Top 40 Radio in Phoenix

[saladdressing]

Listening to Tucson's great CHR 93.7 KRQ begs the question: This format has been tried unsuccessfully many times before here. Why doesn't Mainstream CHR work in Phoenix?

 

[azenergyfan]

> Listening to Tucson's great CHR 93.7 KRQ begs the question:
> This format has been tried unsuccessfully many times before
> here. Why doesn't Mainstream CHR work in Phoenix?
>
Isn't Kiss FM mainstream right now? They were more rthymic when they signed on as KiSS but they do play some mainstream cuts now. Are you asking why the ratings aren't there or why phoenix dosen't have a mainstream chr? If it is the latter, we do have a mainstream chr.

 

[saladdressing]

Despite positioning that suggests a mainstream approach, 104.7 Kiss FM leans so heavy on the rhythmic stuff that is has become regarded in the industry as being a Rhythmic CHR. Yes they sprinkle in the occasional pop/rock track, but they're like Wild 94.9/SF, a rhythmic that plays some mainstream cuts in rotation.

Perhaps the question could be rephrased as "why hasn't pure Mainstream CHR like Z100/NYC or KDWB/Minneapolis been able to succeed in Phx?"<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by saladdressing on 01/21/06 06:55 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[johndavis]

> Perhaps the question could be rephrased as "why hasn't pure
> Mainstream CHR like Z100/NYC or KDWB/Minneapolis been able
> to succeed in Phx?"

I don't consider WHTZ mainstream.

But the answer is: one size does not fit all. A Minneapolis playlist doesn't necessarily reflect Phoenix. Nor would a Tucson one.<P ID="signature">______________
...co-moderator of the Satellite Radio, Phoenix, and San Diego boards...</P>

 

[pumpin]

> Listening to Tucson's great CHR 93.7 KRQ begs the question:
> This format has been tried unsuccessfully many times before
> here. Why doesn't Mainstream CHR work in Phoenix?
>
I think a lot of it has to do with demographics. when I lived in Phoenix, I wrote Bruce St. James, the PD of Power 92.3 and asked if their slogan is "#1 for Hip-Hop and R&B" then why is there more Hip-Hop than R&B? I didn't like the answer I got, but I had to deal with it. From what I was told, heritage R&B doesn't really do well in the Phoenix market. You really won't hear new songs from artists like R. Kelly, Lyfe Jennings, etc. in the Phoenix market unless for some reason it is a collaboration with a rapper. Basically, I learned "hit" (I am using the term loosely) stations in Phoenix only cater to two groups, young Hispanics that only want to hear hip-hop and young whites that only want to hear hip-hop. You may have a few blacks in the market that probably want to hear the newest Mary J., Keshia Cole, or Trey Songz. But they get trumped by the two majorities and they have to listen what the dominating groups want, even if they try to request it. Unless for some strange reason an R&B song gets into the mainstream, that is the only way it will get rotation in Phoenix.
I just think it is all about demos, that's why the so-called CHR/Mainstream Kiss 104.7 is more rhythmic than anything.

 

[Jay_F]

> > Perhaps the question could be rephrased as "why hasn't
> pure
> > Mainstream CHR like Z100/NYC or KDWB/Minneapolis been able
>
> > to succeed in Phx?"
>
> I don't consider WHTZ mainstream.
>
> But the answer is: one size does not fit all. A Minneapolis
> playlist doesn't necessarily reflect Phoenix. Nor would a
> Tucson one.
>


Even KDWB in Minneapolis plays a lot of rhythmic product. A lot of stations that classify themselves as CHR/Pop are actually rhythmic-lite stations with just the occasional pop song thrown in. Who can blame them? Hip Hop and rhythmic are stil very popular with the demos CHR is aming for.

Leaning rhythmic (or as some would argue being rhythmic) has kept KZZP competitive. They are tied with POWER. If ZZP shifted in a pop direction, KKFR would probably beat them by a wide margin.

