Translators can work but...

[joshzz]

HI Friends,

There's a lot of talk regarding as to whether translators are effective in winning souls. What it really comes down to is whether a national broadcaster can be as an effective as a local broadcaster.

There are listeners to translators and across the country radio stations but I think in 90 - 95% of the cases, the local broadcaster will trump the national broadcaster.

For instance, we run one translator but we run it like it's a local station. Local news, weather, public service announcements ,etc. Our translator has tons of listeners and we know that becasue of our prize give-aways etc.

I don't think in any case a K-Love or similar entity can compete with that.

My conclusion is that translators can be effective tools in winning souls but you reap what you sow. The more local you are the more relevant you become and the more lives you will save.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

My conclusion is that translators can be effective tools in winning souls but you reap what you sow. The more local you are the more relevant you become and the more lives you will save.

A lot of us here are probably curious about your format. What type of music? What is the ratio of talk / teaching to music?

Christian radio can be relevant to listeners, it can be highly rated, it can be popular, it can be "cool" - all without compromising Biblcal integrity. I have thousands of telephone log slips to prove it.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

My conclusion is that translators can be effective tools in winning souls but you reap what you sow. The more local you are the more relevant you become and the more lives you will save.

Josh, I just wrote a post on that other thread that is analyzing the use of translators in Christian broadcasting that is probably too long, and maybe too assuming. So this one will be short.

I admire your enthusiasm. I admire your concern that Christian radio be effective. I don't know if you read the threads by all the people fighting over where to go with traditional secular broadcasting. Should we find the best syndication programming we can afford, or is "LIVE AND LOCAL" the only criteria of good broadcasting, Christian or secular.

Give us some 'meat and potatoes' to chew on. Document in some way that local content is more effective that a national content.

 

[david9396]

josh--where do you broadcast from?

 

[justalurker]

For instance, we run one translator but we run it like it's a local station. Local news, weather, public service announcements ,etc. Our translator has tons of listeners and we know that becasue of our prize give-aways etc.

I don't think in any case a K-Love or similar entity can compete with that.

I sense the ghost of Radio Elizabeth itching to reply.

I'm glad that you're getting response out of your translator ... hopefully on a comparable level to your main station. There are several good regional or local networks that have a decent main station and include their translator/repeater audiences in the programming instead of just letting them listen along to out of market content or (in my opinion the worst option) dumbing down the programming so it isn't local anywhere.

There is something special about knowing where a lives PHYSICALLY ... it often provides a better connection to the listener than knowing where they live emotionally or spiritually. The physical connection can open the door to the more important connections.

Live local broadcasters can make that connection by knowing the community in precise terms ... not vague terms and by being in the community for more than fairs and fundraising. When members of the staff including air staff are in a local church and volunteering with local organizations it ties the station and the community together. The station becomes more than an outside national ministry like on national TV.

Of course any station can focus too much on the time/temp/weather/giveaways and forget WHY they are on the air ... so one must remain vigilant - otherwise your popular radio station is no better than the secular one down the street. But being live and local is a good door to have open.

 

[anotherguyTN]

I wasn't sure which translator thread to put this under, but here goes: A lot of times Christian stations not reaching a particular group (Mainly younger listeners) are the cause of the national networks coming in. When locally owned Christian stations don't do anything with CCM, and especially Christian rock, they are asking for the networks who are at least making an effort to come in and take over those audiences. In some cases the local owners don't care and think it takes the pressure off them to do anything that would reach young people. In other cases they decide to jump on the bandwagon after the networks prove there really is an audience for CCM, although in many cases by that time it's too late. We finally have a local CCM station in West TN, but they lean toward AC (mostly automated and/or satellite) and still don't do much of anything wth Christian rock. That's why I'm glad the networks are in my area, especially Air 1 and WAY-FM, which has cut back on their area, but is still available with translators in some areas.

 

[JustMe1]

For instance, we run one translator but we run it like it's a local station. Local news, weather, public service announcements ,etc. Our translator has tons of listeners and we know that becasue of our prize give-aways etc.

That's interesting. If this translator is an FM I did not know that was possible within the FCC rules.

Fundraising by FM Translators
Translators may interrupt the rebroadcasted programming for up to 30 seconds each hour to solicit and acknowledge funds used to maintain the translator station. This interval may be broken up into smaller segments, e.g., two 15 second segments. See 47 CFR Section 74.1231(g).

