• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Time For An AM Radio Revival

This is the title of an article in the latest (12/16) RW by Stephen Winzenburg, a communications professor Grand View University.

He begins by stating that in nearly half of the top 20 markets, AM stations rank in the #1 or #2 categories. Mr. Winzenburg then debunks the idea that young audiences don't listen to AM because of audio quality.

"...many have never even listened to an AM signal to know what kind of quality it is", and then he mentions the noisy environment and poor quality audio devices that kids are willing to endure to listen to music.

Instead he insists that it is content that either attracts or repels young audiences. In the minds of the young, AM radio is associated with either "boring serious talk or music their friends would never be caught dead listening to." He then points to the success of Radio Disney in promoting and selling out Hannah Montana and Jonas Bros. concerts but that when pre-teens grow up they have to switch to FM to get their "music fix" because there is nothing equivalent on AM.

Mr. Winzenburg then offers some suggestions on how AM stations can revive and thrive going forward.

It is a terrific article and shows that you don't HD Radio to save AM but, rather, some creativity.

c5
 
It's inevitable. As the seasons wheel through an equinox, so will radio's fortunes return from self-preservation mode to actual forward thinking and abandonment of the nihilistic mindset which has saddled the industry with content-free programming, obscene "morning circus" shows offering cynical local talkers badgering porn stars and nude dancers, and HD Radio.

Among their dead wood up in the management suites, eventually radio companies will discover forward thinkers who don't obsess on "digital" and other losing initiatives and actually think like radio listeners.

At that point, the disused and ignored AM facilities will suddenly be recognized for what they are: real, no-foolin' potential revenue producers. And at that point programming will improve, Decepticons will be shut down to be cannibalized for parts, and the audiences will come back. Perhaps slowly at first - but they will return, as long as there is compelling, interesting programming to listen to.

It's tiring to listen to the same old self-defeating "can't do" attitudes in radio "leadership," such as it is. They all think they've got all the answers. Yet nothing they do works. HD is typical, and symptomatic.
 
Carmine5 said:
Instead he insists that it is content that either attracts or repels young audiences. In the minds of the young, AM radio is associated with either "boring serious talk or music their friends would never be caught dead listening to." He then points to the success of Radio Disney in promoting and selling out Hannah Montana and Jonas Bros. concerts but that when pre-teens grow up they have to switch to FM to get their "music fix" because there is nothing equivalent on AM.

I wondered when somebody would start taking what is happening on Radio Disney seriously. The Hannah Montana / Miley Cyrus phenomenon might have happened without Radio Disney - but a national 70 station network certainly didn't hurt. There is no doubt that Disney created a mainstream radio artist, and their radio network helped. So - where are the ratings to back it up? I think the ratings methodology might be flawed, and under reporting the listenership somehow. Difficult to know. But somewhere - masses of kids listened to Miley Cyrus, and translated that fandom into calls to top-40 stations requesting her music. That means somebody was listening to the mouse - somebody that somehow got overlooked.

The Jonas Brothers are in an uncomfortable position of needing a mainstream top-40 hit - NOW - or else risk being relegated to the stable of former Disney wannabes. Can we say Raven, Aly and AJ, etc. The next crop of possibles is already being positioned - Demi Lovato, Selena Gomez. Talent does NOT automatically translate into top-40 hits, even with the mouse behind you. But - fans turned the tide for Miley, they may do it again for somebody like Selena or Demi.

As for kids turning to adult AM listenership - I think that the presence of new artists is only part of the issue. Kids love to "graduate" to harder core lyrics, it makes them feel more adult. Whether that is on AM or FM is immaterial - if they listen to MP3's through tiny earbuds, musical quality is not an issue. A large number also listen on iPod docking stations where the speakers are a foot apart - across the room it may as well be mono. So a more adult AM network aimed at older kids / young adults might be viable - as in Disney's competitor Nickelodeon which is fixing to launch its own stable of recording artists like Victoria Justice and Ariana Grande, not to mention Big Time Rush. All that is needed is the desire to go out and buy AM stations in every major market to start a network.

