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icebreaker
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Morgan Wick
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Somewhat off topic but do Pro-sports still look at these rankings when they decide to say yes or no when it comes to putting a team there?
The reason I ask for example Recently the NBA allowed Seattle's NBA team to move to Oklahoma City. Oklahoma City is ranked 45. However a few years back when both Norfolk ( Hampton Roads , VA ) and Louisville were after the then Charlotte Hornets, the NBA was VERY CONCERNED about the market size of those markets. Hampton Roads #42 and Lousiville #48. Oddly the city that did get that team, New Orleans even BEFORE Katrina ranked smaller that Hampton Roads. For the record, Memphis which has an NBA team is only one rank higher than Louisville and quite a few numbers LESS than Hampton Roads and yet the NBA was scared to death pretty much to even consider those areas for a team. I dont recall the NBA ever expressing concern about Memphis' market rank.
I heard its about the same thing in other pro-sports too like the NHL, NFL and even MLB. I guess for the people behind major league sports, some cities "look better" than others reguardless how they rank market size.
The reason I ask for example Recently the NBA allowed Seattle's NBA team to move to Oklahoma City. Oklahoma City is ranked 45. However a few years back when both Norfolk ( Hampton Roads , VA ) and Louisville were after the then Charlotte Hornets, the NBA was VERY CONCERNED about the market size of those markets. Hampton Roads #42 and Lousiville #48. Oddly the city that did get that team, New Orleans even BEFORE Katrina ranked smaller that Hampton Roads. For the record, Memphis which has an NBA team is only one rank higher than Louisville and quite a few numbers LESS than Hampton Roads and yet the NBA was scared to death pretty much to even consider those areas for a team. I dont recall the NBA ever expressing concern about Memphis' market rank.
I heard its about the same thing in other pro-sports too like the NHL, NFL and even MLB. I guess for the people behind major league sports, some cities "look better" than others reguardless how they rank market size.
M
Morgan Wick
Guest
I would suspect the difference between Hampton Roads/Louisville and Memphis/New Orleans may have to do with certain demographic and geographic intricities. Hampton Roads is awfully close to Washington, so there is some cannibalization of audience, and Louisville is very white. Memphis and New Orleans are small markets, but they are very black, so they have a larger potential audience for the NBA than Louisville. So naturally the Sonics moved to Oklahoma City, a.k.a. Whiteville USA. But that's also why the NHL is in a disproportionate number of Canadian markets. Houston is too far south and Seattle is too near Vancouver (so naturally we can't see the Canucks on TV).mleach said:
Of course the NBA also probably considered the fact that people have heard of Memphis and New Orleans, whereas they'd be going "Norfolk Blanks?!?!? What sort of league is this? Louisville Blanks?" Of course Louisville is famous for its college basketball program and New Orleans isn't... (Which probably also helps explain why Memphis got a team before Hampton Roads.)
KeithE4 said:
Evidence: Phoenix market
- Market listed at #13; has been #12 since 2007
- KAZT 7 (Ind.) - has been owned by The Londen Group since April 2002.
- KDTP 39 (Daystar) - has been KTAZ 39 (Telemundo) since 2006
- KDRX 48 (TEL) - has been owned by Daystar since 2006 - became KDTP-CA, then K48LK, now KDPH-LP
- KPPX 51 (PAX) - PAX hasn't existed since 2005; the network is now ION Television.
- KCFG 9 (Ind.) - Affiliated with America One, when it's actually on. Owned by KM Communications.
- KFPH 13 (Telefutura) - Owned by Univision since 2002.
That's too many errors to be considered a reliable source of information. Nearly half the stations were incorrect.
Morgan Wick said:
Not sure on the exact distance but I think there is a good 200 miles ( give or take some off of that number ) between Hampton Roads and Washington, DC. They really aren't that close to each other. Oddly despite being so close to DC ( less than 50 miles ) , there are quite a few folks who even today really believe Baltimore should have an NBA or NHL team ONLY because their TV market is in the top 25 ( though barely ).
Louisville I believe isn't too far from Indianapolis and they have the Pacers. For some reason I don't recall that city being too concerned about that when they tried to land the Hornets though I do remember hearing on WHAS radio at the time ( forgot who it was ) who said that within 10 years Louisville will be a top 25 TV market so therefor that city needs a team. I have NO idea where WHAS came up with that idea that Louisville would soon be such a huge market.
If the day comes when either Louisville or Hampton Roads ever gets a team in any sport, chances are they will be named after their state rather than a city like the Utah Jazz, Indiana Paces, Colorado Rockies, Carolina Panthers and so forth.
Add Hartford/New Haven to this list. We're the 29th rated market. As many of you know, we had the NHL here from 1979 to 1997. The franchise became the Carolina Hurricanes and eventually won the Stanley Cup. Also, we almost landed the New England Patriots back in the 1990s. Looking back, I'm actually glad the Pats never came to Connecticut. Too close to East Rutherford, NJ, I think anyways. (Yes, Philadelphia is closer than we are, but they're a Top 5 market and we aren't.) What did we get instead? Rentschler Field in East Hartford, the current home of the University Of Connecticut Huskies football team (Exit 58 from I-84).
In terms of sports some of the markets go back a long time. The Chicago Cubs have always had a great radio network, and that alone gave the Cubs more influence than they should've had, simply because of the radio rather than geography
Kind of like TBS and the Braves, they became "America's Team," to those cities without their own teams
Kind of like TBS and the Braves, they became "America's Team," to those cities without their own teams
Mark said:
Actually, the St. Louis Cardinals had the biggest radio network prior to the expansion/franchise moves of the '60s. They pretty much owned the areas west of the Mississippi (outside of the West Coast) and a good part of the south before the Astros, Braves, Rangers, & Royals started/moved in.
The Chicago teams always had northern Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin (once the Braves moved to Atlanta), and Iowa - the White Sox had as much of a following as the Cubs back then. But the Cubs didn't become THE CUBS until Harry Caray moved north from Comiskey Park and WGN went on the bird (except for 1981, the Sox were on UHF stations from 1968 to 1989, losing WGN's midwest cable carriage that already existed even before satellites).
The Hornets play their home matches at New Orleans Arena, not the Superdome.
bk77 said:
While the Wizards play a few games in Baltimore, It'd also be nice if Baltimore had an NBA team as it would bring entertainment to Baltimore during the winter. I see their point on that, and the size of the market (alone) isn't bad, and the demos are there to support it.
A problem is the NBA teams on the East are weaker, and it could do cannibalizing to the Wizards and Sixers.
With the Nets and Knicks also, it would make a lot of teams in that corridor. If NBA was stronger here than in the West, and plonking down another team wouldn't impair the existing teams substantially, I'd be a proponent for a Baltimore team.
Baltimore had an NBA team - there's a rea$on it moved to Wa$hington. Apparently David Stern doesn't think Baltimore is a viable market for a team, otherwise he'd be pushing the Sonics to move there instead of OKC, a market way too small, too rural (except for the city itself), and too football-oriented to be a good NBA market. A disaster waiting to happen (see: Memphis Grizzlies).rch66 said:
Louisville (705K city, 1.4M SMSA) successfully supported the ABA Kentucky Colonels form 1967-1976. Only collusion by other NBA member clubs prevented the transfer of the franchise into the NBA. The other owners wanted the talented Colonels players available in the dispersal draft for their teams.
The last two seasons, the Colonels were in the top ten in overall pro basketball attendance. When you look at the facts, dirty dealings by the NBA are the only reasons the Kentucky Colonels...the generally accepted name of any NBA team that may move into our new 22,000-seat riverside arena...didn't make the cut.
There is a substantial African-American population of approximately 170K in the CMSA, so the statement that the city is "too white" doesn't hold water (and I'm African-American, by the way).