No Local Program Origination Authority
A translator station cannot originate local programming, except as covered in the Fundraising by FM Translators and Emergency Warnings Broadcast by Translators above. See 47 CFR Section 74.1231(g).

Cross-Service Broadcasts are Prohibited
An FM translator station may only rebroadcast the signal of an FM station or another FM translator signal. It may not rebroadcast an AM station, the audio of a TV station, or any other service. See .

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/translator.html

Ok engineering guru's am I reading this wrong? I just wanted to make sure the bases were covered.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

If you will nose around a bit, you will be able to look up Josh's station and translator and go through his website and go through other on-line into. His two communities are close together and I assume that in keeping with FCC rules, he probably does NOT split the translator off and do any programming that is different over there. He can address the people in one town while broadcasting and they think of him as THEIR STATION. Then a little later he can address the people in the other town and THEY think of him as THEIR STATION. Both towns are hearing all of this info. I think you will find a lot of LPFMs and NCEs are doing something like this.

Now, if you had a translator 150 miles away and you were spending 6 to 10 minutes per hour doing sponsorship acknowledgements but doing seperate feeds to the two transmitters so that people only heard about sponsors local to them, then yes, the FCC rules you quoted would be saying to you: "I think you are in a heap of trouble, boy!"

 

[justalurker]

Cross-Service Broadcasts are Prohibited
An FM translator station may only rebroadcast the signal of an FM station or another FM translator signal. It may not rebroadcast an AM station, the audio of a TV station, or any other service.

Except by Special Authority ... well over 100 translators rebroadcast AM stations under STAs. There are some other odd situations. A strict reading of the rules prohibits the rebroadcast of LP stations ... but at least one has a translator.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

There are some other odd situations. A strict reading of the rules prohibits the rebroadcast of LP stations ... but at least one has a translator.

I get confused about the difference between a translator and what is it... a satellite trasmitter. Whatever they choose to call it, my nosing around the LPFM world indicates there are considerably more than ONE that has come up with a way to cover more than 3-1/2 miles by having another transmitter.

 

[justalurker]

I get confused about the difference between a translator and what is it... a satellite trasmitter.

Translators translate the signal off of one frequency onto another frequency.
Boosters retransmit the signal off of one frequency onto the same frequency.
Transmitters originate the signal from another source (local recordings, live audio, feeds).

Translators that broadcast signals delivered via satellite (distant radio stations) are often called satellitors.
"Satellite transmitter" brings to mind satellitors, but could also be boosters or direct fed translators.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

This is a similar discussion as happens on the News/Talk board. Are satellite talkers better than local talkers.

In terms of Christian stations, many markets do not have a local Christian station, or only one to cover all aspects of the Christian format (hymn based, preachers, CCM, Praise and Worship, Country Gospel, Urban Gospel). Wouldn't it be fantastic to have 6 local Christian radio stations in each market so that all those Godly formats were covered well to reach a wide audience for Christ.

In Philly, market # 6, they have 2 FM (FamilyRadio Network) and a translator of WXHL (Reach FM - CCM) from Christiana Delaware, 3 AM (2 Salem talkers - one religious, the other conservative talk), and 1 preacher with mellow praise music where preachers haven't bought any radio time station from nearby Chester WVCH has been a Christian station since I believe, 1949. Salem originally had a live and local CCM on WZZD 990, but it now is their conservative talker WNTP. Once 'ZZD became talk WXHL moved a translator into both Philly and Delaware County below Philly.

In Wilmington Del, market # 75, we have 1 AM an Urban Gospel station and 1FM WXHL CCM. We can recieve some of those Philly stations well enough where the average person would listen and some of those only a radio geek would put up with the poor signal. In WXHL's defense, they've put numerous translators in the Delaware, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Ohio, etc, where no local CCM station exists. So I see them serving markets where no CCM station exists. Better a translator than no CCM station.

In Wilmington we have Philly's WRTI's translator here so that we can clearly get their Classical and Jazz programming as there are not any stations in Delaware doing that sort of music. They also have a translator in Dover. So, in underserved markets, translators give people more choice than the same ole same ole that is much of commercial radio. The same in Christian radio. Sure it's nice to have an involved in the community live and local Christian station, whatever the format, but that isn't always the reality.

The only market, that I've seen where a Christian station is in the top 4 rated stations in their market is Lancaster PA's WDAC. Looking at most other markets Christian radio is way down at the bottom ratings wise, so a secular business person probably wouldn't see that as a good format to get into, if all they want to do is make money. So it would take a Christian business person or ministry, church, etc to take the risk by starting a local Christian station. So it may boil down to, a few large Christian radio networks/satellite feeders, translator grabbing stations, to provide Godly programming to most markets. Now possibly in the "Bible Belt", which isn't the Northeast, the situation might be different, but in the very blue, liberal Northeast Christian stations are not ratings getters or good generators of spot revenue (if a commercial station). That's why a commercial station like WVCH which has a great signal from Trenton NJ to Dover Del relies very heavily on dollar a hollar preachers. My guess is, if they became a listener supported station they would be able to air far more music. Of course in today's economy, my guess is the listener supported stations are also hurting financially. So bottom line to this long comment is, translators are better than no Christian radio in a market.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Hello, MikeFromDelaware. It has been awhile since we chatted.

I often puzzle privately about all the issues you just listed in your post. The big question is "What can we (as the church) do?" Then we stare out of the cave, or out of our house, or out of the front door of the church and face the question: "What SHOULD we do?" And then a bunch of us get together and look at each other and say: "What ARE we going to do?"

I can see Joe the Plumber or someone driving to work, or driving between appointments, wishing for a bit of "faith ear candy" on the radio. But what if there is only one frequency available in my community and some national broadcaster has it, and the "theology" expressed by that nationally programmed channel is foreign to my community. Not a single place of worship in my entire town, county or region has seen fit to embrace that particular expression of the faith. Do we see that as a sanctioned mission giving the residents opportunity to hear something new? Do we see that as depriving the existing, organized worshippers of having a channel to reinforce what is already accepted within the community?

The big bomb: WHO gets to make that decision. (We're pretty sure that is NOT a government function in this country.) If we could locate an group, an authority that SHOULD make that decision, HOW do they decide who gets the channel, and how do they decide what is the proper use of that channel?

I guess that puts us right back where we are today! :-\

Oh, here in the Bible Belt? A few years back I smelled a transaction coming. A frequency in my county was about to be "snuffed out" so a nearby facility could up their power.... to do basically NOTHING as I saw it. I called the parties involved to discuss what was about to happen. They very nicely told me to blow-it-out-my-ear. Losing one channel was not critical. The had prepared an inventory of stations in the Atlanta market doing religious programming. 40%! If I felt the need for a channel in my area I should grab one of the religious operations and rehab it. There were already too many of them.

 

[R.D.P.]

To Mr. Mike From Deleware

What you've said, is so true.  In most markets (Mine Included) a national network and/or a low powered repeater has to come in and provide Christian radio to them.  If it wasn't for the national networks (AFR and Moody) and/or hadn't been for the Rejoice Pensacola "Godcaster", my area never would've had a Christian radio station at all. 

Glad that Don Wildmon and Moody Broadcasting saw our need for a full powered Christian FM Radio station(s) and helped bring their heavy leaning Talk and Educational Programs to an area that needed it.  I know that the yapping isn't my thing but it's better to have that, than to be without a Christian radio station at all.

For years now, my hometown has had to depend on a few "Godcasters" to provide us with Christian Radio.

For a while, It was Rejoice from Pensacola that took care of that need.  In 1987, a lighting strike took translator off for good and it never came back. 

It was only after AFR came, in 1995, that the translator curse came to an end.  They started off as a low powered satellator, at 90.1, with many dark valleys they had to endure but finally became a full powered FMer, at 91.1, in 2003. 

It took Moody many years to change from a translator station, to a full powered FMer.  They started off as a translator rebroadcast, of WMBV from Dixon's Mills, in 1992 but became a full powered FMer in 2008.  Just like Rejoice Pensacola, lighting took this station off in 1999.  Between 1999 and 2005, Moody tried to rebuild this station, while pursuing WRNF.  It was in 2005, they obtained a permit to relocate the translator and upgrade 94.3 FM, to 205 watts.  A few months later, they got the permit to build WRNF and was advised to sell off this translator.

This translator is back on again, after a Black Minister purchased the CP, in 2007 and brought it back, in 2008.  Right now this station is rebroadcasting Moody Radio (WMBV) but once he moves his Marion Alabama station, to Selma, he plans on doing a rebroadcast of this station. (WJUS 1310 AM)

R.D.P. <><

P.S. As for me, I'm still working on my project.  Hope it'll soon see the light of day.  Still talking with Redeemer Radio from Olivebridge New York.  They're Praying for this project to work out.  I'm doing the same too. 

 

[anotherguyTN]

RDP,
I looked at Redeemer Radio's website, and they look pretty traditional. To me that looks like it would be just adding more of the same to Christian radio in Selma. I hope you won't give up on trying to get a CCM station. I know you haven't been able to get anything going with WAY-FM or K-LOVE, but have you considered The Reach FM network? They have a satellite station in the Memphis area and might be another option. I've only heard them online, but they sound pretty good. http://www.thereachfm.com/

Also, did Selma's AFR station change to the talk network or are they still on the inspo network?

Also, I agree with Mike about satellite networks and translators being the only option for CCM in a lot of areas. I've said this before, but if it weren't for them there still probably wouldn't be any CCM radio in West TN outside of Memphis. I guess AFR actually deserves the credit for starting change in this area. Although they weren't very contemporary themselves except for a Saturday night show they had in the early 90's, they were the first station in the area that finally did something else besides Southern gospel, black gospel and preachers, and opened the door to networks like K-LOVE, WAY-FM, and Air 1 coming in.

 

[R.D.P.]

Our AFR station started off with Inspirational but morphed into Classic Christian and now is talk. This station started off at 90.1 with a 250 watt signal. It was originally a satellator but had many issues when it came on in 1995. This station was sandwiched inbetween two public radio stations, from Montgomery (89.9) and Birmingham (90.3). That audience raised a stink about AFR's old spot and forced them off the air, for a month, in 1996? (I think) It was during that month, that Public Radio signed on, at 88.3, here. Once that month was over, my friend Mr. Dean Wilson and AFR turned this station back on and relocated to 91.1, to keep from interfering with Public Radio. After they relocated to 91.1, it was in 2003 that they hauled ship and moved west to Uniontown and upgraded to their present 21,500 watt signal. It was during their waiting to upgrade period, that I had the opportunity to speak on here. Mr. Dean Wilson allowed me to read, from a publication that I'm the author of, once a week. Man I loved that gig. When he stepped down as local contact guy, I though my speaking career was done for but the new local contact guys still allowed me to speak but I was now telling the listeners the name of this station and where they could send their contributions to help keep WAQU on. Once the station hauled off to Uniontown, my speaking career was over and the two men that was over the Selma station, moved on to other things.

...And no I'm not going to be able to bring a new satellator station to Selma Alabama. The non-com band is filled up and there's no more spaces opened for a new station. If I'm able to establish something, I'll have to locate at 93.3 FM and/or on AM. Since AM has many issues, I'm fishing for a FM broadcast.

...And since my hometown has a higher percentage of older folks than young, CCM wouldn't fair as well. Just to bring something positive and uplifting to my hometown would be a blessing indeed. Since I love R.C. Sproul and his style of Preaching, I want to have a radio station that caters to that style and presentation.

R.D.P. <><

P.S. As I stated earlier, I'm still Praying for God to have His way with this project. For some reason, He's now leading me to Redeemer Radio. I know that CCM was my goal but whatever God does allow me to bring, I'll thank Him for the blessing and then use it for the proclamation of His Word, to my hometown.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Hello, MikeFromDelaware. It has been awhile since we chatted.

I often puzzle privately about all the issues you just listed in your post. The big question is "What can we (as the church) do?" Then we stare out of the cave, or out of our house, or out of the front door of the church and face the question: "What SHOULD we do?" And then a bunch of us get together and look at each other and say: "What ARE we going to do?"

I can see Joe the Plumber or someone driving to work, or driving between appointments, wishing for a bit of "faith ear candy" on the radio. But what if there is only one frequency available in my community and some national broadcaster has it, and the "theology" expressed by that nationally programmed channel is foreign to my community. Not a single place of worship in my entire town, county or region has seen fit to embrace that particular expression of the faith. Do we see that as a sanctioned mission giving the residents opportunity to hear something new? Do we see that as depriving the existing, organized worshippers of having a channel to reinforce what is already accepted within the community?

The big bomb: WHO gets to make that decision. (We're pretty sure that is NOT a government function in this country.) If we could locate an group, an authority that SHOULD make that decision, HOW do they decide who gets the channel, and how do they decide what is the proper use of that channel?

I guess that puts us right back where we are today!

Hello Goat Rodeo Cowboy, good to hear from you. What I've noticed here in Wilmington, the mainline denominations tend to buy a 1/2 hour block of time on one of the commercial AM stations to do their Sunday broadcast. So as long as they're willing to pay, it seems that commercial AM's will allow Sunday morning to be used for the so called "God Squad" shows. As far as if only one station is available who picks who gets to own it. I guess first come first served via the FCC, be it religious or secular.

As RDP said, there are places that simply would not have any Christian radio if it were not for translators, so better a Christian translator than nothing.

Goat Rodeo Cowboy does bring up a good question though, if the one Christian station has beliefs that are not generally the one's expressed in your town (Family Radio comes to mind as Howard Camping has some views I don't agree with). In a city of large Roman Catholic participation and domination as many eastern cities have, my guess is his station would get nearly zero listenership and zero financial support from that town, so he'll either have to look at that market as truly a evangelistic effort where he is hoping for some conversions, etc, looking at it truly in a missionary vision, or cut his losses and sell the station or translator to someone else thus allowing the market to work.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

The big bomb: WHO gets to make that decision.

Simple. Whoever has the most money - whether or not they are effective in ministry or not.

I am sorry, but I simply cannot get excited at the prospect of another Moody, AFR, or Calvary chapel ministering to a few dozen listeners over 60. They may have the money - but I cannot find a single person, not even Christians, that listen. I can find plenty of Christians that think they are a waste of electricity and a waste of a frequency.

 

[xmusicmatt]

...And no I'm not going to be able to bring a new satellator station to Selma Alabama. The non-com band is filled up and there's no more spaces opened for a new station. If I'm able to establish something, I'll have to locate at 93.3 FM and/or on AM. Since AM has many issues, I'm fishing for a FM broadcast.

...And since my hometown has a higher percentage of older folks than young, CCM wouldn't fair as well. Just to bring something positive and uplifting to my hometown would be a blessing indeed. Since I love R.C. Sproul and his style of Preaching, I want to have a radio station that caters to that style and presentation.

The only problem I have is why put another station on air that with a format that is already being done in the area. AFA, MBN etc are already catering to that crowd, another station doing the same type of programming seems like a waste of RF space. a Christian AC or CHR station would cater to a greater specturm of listeners, including those non beleiving folks.

Also, while you may view the area right now with a great deal of folks 60+ they won't be around forever.. who would support these multiple stations playing the same formatics when their gone?

The median age of Selma residents is 36. I also noticed there is a AFB near there. I would think a Christian AC or CHR station that lets the music speak to the listener would do better than another preaching/teaching/inspo station when that area is already covered.

--Matt

 

[R.D.P.]

Redeemer does more music than AFR and Moody. Our AFR Station has gone to all talk. Moody does some music but it's on the weekends and early in the morning. Our population is less than 50,000 residents. Most of the youth population is leaving anyway, due to high crime and a lack of jobs.

I've been Praying and working for the establishment of a WAY FM and/or K-Love type of station here. Been doing this for a long time now and so far it hasn't worked out. About a year ago while I was Praying, God lead me to the wonderful web site of Redeemer Radio. For some reason I checked out their presentation and just fell in love with it. After we started talking and communicating, God was working within our talks. This past Friday, after coming home from a Men's Bible Study, I got a letter from Redeemer and it said that we want to help you bring a new Christian Radio Station to Selma Alabama. When I got that letter, I was excited and stoked. At this moment, we're now trying to get a broadcast of theirs here. I hope that all my work and praying will soon result in a new radio station, for my hometown. I don't know how much power we'll have, what the calls will be or where we'll be located but I hope for this to happen, once we get the ball rolling:

WSGW
93.3 FM
Valley Grande/Selma Alabama
We're Spreading God's Word
50,000 Watts of Redeemer Radio for Central Alabama

R.D.P. <><

P.S. Whatever God allows me to have, I'll be thankful for His blessing and then use it to help change my community and bring it back to the blessed Trinity.