Another interesting aspect going on here - I switched to FM as a kid to get music I couldn't get on AM. Forbidden language in album cuts. Fiddling with a finicky old tube FM radio before finally getting a better tuner - for CONTENT - not DX'ing although the reality of 300 mile FM reception (mind blowing to me even now) made the two go hand in hand. But it was musical content that drove me - having to put up antennas and deal with very weak signals was an aggravation, not a hobby. So the underground album rock of the late 60's and early 70's may have been a content based revolution spurring FM, not audio quality. I know that my reputation as a complete electronics nerd in high school completely vanished when I could provide the really cool music from distant FM stations for parties - all of the sudden I was a very popular content provider! I wish I had had the foresight to start an album rock station in that pathetic town, I would be very wealthy today!

Now fast forward 40 years. Who is the underground content provider, and why? Radio Disney - because of artists other stations aren't playing. Artists introduced outside the system, going around traditional record companies. Interesting. The only difference is that this music is clean, instead of being underground lyrics about drugs and sex like it was in the 60's. Strange indeed if Disney happens to have stumbled upon a new type of "underground rock" and uses it to revitalize AM, instead of fuel the switch from AM to FM - it goes the other direction!
 
See, guys? Now THAT's what I mean. Great post, rbruce. Merry Christmas to all of us. Let's turn the page in 2010 and get leadership and creativity back that made our industry both legendary and an indispensable part of American life...for over 50 years!
 
I meant to say: It is a terrific article and shows that you don't need HD Radio to save AM but, rather, some creativity.

I realize that a certain predatory poster will disagree with all of this. But as far as I'm concerned, Stephen Winzenburg is the expert, not this guy.

The point about inept management is right on the money. What can you expect to happen when some yo yo decides to load up an entire weekend programming schedule with infomercials as is happening with the once-proud L.A. station, KFWB? Sure it's a business decision, it's also an audience killer and can only serve to further the damage being done to AM.

And look who the heads of major radio companies are hiring in management positions; ex-hotel managers and ex-bankers. Yeah, they sure know a lot about running radio stations.

The author also points out that Disney artists are successful despite the fact that they don't get airplay on top 40 stations, showing that pre-teens do listen to Radio Disney. It's a shame that AM is getting excluded from so many portable listening devices. This is a trend that needs to change.

c5
 
Radio Disney in LA has probably the worst audio quality of any AM station in LA. Even HD doesn't help. Station in HD is in mono. I was hoping to hear how AM stereo sounds in HD. The Miley Cyrus crew must really like her to put up with that sound.
 
How I WISH the mouse would turn off the hiss generator and put things back the way they were before! I used to listen to the local RD outlet all the time, and even though it is not a great facility it sounded worlds better than today. You are right! I can't figure out how kids can stand to listen to such dreadful sound! The worst possible thing you could do for a music format is restrict the bandwidth to telephone circuit quality.

How many kids are listening on HD AM radios? ANY??? I doubt it! If they would just take it out of the audio chain and open up the bandwidth, things would be so much better! Actually, I wish they would go back to AM Stereo, but I know that's asking for too much from the current crop of radio engineers.
 
Carmine5 said:
I realize that a certain predatory poster will disagree with all of this. But as far as I'm concerned, Stephen Winzenburg is the expert, not this guy.

Yes, this academic has never met a payroll, never sold any advertising, never realized that it takes measurable listening (whether by ratings or by the cash register) to sell advertising

The fact that some markets still have viable AMs does not mean that AM has some advantage... it means that the format has not been forced yet to migrate to FM due to the ageing demos of any format of significance on AM.

The proof that AM is stigmatized and has a "red letter" on its forehead is that talk formats that have moved with no change to FM have increased radically their under-55 listening.