Despite the middling (TV #48) market size, which is largely due to geographical constriction by the Indianapolis, Cincinnati and Lexington markets*, the Louisville metro area is growing despite the weak national economy, with 4 Fortune 500 headquarters here. Yes, it's a huge college town, but by any measure, there's plenty here to support an NBA franchise. Oklahoma City got the Seattle franchise due to a successful run as the temporary home of the New Orleans Hornets and, more importantly, the ownership and management ties between Sonics ownership and the new OKC arena. Louisville is much more diverse and basketball-savvy than Oklahoma City-no comparison!
(*For example, Nashville's TV market is larger than Louisville's for the sole reason that no other city's TV signals encroach upon even their stations' fringe contours due to the Music City being at least 120 miles from neighboring Knoxville, 180 from Louisville, and 200 from Memphis.
Louisville is actually a larger city with 705,000 in the merged Louisville/Jefferson County vs. 540,000 in Nashville/Davidson County's metro government. Both metropolitan areas are about 1.4 million, with Louisville receiving a large increase in its metropolitan area boundaries and establishment of a CMSA region with two embedded "micropolitan areas" a couple of years ago.)
The last two seasons, the Colonels were in the top ten in overall pro basketball attendance. When you look at the facts, dirty dealings by the NBA are the only reasons the Kentucky Colonels...the generally accepted name of any NBA team that may move into our new 22,000-seat riverside arena...didn't make the cut.
There is a substantial African-American population of approximately 170K in the CMSA, so the statement that the city is "too white" doesn't hold water (and I'm African-American, by the way).
Despite the middling (TV #48) market size, which is largely due to geographical constriction by the Indianapolis, Cincinnati and Lexington markets*, the Louisville metro area is growing despite the weak national economy, with 4 Fortune 500 headquarters here. Yes, it's a huge college town, but by any measure, there's plenty here to support an NBA franchise. Oklahoma City got the Seattle franchise due to a successful run as the temporary home of the New Orleans Hornets and, more importantly, the ownership and management ties between Sonics ownership and the new OKC arena. Louisville is much more diverse and basketball-savvy than Oklahoma City-no comparison!
(*For example, Nashville's TV market is larger than Louisville's for the sole reason that no other city's TV signals encroach upon even their stations' fringe contours due to the Music City being at least 120 miles from neighboring Knoxville, 180 from Louisville, and 200 from Memphis.
Louisville is actually a larger city with 705,000 in the merged Louisville/Jefferson County vs. 540,000 in Nashville/Davidson County's metro government. Both metropolitan areas are about 1.4 million, with Louisville receiving a large increase in its metropolitan area boundaries and establishment of a CMSA region with two embedded "micropolitan areas" a couple of years ago.)
The King Bee said:
For some reason I remember that merger between Louisville and Jefferson County, KY. I know Buffalo was looking at doing the same with Erie County, NY but that never happened.
I know Indianapolis did the same with Marion County, Indiana Someone once told me that really the only reason why Indy merged with Marion County was to "protect" its bragging rights as being the largest city in Indiana but I know nothing about Indy's or Indiana's politics for that matter so I am not sure if thats even true. With that being said last year I heard on the radio where Indianapolis came real close to getting the 2008 Democratic National Convention only to have lost that to Denver mainly because of that merger ( Indianapolis would need the help of Fort Wayne, Gary and Evansville had they host the convention for added police and security and would those cities be willing to help out Indy? ). Oddly Denver, like Indianapolis they too merged with their county ( Denver County, Colorado ) as well but despite that merger, Next door to the east of Denver is Aurora and to the west is Lakewood, both totally seperate from Denver plus both cities are not all much smaller than Denver itself in terms of population so with three large cities next door to each other who were more than willing to help out I heard that ( and a lot of private sector money ) thats how Denver won the rights to hold that convention.
J
Jeff_Davis
Guest
Why is it called FOX 5 in San Diego if KSWB is channel 69? Same with NBC 7?
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