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Tom Kent on HD Radio: "OMG - WTF!"

Now if we could just get Young Thomas to play something worth listening to on his nightly show more people would listen and not need HD to "enhance" it.
 
dumber than a box of hair said:
Tom Kent, CEO of the Tom Kent Radio Network and formerly with WLS/Chicago, acts like a ten-year-old...er, waxes enthusiastic about HD radio.

http://www.allaccess.com/net-news/archive/story/105613/tom-kent-defends-hd-radio?ref=mail_recap

He says it's the best thing since AM stereo.

Wow. Just...wow.
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Here is what I posted over there in response:

My main concern with AM HD is driver safety. HD AM is very sensitive to interference. A listener in a car, passing under a power line, hears a very nice AM HD signal, abruptly interrupted by a very loud powerline hash. The driver is startled by the change. Listening in analog, the volume of the powerline hash slowly increases, giving the driver time to turn it down. With a range of 10 miles or less, compared to a range of 300 miles for C-Quam AM stereo, a large city station would be foolish to deploy a defective system that could only reach a fraction of their listening area. And as large footprint stations have discovered in Texas, AM HD severely limits their coverage and their building penetration. As for FM HD radio, the sound improvement only comes when the station runs only an HD-1. The moment they add HD-2, the quality deteriorates badly to almost the level of satellite radio. The difference between HD-FM and regular analog FM, though, is only discernable on a very high end audio system. The difference in noise floor would be indistinguishable in the automotive platform. FM HD also badly degrades analog coverage - by as much as 60 miles on some Texas stations. Therefore, it also will degrade building penetration locally. FM HD also suffers very badly from airplane flutter, reducing FM coverage to just a few miles in the vicinity of airports. Given the lock time of the HD radio, persons living near approach paths to airports cannot expect reliable HD reception at any time a flight is in approach or departure, as signal fluctuations can be as much as 60 dB. I am pleased that the author finds his local HD-2 selections compelling. Houston HD offers me only two formats of any interest, one of which will soon be available over the air. Compared to dozens of compelling formats on satellite - none of which are available on HD-2, the choice is very clear.
 
Zach said:
Interesting reading the comments over there, there are actually HD defenders commenting. So much different from here where they get run off by the rabble.
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Uh - what defenders? Have you actually looked at the posts over there? 3 out of 20, maybe, if you take sarcasm out of the mix? BTW, thanks for the "rabble" comparison. It loses the debate when you attack the person and not what they are saying. What, if anything, have I ever said about HD radio that is incorrect?
 
I have a love-hate relationship with HD radio. I hate the IBUZ and bad HD reception (those are mutually exclusive under this flawed system). But I love my portable HD radio and Sony XDRF1HD, and some of my favorite stations are HD2s, plus it's nice when DXing an HD station during e-skip, the call letters show up
 
It would be nice if AM was noise free like FM, but so far HD Radio has proven an ineffective way of doing it. It doesn't deal with the noise, it only covers it up by using digital so you don't notice the noise. But then the cliff effect causes you to go from a good sounding signal to nothing. There really is no way to deal with the noise on the mediumwave band by modern electronics other than targeting the source. HD should deal with short bursts of noise using its buffer, but has so far proven ineffective against that. Look at videos on youtube of lightning discharge taking out an AM HD signal close to its tower.

The sound quality absolutely blows away satellite radio which I also have in my car.
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Well thats not hard to do, satellite radio sounds compressed more than HD radio, especially if the station is running 2 or 1 HD channels. I can't see myself ever paying for that low quality audio they call satellite radio.

HD terrestrial radio sounds even better than a CD
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Something is wrong with your CD player or CDs then. One of the things that stands out the most for me in any low bit rate lossy digital audio compression method (HD Radio, mp3s, etc) is that percussion instruments sound artificial or weak. On CDs they sound quite a bit more realistic, not sure if its the higher sampling rate or better bit rate.

