Top 77 of 2012. Thoughts?

[amfmsw]

http://www.musicradio77.com/voting2012tally.html

 

[oldies76]

Wow, "MacArthur Park" at #4..

Shows you what tastes people have and what songs people have missed all along. Most of these songs are regulars, but there's quite a few that still deserve airplay today, but don't receive it.

Another countdown show aired on WCBS, is the Dick Bartley top 20's, every Sunday evening for two different years. Check it out.

 

[michael hagerty]

Wow, "MacArthur Park" at #4..

Shows you what tastes people have and what songs people have missed all along. Most of these songs are regulars, but there's quite a few that still deserve airplay today, but don't receive it.

Oldies: No, it shows you the tastes of some of the fewer than 13,000 unique monthly visitors (according to Quantcast) to a website dedicated to the memories of a radio station that hasn't played music in 30 years and whose audience was at its peak 40 years ago.

Even in New York (where a lot of those web visitors may or may not still live), I wouldn't consider that usable data.

The Kinks' "Waterloo Sunset" placing 22nd should tell you how many songs are on that list because they got one or two votes.

 

[Thomps2525]

What surprises me the mostest is Gloria and Things I'd Like To Say. Gloria was the first single by the Cadillacs (June 1954) and never made the r&b chart or the pop chart. Lead singer was Earl Carroll, soon to be nicknamed "Speedo"; he died November 25, 2012.

I'm sorry I missed this year's Top 77 countdown. It would have been fun to hear Dan Ingram, Scott Muni, Jack Carney, Charlie Greer, Harry Harrison and Herb Oscar Anderson again. Oh well, there's always next year.

 

[Thomps2525]

Oh boy, looky what I found: The WABC Top 200 as voted by listeners in 1981. John Lennon, who had been murdered on December 8, 1980, was at number one with Woman. There was Sinatra, Manilow, Monkees, Bee Gees, ABBA and Anne Murray and a lot of songs from 1977-80.

http://www.musicradio77.com/Top200.html

 

[michael hagerty]

What surprises me the mostest is Gloria and Things I'd Like To Say. Gloria was the first single by the Cadillacs (June 1954) and never made the r&b chart or the pop chart. Lead singer was Earl Carroll, soon to be nicknamed "Speedo"; he died November 25, 2012.

Again, don't be surprised. Based on the monthly unique visitors, the likely percentage of voting and the song that ranked #22, Gloria probably got one or two votes.

 

[TheFonz]

What surprises me the mostest is Gloria and Things I'd Like To Say. Gloria was the first single by the Cadillacs (June 1954) and never made the r&b chart or the pop chart. Lead singer was Earl Carroll, soon to be nicknamed "Speedo"; he died November 25, 2012.

I don't think that the charts factored into this. Oldies radio always played songs that "tested well" (whatever that means). "God Only Knows" by the Beach Boys barely cracked the Top 40 when it was released. I never heard it on the radio back in the day. But for some reason Oldies radio picked up on it. And it showed up as #35 on the WABC Top 77 list.

 

[oldies76]

Oh boy, looky what I found: The WABC Top 200 as voted by listeners in 1981. John Lennon, who had been murdered on December 8, 1980, was at number one with Woman. There was Sinatra, Manilow, Monkees, Bee Gees, ABBA and Anne Murray and a lot of songs from 1977-80.

http://www.musicradio77.com/Top200.html

"You Light Up My Life" & "The Way We Were" on this chart in 1981, impressive. Unfortunately I don't think those two hits will be in the top 2000 today, thanks to limited airplay all along.

Interesting data here. Thanks!

 

[Thomps2525]

Brian Wilson has always said that his favorite Beach Boys song is God Only Knows but, as Fonz pointed out, it stalled at #39. The Who's (arguably) most well-known song, My Generation, got to only #74. I've seen several New York listener-voted charts that have included Billy Joel's Scenes From An Italian Restaurant, which was never released as a single. I know, I know, neither was Led Zeppelin's Stairway To Heaven...but what the heck is the appeal of the Billy Joel song to New Yorkers?

 

[amfmsw]

LA: Billy Joel and New Yorkers? That's like asking what's the appeal of Bruce Springsteen and the Jersey Shore! "Cold Spring Harbor", "An Innocent Man" (4 Seasons tribute) "Scenes From An Italian Restaurant" (A New York State Of Mind) He's from and lives in Long Island. His whole set for the Sandy Relief fundaiser with The Who and Paul McCarney was completely New York based songs. Nearly 30 minutes worth of Top 10 hits.

and michael, why so negative? The Top 77 list, only DE has made a valid point to me, and that is the voters can not be quantified in the demo desired. The research and tally is interesting, but not useable for HIM because he doesn't have THAT part of the equasion. I get it. I respect that. Slamming it because you don't like the results or don't even KNOW for sure the number of votes?

pass. it is what it is. 15 years worth. so look back. if they're 60 now, they were 45 at year 1. any similarities? there are some great songs in there that are being skipped, that bear a second look/listen.

 

[michael hagerty]

and michael, why so negative? The Top 77 list, only DE has made a valid point to me, and that is the voters can not be quantified in the demo desired. The research and tally is interesting, but not useable for HIM because he doesn't have THAT part of the equasion. I get it. I respect that. Slamming it because you don't like the results or don't even KNOW for sure the number of votes?

Amfmsw: I didn't mean to be negative (I'm actually a fan of that site)...just realistic. My responses were largely to Oldies76's first comment that this list somehow shows us something that we should be using in radio programming in 2013.

Having done listener polls like the WABC list, I can tell you, there are patterns. As with the charts when the records were new, there's a big gap between the number of votes for the #1 song and the number of votes for #10. Past that, the drop off comes pretty fast, and with even 7500 votes, anything below #40 likely got 40 votes or less.

All fine. Until you see a wild card like "Waterloo Sunset" at #22...suggesting that it got a lot of votes and is more popular than the 78 songs beneath it on the list. That's one of the several possibilities, but some are more likely than others:

* "Waterloo Sunset" was the beneficiary of multiple votes by a minority of voters (which, if allowed to happen, calls the accuracy of the entire list into question).

* "Waterloo Sunset" received the number of votes you might expect a song like that to get on a WABC survey (2? 3? 5?), meaning that the cliff came early, that every song below it got single digits and that many songs may be on the list as the result of a single vote.

*"Waterloo Sunset" got one vote and is in a 79-way tie with the remainder of the list (which I don't believe, because the logical thing to do then is to list it lower to avoid exactly this kind of debate over how it got to #22).

Even without "Waterloo Sunset" (and, frankly "MacArthur Park" at #4), with a sample as low as...let's say half of the WABC site's monthly unique visitors (10% active participation is much more likely), the bottom 25 of a list of 100 is likely to be made up of songs with 5 votes or less, and if the bottom 20 is a group of songs that tied with one vote each, that's not a huge surprise.

Anyway, the point I want to make is that votes from a fraction of the people who visit a tribute site to a radio station that stopped playing music more than 30 years ago should not be considered equal or superior to music testing as an insight into what classic hits adults want to hear today.

 

[KFodor]

And Michael Hagarty is dead on right.

Look at that survey for what it is and enjoy it if you are so disposed. But, don't try and draw the conclusion that the survey's results somehow mean something that radio programmers who have benefit of 30 plus years of actual controlled research don't know or are biased against. A couple of the songs on that survey are absolute turds whose airplay would add nothing to the success of an oldies radio station. Others are clearly "local" records indigenous to the northeast that I am not surprised at seeing their inclusion on the chart...but do not work and would not work in many other areas of the country.

Michael's point is that a sample of 13,000 unique page views is not that large, and in reality could be a much smaller number of actual people. Just like the old Arbitron diaries, you can have people "voting" for their favorite songs, just as some diary keepers "voted" for their favorite station. And, the results of any survey that is just a survey of "those who viewed the site" cannot logically be considered necessarily the view of "the public" at large.

 

[michael hagerty]

And Michael Hagarty is dead on right.

Look at that survey for what it is and enjoy it if you are so disposed. But, don't try and draw the conclusion that the survey's results somehow mean something that radio programmers who have benefit of 30 plus years of actual controlled research don't know or are biased against. A couple of the songs on that survey are absolute turds whose airplay would add nothing to the success of an oldies radio station. Others are clearly "local" records indigenous to the northeast that I am not surprised at seeing their inclusion on the chart...but do not work and would not work in many other areas of the country.

Michael's point is that a sample of 13,000 unique page views is not that large, and in reality could be a much smaller number of actual people. Just like the old Arbitron diaries, you can have people "voting" for their favorite songs, just as some diary keepers "voted" for their favorite station. And, the results of any survey that is just a survey of "those who viewed the site" cannot logically be considered necessarily the view of "the public" at large.

And Michael Hagerty is dead on wrong.

I'll stand by the basics of how small the votes can be on these things, but I take back my skepticism on The Kinks' "Waterloo Sunset".

I don't watch a lot of television.

I didn't know that part of the closing ceremonies of this past summer's Olympics in London was Ray Davies and Damon Albarn doing a brilliant and moving version of "Waterloo Sunset".

The world saw it.

I didn't.

Given that kind of exposure (the video of the event is on YouTube) and how great it was, it's entirely possible that many people voted for "Waterloo Sunset" in the WABC Top 77 polling.

This is actually a great example of what David's been saying...how people's attitudes now about a song trump chart position decades ago. The Olympics made that song.

But my skepticism about the vote was simply wrong.

I was ignorant. My apologies to the group and anyone I may have offended.

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

This is actually a great example of what David's been saying...how people's attitudes now about a song trump chart position decades ago. The Olympics made that song.

But isn't this a fantastic opportunity for programmers with any creativity to jump on a song's researgence in mainstream media? I did watch the opening and closing ceremonies (in fact the Olympics is the only TV I ever watch ) and other songs featured were "Hey Jude" by The Beatles and "My Boy Lollipop"!!!!!!!!!!!! by Millie Small. Both of these are absent on Chicago radio whenever I listen (maybe Hey Jude every now and then when I don't catch it), but I feel that this is a great time to jump in with creativity. Let the jocks on air talk about how it was in the Olympics, get listeners thinking and listening.

 

[Darth_vader]

Amazing how they let bland, overrated cuts by effete performers like Bob Dylan make the top 20*, yet the really talented folks like, say, Rodriguez didn't even place!

If I had compiled that list, "Sugar Man" and the original cut of "I'll Slip Away" would have probably ended up in the top 15*.

[size=8pt]________________________________
* I assume the list is sorted in descending order.

 

[michael hagerty]

This is actually a great example of what David's been saying...how people's attitudes now about a song trump chart position decades ago. The Olympics made that song.

But isn't this a fantastic opportunity for programmers with any creativity to jump on a song's researgence in mainstream media? I did watch the opening and closing ceremonies (in fact the Olympics is the only TV I ever watch ) and other songs featured were "Hey Jude" by The Beatles and "My Boy Lollipop"!!!!!!!!!!!! by Millie Small. Both of these are absent on Chicago radio whenever I listen (maybe Hey Jude every now and then when I don't catch it), but I feel that this is a great time to jump in with creativity. Let the jocks on air talk about how it was in the Olympics, get listeners thinking and listening.

That's usually what happens. A movie or some event throws a song back into the spotlight.

But the Olympics were five months ago. If it was going to happen on-air with "Waterloo Sunset", it would have by now. Why didn't it?

Well, for starters, a song that gets a second life because of that kind of exposure usually had a first. And as wonderful as "Waterloo Sunset" was, it never had one in the USA. It was released here as a single and did not chart. It didn't get airplay on Top 40 radio, and the album (Something Else By The Kinks) also didn't sell well in America (peaking at #153). As we've heard from another poster, some FM album rockers in some cities had it in their libraries, but it's not a song America's familiar with.

It could be that it was tested after the Olympics and didn't test well. I really don't know. It certainly made an impact with the voters on the WABC tribute site.

 

[hornet61]

Wow, "MacArthur Park" at #4..

Shows you what tastes people have and what songs people have missed all along. Most of these songs are regulars, but there's quite a few that still deserve airplay today, but don't receive it.

Oldies: No, it shows you the tastes of some of the fewer than 13,000 unique monthly visitors (according to Quantcast) to a website dedicated to the memories of a radio station that hasn't played music in 30 years and whose audience was at its peak 40 years ago.

Even in New York (where a lot of those web visitors may or may not still live), I wouldn't consider that usable data.

The Kinks' "Waterloo Sunset" placing 22nd should tell you how many songs are on that list because they got one or two votes.

a station that plays "Waterloo Sunset" is a station I Would Love To Listen to..Imagine all the other Gems it would Include maybe some "Subterreanean Homesick Blues" by Dylan, "Church Key" by the Revels, "Torquay" by the Fireballs, "soul Coaxing (Amie Caline)" by Raymond Lafevere", "tell Me Why " by both the Rob Roys and The Belmonts, "Little Latin LupeLu" by both the Righteous Brothers and Mitch Ryder , Imagine all those gems programmed by a PD with knowledge and style...instead of the same old slop..."satisfaction" and "Louie louie"...Imagine programming "Death Of An Angel" by the kingsmen for a change...wow...when is the last time you heard "Tell It like It Is" by Aaron Neveille or Heart or.... "All These Thing by Art Neville or the Uniques (Featuring Joe Stampley) - Vince Guillen (AKA Meln8tr) Albuquerque,NM...

 

[michael hagerty]

Wow, "MacArthur Park" at #4..

Shows you what tastes people have and what songs people have missed all along. Most of these songs are regulars, but there's quite a few that still deserve airplay today, but don't receive it.