And the author fails to even mention that there are very few viable AMs in the major markets... in the top 100 markets, there are about two stations... that have viable signals day and night. The rest can't compete because they can't be heard.

As I said, all the cheerful things the writer describes are instantly deflated under the light of the sun of the real world.

The point about inept management is right on the money. What can you expect to happen when some yo yo decides to load up an entire weekend programming schedule with infomercials as is happening with the once-proud L.A. station, KFWB? Sure it's a business decision, it's also an audience killer and can only serve to further the damage being done to AM.

CBS did a very bright thing when it was obvious that LA had only 3 to 4 total shares for all-news. They concentrated on one station, which can be profitable despite the costs of this the most expensive of formats. KFWB has a very marginal signal at best, and is the over-quota facility in the CBS portfolio... it will likely have to be sold. And when it is, the chances of it being a general market mass appeal station are about zero.

And look who the heads of major radio companies are hiring in management positions; ex-hotel managers and ex-bankers. Yeah, they sure know a lot about running radio stations.

CFO's gnerally come from the financial side... now and in the past. And perhaps radio companies need some of the skills that other industries have acquired to surviver. Curiosity: who is the former hotel manager?

The author also points out that Disney artists are successful despite the fact that they don't get airplay on top 40 stations, showing that pre-teens do listen to Radio Disney. It's a shame that AM is getting excluded from so many portable listening devices. This is a trend that needs to change.

Disney artists are promoted mostly by Disney TV and video outlets, including the internet options.

AM is excluded from portable devices for a simple reason: you can't easily put an am receiver inside what is essentially a computer (smart phone, mp3 device, etc.) because of the noise emissions. Further, AM needs a more robust antenna, which, were it made to fit, would likely not pick up much of anything.
 
K6JHU said:
Radio Disney in LA has probably the worst audio quality of any AM station in LA. Even HD doesn't help. Station in HD is in mono. I was hoping to hear how AM stereo sounds in HD. The Miley Cyrus crew must really like her to put up with that sound.

Yeah, I used to listen to KDIS 1110 when they were running C-QuAM AM stereo. Had a nice, sweet sound. Too bad the suits in charge ruined it.
 
In Reply #8, the unfailingly snide and sarcastic David Eduardo said,
Yes, this academic has never met a payroll, never sold any advertising, never realized that it takes measurable listening (whether by ratings or by the cash register) to sell advertising

And exactly how do you “know” that, David? Did you look up his curriculum vitae?

The editor’s note at the end of the article tells us Professor Winzenburg has worked at 16 radio stations, including WHO. It doesn't say in what capacity he worked at those stations. But most people who have worked in radio that much have learned quite a bit about all aspects of the business, not just the phase of the business they’re involved in. He sounds like a credible expert to me.

For those of you interested in the Radio Disney angle, I recommend the thread “Radio Disney good scores high with Moms and Kids, but WWJZ??” (yes, with two question marks) on the Philadelphia board.
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again. AM radio reminds me of a lot of inner cities where I've worked. These were places that were once filled with expensive shops and stores, and now filled mainly with wig shops and dollar stores. A lot of people still commute to jobs there, but then they hop on the freeway to their nice home in the suburbs. They don't stay after dark. Lots of local politicians talk about urban renewal, and devoting more money to reviving these cities. But at the end of the day, a lot of these cities remain unchanged, even after all the money spent on Performing Arts Centers and mixed income housing.

We used to call people who took their families into the desolate, untamed parts of this country pioneers. They rode wagon trains into uncivilized areas, risking their lives, but they held firm in their conviction that a better day was ahead. The key was traveling in wagon trains. One family in a wagon was bound to get killed. Same with a single AM operator with just one station. Try and open a fancy restaurant in a ghetto. See how many customers come at night.

What AM radio needs is an ORGANIZED revival. That is the word missing. AM operators need to band together and work as a group. AM radio needs pioneers, banding together in a wagon train, taking their vision for what they do into the desolation and static known as the AM band. Someone who will seek to do more than conservative talk and sports. Or religion and ethnic. Who will be AM's pioneers?
 
