Time to vent!

[jake1966]

Hey Eli and Varulven, I grew up listening to BCN, ROR (the98.5 one) and even 68RKO. (Sisters and brother are older) However, by the 90s I was growing tired of the same Boston radio. Then in 01 went to one of those college stations..you know the one that says there in Medfor but most of the campus is in Somerville. And enjoyed doing my own thing. Left after a couple of years becasue the students drove me nuts but came back this summer to do my own thing again. (Plus hardly any students) so if you wanna check out what I enjoy (Sorry shameless plug here) or anyone else for that matter check out Thursdays 12 noon -2ish. I'm always open to requests and suggestions. Just love spinning tunes. (yes even records)

 

[Eli Polonsky]

Carter just told me...it it what it is...refering to the state of 'classic rock'.
By the way, I have also bumped into Carter at Symphony Hall (BSO) on a couple of occasions...so I guess somewhere in there is still a heart.

Carter's a really good guy who likes, and knows, a huge variety of music, but he does what he has to do for his day job. He also started as a community volunteer on college radio at WTBS->WMBR in the late 70's.

Check out Carter's "Sunday Morning Blues" show on WZLX Sundays 9 AM - 12 noon. He gets to do pretty much what he wants to do there. He has to maintain a balance that keeps (at least some of) the Classic Rock audience interested in the Blues, he has to mix it up between the playing the original (black) artists and the (white) rock'n'roll covers, but within that formula they let him have his reign over the tracks he plays. He throws in some new releases and local blues and blues/rock artists as well. It's one of the best shows on commercial radio in the area.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

Why can't an AOR station exist today? You hear about many people, lots probably who post here, who suscribe to XM/ Sirius, who want more variety in radio. Doesn't that represent a "market"?

The combined subscriber total for XM and Sirius is still less than one day's cume for WINS (slightly larger than 3% of the US population). Not a significant blip on anyone's radar.

Just a few comments here...if XM and Sirrius are pulling such a small listening audience, they might as well hang it up....it is all about profit margin, right?

The XM and Sirius listeners are an extremely small drop in each market's bucket, however their signals are national, so they are a tiny drop in every bucket across the USA. That adds up to enough people nationwide renting their transponders (and patronizing national sponsors) for them to survive, a source of income which terrestrial "free" stations which only serve one local market don't have.

If the audience is so narrow minded, why does "classic rock" radio stray even one inch away from what works...i.e., China Grove, Black Dog, Another Brick in the Wall, etc...and even venture beyond a song that was not a top 40 hit? Is it to show what remaining audience holding on to the last grain of sand of classic radio, that they still have integrity?
Why bother! All hits, all the time.

An occasional deeper cut, as long as it fits format in sound and attitude, particularly a lesser-played album track by a major core hit artist, can still help a Classic Rock station keep the faction of listeners who do want something besides the usual short-list of hits once in a while, but they have to keep those to a very limited basis especially during weekday work and drive-time hours, and nothing too deep, so that they don't lose their mainstream majority. It's a fine line that they choose to tread cautiously, and I really have seen stations around here tank their ratings when they've tried crossing it too often.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

RKO with its billboards and its giveaways doesn't see WBUR as competition - but it is a format that is absolutely their competition.

I don't think that WBUR considers WRKO to be much of any competition. The ideology, style, and audience is different. I think most listeners to either station would never listen to the other. WBUR is fairly unique in their offerings in this market, and they're just trying to put out the best product they can. I think they consider their main competitions to be WBZ for the hard news, and other major Public Radio stations like WGBH-FM (who they are trouncing in the ratings, despite WGBH duplicating some of the same national news programming, though WGBH has a smaller but loyal, well-heeled audience for their classical and jazz programming).

There is no facilitation of great local programming; no environment for the next Howard Stern to materialize from; the college radio stations are in such disarray we see them getting fined for simple things like The Public File or not shutting down properly...

WMBR at MIT won't get fined for those things. They may have student management attitude and programming problems from time to time, but they have their act together on their official stuff. Their Public File is impeccable, and their in-house engineer training procedure is thorough, including how to properly operate the transmitter within all legal parameters. All new DJ's must complete the training before they can operate the station without a supervising engineer present. At those levels, WMBR has their act more together than any other student-run station in the area.

... the students don't care - they use radio as a chance to showoff and screwup, the community volunteers everywhere get pushed around, if they aren't arrogant and in-power like at WMBR (which, I would imagine, doesn't sit well with a pro like Eli, who should be in charge with his seniority (said in a nice way as I'm in the same age group) and his vast knowledge).

I was WMBR's PD for two years in the mid-80's, during a period when there was no student available. MIT decrees that the GM and PD must be MIT students. I was their last non-student PD. I was also their Promotions Director from 1987 to 1995, and I still help out a bit in that department.

But, I wouldn't want another management position there again. WMBR is completely all-volunteer and totally non-profit. There are no paid personnel whatsoever, not even management. When I was WMBR PD in the mid-80's, I was living in an attic apartment room for $133/month rent. I could afford to work part-time, and spend a lot of time tending to stuff at WMBR. Those days are long gone.

I resigned from my weekly show two years ago partly because I no longer had the time for the volunteer work in today's economy, let alone volunteer management work. I'm considering possibly bringing the show back on a bi-weekly basis this fall (alternating weekly with retired AOR pioneer Larry Miller). Maybe every two weeks might not be too much volunteer burden for me, and there's certainly nowhere else (besides other lower powered college stations) where I could do my 60's/70's retro AOR style show around here these days.

 

[mcamp]

If the audience is so narrow minded, why does "classic rock" radio stray even one inch away from what works...i.e., China Grove, Black Dog, Another Brick in the Wall, etc...and even venture beyond a song that was not a top 40 hit? Is it to show what remaining audience holding on to the last grain of sand of classic radio, that they still have integrity?
Why bother! All hits, all the time.

An occasional deeper cut, as long as it fits format in sound and attitude, particularly a lesser-played album track by a major core hit artist, can still help a Classic Rock station keep the faction of listeners who do want something besides the usual short-list of hits once in a while, but they have to keep those to a very limited basis especially during weekday work and drive-time hours, and nothing too deep, so that they don't lose their mainstream majority. It's a fine line that they choose to tread cautiously, and I really have seen stations around here tank their ratings when they've tried crossing it too often.

I don't think a "deep cut" twice a day is keeping listeners who want something different on the edge of their seat....the only seat that best represents that scenario is a toilet seat.

Bottom line: I'm disappointed.
When I stumbled across this site, I felt like a kid in a candy shop.
I was amongst people of my own kind....people who love music, know music and want variety.
All I've heard is....that's impossible, you can't do that, profit margins, etc...lets just score a couple $352 Stones tickets, down a couple $7 beers at Gillette and forget about the whole thing.[/color]

 

[Eli Polonsky]

Hey Eli and Varulven, I grew up listening to BCN, ROR (the98.5 one) and even 68RKO.

I started with Top 40 in the mid-60's. WBZ (including Dick Summer's "soft underground" evening show "The Subway"), WMEX 1510 (the coolest, including Arnie "Woo-Woo" Ginsburg), and automated WRKO-FM 98.5 with "Arko, the shy but friendly robot". WILD 1090 was pumping out the soul and Motown from Roxbury in the daytime as well.

Talk WNAC became Top 40 "The Big 68" WRKO in spring '67 and stole the audience, and in '68 WRKO-FM became the original WROR and WBZ went A/C. Dale Dorman (now mornings on WODS) joined WRKO in '68.

WTBS (later to become WMBR) at MIT in '67 was playing "underground" album rock (the first place I ever heard the album version of "Light My Fire" that summer), folk, blues, 50's doo-wop ("Little Walter's Time Machine" debuted there in '68), and genuinely hilarious impromptu student Top-40/novelty shows.

Failing Classical station WBCN (Boston Concert Network) started commercial FM "underground" AOR in Boston with an overnight show called "The American Revolution" in March '68, and blew my little mind. It flipped to it as a full-time format shortly thereafter. One of the original DJ's was Sam Kopper, who can now be heard from 12:15 - 3 PM Sundays on WATD 95.9 Marshfield. Peter Wolf was there too. Charles Laquidara joined in '69. WHDH-FM 94.5 (now WJMN) briefly tried competing with automated AOR later in '68 (and then was live AOR again as WCOZ in the late 70's, bringing Larry Miller to Boston).

Those were some of the stations I listened to 1966-1968.

Then in 01 went to one of those college stations..you know the one that says there in Medfor but most of the campus is in Somerville. And enjoyed doing my own thing. Left after a couple of years becasue the students drove me nuts but came back this summer to do my own thing again. (Plus hardly any students) so if you wanna check out what I enjoy (Sorry shameless plug here) or anyone else for that matter check out Thursdays 12 noon -2ish. I'm always open to requests and suggestions. Just love spinning tunes. (yes even records)

The reason you left was the other reason I left my show on WMBR a couple of years ago, but the student management has turned over since then, and things are relatively cool there now. But, from year to year, you never know what may happen.

I've caught parts of your shows recently. Fun stuff, nice mix of music, and unlike some other DJ's on that station, you're not overmodulating your mic. It sounds like you know how to run a radio board properly.