Oldies: No, it shows you the tastes of some of the fewer than 13,000 unique monthly visitors (according to Quantcast) to a website dedicated to the memories of a radio station that hasn't played music in 30 years and whose audience was at its peak 40 years ago.

Even in New York (where a lot of those web visitors may or may not still live), I wouldn't consider that usable data.

The Kinks' "Waterloo Sunset" placing 22nd should tell you how many songs are on that list because they got one or two votes.

a station that plays "Waterloo Sunset" is a station I Would Love To Listen to..Imagine all the other Gems it would Include maybe some "Subterreanean Homesick Blues" by Dylan, "Church Key" by the Revels, "Torquay" by the Fireballs, "soul Coaxing (Amie Caline)" by Raymond Lafevere", "tell Me Why " by both the Rob Roys and The Belmonts, "Little Latin LupeLu" by both the Righteous Brothers and Mitch Ryder , Imagine all those gems programmed by a PD with knowledge and style...instead of the same old slop..."satisfaction" and "Louie louie"...Imagine programming "Death Of An Angel" by the kingsmen for a change...wow...when is the last time you heard "Tell It like It Is" by Aaron Neveille or Heart or.... "All These Thing by Art Neville or the Uniques (Featuring Joe Stampley) - Vince Guillen (AKA Meln8tr) Albuquerque,NM...

That would have been KSAN, San Francisco under Tom Donahue from 1967-1975. What you've just described is true free-form rock radio. Dead and buried 35 years ago.

 

[hornet61]

Wow, "MacArthur Park" at #4..

Shows you what tastes people have and what songs people have missed all along. Most of these songs are regulars, but there's quite a few that still deserve airplay today, but don't receive it.

Oldies: No, it shows you the tastes of some of the fewer than 13,000 unique monthly visitors (according to Quantcast) to a website dedicated to the memories of a radio station that hasn't played music in 30 years and whose audience was at its peak 40 years ago.

Even in New York (where a lot of those web visitors may or may not still live), I wouldn't consider that usable data.

The Kinks' "Waterloo Sunset" placing 22nd should tell you how many songs are on that list because they got one or two votes.

a station that plays "Waterloo Sunset" is a station I Would Love To Listen to..Imagine all the other Gems it would Include maybe some "Subterreanean Homesick Blues" by Dylan, "Church Key" by the Revels, "Torquay" by the Fireballs, "soul Coaxing (Amie Caline)" by Raymond Lafevere", "tell Me Why " by both the Rob Roys and The Belmonts, "Little Latin LupeLu" by both the Righteous Brothers and Mitch Ryder , Imagine all those gems programmed by a PD with knowledge and style...instead of the same old slop..."satisfaction" and "Louie louie"...Imagine programming "Death Of An Angel" by the kingsmen for a change...wow...when is the last time you heard "Tell It like It Is" by Aaron Neveille or Heart or.... "All These Thing by Art Neville or the Uniques (Featuring Joe Stampley) - Vince Guillen (AKA Meln8tr) Albuquerque,NM...

That would have been KSAN, San Francisco under Tom Donahue from 1967-1975. What you've just described is true free-form rock radio. Dead and buried 35 years ago.

beg to differ still alive and well on Intranet radio......where the real stuff is happening, classic oldies was what is dead and buried years ago ..but like vampires and zombies on TV ..you just can't kill that format...... it keeps coming back. I retro my vehicles with radios with usb for my various 16g flash drives with several thousand oldies...you can keep on listening to satisfaction over and over and over and over ..while I am listening to Tell Me, It's Over Now, As Tears Go By, Time is on my side, dandelion, Mothers little helper,she's a rainbow,under my thumb which in case you had forgotten while listening to the redundancy of Classic Hits are all early stones cuts...like said give me creative programming anytime. ---
Vince Guillen (AKA Meln8tr) Albuquerque ,NM

 

[firepoint525]

beg to differ still alive and well on Intranet radio......where the real stuff is happening, classic oldies was what is dead and buried years ago ..but like vampires and zombies on TV ..you just can't kill that format...... it keeps coming back. I retro my vehicles with radios with usb for my various 16g flash drives with several thousand oldies...you can keep on listening to satisfaction over and over and over and over ..while I am listening to Tell Me, It's Over Now, As Tears Go By, Time is on my side, dandelion, Mothers little helper,she's a rainbow,under my thumb which in case you had forgotten while listening to the redundancy of Classic Hits are all early stones cuts...like said give me creative programming anytime. ---
Vince Guillen (AKA Meln8tr) Albuquerque ,NM

"Out of Time" is a fave of mine from that era, particularly the five-minute version because it is so rare to ever hear that one. I am not even sure that "Out of Time" was ever a hit here in the states. Seriously missed opportunity there! 8)