 

[johndavis]

> I just think it is all about demos, that's why the so-called
> CHR/Mainstream Kiss 104.7 is more rhythmic than anything.
>

It's about playing the songs that are hits in Phoenix as opposed to following a national chart. (imagine that... local programming... whodathunk it...)<P ID="signature">______________
...co-moderator of the Satellite Radio, Phoenix, and San Diego boards...</P>

 

[tanim_95]

> Listening to Tucson's great CHR 93.7 KRQ begs the question:
> This format has been tried unsuccessfully many times before
> here. Why doesn't Mainstream CHR work in Phoenix?

Warning: This is a ridiculously long message. Forgive me, but I just love discussing this topic.

My opinion: it seems that the most successful Mainstream CHRs nationwide are the ones that have been in the format for a long time.

KRQ (which has been Mainstream CHR since 1977, I think!) managed to survive through the late 80's and early 90's, when the format began to suffer in many markets. They may have leaned Hot AC (or Rhythmic), but (unlike other stations that tried leaning one way or the other), they stayed afloat. Also, how strong has KRQ's competition been over the years? All I'm aware of an AM station (or was it two stations? Power 1490/KJYK and someone else?) during the late 80's and early 90's, followed by Power 97.5/KSJM(?) and Hot 98/KOHT (during the mid to late 90's). I'm not sure, but I don't think any of these stations really had the financial resources (or signal) to effectively compete with KRQ. And with Clear Channel now owning both Hot 98.3 and KRQ, my guess is that have "neutered" Hot 98.3 so that it doesn't take too much audience from KRQ.

On the other hand, the original KZZP wasn't able to weather the late 80's/early 90's storm. I don't quite recall the details of what happened, but Nationwide (owner of the station) didn't react properly. Plus, KZZP had much stronger competition than KRQ, in the form of KOY-FM (Y-95) and of course KKFR (Power 92). KZZP became (AC) KVRY in April 1991.

So there went our heritage balanced Mainstream CHR, and thus, the success of the format in the future. There were numerous factors affecting the success of the other stations that tried this format during the 90's - see below for more details.

In summary, thanks to smart programming decisions and (I think) a lack of strong competition, KRQ has been around for a long time, using the formula of playing multiple types of popular music on one station. Listeners in Tucson are just used to hearing a balanced approach from the Top 40 station, and I think that's why KRQ works. In Phoenix, if there was going to be any station doing the format successfully today, it would have been KZZP. But they weren't able to make it through the tough times for the format -- the late 80's and early 90's. And so, for the average listener in this market, it probably just sounds strange to hear multiple genres of hit music on one station, without one genre being dominant. That's probably why Mainstream CHR doesn't work here, and probably never will work again.

============

Here's the story about the other attempts at Mainstream CHR in Phoenix:

Once KZZP become (AC) KVRY, we were left with Power 92 and Y-95. From 1991 through the fall of '92, that battle was a lot like the Power 92 vs. Kiss battle today - Power was 100% Rhythmic (although "Rhythmic" had a different definition then than it does today) while Y-95 was similar to today's Kiss: mostly Rhythmic with a few rock songs thrown in. I don't have access to Arbitrons from that era, but my guess is Power was dominant over Y-95 (much more so than they are today over Kiss). Then, I think Bruce Kelly left Y-95 around September '92. At this time, Y-95 began to lean Hot AC during the day and Alternative & Techno (yes, actual Techno!) at night. Didn't work. The final nail in the coffin was around March '93, when Bruce Kelly resurfaced at Power 92. Also in March, Y-95 became more balanced musically, but they were all over the road, playing too many "fringe" songs from certain genres, and it sounded like a trainwreck. The numbers tanked, and Y-95 ceased to exist on 9/2/93 at 12 Noon.

Then, within weeks of Y-95's demise, for reasons that I will probably never understand, Power 92 began throwing in rock/alternative selections. On 12/16/93, they flipped to a Rock/Alternative-leaning Mainstream CHR. The numbers dropped like a rock. The market was used to Power being a Rhythmic station - that was the station's identity - and they had great numbers. This was another black eye for the Mainstream CHR format in Phoenix - flipping a successful station to the format, instead trying it on a station that was struggling. Plus, 1993/1994 was still not the era to try Mainstream CHR (even one that leaned rock/alternative).

Power began throwing R&B and Dance back into the mix around September '94. The ratings began to rise. They went full-fledged Rhythmic at some point in the Fall of '95, and the ratings skyrocketed to what may have been an all-time high. (But again, the definition of "full-fledged Rhythmic" meant something different in the mid-90's than it does now.)

Then there was the "104-7 ZZP" attempt in the late 90's and the beginning of this decade. First of all, in my opinion, the format shouldn't have even been tried on 104.7. KZZP returned in March of '96 as one of the first Modern ACs in the country, appealing to the same audience that listened to the station as a CHR in the 80's. Brilliant idea, IMHO. And, if I'm not mistaken, the station was #1 12+ AND 25-54 circa Spring/Summer '98. Then, again for reasons that I will probably never understand, Jacor (which owned 104.7 and 96.9 at the time) debuted Mix 96.9 in early September '98, with a format too similar to 104.7 at the time. Not surprisingly, KZZP began to lose audience. About six months later, they flipped KZZP to Mainstream CHR. It's almost as if they wanted the Modern AC KZZP to start slipping so that they had an excuse to flip it to Mainstream CHR. But why? Why didn't they put the Mainstream CHR on 96.9 and leave the Modern AC KZZP alone? I think that a brand new station on 96.9 would have had a better chance at succeeding -- whatever "heritage" KZZP could have used to its advantage was gone as soon as the Modern AC format went away -- the people listening to CHR on KZZP in 1999 weren't the same ones listening to CHR on that frequency in the 80's! Plus, I think that the format debuted too late -- most of the fresh-from-scratch Mainstream CHR's around the country that debuted in the late 90's (which are still around today) did so in 1997 or 1998 -- not in 1999. The extra year or two may have helped the station establish itself as something more than just the boy-band/girl-band station.

Mix has evolved into a great station now -- definitely one of my favorites -- but I can't help but wonder what would have happened if the CHR had gone there instead of 104.7.

 

[pumpin]

> > I just think it is all about demos, that's why the
> so-called
> > CHR/Mainstream Kiss 104.7 is more rhythmic than anything.
> >
>
> It's about playing the songs that are hits in Phoenix as
> opposed to following a national chart. (imagine that...
> local programming... whodathunk it...)
>
Which goes back to my original point, DEMOGRAPHICS!!!!!!

 

[desertv]

Y-95 ceased to exist on 9/2/93 at 12 Noon.


Ah yes, Y-95 and their famous bumper stickers...which many a soul did naughty things with!

 

[justin311]

Look at the original subject line and then look at the term that is being used. Top 40 was what the format was originally called and then CHR became a buzzword when rap started crossing over into mainstream charts. The audience demanded it because CDs like "The Chronic" were doing twice the sales in caucasians as they were in minoritie demographics.

Any and every major market with a station under the CHR/Main heading leans rhythmic. It has nothing to do with slighting pop starts or rock songs that might get airplay if given a chance, it has to do with the Top 40 chart. The term means the top 40 songs based on popularity or at least that was its intention when it started. But if you look at any major Hot 100 chart or the most 40 played songs on the radio, or even album sales for that matter, I would venture a guess that 75% is Rap or RnB. Thats what the audience likes. Look at pop stations in the early 90s that tried to ride the grunge gravy train, or even the country gravy train. It wasnt uncommon to hear Garth brooks on some pop stations back in the day because of how popular he was in certain regions of the country. Now adays i sincerely doubt you would even hear a country artist in a pop station because the tastes of the demographics dont lean that way. That being said, i agree with the last post, that the playlist for a MN Pop station wont work in Phoenix because the demographics arent there. And since everyone is in it for the money, it will be hard pressed to build a station like that in a town like Phoenix because it wont make money, especially with a heritage station like KKFR in the market for over 14 years now.