Pioneers were not naysayers. All things go in cycles. My grandparents left the farm to work in the steel mills of Gary.
My parents left Gary to live in a "nice clean" suburb in the 1950's, where I grew up. By the tme I was 10, I knew I would be
moving to Chicago when that became possible. I moved to one of the densest areas of the city, while people were still fleeing.
Guess what? Property values began rising, and now my house is worth 4x what I paid for it, because fewer people want to make that drive back and forth to the suburbs. My oldest daughter attends the highest rated grade school in the state, and the new college prep high school ( always neck-and-neck in competition for best in state ) is 3 blocks away. The main reason I left is because I find the suburbs relentlessly BORING. Just as I find FM radio's offerings relentlessly boring, except for college radio.

Radio is a three-legged stool. One leg is art, one leg is technology and one leg is business. Knock any one out and it doesn't
stand for long. It doesn't work too well when tipped up on only leg either, as is the current practice.

The business leg seems too blind to respect the other aspects, and reminds me of the story about when the body's parts argued over who was the boss. The story is not for polite company, but suffice it to say that the **** proclaimed it was the boss.
All the other parts laughed. So the **** shut up. The eyes became dull, the brain became foggy, etc, and all the other
parts of the body finally relented, and that's how the **** became boss. Apply this to radio, and we see why we are enjoying the current situation in radio so much.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Disney artists are promoted mostly by Disney TV and video outlets, including the internet options.

AM is excluded from portable devices for a simple reason: you can't easily put an am receiver inside what is essentially a computer (smart phone, mp3 device, etc.) because of the noise emissions. Further, AM needs a more robust antenna, which, were it made to fit, would likely not pick up much of anything.

Disney TV and video do a poor job of promoting the artists, as most videos are limited to one minute, and usually just one song at a time from the artist. Just a "sample" similar to what you can get from online stores. Unless you think that samples of music are enough to spur sales, something else is going on. I've already heard songs on RD that are not pushed on the video outlets - obviously the result of fans who buy the CD's, find songs on them they like, and then start requesting. Also - Disney video pushed and pushed Raven to no avail. Her show was popular, but no matter how often they played her music clips, nothing happened. Meanwhile other Disney artists that Disney wanted to abandon at the time - like Hillary Duff - were enormously popular.

I agree totally about the problems with AM. Don't get me started on bad microcontroller hardware design - I devoted a good section of a chapter in my book to bad decoupling techniques. These idiots that slap a 0.1uF capacitor on the power pin of the microcontroller (whew, decoupling's done) - they get what they deserved, clock harmonics all over the board. That 0.1uF capacitor value came from the 1960's and became ingrained in electronic design like a bad habit. Proper decoupling techniques take some time, which isn't likely to happen in the radio manufacturing mills in China, infamous for their re-use and re-use of "working" designs for years, sometimes decades. No engineers, only cloners over there. Fixing one of their reference designs to them is like doing open heart surgery without anesthetic - they resist and save face until you show them they can save 0.001 cents on each radio. Then they listen.
 
Tom Wells said:
Pioneers were not naysayers. All things go in cycles. My grandparents left the farm to work in the steel mills of Gary.
My parents left Gary to live in a "nice clean" suburb in the 1950's, where I grew up. By the tme I was 10, I knew I would be
moving to Chicago when that became possible. I moved to one of the densest areas of the city, while people were still fleeing.
Guess what? Property values began rising, and now my house is worth 4x what I paid for it, because fewer people want to make that drive back and forth to the suburbs. My oldest daughter attends the highest rated grade school in the state, and the new college prep high school ( always neck-and-neck in competition for best in state ) is 3 blocks away. The main reason I left is because I find the suburbs relentlessly BORING. Just as I find FM radio's offerings relentlessly boring, except for college radio.

Wow - this goes to show the diversity of people on this board. I avoid inner cities like the plague - crime, noise, pollution, crowding. My suburb may be boring, but it is quiet and safe. Expanding this to radio - there is a tendency to apply only the central city dwellers to the radio and IBOC situations. Some examples:

First adjacents? Don't exist at the center of cities.
IBOC? Need more power to penetrate high rises.
AM IBOC? Works well enough when you are five miles from the towers.
Type of HD receivers? Table models for people cramped in small apartments.
External antennas? Don't mention it because high rise dwellers can't put them up.

When you think about it, the list goes on and on.

Now from the suburb angle:

- First adjacents? More and more commonplace the farther out you go.
- IBOC? Need more power to go farther - at least they got that right.
- AM IBOC? Doesn't work at all. Good example - our local Radio Disney. Strong signal in an area near its transmitter. Go out 20 miles? Severe interference from other stations on the frequency makes receiving the analog signal almost impossible, let along the digital.
- Type of receivers? Component tuners are more of an option, but the trend is towards home theater. IBOC folks need to get HD in those home theater receivers. I haven't seen anything about that in the IBOC initiative.
- External antennas? A lot of HOA's forbid them. But attics can be used, and people are sneaky about where they put them. So HD is possible - if someone has the desire and ability to put up an antenna. I have the sneaky suspicion that only about 1% of listeners have the desire to do so. Still - the suburban environment is more quiet in an RF sense, because people are spread out more. So HD might have an easier time of it.

I've always looked at population density something like a Bell curve, with the central city very crowded, holding 50% of the population, with decreasing density as you move outward. But that still leaves 50% of the audience outside the central city in that model, and the advocates of any new system ignore them at their peril.
 
radioskeptic said:
And exactly how do you “know” that, David? Did you look up his curriculum vitae?

As a matter of fact, yes. What we find is a lot of "he worked at 16 stations" with little specificity; his specialty seems to be analyzing broadcast ministries and the evangelical use of broadcasting. The university where he teaches is a self proclaimed evangelical Lutheran school.

He was not a "bottom line responsible" manager.

The editor’s note at the end of the article tells us Professor Winzenburg has worked at 16 radio stations, including WHO.

Some were / are non-coms, of course. Some are not identified. And his WHO experience seems to be a weekend talk show, which, given market size and the average talker's weekend ratings, is hardly a "high point" in the sense of establishing credibility about owning and managing AM stations funded by private capital.

It doesn't say in what capacity he worked at those stations. But most people who have worked in radio that much have learned quite a bit about all aspects of the business, not just the phase of the business they’re involved in. He sounds like a credible expert to me.

To the contrary, most people who do not have final say responsibilty generally fail to understand a lot about the business. The good ones, properly mentored, learn rapidly, so I don't mean this as a put-down of non-managers. But the old axiom of "how to ruin a good seller: make them a sales manager" holds true... not everyone has a management perspective and not everyone understands business.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
First adjacents? Don't exist at the center of cities.
IBOC? Need more power to penetrate high rises.
AM IBOC? Works well enough when you are five miles from the towers.
Type of HD receivers? Table models for people cramped in small apartments.
External antennas? Don't mention it because high rise dwellers can't put them up.

When you think about it, the list goes on and on.

Now from the suburb angle:

- First adjacents? More and more commonplace the farther out you go.
- IBOC? Need more power to go farther - at least they got that right.
- AM IBOC? Doesn't work at all. Good example - our local Radio Disney. Strong signal in an area near its transmitter. Go out 20 miles? Severe interference from other stations on the frequency makes receiving the analog signal almost impossible, let along the digital.
- Type of receivers? Component tuners are more of an option, but the trend is towards home theater. IBOC folks need to get HD in those home theater receivers. I haven't seen anything about that in the IBOC initiative.
- External antennas? A lot of HOA's forbid them. But attics can be used, and people are sneaky about where they put them. So HD is possible - if someone has the desire and ability to put up an antenna. I have the sneaky suspicion that only about 1% of listeners have the desire to do so. Still - the suburban environment is more quiet in an RF sense, because people are spread out more. So HD might have an easier time of it.

