretty cool. The guy sitting behind them looks a little annoyed.

 

[KB1OKL]

Apples iphone does so many neat things who wouldn't want one or two. Same for all the smart phones.
This technology will be driven by consumer demand and will advance!

Don't believe me, watch Atomic Tom play their music from the apps on their iphone. Strings and drums on their iphone..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAllFWSl998

That is amazing.

That is pretty cool. The guy sitting behind them looks a little annoyed.

I think this video illustrates in graphic detail what many people have been using an an argument against HD radio, could imagine a 23 year old kid standing in the background listening on an HD radio?

 

[TSL2]

Yes, do you see anyone on that train with a radio? And HD has failed to capture the imaginations of teens and young adults who're addicted to cool gadgets.
I'd easily say the most important target consumers, early adopters wanting a status symbol that demonstrates how cool they're!

 

[RadeoEngineer]

Apples iphone does so many neat things who wouldn't want one or two. Same for all the smart phones.
This technology will be driven by consumer demand and will advance!

Don't believe me, watch Atomic Tom play their music from the apps on their iphone. Strings and drums on their iphone..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAllFWSl998

I've never tried to use a radio on a subway, but I would think it could be kind of problematic.

That is amazing.

That is pretty cool. The guy sitting behind them looks a little annoyed.

I think this video illustrates in graphic detail what many people have been using an an argument against HD radio, could imagine a 23 year old kid standing in the background listening on an HD radio?

 

[TSL2]

Clear competes with AT&T and T-Mobile, but in the mobile internet market - not in the cell phone market. Different divisions of AT&T and T-Mobile are involved than we were discussing. Verizon has a toe in that water too, but is behind the others.

By the way, I don't "claim" that those entertainment platforms are going to take over the world - they just are. And you need to accept it. Your comment is the equivalent of blaming the weatherman for a rainy weekend when he tells you about it the day before.

Sprint is NOT enough of a competitor for AT&T or Verizon for them to change business strategies. Sprint's service is like swiss cheese in the more populated areas and is non-existent across huge swaths of the USA. Leave an interstate or big city in most of the south and you lose Sprint service. Upstate NY and central/western PA have next to nothing from Sprint and there's no service at all in most of SD, NE, NV and huge areas of other western states. The unstated fact from their coverage map is that they are light on cell coverage even where they supposedly offer it - fine perhaps in the cities, but weak in many suburbs. And that is in areas that are supposedly their strong markets.

Cricket uses the networks of Metro PCS and Sprint. Again, not a serious competitor of the big 2. T-Mobile is probably the closest thing to competition that AT&T and Verizon have in the wireless marketplace and it still has a long way to go. Basically it is a head to head competition with everyone else looking for the leftovers.

By the way, your comments about 'mandated' HD Radios are waaaaaay off! Honestly, this idea of the government forcing unfunded mandates on industries and consumers has gone far enough. Leave the government out of it! If the marketplace wants it, it will flourish; if not, it will die. As the latter thing is happening, you don't like it. Nor do you care for the example I have given of technology that is in growth mode.

Face it: NOBODY (with the exception of a few geeks here) CARES ABOUT HD RADIO!! Nobody. That's why it doesn't sell. That's why Apple sells more iTouch players in a day than Ibiquity sells HD Radios in a month.

But, if you insist on living in a place where market-driven demands are trumped by the whims of a small cabal of government leaders, there always is Venezuela.

Hey, I'm talking mobile internet. I bring mobile internet devices into the discussion to prove my point that AT&T and Verizon have a capacity problem and you have a cow. My only point is that AT&T simply can't keep up and Verizon is throttling things back to make sure it doesn't end up where AT&T is. The spectrum simply isn't there. Notice how the people who are actually experts on RF that participate in this forum are staying out of this discussion? You can claim "the market" will demand stuff all you want, but that's not going to change the laws of physics.

Don't want to believe me? Fine - believe these people.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/mobile/05/25/att.free.wifi.nyc.cnet/index.html

http://gothamist.com/2010/01/28/att_admits_new_york_city_3g_service.php

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/technology/07cell.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/03/technology/companies/03att.html

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...im_most_dropped_calls_least_satisfaction.html

As for my comments about the FCC potentially a conversion to HD tuners and your aversion to anything that isn't driven by market forces, there are plenty of TV stations in smaller markets who likely wish they had never been forced to invest in digital TV. There are a few TV stations in the major markets who are broadcasting the output of analog master controls through digital transmitters and it shows. The HDTV transition didn't happen without a government mandate, and it likely wouldn't have.

When it comes right down to it, forcing TV stations to switch to digital transmission didn't make a lot of sense. How many people actually watch HDTV over the air? Not many according to the cellular industry who desperately wants to take over all the spectrum broadcast TV has.

Gee? Why is that? If simple consumer demand and not physics are in charge here, why do they want or need more spectrum?

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscent...ants_120mhz_of_spectrum_from_tv_stations.html

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-20000586-266.html

http://www.dailytech.com/FCC+Looks+...+Give+to+Smartphone+Carriers/article18237.htm

Consumer demand will drive new innovations in mobile. The wireless companies have money and drive to find workarounds for expanded bandwidth.
You can bet on that. Radio won't disappear though the industry needs to innovate NOW, and HD hasn't caught on like other gadgets already have. The growth rate is to slow in an area when other devices are being brought to market that consumers like and are willing to buy.

Advertisers are demanding more accountability. Mobile and the internet offers instant measurable results through Google analytics. Analog cannot and HD penetration is small and without a two-way connection analytics isn't possible. The industry has yet to sell enough radios for anybody who's anybody to notice. The technology also has quality problems yet to be really solved. To make matters worse, broadcasters haven't really bought the cow yet. I'm mean they're still dating, but haven't made a serious effort.

A serious effort means giving aways free radios! Billboards and TV advertising their new stations. A computer in a dark room playing music like a jukebox doesn't count. So far after 10 years of this crap build it and they will come has failed! Waiting another 30 years simply isn't an option. Today 5 years in technology is equal to what once took 30 years in R&D, yes it's now moving that fast. HD cannot wait, it's now or never.

 

[tomservo]

I'm not so sure that a computer in a closet is such a bad thing.

No talentless yammering disc jockeys, no shouty commercials in six minute long breaks, no irrelevant traffic info, just music.

Having said that, trying to attract the (cynical, aloof) early adopters crowd is taking the wrong approach to growing HD penetration. The best bet is to copy the satellite radio model and subsidize the HD equipment so it won't cost automakers, mp3 player makers and clock radio makers more to include HD.

No one beyond us radio nose pickers are gonna shell out for a radio that's just a radio. Average Joe Consumer gets a radio free in his clock alarm, his home theater, his car. HD has to get itself in there without adding more than pennies to the bottom line.

 

[Savage]

"Subsidize HD radio equipment." Uh-huh. And where would the money come from to "subsidize HD," Zach? From other broadcasters?

Another redistributive money swap. Great. And of course, it would be administered by government, just to make sure politics thoroughly screws EVERYTHING up.

No, what HD needs to do is, exist and succeed in the real-world marketplace. Despite all kinds of dishonest intervention thus far on HD's behalf it's still stiffing. So that's the verdict on HD.

Time to move on to something more productive. Radio already has a robust, multi-source ubiquitous digital platform: streaming via the Internet.

 

[radiogooroo]

Time to move on to something more productive. Radio already has a robust, multi-source ubiquitous digital platform: streaming via the Internet.

And radio already does that. It's cheap and easy. Funny how we can rub our bellies and pat our heads at the same time.

 

[KB1OKL]

Time to move on to something more productive. Radio already has a robust, multi-source ubiquitous digital platform: streaming via the Internet.

And radio already does that. It's cheap and easy. Funny how we can rub our bellies and pat our heads at the same time.

For some reason I think that was already his point , so what's the point of self interfering, range limiting, expensive, no one knows nor cares IBOC?

 

[tomservo]

"Subsidize HD radio equipment." Uh-huh. And where would the money come from to "subsidize HD," Zach? From other broadcasters?

Another redistributive money swap. Great. And of course, it would be administered by government, just to make sure politics thoroughly screws EVERYTHING up.

No, what HD needs to do is, exist and succeed in the real-world marketplace. Despite all kinds of dishonest intervention thus far on HD's behalf it's still stiffing. So that's the verdict on HD.

Time to move on to something more productive. Radio already has a robust, multi-source ubiquitous digital platform: streaming via the Internet.

The money would come from iBiquity I guess, just like the money to put satellite radio in all these new cars came from Sirius and XM. I'm not talking about a stupid converter coupon program or anything, I'm talking about real competition. Er, bribery. It worked for satellite radio, it would work for HD. The only way to compete is to level the playing field and that's exactly what giving away nearly free HD decoders to the car manufacturers, home stereo makers and mp3 player crowd would do. The money paid for those stupid licenses should be put to subsidizing costs if it isn't already, and not into the pockets of the iBiquity's backing companies.

Streaming on the internet is all nice and stuff, but not everyone has a phone that can do that. As much of a tech nerd as I am, I don't know a single person who streams audio or video to their phones around here. I have one friend in NYC who loves Pandora, and that's it. The difference between HD and streaming is one of cost. HD is mindlessly expensive for a one time upgrade, then it's just licensing fees. Streaming only gets more expensive as its popularity grows.

I'll be honest… I know neither the cost of a modern full power HD upgrade nor the cost of streaming to 25,000 listeners for hours each day. But I'll wager the only reason we don't hear more owners complaining of streaming costs is because so relatively few listen. There's also the exorbitant cost of a smartphone, getting locked into a 2 year contract, spotty 3G service and expensive data plans that are all metered. Exactly how is a poor person such as myself supposed to pay for all that, when the little Insignia is the cost of one month's phone service? Small price to pay to keep up with local news.