HD on FM will likely out survive HD on AM. It will stick around as a way to feed translators and also in densely populated areas as a way to serve minorities, missing formats and AM simulcasts. For those big rural FM stations that get out 70-100 miles, HD will never be able to serve the same are that analog can.
 
spunker88 said:
It would be nice if AM was noise free like FM, but so far HD Radio has proven an ineffective way of doing it. It doesn't deal with the noise, it only covers it up by using digital so you don't notice the noise. But then the cliff effect causes you to go from a good sounding signal to nothing. There really is no way to deal with the noise on the mediumwave band by modern electronics other than targeting the source. HD should deal with short bursts of noise using its buffer, but has so far proven ineffective against that. Look at videos on youtube of lightning discharge taking out an AM HD signal close to its tower.

The sound quality absolutely blows away satellite radio which I also have in my car.
Click to expand...
Well thats not hard to do, satellite radio sounds compressed more than HD radio, especially if the station is running 2 or 1 HD channels. I can't see myself ever paying for that low quality audio they call satellite radio.

HD terrestrial radio sounds even better than a CD
Click to expand...
Something is wrong with your CD player or CDs then. One of the things that stands out the most for me in any low bit rate lossy digital audio compression method (HD Radio, mp3s, etc) is that percussion instruments sound artificial or weak. On CDs they sound quite a bit more realistic, not sure if its the higher sampling rate or better bit rate.

HD on FM will likely out survive HD on AM. It will stick around as a way to feed translators and also in densely populated areas as a way to serve minorities, missing formats and AM simulcasts. For those big rural FM stations that get out 70-100 miles, HD will never be able to serve the same are that analog can.
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Out in the flat lands of Minnesota, the 100000 watt Minneapolis FM stations can be heard in HD with few or no dropouts out to 40 miles. But they're gone after 50 miles, whereas the analog is still good for 30 more miles. The Minneapolis stations can be heard well in Rochester, about 80 miles away, with little static. But there's no trace of HD in Rochester.
 
So: iBiquity desperately recruited a lonely left-coast broadcaster who wanted a little industry notoriety. Yawn. Or maybe - just maybe, although I doubt it - there is a solitary new HD Fanboy out there. It doesn't matter. You can barely buy the receivers any more (Darth notwithstanding), more stations are turning HD off than turning it on, and public awareness of HD Radio - never very high - is declining. Broadcasters and the public have rejected this for the turkey which it is.

It will hang around indefinitely like AM C-Quam stereo, but digital radio now = the internet. And for a few stations carried on XM/Sirius like Z100. There is nothing wrong with this model. After all, most people watch TV via cable and satellite, not from OTA signals.

There you have it - just another comment from The Rabble. Hey, I fail to see how posting comments critical to HD Radio "runs off" the proponents. Actually, I just think there aren't many proponents left: it's tiring and embarassing constantly defending the indefensible. After a while, HD boosters incapable of validating their fatally defective system run out of insults to level at the critics.
 
Nick said:
Out in the flat lands of Minnesota, the 100000 watt Minneapolis FM stations can be heard in HD with few or no dropouts out to 40 miles. But they're gone after 50 miles, whereas the analog is still good for 30 more miles. The Minneapolis stations can be heard well in Rochester, about 80 miles away, with little static. But there's no trace of HD in Rochester.
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I had much better luck with Minneapolis stations along I-90. Almost to the South Dakota line on I-90. Of course this was no HD and a Pioneer Supertuner 3D with a 31 inch whip. I think HD kind of took a hit because whip antennas are being phased out in cars. What would be needed for reliable HD reception is exceptional antennas and exceptional front ends.
 
Savage said:
It doesn't matter. You can barely buy the receivers any more
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You can barely buy any radio anymore. In the Southern California / Arizona area where I live, the only radios in "Radio Shack" are those hand-crank wind-up emergency radio-flashlight combos.

Today, unless a "smart" device has a radio, or your phone dock has a radio or unless you buy a car with a radio, single-purpose radios are barely being sold any more.
 
Here's where some challenge rests with HD Radio:

-iBiquity licenses the HD Radio technology to radio stations and product manufacturers. They don't build the radios, and (to my knowledge) they don't get a per-unit fee for radios that are manufactured and sold. They simply license the technology.

-Individual stations license the technology on a per-station basis. As I understand it, iBiquity licenses the technology using RAND (reasonable and non-discriminatory) pricing and that's as far as it goes. What the station does with the HD technology (and programming of side-channels) is not something with which iBiquity gets involved.

-The hardware required for upgrading to digital/HD broadcasting I'm told is expensive, though I don't know the specifics on it.

-Unlike Sirius and XM in the arms race days, there has been no huge push to put HD Radio in cars. Remember when Sirius and XM were striking deals left and right with auto makers for exclusive rights to be in Company X's new cars/trucks, complete with free trials? Part of the appeal there was that you could get that programming anywhere, from an open stretch of highway in rural west Texas to driving the I-4 corridor in Florida. With HD Radio, there is the problem of some markets having zero sideband offerings (and some areas without any HD Radio, even on the HD-1 side) compounded by there being no major radio company being motivated to lobby/cut deals with automakers to put HD Radio in their cars.

-Neither Clear Channel nor Cumulus nor CBS Radio nor the rest want to be the sole force out there pushing for auto makers to include HD Radio. And, while the NAB might have interest in doing so, it also has members that are not involved with licensing HD Radio, which I suspect is a limiting factor in how much of a push it makes on that front. Resources are limited.

Again, unlike what is now SiriusXM, it's not like it all falls under one umbrella. Plus, without a monthly subscription fee motivation, the NAB and major companies don't have the same financial incentive to push for it. And with radio companies cutting costs to the bone (and/or going through bankruptcy) and vehicle manufacturers trying to keep the cost of new cars and trucks as low as possible while still providing quality for drivers... you can see how this is a problem.


I'm sure, for many of you, this isn't any sort of breaking news or new discovery. But it's the reality of the situation and doesn't even begin to cover the issue of signal strength or AM HD (and the potential/real interference problems involving both).

I wish HD Radio the best, and there are examples of where sideband programming can be a positive thing, like what Cromwell has done in Nashville by simulcasting 102.5 the Game (WPRT-FM) on the HD2 sideband channel of 102.9 the Buzz (WBUZ), providing coverage to the SE side of town where it was dicey and especially to Murfreesboro (college town to the SE with 22,000+ undergrads) where it lacked it before. But, overall, HD Radio faces an uphill battle at this point.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Savage said:
It doesn't matter. You can barely buy the receivers any more
Click to expand...

You can barely buy any radio anymore. In the Southern California / Arizona area where I live, the only radios in "Radio Shack" are those hand-crank wind-up emergency radio-flashlight combos.

Today, unless a "smart" device has a radio, or your phone dock has a radio or unless you buy a car with a radio, single-purpose radios are barely being sold any more.
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Plenty in Walmart, Target, Best Buy, and Frys. The quality of most them dubious, but I did pick up a Sony SRF-59 and it is no slouch. Plenty of radios that are also iPod / iPhone docks, too. No HD in sight, but I didn't check aftermarket car radios.
 
LouPickney said:
iBiquity licenses the HD Radio technology to radio stations and product manufacturers. They don't build the radios, and (to my knowledge) they don't get a per-unit fee for radios that are manufactured and sold. They simply license the technology.
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I'm not sure what your point is. Every "HD Radio" product sold, on both the broadcasting and the receiving sides, contains iBiquity's software. Every product that bears the "HD Radio" trademark must first meet iBiquity's quality standards. Whether these services are provided on a per-unit or flat-rate basis is not that relevant.

- Jonathan
 
jhardis said:
I'm not sure what your point is. Every "HD Radio" product sold, on both the broadcasting and the receiving sides, contains iBiquity's software. Every product that bears the "HD Radio" trademark must first meet iBiquity's quality standards. Whether these services are provided on a per-unit or flat-rate basis is not that relevant.
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The relevance in that statement is respective to what motivation (if any) iBiquity would have to encourage programmers to add sideband channels or other programming that might prove to be sufficient motivation for the sales of HD Radio units, hence the WPRT-FM on WBUZ-HD2 example. I really do think that the move there will help sell HD Radios southeast of Nashville, particularly for Predators NHL fans who had issues hearing the team's radio broadcasts this past season.

Then again, with the requirement for RAND pricing at which iBiquity can license the technology, perhaps it's immaterial either way.
 
I would have to agree with the phasing out of whip antennas as a factor (of many) that makes HD radio impractical.
I haven't noticed signal degradation on FM (on the analog side anyway, the HD's barely hit half the distance), but it sure is noticeable on AM analog and digital.
 
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