Tough times for WSB-AM in ratings

[Talk_Dude]

You are absolutely correct, Talk_Dude. Though on this board, I think many would reject your premise about playing proven, tested "hit" songs. Many of the posts here are from people who believe that playlists should be very broad and deep, despite all ratings evidence that has proven a smaller, focused playlist works best. They're always mystified about the success of B 98.5 or 971 The River or other stations with short lists.

Count me among those who would prefer deep playlists. I'm part of the "tight playlists chase most people away from radio into the arms of satellite and pre-recorded music, but attract the minority away from other stations" contingent. This is a gross oversimplification, which is about all that can be posted in a forum like this. I think that, generally speaking and using made-up numbers just for illustration purposes, a 40 to 60 song playlist chases a lot of people away from radio, but of those who stay with radio, the 40 song list station usually beats the 60 song list station. I do not know why that is. Perhaps there seem to be a lot of us expressing that opinion in here because we don't have stations with deep and/or broad playlists to listen to, so we kvetch about what we don't have, while the people who like hearing the same seven songs over and over and over are content, and feel no need to complain.

Speaking as a universe of one, my own personal bias is that I'll give a song that I never heard before that doesn't suck really badly in the first few seconds a chance. I won't change the station if a song I never heard before comes on if it sounds like it could have come from an album that has other songs I like. (Tough to explain that without a lot of words!) But, if I hear a song that I know from past experience is really lame, it's time to hit the station buttons. If I make it through all 12 and still haven't heard something that either I like or that at least doesn't suck, then it's time to pop in a CD. Lately, the CD's have been winning.

If I left my CD's at home, and none of the FM stations had anything good on, I might hit the button for the AM band. But to be honest, it's not likely. The tonal quality of AM is just too annoying to put up with, regardless of the content of the programming. Listening to anything on AM is like listening to Gilbert Gottfried. I'll listen to spoken word content on FM, including WABE. But there's nothing in the world that is so interesting to listen to that it could make up for the terrible audio quality of AM radio, at least to my ears. I used to like listening to Boortz, Limbaugh, and Jim Quinn when I lived in a city with an FM talker. I haven't heard any of them since I moved to Atlanta.

 

[InSearchOfGear]

To fans of that kind of thing, those messages cannot be heard too often. Those messages are the "hits". They are to talk radio what "Freebird", "Layla", and "Stairway to Heaven" are to classic rock stations. Talk radio thrives on the same sort of narrow playlist of "hit" topics as any music format station.

Would you suggest that an oldies station loses listeners by only playing proven, tested, "hit" songs? So why would a talk station fail for only carrying proven, tested, "hit" talk topics?

Well, dude, it's like this. Times are changing, and so is the audience. If the GOP wasn't on the right side of the abortion issue, they'd already be a footnote in history. They've used the lock they have on the religious right to dangle the carrot, and the rubes have been snipping at it since the Reagan administration. Many of them are starting to realize they've been used as pawns, through their religious beliefs, to further an agenda that has no payoff for them, except a perceived ticket to Heaven.

If CBS-FM still had the same playlist and airstaff it had in its pre-Jack days, would they be #1 now, or at their former mid 3 share consisting of an ever growing 55+? Sacred cows are killer beasts. Some stations just get fat and lazy, regardless of format, and put on blinders to the world changing around them. Then when ratings slip they still do nothing to innovate because the good ol' boys buys will continue for years.

I have no doubt that Cox has a plan B for WSB. Ratings aren't affecting revenue now, and won't for a long time. When the current model no longer works, I vote for All-news, despite its losing history in the market. Never done on a blowtorch signal like that, and the news gathering infrastructure is already in place from the TV side. Put CBS News at the TOH and grab a few good anchors, and it's anchors away.

Don't be surprised to hear anolther news block when Boortz calls it quits.

 

[jabba17]

I have no doubt that Cox has a plan B for WSB. Ratings aren't affecting revenue now, and won't for a long time. When the current model no longer works, I vote for All-news, despite its losing history in the market. Never done on a blowtorch signal like that, and the news gathering infrastructure is already in place from the TV side. Put CBS News at the TOH and grab a few good anchors, and it's anchors away.

Don't be surprised to hear anolther news block when Boortz calls it quits.

Cox DID try all-news when they were LMAing WCNN from Dickey, even hiring Tom Hughes after WGST inexplicably fired him (the first time). Cox couldn't make a go of it, even on arguably the second best AM signal in Atlanta. My guess is that the TSL was awful.

Regardless of what people may say, people like block/appointment programming (or at least the rating systems like it). There is a reason why you can't get the weather anymore on The Weather Channel and you can't get music anymore on Music Television, and why Headline News is no longer "around the world in 30 minutes" and just another outlet for CNN's longforms. Ironic you couldn't do all-news with the audio feed of CNN Headline News anymore, which was how WCNN got its start.

 

[onetake]

Salem is probably getting a great ROI on WGKA considering what they aren't spending on the joint.


It took a while to dig and find this. Back in the late 90s Salem paid Joe Weber over $8 million for 1190am, which just switched from Spanish to Biztalk.
They spent $16 million for 920 and bought it from Moody Bible Institute, which would have gotten their main competitor to WNIV, off the air.

They also spent over $8 for WNIV/WLTA in the late 80s.

What did CC spend for WGST to move to 640? They've spent a fortune on signal upgrade efforts and how much conversation do we still have about a bad signal.

Makes you wonder who was handing out so much great advice. Also makes you wonder if either would do it again given the chance.

 

[jabba17]

What did CC spend for WGST to move to 640? They've spent a fortune on signal upgrade efforts and how much conversation do we still have about a bad signal.

Makes you wonder who was handing out so much great advice. Also makes you wonder if either would do it again given the chance.

WGST moved from 920 to 640 in the late 1980s...way before CC entered the picture. Might have even been before Jacor. IIRC Kicks (590) and 96 Rock (970) dropped their AM sides around the same time...with Taft/Citicasters selling off 970. My daughter points out that was also when 590 moved out to Powder Springs.

 

[RoddyFreeman]

Cox did not do all news on WCNN during the LMA. Tom Hughes did news in morning drive, but 680 was a talk station (a strategy that I couldn't figure out given they were competing with WSB). Royal Marshall did an afternoon show, and the station used syndicated hosts.

 

[jabba17]

Cox did not do all news on WCNN during the LMA. Tom Hughes did news in morning drive, but 680 was a talk station (a strategy that I couldn't figure out given they were competing with WSB). Royal Marshall did an afternoon show, and the station used syndicated hosts.

I stand corrected, but wasn't the station more news-focused?

 

[amos]

there's nothing in the world that is so interesting to listen to that it could make up for the terrible audio quality of AM radio, at least to my ears.

no matter how much we talk about the programming on SB, the fact remains that a LOT of the listeners feel EXACTLY the same way as Talk_Dude.

I like AM. I am happy that WSB has been SO successful for all these years. But there are just too many people that will NEVER listen to AM no matter what the programming.

Once upon a time WSB cancelled Ludlow Porch and put on David Paul to get a younger audience. The die-hards thought it was blasphemy, but it worked. where would they be today if they hadn't evolved?

it's not programming this time. the medium is the message. mr mcluhan taught us that.

maybe it's not time to move WSB to fm yet, but it will be one day. sooner than you think.

-amos

 

[InSearchOfGear]

Cox DID try all-news when they were LMAing WCNN from Dickey, even hiring Tom Hughes after WGST inexplicably fired him (the first time). Cox couldn't make a go of it, even on arguably the second best AM signal in Atlanta. My guess is that the TSL was awful.

680 cannot be heard in 1/3 the metro at night. And, how many years ago was that? The format kciks ass wherever it's done on a full signal, and done correctly. The personality approach used by WCBS-AM and WTOP would be a perfect fit for this market.

 

[secondchoice]

It just dawned on me, with some of the worst ground conductivity in the Continental US, urban sprawl at its worst, and no viable market wide 24 hour signals on the band to share the presets with (like Chicago or Nashville); I am surprised that WSB AM did and does so well. The RF noise is really a lot worse than even 10 years ago. Try the scan button on AM more than 60 miles from a station north of the gnat line in GA and you will probably miss the station.

As for taking WSB to FM this might not be the “total” answer. Coverage wise, I feel (I know the circles on the signal strength map are the same so there is no “science or fact” in this opinion) that when everybody swapped towers for HD, the signal to the north of Canton on some stations suffered. Is this CFL’s messing with FM too, or the combination of HD and new tower locations? I have always wondered why a group of FMs did not go on the mountains east of Jasper. 2 meter ham works almost to Macon and on a clear day you can see the buildings in Atlanta, and you do not have to worry about the Atlanta Airport. Another option is to go in north Fulton County and take advantage of the higher average terrain with a 2000 foot tower. Land is “cheap” now. 97.1 is a factor in Atlanta with a 1585 foot tower.

IIRC a FCC “biggie” was in favor of the old channel 6 analog going to radio. If so move all the D and C AMs to it. Then let the A and B’s expand their coverage and bandwidth.

 

[jabba17]

680 cannot be heard in 1/3 the metro at night. And, how many years ago was that?

Such is the Atlanta AM dial; sad that the second most powerful night signal is so directional as to be that way.

It was, IIRC, about 10-12 years ago.

 

[jabba17]

IIRC a FCC “biggie” was in favor of the old channel 6 analog going to radio. If so move all the D and C AMs to it. Then let the A and B’s expand their coverage and bandwidth.

If ATL got another class A clear WSB would up their game to actually compete.

I am surprised that someone hasn't gone west of Atlanta and set up a directional array (or borrow WDWD's) to throw a highly directional signal eastward. Of course, the obvious candidate, WGST, has to contend with a couple of bigtime co-channel stations in Florida. Could WNIV or WGUN or WAEC do something like that? Yes, it would require taking some other stations off the air, yadda yadda yadda.

I agree with putting channels 6 and 5 on the FM dial--which would increase the size of the FM dial by half again--and moving the Ds and Cs to it. It would be a lot of pain until the receiver population got high enough, but if we expanded the FM band down to 78MHz now and got the receivers out now, that would make the work (say) 5 years down the road to move everybody a lot easier. Heck, it would take at least 5 years to figure out who goes where on the FM x-band, and for the As and Bs to jockey for the new vacancies on AM. The local channels on AM should be abolished and local service should go to LPFM on the FM x-band (maybe with tweaked rules). Cumulus has shown us that LPFM can be viable.