I'm moving back to suburban Alabama in less than a week and leaving rural Mississippi behind. But I still won't have 3G available to me unless I go outlay tons of $$$ to switch to Verizon or AT&T. Instead, I'll just use my little HD radio and enjoy the stations, analog and digital, that I get. Including one of the big news talk outlets which is carried on the HD-2 of the only classic rock station in town. Where I'll be living, it'll be the only way to hear it at night. Nice.

 

[KB1OKL]

"Subsidize HD radio equipment." Uh-huh. And where would the money come from to "subsidize HD," Zach? From other broadcasters?

Another redistributive money swap. Great. And of course, it would be administered by government, just to make sure politics thoroughly screws EVERYTHING up.

No, what HD needs to do is, exist and succeed in the real-world marketplace. Despite all kinds of dishonest intervention thus far on HD's behalf it's still stiffing. So that's the verdict on HD.

Time to move on to something more productive. Radio already has a robust, multi-source ubiquitous digital platform: streaming via the Internet.

The money would come from iBiquity I guess, just like the money to put satellite radio in all these new cars came from Sirius and XM.

I would not guess that ibiquity is exactly choking with cash these days

I'm not talking about a stupid converter coupon program or anything, I'm talking about real competition. Er, bribery. It worked for satellite radio, it would work for HD.

One big difference Satellite actually works and offers relatively good programming and a lot of choice, it was better before the merger but it still beats FM for music choice hands down.

 

[KB1OKL]

HD is mindlessly expensive for a one time upgrade, then it's just licensing fees. Streaming only gets more expensive as its popularity grows.

I'll be honest… I know neither the cost of a modern full power HD upgrade

Calling an IBOC conversion an upgrade is like calling putting a Yugo engine into a Ferrari and upgrade.

 

[tomservo]

I would not guess that ibiquity is exactly choking with cash these days

Up until VERY recently, neither was Sirius and XM. Even post merger they are not awash in tons of cash. But they managed to find a way to make it happen, because they knew it was the best strategy versus getting people to buy clunky add on radios and run wiring all over the place.

One big difference Satellite actually works and offers relatively good programming and a lot of choice, it was better before the merger but it still beats FM for music choice hands down.

That is true. I wish I still had kept my XM subscription because I dearly enjoyed many of the channels. But post merger they all just took a big hit. Uncle Mel is about the money, not the listeners.

It's funny though, the only reason satellite "works" is because of all the (often illegally placed) ground repeaters put up by both companies. If you have to depend solely on the birds then you'll see it's not nearly as reliable as people say. I know, because I got XM when I lived in a major metro and almost never experienced dropouts. Then I moved to the country and every summer about 1/4 the roads I travel would have long interruptions in service because of tree canopies. I remember a stretch of interstate (I-81?) in VA where the signal went out for about 7 minutes as the road snaked around some tall mountains.

Heck, it took me 20 minutes of antenna tweaking just to get a signal for the home dock in my bedroom. I don't think it's fair to dis HD by saying people don't want to fiddle with an antenna but say satellite works when the same is true of that. I had to run the antenna cable across the floor and to the window sill before it would work reliably. Somehow I doubt the same would work in a north facing flat in crowded NYC.

 

[Chuck]

The money would come from iBiquity I guess, just like the money to put satellite radio in all these new cars came from Sirius and XM.

What makes you think Ibiquity has any cash? What they have mostly comes from broadcasters and licensing radio receivers. Guess who actually pays for that?

 

[Don Juannn]

One big difference Satellite actually works...

Premise #1...it works?

offers relatively good programming and a lot of choice

Premise #2...good programming and a lot of choice?

but it still beats FM

Premise #3.....It's very hard to beat "free". ;-)

 

[Savage]

I have no idea how parroting KB's responses advances the discussion, but I would offer, regarding "responses 1 and 2"....yes, satellite works (technically) to a satisfactory degree (as opposed to HD, which does not) and it does offer pretty good (not ideal) programming and tons of choice. There are hundreds of channels on the Bird, as opposed to a max of FOUR on an HD-FM, and whatever faults XM-Sirius' programming have - the material beats lame, repetitive formats-in-a-box, simulcasts of News-Talk AMs and out-of-market sister FM products. (And another prevalent HD-FM subchannel format: "dead air," frequently programmed because the closet computer has frozen or crashed and nobody's got time or interest to fix it.)

As far as the argument "it's hard to beat free," I would differ. If consumers think a product has no merit, they won't touch it even if it IS free. Examples: like most cities, we have one of those free-circulation "City" newspapers here full of lefty news and personal ads for hookup dating lines, massage parlors and "adult entertainment" venues. They leave stacks of these papers in coffee houses and laundromats, and 98% go into the recycling bins unread.

Then there was the local big radio group who partnered with a leading car dealer to give a free HD Radio converter with every car sold. After 90 days the dealership asked station management to come and pick them up. Nobody wanted HD radio, even when it cost NOTHING.