 

[jake1966]

Thanks for the nice words Eli, glad you enjoy, love talking about boston radio, maybe one of these days u can call the station and pass on your email. (had it but lost it when we went to the new server)

 

[Eli Polonsky]

Bottom line: I'm disappointed.
When I stumbled across this site, I felt like a kid in a candy shop.
I was amongst people of my own kind....people who love music, know music and want variety.
All I've heard is....that's impossible, you can't do that, profit margins, etc...lets just score a couple $352 Stones tickets, down a couple $7 beers at Gillette and forget about the whole thing.

You're missing our point. We on this board would love it if stations played more variety and deeper music. We've been listening to radio for decades. Most of us are as sick of the same-old, same-old as you are. I seek out different music on college and public radio stations, and small independent stations.

However, we are not going to pretend that something that doesn't work among the masses in today's radio market is going to work, or that it should work. Many of us are in radio, have been in radio, know people who have been in radio, or are otherwise affiliated with the industry, and many of us have gotten behind the scenes looks at what's gone down over the past few decades. If stations could still prosper and survive doing 60's/70's style AOR programming in the major cities, they would still be doing it.

If you say today's major market commercial music radio sucks, we'll be the first to agree with you. You said: "I felt...I was amongst people of my own kind....people who love music, know music and want variety". You are, but you and we are a very small minority. We do not represent the majority of commercial radio listeners, we are not enough of a ratings force to float a major-market commercial station, and we are not going to blame the stations for not trying to cater to an audience that no longer exists in a form that can sustain them in a competitive sink-or-swim environment. We're as disappointed as you are, but we can tell you why what we would like to see doesn't work anymore.

And, I can't afford tickets to the Stones.

 

[kalimba]

unlike some other DJ's on that station, you're not overmodulating your mic. It sounds like you know how to run a radio board properly.

I think there is a processing problem over there. Dj's who know how to run a board mostly all sound distorted. Somehow the guest mic often sounds fine, but the main mike sounds like heck. I've mentioned it to management a few times, but they don't seem to want to address it. Drives me crazy, as a listener.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

I think there is a processing problem over there. Dj's who know how to run a board mostly all sound distorted. Somehow the guest mic often sounds fine, but the main mike sounds like heck. I've mentioned it to management a few times, but they don't seem to want to address it. Drives me crazy, as a listener.

Could be a combination of too much gain set on the main mic preamp, and possibly a poor or improperly set up compressor or processor in the airchain. The station sounds very muddy overall.

 

[SonicOverload]

Hey Eli and Varulven, I grew up listening to BCN, ROR (the98.5 one) and even 68RKO. (Sisters and brother are older) However, by the 90s I was growing tired of the same Boston radio. Then in 01 went to one of those college stations..you know the one that says there in Medfor but most of the campus is in Somerville. And enjoyed doing my own thing. Left after a couple of years becasue the students drove me nuts but came back this summer to do my own thing again. (Plus hardly any students) so if you wanna check out what I enjoy (Sorry shameless plug here) or anyone else for that matter check out Thursdays 12 noon -2ish. I'm always open to requests and suggestions. Just love spinning tunes. (yes even records)

this guy Scot I know is also doing a show there but I forget when it is... he has a great playlist.

 

[Bostonradiofan]

I don't think that WBUR considers WRKO to be much of any competition. The ideology, style, and audience is different. I think most listeners to either station would never listen to the other. WBUR is fairly unique in their offerings in this market, and they're just trying to put out the best product they can. I think they consider their main competitions to be WBZ for the hard news, and other major Public Radio stations like WGBH-FM (who they are trouncing in the ratings, despite WGBH duplicating some of the same national news programming, though WGBH has a smaller but loyal, well-heeled audience for their classical and jazz programming).

I think there are more people that listen to both than you think. I know each probably has diehards that listen to nothing else as all stations do but there is always going to be some crossover with so few options out there.

I drive about 15 hours a week for the job. I also listen to radio on the weekends at home. I listen to WRKO, WBUR, WBZ pretty regurally. Also listen to BCN, FNX, AAF, MBR, ERS, MFO, ZBC. Now I could be captured as a diehard, only listen to one station guy.

I have always respected your comments and thoughts posted here as I am mostly just a reader of these pages.

Joe V. has often been way over the top and seemingly looney tunes. I don't know the guy nor am I asking to start a fight with him. But as a listener and fan of local radio, local music, local talk I have to agree that he makes some great points about making local programming much more interesting. It's what I yearn for. I'ld love WRKO to go a little more like WBUR. Though I disagree with Howie Carr on most things, his show is great. WRKO needs to find a local version of that with a hard core left wing slant to replace some of the other not as good WRKO shows. Scotto's show is ok, I liked when he had Johnny Angel in co-hosting. Johnny Angel could pull it off from the shows I heard where he filled in on WRKO mornings.

WBCN last night was great with Hardvark and Roadsteamer. Funny, smart, cutting, topical, listeners calling in. I like their show at night.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

I'ld love WRKO to go a little more like WBUR. Though I disagree with Howie Carr on most things, his show is great. WRKO needs to find a local version of that with a hard core left wing slant to replace some of the other not as good WRKO shows.

The question is, how much of WRKO's audience listen because they identify with the right-wing ideology they usually espouse? If that's a lot of their listenership as I suspect it is, then they would risk a major ratings loss by adding a left-wing show and not catering to their established audience.

 

[Bostonradiofan]

That's the conventional wisdom. It's a conventional wisdom that is middling in this market.

Have the best shows/personalities and people will listen. I listen to Howie Carr and I am not right wing in any way. It's because he is the best at what he does in Boston.

If you have a co-hosted show like Scotto and Angel, you have a strong right and left wing personalities that meet in the middle as populists that get young culture and love music and are both artists themselves. That show would be number one if given a chance.

Put better stronger working class people, left and right on the radio.

Robby Roadsteamer is the funniest person on Boston radio today.

Alan Colmes no, Johnny Angel yes.

I'm not espousing that WRKO put on the AL FRANKEN show. It's a gradual shift to add some strong people to the programming.


For example, WAAF Hillman show was better when Mike Hsu was on there becuase there was one guy on it that wasn't like all the others.

I'ld love WRKO to go a little more like WBUR. Though I disagree with Howie Carr on most things, his show is great. WRKO needs to find a local version of that with a hard core left wing slant to replace some of the other not as good WRKO shows.

The question is, how much of WRKO's audience listen because they identify with the right-wing ideology they usually espouse? If that's a lot of their listenership as I suspect it is, then they would risk a major ratings loss by adding a left-wing show and not catering to their established audience.

 

[Varulven]

Alan Colmes

Now that Alan Colmes has a national name (what did he do on WZLX? Was he co-host with Jeff morning man back in 1989???) it would be great to see him 9 to noon on RKO.

Johnny Wendell/John Carmen (or Johnny Stockbroker as the rockers called him) - Johnny Angel - Stock broker turned radio host - is OK. When he veers off about "I had a Boston band..." - yes, we know, Johnny, you had several Boston bands. What does that have to do with the Middle East conflict?

 

[raccoonradio]

Isn't the Colmes show for Fox News Radio on from 10 pm-1 am? I don't know if they'd run a show with an 11 hour time delay....a show from "last night"

Colmes old show that used to air on stations like WKOX and WCAP wasn't bad, and I also enjoyed his Fox NewsRadio show (the one he does now) which WRKO briefly ran.

 

[Bostonradiofan]

Re: Alan Colmes

Now that Alan Colmes has a national name (what did he do on WZLX? Was he co-host with Jeff morning man back in 1989???) it would be great to see him 9 to noon on RKO.

Johnny Wendell/John Carmen (or Johnny Stockbroker as the rockers called him) - Johnny Angel - Stock broker turned radio host - is OK. When he veers off about "I had a Boston band..." - yes, we know, Johnny, you had several Boston bands. What does that have to do with the Middle East conflict?

Talk radio has to be all about the Middle East conflict?

I like hearing rockers dish the dirt on music and the people they've known and things that have gone down behind the scenes. That's what the number one guy in radio did. Howard Stern. Not a rock guy but his show is that way.

 

[PugUgly]

Talk radio has to be entertaining and informative.

The Middle East is one of many topics and every news/talk host talks about it, it's the #1 news story every day. Beating it to death isn't what anyone wants to hear, however. That a host mentions what they do or did by way of setting up a topic is also what every host does.

Not understanding that simple formula might explain why some people are chronically unemployable in the field that they're obsessed with.

 

[SonicOverload]

I doubt you'll hear Johnny Angel in this market. He seems to be very content in LA...

 

[Varulven]

Pug Ugly Wrote:
"Not understanding that simple formula might explain why some people are chronically unemployable in the field that they're obsessed with."


It is true - which is why they make listening to regional radio such a difficulty for hardcore fans. Which is why the fans tune in to superior college radio like WZBC and the "on air personalities" get fired or pushed to a few hours weekly and bash those who critique them. It seems to be the inevitable route for a certain mid-day host on "the talk station".

It is amazing how thin-skinned on-air "personalities" are desperate for an audience but resist information which could help them find that audience. Attacking the messenger isn't going to get the ratings up, and kissing the backside of those in power can only last so long. At some point the advertisers start to look (and find) something more effective. As the Merovingian says in The Matrix, "it is the way of all things."