In the case of Chicago, most of the AM stations licensed to the city, including all the blowtorches, transmit from the suburbs, anywhere from 15 to 30 miles from the Loop. IIRC, only 950, 1240, and 1390 actually have transmitters inside the city limits of Chicago.
 
In Reply #15, Stephen Winzenburg was the object of another attempted hatchet job by David Eduardo. This time the technique was guilt by association – association with a word.
The university where he teaches is a self proclaimed [shouldn’t that be “self-proclaimed”?] evangelical Lutheran school.
The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America is not “evangelical” in the same sense of the word as Jerry Falwell’s "Liberty University" or Pat Robertson’s "Regent University." In fact, Grand View University is a respectable academic institution, affiliated with a moderately liberal denomination.

Grand View doesn’t have its own radio station, but it does lease weekday evening time on the Class A of the Des Moines Public Schools, and the format is called “Edge 88” (see http://www.gvc.edu/aspx/audience/audience.aspx?pageid=1176&aid=10 ). That alone shows that it’s obviously not a creationist, climate change-denying Fundie school.

Back in 2005, St. Olaf College, another ELCA school, was forced to sell its longtime classical station, WCAL, because of financial difficulties. EMF wanted to buy it, but St. Olaf sold it to Minnesota Public Radio instead.

Not wanting to compete with its own classical format, MPR unfortunately flipped it to an eclectic pop format as “The Current.” But at least it wasn’t sold to EMF, which would have used it for satellite-fed pseudo-Christian pseudo-pop treacle, punctuated with short “teaching” segments that are in reality far more political than spiritual in nature, and invariably right-wing.

A St. Olaf official was quoted in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune on August 20, 2004 (“Losing Bidder: We offered 'a lot more' for WCAL") calling MPR’s plan “a much friendlier fit for the community.” He also said the college wanted to sell to “an entity that would reflect the values of St. Olaf” and that “we wanted to keep it local.”

It looks like David’s preferred mode of operation these days is to attack the sources cited by other R-I members whose positions he doesn’t like. But it doesn’t work very well – not when internet research is so easy.
 
radioskeptic said:
The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America is not “evangelical” in the same sense of the word as Jerry Falwell’s "Liberty University" or Pat Robertson’s "Regent University." In fact, Grand View University is a respectable academic institution, affiliated with a moderately liberal denomination.

I see. "Evangelical" has a different meaning when you use it than when I read it. The word means, in essence, "of a church that emphasizes the authority of the Bible, including the acceptance of Jesus Christ." Indeed, the archaic term "evangel" refers to the four Christian gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

You are saying, then, that either the Evangelical Lutheran Church or Liberty University does not accept the word of the Bible and Jesus Christ." OK.

It looks like David’s preferred mode of operation these days is to attack the sources cited by other R-I members whose positions he doesn’t like. But it doesn’t work very well – not when internet research is so easy.

Gee, and my source on the college was the college's own website, where the word "evangelical" is mentioned more than once.

In any event, the issue here is whether the writer has enough reality about running a commercial station to recommend all the absurd things he sugests (absurd, because they have been asked and answered in the past) in the article. In my opinion, he is not qualified to make such broad-based statements unless he is suggesting new directions for preachers and teachers and religious formatted stations.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
I've always looked at population density something like a Bell curve, with the central city very crowded, holding 50% of the population, with decreasing density as you move outward. But that still leaves 50% of the audience outside the central city in that model, and the advocates of any new system ignore them at their peril.

The thing is that radio has never programmed specifically to cities but to markets, and so there is a mix of higher density areas with lower density and even semi-rural or rural ones. AMs that don't cover all or close to all of today's market areas are not going to be significant players or competitors.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom