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Translators of cable stations in remote areas?

C

clichemoth

I was just reading through the database at W9WI and I noticed that some cable-only networks or really distant stations have translators in some remote parts of the West.

ESPN, CNN, WGN, TBS, and Spike apparently all have translators near Duncan, Arizona on 51, 35, 55, 57, and 67, respectively.

The Outdoor Channel is on 59 in Cortez, Colorado.

Iowa Falls, Iowa has a bunch also, including Lifetime on 19 and Turner Classic Movies on 55.

Alexandria, Minnesota is another hotbed, with TV Land on 16, CBC North(??? I could see a Canadian station near the border having translators on this side, and MT/ND has several of those, but the Yukon/NT/Nunavut feed?) on 21, the Weather Channel on 50, the History Channel on 52, GAC on 55, the Discovery Channel on 58, MSNBC on 60, Hallmark on 62, and C-SPAN on 65.

Does Doug or anyone else know what the deal is with these? Are they where the signal is sent to the satellite? Are they scrambled in any way or can the few residents of these areas just watch for free? Do they have legal IDs that are also sent to us cable viewers and is there any way to detect them?
 
> I was just reading through the database at W9WI and I
> noticed that some cable-only networks or really distant
> stations have translators in some remote parts of the West.
>
> ESPN, CNN, WGN, TBS, and Spike apparently all have
> translators near Duncan, Arizona on 51, 35, 55, 57, and 67,
> respectively.
>
> The Outdoor Channel is on 59 in Cortez, Colorado.
>
> Iowa Falls, Iowa has a bunch also, including Lifetime on 19
> and Turner Classic Movies on 55.
>
> Alexandria, Minnesota is another hotbed, with TV Land on 16,
> CBC North(??? I could see a Canadian station near the border
> having translators on this side, and MT/ND has several of
> those, but the Yukon/NT/Nunavut feed?) on 21, the Weather
> Channel on 50, the History Channel on 52, GAC on 55, the
> Discovery Channel on 58, MSNBC on 60, Hallmark on 62, and
> C-SPAN on 65.
>
> Does Doug or anyone else know what the deal is with these?
> Are they where the signal is sent to the satellite? Are
> they scrambled in any way or can the few residents of these
> areas just watch for free? Do they have legal IDs that are
> also sent to us cable viewers and is there any way to detect
> them?
>

Just to add info

Click Here --> <a target="_blank" href=http://www.w9wi.com/tvdb/states/mn.htm>Link to W9WI Minnesota</a>

Click here --> <a target="_blank" href=http://www.w9wi.com/tvdb/states/az.htm>Link to W9WI Arizona</a>

Click Here --> <a target="_blank" href=http://www.w9wi.com/tvdb/tvdb_qth.htm>Link To W9WI Database By States </a>

Click Here --> <a target="_blank" href=http://www.w9wi.com/tvdb/index.htm> Link To W9WI Database by Channel Number</a><P ID="signature">______________
Once I figured out the meaning of life....Then I forgot to write it down.</P>
 
> > I was just reading through the database at W9WI and I
> > noticed that some cable-only networks or really distant
> > stations have translators in some remote parts of the
> West.
> >
> > ESPN, CNN, WGN, TBS, and Spike apparently all have
> > translators near Duncan, Arizona on 51, 35, 55, 57, and
> 67,
> > respectively.
> >
> > The Outdoor Channel is on 59 in Cortez, Colorado.
> >
> > Iowa Falls, Iowa has a bunch also, including Lifetime on
> 19
> > and Turner Classic Movies on 55.
> >
> > Alexandria, Minnesota is another hotbed, with TV Land on
> 16,
> > CBC North(??? I could see a Canadian station near the
> border
> > having translators on this side, and MT/ND has several of
> > those, but the Yukon/NT/Nunavut feed?) on 21, the Weather
> > Channel on 50, the History Channel on 52, GAC on 55, the
> > Discovery Channel on 58, MSNBC on 60, Hallmark on 62, and
> > C-SPAN on 65.
> >
> > Does Doug or anyone else know what the deal is with these?
>
> > Are they where the signal is sent to the satellite? Are
> > they scrambled in any way or can the few residents of
> these
> > areas just watch for free? Do they have legal IDs that
> are
> > also sent to us cable viewers and is there any way to
> detect
> > them?
> >
>
> Just to add info
>
> Click Here --> Link to W9WI Minnesota
>
> Click here --> Link to W9WI Arizona
>
> Click Here --> Link To W9WI Database By States
>
> Click Here --> Link To W9WI Database by Channel Number
>

And here are the <a href ="http://www.w9wi.com/tvdb/states/ia.htm">Iowa</a> and <a href ="http://www.w9wi.com/tvdb/states/co.htm">Colorado</a> links.

The existence of these just seems odd to me. Canada has some translators of US stations like WTBS, WGN, WNGS, and WXYZ in really remote areas as well.
 
> I was just reading through the database at W9WI and I
> noticed that some cable-only networks or really distant
> stations have translators in some remote parts of the West.
>
> ESPN, CNN, WGN, TBS, and Spike apparently all have
> translators near Duncan, Arizona on 51, 35, 55, 57, and 67,
> respectively.
...
> Does Doug or anyone else know what the deal is with these?
> Are they where the signal is sent to the satellite? Are
> they scrambled in any way or can the few residents of these
> areas just watch for free? Do they have legal IDs that are
> also sent to us cable viewers and is there any way to detect
> them?
>

I can give you a little info on the Duncan stations. Ch. 67 was TNT the last time I checked, 2 months ago. They also offer Showtime on ch. 39. The signals have minimal scrambling - you can pick them up on a portable TV, but there's no sound, and it's like watching a negative image. In addition, they also scramble some of the local stations - IIRC, ch. 49 which translates KSAZ 10 Phoenix is also "scrambled". I would imagine that they pick up the non-local signals via satellite. Southern Greenlee County TV Association in Duncan runs all of the translators, except for chs. 17 and 20.
 
> The existence of these just seems odd to me.

Many small communities have sort of a "wireless cable vua LPTV" system using LPTV tramsmitters, since the are far from the larger markets and some residents can't have traditional cable or even dish. Some of these systems are run PBS-style by local "TV associations", requesting donations. Some are private companies, scrambling the signals and having viewers pay a monthly fee (not unlike big-city subscription TV efforts of the early-1980s, like On TV).

> Canada has some
> translators of US stations like WTBS, WGN, WNGS, and WXYZ in
> really remote areas as well.
>
The situation in rural Canada is the same as rural US, with the same "wireless cable" concept.

However -- WNGS on cable in Canada? You can hardly get its analog signal in Buffalo, not to mention most of its programming are infomercials. (Unless some rural system picks up WNGS directly off of Equity's satellite master control feed).
 
> The existence of these just seems odd to me. Canada has some
> translators of US stations like WTBS, WGN, WNGS, and WXYZ in
> really remote areas as well.
----------
Last time I checked, WNGS 67 in Springville, New York didn't have translators in Canada...heck, their signal barely even reaches Buffalo. Did you mean another station? The original four Detroit stations are commonly found on Canadian translators, as well as A&E, Headline News, CNN, and Spike.

EDIT: Looks like Rugrats1 posted at the same time as me. It is my understanding also that WNGS is not approved for cable carriage in Canada. I doubt that they will ever get the analog power increase they've been asking for since 1997. If they increased to the proposed 5000 kW, I could watch them with a rooftop antenna. Oh, and they do have one good program...CHEERS!<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by mjlarochelle on 10/05/05 03:46 AM.</FONT></P>
 
> Last time I checked, WNGS 67 in Springville, New York didn't
> have translators in Canada...heck, their signal barely even
> reaches Buffalo.

Maybe some rural system in Canada picked up WNGS off of the satellite -- Equity runs master control for all its stations from Little Rock and transmits them via satellite directly to its transmitters and the serving cable headends. And since the signals are unscrambled, anyone with a linear Ku dish and a proper receiver can get the signals.
 
> > I was just reading through the database at W9WI and I
> > noticed that some cable-only networks or really distant
> > stations have translators in some remote parts of the
> West.
> >
> > ESPN, CNN, WGN, TBS, and Spike apparently all have
> > translators near Duncan, Arizona on 51, 35, 55, 57, and
> 67,
> > respectively.
> ...
> > Does Doug or anyone else know what the deal is with these?
>
> > Are they where the signal is sent to the satellite? Are
> > they scrambled in any way or can the few residents of
> these
> > areas just watch for free? Do they have legal IDs that
> are
> > also sent to us cable viewers and is there any way to
> detect
> > them?
> >
>
> I can give you a little info on the Duncan stations. Ch. 67
> was TNT the last time I checked, 2 months ago. They also
> offer Showtime on ch. 39. The signals have minimal
> scrambling - you can pick them up on a portable TV, but
> there's no sound, and it's like watching a negative image.
> In addition, they also scramble some of the local stations -
> IIRC, ch. 49 which translates KSAZ 10 Phoenix is also
> "scrambled". I would imagine that they pick up the
> non-local signals via satellite. Southern Greenlee County
> TV Association in Duncan runs all of the translators, except
> for chs. 17 and 20.
>

I'd guess that the other similar clusters around the country scramble their signals similarly, which answers one question. But not the other two. Are there any legal IDs on these that you've seen? And why do they exist in the first place?
 
> Just to add info
>
> Click Here --> Link to W9WI Minnesota
>
> Click here --> Link to W9WI Arizona
>
> Click Here --> Link To W9WI Database By States
>
> Click Here --> Link To W9WI Database by Channel Number
>
You know, I was recalling that Canadian networks CBC and CTV were carried on translators in the Cortez, CO several years ago. Then, I checked the W9WI database and there they are.

I know that the translator system in Montezuma County Co is run by an association, but I always wondered how they got away with rebroadcasting the CBC and CTV. Nonetheless, it's really cool!

They also pull in - and rebroadcast- independent KJZZ from Salt Lake City (360 miles away)!
 
Re: Translators of cable stations in remote areas? Partial Answer

> I'd guess that the other similar clusters around the country
> scramble their signals similarly, which answers one
> question. But not the other two. Are there any legal IDs
> on these that you've seen? And why do they exist in the
> first place?
>
Well here's a partial answer

In Alexandria MN, the channels are owned by <a target="_blank" href=http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:9cKRt9_AylcJ:www.echopress.com/article.cfm%3FArticle_ID%3D28828+%22selective+TV+inc%22+echo&hl=en>Google Cache of Article</a>

"From Above Link" (See link for full article)

"Just because the signal is there doesn’t mean it doesn’t cost us anything to bring it to the viewers; we get charged just like the cable and satellite companies," noted Selective TV in a news release.

Selective TV does not charge a monthly fee. Viewers voluntarily contribute a maintenance fee every year of $60 to keep the system operational. Partial payments are also accepted.

Without any voluntary contributions, Selective TV would cease to exist and people would have only two free local channels to view — KSAX (ABC) on UHF channel 42 and KCCO (CBS) on VHF channel 7.

Here is <a target="_blank" href=http://www.canadian-tv.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Programming&Number=222069&page=&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=3&vc=1>From a forum in Canadian-tv.com</a> Go to the 4th post and start reading


Here is another website with <a target="_blank" href=http://www.northpine.com/broadcast/mn/tv.html> Minnesota Translators</a>
 
> I'd guess that the other similar clusters around the country
> scramble their signals similarly, which answers one
> question. But not the other two. Are there any legal IDs
> on these that you've seen? And why do they exist in the
> first place?
>

I'm not sure what you're asking for with the legal ID's - the signal is the same signal you'd get from cable. If there's anything with the signal behind the scenes that's not visible to the viewer, I don't know about it.

I'm also not sure what you're asking for when you ask why they exist, other than the obvious answer that it's what the people want. The area is widespread and too sparsely populated to make cable TV viable, and I guess Southern Greenlee Cty TV Assn wanted value-added instead of just translators of the Tucson and Phoenix stations.
 
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