• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Toronto -versus Buffalo Nd other US cities

okay..I have listened to Toronto stations
(kiss 92/ CHUM-FM )...and they have done the
qualify for a trip giveaways...
on a Friday Night around 9:30 pm...

? why doesn't Buffalo attempt this..
they always save it for the Morning show . .

? do other cities (bigger cities) follow the trend of Toronto ?
 
Radio_bored-Op said:
okay..I have listened to Toronto stations
(kiss 92/ CHUM-FM )...and they have done the
qualify for a trip giveaways...
on a Friday Night around 9:30 pm...

? why doesn't Buffalo attempt this..
they always save it for the Morning show . .

? do other cities (bigger cities) follow the trend of Toronto ?

I don't get it. They're giving away a trip but the only time to qualify is at night?
Or is the question...why does a Toronto station extend its major contests into the nighttime daypart but not Buffalo?

(And of course not living in either market I don't have an exact answer!)

If the latter is your question...I CAN tell you this...Carolyn Gilbert at NuVooDoo has done extensive research into the attributes of people inclined to wear a People Meter (PPM). One thing the research has found is that those inclined to say "yes" to wearing a PPM also love to play contests.

Doesn't Canada now use some type of People Meter methodology (BBM?) similar to PPM in the US? If so that may be why you're able to qualify for a major contest at night.

Buffalo and Rochester are still on the diary. Totally different methodology.

I'm in a Top 25 PPM market. At my station we run contests and giveaways almost continuously. Usually our major contests all run during the day. But in the case of a "qualify to win"...we will extend those qualifying opportunities into nights.

Major giveaways or grand prizes are always AM drive, rarely PM drive and never any other time. Bang for the buck.

Either way...whether PPM or diary, the nighttime pool of available listeners is much smaller...I'm guessing nights haven't been a bonanza for Top 40 since the 80's, maybe the 70's. Just a guess...and maybe Toronto's listening habits are different than here in the lower 48.
 
Toronto - or more properly, the Greater Toronto Area - has a population of about 5.5-million. It's the biggest market in Canada. They can apparently afford live night people at the major stations.

Buffalo - or more properly, the Buffalo/Niagara Metropolitan Area - has about 1.1-million people - although the radio market is rated at closer to 980K. There are few live night people at major radio stations. Simply put, it takes live bodies to run a contest at night.
 
SirRoxalot said:
Simply put, it takes live bodies to run a contest at night.

Right. One to hold the light bulb, and five to rotate the ladder.

There are automation packages stations can use to do contesting without staff. But even those with live evening hosts, such as WYRK, choose to concentrate major promotions in morning drive, usually at 7:10. That.s where the bulk of the audience is, and quite often the trips include sponsorship mentions.
 
TheBigA said:
SirRoxalot said:
Simply put, it takes live bodies to run a contest at night.

Right. One to hold the light bulb, and five to rotate the ladder.

There are automation packages stations can use to do contesting without staff. But even those with live evening hosts, such as WYRK, choose to concentrate major promotions in morning drive, usually at 7:10. That.s where the bulk of the audience is, and quite often the trips include sponsorship mentions.

Isn't Kiss live at night? They had a good night show a couple years back...I caught them on a drive thru.
 
Radio_bored-Op said:
dJ anthony is still one of the best local talents...

Glad to hear he's still there. Kudos to Entercom...
 
I don't think you can compare the 2 markets unless you want to include New York City or maybe LA. Buffalo is still too small. Just look at the traffic pattern for one thing. In a big city like Toronto, morning traffic peaks at 6am and lasts for 4 hours. Buffalo peaks at 7:30Am lasts maybe 1 hour. Toronto Pm traffic peaks 6pm lasts for 5 hours and most people in Buffalo are home by 6pm. In larger cities 9pm traffic can be worse than any of the Buffalo traffic. A contest in Buffalo just doesn't work as well after peak times, just not as many listening.
 
So then, why does Buffalo go through all the trouble of SOUNDING like a larger market?
If it's so small-What a great place to start!
I'm hoping the answer to that is that it's still a medium market and not a small market...
 
Buffalo's definitely a medium market, and for my money sounds as good as a lot of markets that are much larger in population. There's a legacy of good radio here that's survived in spite of the corporate hopscotch played in the market. It will be interesting to see if that lasts into the next generation. Then again, it'll be interesting to see if radio lasts into the next generation.
 
Yeziknoradio said:
So then, why does Buffalo go through all the trouble of SOUNDING like a larger market?
If it's so small-What a great place to start!
I'm hoping the answer to that is that it's still a medium market and not a small market...

Buffalo, like the rest of the Thruway corridor, has hemorrhaged population since the 1950's. In the 1950's it was market #14...Syracuse was #35. And so on.

It's also been said that the Canadian population also factors into's Buffalo's sounding better than its market size might indicate.

I think SirRox nails it...legacy of good radio...
 
chas108 said:
Buffalo, like the rest of the Thruway corridor, has hemorrhaged population since the 1950's. In the 1950's it was market #14...Syracuse was #35. And so on.

No Joke, in the 1950's and 60's people in Toronto went to Buffalo to shop. Not because of prices, but because it was "The Big City".

Up until the early 1980's, Montreal was Canada's largest city. Now, Bay Street not Saint-James Street (now rue St-Jacques) is the financial hub and the GTA is nearly twice Montreal's size. In the next decade, the GTA will most likely supplant Chicago to be Market #3 in this continent.

A lot can change in 50 years.
 
bmcglynn said:
Up until the early 1980's, Montreal was Canada's largest city. Now, Bay Street not Saint-James Street (now rue St-Jacques) is the financial hub and the GTA is nearly twice Montreal's size. In the next decade, the GTA will most likely supplant Chicago to be Market #3 in this continent.

I think the people of Mexico City would argue that the GTA and Chicago are fighting for #4... :D
 
"Legacy of good radio," indeed. I'd only add, "legacy of good radio people." Buffalo was, and arguably remains to a large extent, a market that has listeners (albeit fewer now than ten and twenty years ago) that like radio. It's sometimes surprising to learn how much listeners listen and relate to what they heard 'on the radio.' I'm not saying listeners hang on every word, phone call, bit, commercial or promotion. They don't. But they do listen consistently and attentively.

As to the legacy of "good radio," all one needs to do is go down the list the names of personalities, managers and programers who work(ed) in the market. Some stayed, some moved to bigger and better things. Most of them contributed to the state of the art.

Programmers who came to Buffalo had plenty of incentive, primarily to succeed and "beat the champ," whether the champ was defined as KB, WGR, Kiss, WBEN, WBUF (the mid 80s and early 90s AC runaway train) or 97 Rock. Some PDs who "beat the champ" were king for a day, enhancing their resumes and moving on.

Will the legacy of good radio and good radio people continue? The answer depends on how managers perceive listeners' wants and needs, as well as how the value of live, local radio people are perceived by the listeners. Personalities need to be aware of this as well. Smart managers will be able to discern the difference between price and value, and do everything possible to protect and increase the value of their people and properties.




Personally, I think managers don't care about radio station, market or personalities' legacies. They're critically attuned to their own legacy. The radio realist within me has understood this for decades. The artist-performer within me has other thoughts.
 
JustPastBuffalo said:
Personally, I think managers don't care about radio station, market or personalities' legacies. They're critically attuned to their own legacy. The radio realist within me has understood this for decades. The artist-performer within me has other thoughts.

I don't think any of that is any different from what's going on at the major record labels right now. Label executives, since the 80s, feel the business revolves around them. Yet for some reason, lots of artist-perfrormers want major record deals, and the public still loves music. They just don't want to pay for it. I think there are lots of lessons radio people could learn from recording artists, and it might help them improve their situation, and maybe even forge a whole new industry.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom