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Trends in CHR/Rhythmic...Dance's new opportunity?

S

szorn

Guest
Today's trends (they are just that I understand) show the 3 big cities CHR/Rhythmics aka Blazin Hip-Hop and R&B continue to TREND downward and far from any glory days. Is this the window of opportunity for dance to energize the rhythmic downward trend on the radio? Are these trends suggesting people want something different to dance to? How about real dance hits?

Looking at the trends:

B-96 -- continues to fall
Power 106 -- the same as the B
Hot 97 -- not as bad but downward not upward

What do you all think? I have no professional opinion here just my thoughts.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Z on 02/27/06 11:19 PM.</FONT></P>
 
> Today's trends (they are just that I understand) show the 3
> big cities CHR/Rhythmics aka Blazin Hip-Hop and R&B continue
> to TREND downward and far from any glory days. Is this the
> window of opportunity for dance to energize the rhythmic
> downward trend on the radio? Are these trends suggesting
> people want something different to dance to? How about real
> dance hits?
>
> Looking at the trends:
>
> B-96 -- continues to fall
> Power 106 -- the same as the B
> Hot 97 -- not as bad but downward not upward
>
> What do you all think? I have no professional opinion here
> just my thoughts.
>
Only 1 problem there; the stations that are bypassing them are doing so by stealing all the hot hip hop and r&b tracks(as per the resurgent Z100,conquering the tri state area lately); with the exception of Cascada,they're not playing any other dance currents that I know of, so hip hop/r&b IS still winning, only under different circumstances,as it has become mainstream pop music!
 
> >
> Only 1 problem there; the stations that are bypassing them
> are doing so by stealing all the hot hip hop and r&b
> tracks(as per the resurgent Z100,conquering the tri state
> area lately); with the exception of Cascada,they're not
> playing any other dance currents that I know of, so hip
> hop/r&b IS still winning, only under different
> circumstances,as it has become mainstream pop music!
>
I think David Eduardo has already chimed in on the reason many Rhythmics are losing some audience shares - the new young end Hispanic/Hurban stations are a primary cause. So in many respects you're right, but it's not necessarily the CHR/Pop stations ala Z-100 New York which are the cause.
If you've noticed even in L.A. 102.7 KIIS-FM, which was leaning VERY Rhythmic for a while has started to add back more non Urban Pop and Rock hits to its playlist.

Would be awesome to see stations like B-96 revert back to their glory days sound with plenty of crossover Dance on the playlist.
 
Re: WKTU Trends down though. Reaching some scary terriorty now

Speaking of trends.. On the other side, WKTU is down to a 2.6. Thats the lowest I've seen it. They are not doing something right with all this classic dance stuff. The way I see it,they have nothing to loose by leaning more current again.


> > >
> > Only 1 problem there; the stations that are bypassing them
>
> > are doing so by stealing all the hot hip hop and r&b
> > tracks(as per the resurgent Z100,conquering the tri state
> > area lately); with the exception of Cascada,they're not
> > playing any other dance currents that I know of, so hip
> > hop/r&b IS still winning, only under different
> > circumstances,as it has become mainstream pop music!
> >
> I think David Eduardo has already chimed in on the reason
> many Rhythmics are losing some audience shares - the new
> young end Hispanic/Hurban stations are a primary cause. So
> in many respects you're right, but it's not necessarily the
> CHR/Pop stations ala Z-100 New York which are the cause.
> If you've noticed even in L.A. 102.7 KIIS-FM, which was
> leaning VERY Rhythmic for a while has started to add back
> more non Urban Pop and Rock hits to its playlist.
>
> Would be awesome to see stations like B-96 revert back to
> their glory days sound with plenty of crossover Dance on the
> playlist.
>
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by RyanCA on 02/28/06 05:28 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: WKTU Trends down though. Reaching some scary terriorty now

> Speaking of trends.. On the other side, WKTU is down to a
> 2.6. Thats the lowest I've seen it. They are not doing
> something right with all this classic dance stuff. The way I
> see it,they have nothing to loose by leaning more current
> again.
>

The problem is that KTU is VERY protective of its older demos, and is also worried their ratings would be LOWER if they let Mix 102.7 be the only one station playing Retro Dance hits.
Personally I'd wish for KTU to be more Current-intensive, but I understand the dilema the station faces.
 
Re: WKTU Trends down though. Reaching some scary terriorty now

> > Speaking of trends.. On the other side, WKTU is down to a
> > 2.6. Thats the lowest I've seen it. They are not doing
> > something right with all this classic dance stuff. The way
> I
> > see it,they have nothing to loose by leaning more current
> > again.
> >
>
> The problem is that KTU is VERY protective of its older
> demos, and is also worried their ratings would be LOWER if
> they let Mix 102.7 be the only one station playing Retro
> Dance hits.
> Personally I'd wish for KTU to be more Current-intensive,
> but I understand the dilema the station faces.
> The fault is not KTU; the fault is the appeal of the currents being released; see various other "Jimi" discussions concerning currents on this board and on page 2 of the NYC board; dumping classics and playing the current batch of 'currents' would find them rubbing shoulders with Jack(Off) FM at the bottom of the barrel.
 
Re: WKTU Trends down though. Reaching some scary terriorty now

> > > Speaking of trends.. On the other side, WKTU is down to
> a
> > > 2.6. Thats the lowest I've seen it. They are not doing
> > > something right with all this classic dance stuff. The
> way
> > I
> > > see it,they have nothing to loose by leaning more
> current
> > > again.
> > >
> >
> > The problem is that KTU is VERY protective of its older
> > demos, and is also worried their ratings would be LOWER if
>
> > they let Mix 102.7 be the only one station playing Retro
> > Dance hits.
> > Personally I'd wish for KTU to be more Current-intensive,
> > but I understand the dilema the station faces.
> > The fault is not KTU; the fault is the appeal of the
> currents being released; see various other "Jimi"
> discussions concerning currents on this board and on page 2
> of the NYC board; dumping classics and playing the current
> batch of 'currents' would find them rubbing shoulders with
> Jack(Off) FM at the bottom of the barrel.
>

Once again from a personal standpoint I think there's a lot of great current Dance music product. However, based on the performance in recent years of other Dance leaning stations in AMERICA I'm not sure Jimi is off by much.
Unfortunately the audience in the USA just doesn't seem to be as open or as hip to Dance music as the folks over in Europe. All I can do is hope that things can change for the better, but if they don't I've got a thousand and one other sources where I can listen to the type of Dance stations I enjoy :)
 
Re: WKTU Trends down though. Reaching some scary terriorty now

> > > > Speaking of trends.. On the other side, WKTU is down
> to
> > a
> > > > 2.6. Thats the lowest I've seen it. They are not doing
>
> > > > something right with all this classic dance stuff. The
>
> > way
> > > I
> > > > see it,they have nothing to loose by leaning more
> > current
> > > > again.
> > > >
> > >
> > > The problem is that KTU is VERY protective of its older
> > > demos, and is also worried their ratings would be LOWER
> if
> >
> > > they let Mix 102.7 be the only one station playing Retro
>
> > > Dance hits.
> > > Personally I'd wish for KTU to be more
> Current-intensive,
> > > but I understand the dilema the station faces.
> > > The fault is not KTU; the fault is the appeal of the
> > currents being released; see various other "Jimi"
> > discussions concerning currents on this board and on page
> 2
> > of the NYC board; dumping classics and playing the
> current
> > batch of 'currents' would find them rubbing shoulders with
>
> > Jack(Off) FM at the bottom of the barrel.
> >
>
> Once again from a personal standpoint I think there's a lot
> of great current Dance music product. However, based on the
> performance in recent years of other Dance leaning stations
> in AMERICA I'm not sure Jimi is off by much.
> Unfortunately the audience in the USA just doesn't seem to
> be as open or as hip to Dance music as the folks over in
> Europe. All I can do is hope that things can change for the
> better, but if they don't I've got a thousand and one other
> sources where I can listen to the type of Dance stations I
> enjoy :)
>

I will only say this. If 'KTU flips format later this year because of this whole Mix ratings "war", do not be shocked. And it's their OWN doing.

I actually do not blame Jeff Z (PD) with this. My strong hunch is that he's only working with numbers that the sales department is passing on to him. And if the sales department is worried about their core audience and working on getting older and off format, sales reps WILL be losing jobs or just jump over to the next station on 103.5

TONY SANTIAGO
 
Re: WKTU Trends down though. Reaching some scary terriorty now

> > > Speaking of trends.. On the other side, WKTU is down to
> a
> > > 2.6. Thats the lowest I've seen it. They are not doing
> > > something right with all this classic dance stuff. The
> way
> > I
> > > see it,they have nothing to loose by leaning more
> current
> > > again.
> > >
> >
> > The problem is that KTU is VERY protective of its older
> > demos, and is also worried their ratings would be LOWER if
>
> > they let Mix 102.7 be the only one station playing Retro
> > Dance hits.
> > Personally I'd wish for KTU to be more Current-intensive,
> > but I understand the dilema the station faces.
> > The fault is not KTU; the fault is the appeal of the
> currents being released; see various other "Jimi"
> discussions concerning currents on this board and on page 2
> of the NYC board; dumping classics and playing the current
> batch of 'currents' would find them rubbing shoulders with
> Jack(Off) FM at the bottom of the barrel.
>



Theres plenty of great dance records for KTU to choose from. You don't know what could happen. It could swing the other way. I'm not saying abandon classics but add more currents. Dump the No repeat workday.
 
Re: WKTU Trends down though. Reaching some scary terriorty now

"Unfortunately the audience in the USA just doesn't seem to
be as open or as hip to Dance music as the folks over in
Europe."

While I agree with the above statement. I also have come to the conclusion that dance labels, media companies, etc, need to do a lot more outside the box promotion to find the audience that is without a doubt out there.

A couple of months ago, I asked here about MySpace.com and suggested that everyone get on there and work it. I was very late to that party, but the results that we are seeing from being on there are enormous. I cannot tell you how many people have commented that they never knew how great some of the tracks that we put out were because they never heard this kind of music before. The public is out there but we need to put the music where they are to get it exposed.

The "Everytime We Touch"/MySpace story is amazing, I can go into the details if anyone is interested. It helped this record become a hit. There is no doubt about it. Radio drove it home but MySpace was the pavement.

So let's get out there and continue to expose our music to not only those that are club goers but to the social networking sites, to any buzz areas. This music has been brow beaten for years and it's time we started to fight back with better music and better lifestyle type promotional efforts. We're doing our part and I hope the other labels and dance music lovers will do the same.

jp
 
Re: WKTU Trends down though. Reaching some scary terriorty now

Well said John. Myspace is huge. I jumped on when no one when knew about it and it sold for over a hundred million! Promotion Promotion Promotion! If you promote it they will come. BTW John some girl here in the Philly has Jenn Bliss playing on her page! Dance music has to be in the face of the mainstream. There are so really good records out there that have the potential to cross into the mainstream and I hope for the music sake they follow the footsteps of Cascada and even come up with new ways of marketing. I think this one of the panels for WMC. I would love to give my two cents at that.

Hope to see you Friday night John
 
Re: WKTU Trends down though. Reaching some scary terriorty now

> > Speaking of trends.. On the other side, WKTU is down to a
> > 2.6. Thats the lowest I've seen it. They are not doing
> > something right with all this classic dance stuff. The way
> I
> > see it,they have nothing to loose by leaning more current
> > again.
> >
>
> The problem is that KTU is VERY protective of its older
> demos, and is also worried their ratings would be LOWER if
> they let Mix 102.7 be the only one station playing Retro
> Dance hits.
> Personally I'd wish for KTU to be more Current-intensive,
> but I understand the dilema the station faces.
>

We like to complain as dance fans, but you said it like it would be said from an owner's/PD's/company's point of view, where people's jobs depend on things. While we might be hoping for more new music exposure, they know what they're doing. Although a tweaking here and there might not hurt. Good post.
 
Re: WKTU Trends down though. Reaching some scary terriorty now

> > The fault is not KTU; the fault is the appeal of the
> currents being released; see various other "Jimi"
> discussions concerning currents on this board and on page 2
> of the NYC board; dumping classics and playing the current
> batch of 'currents' would find them rubbing shoulders with
> Jack(Off) FM at the bottom of the barrel.

One of the best posts I've seen in a while. There are not many good currents, and going too current intensive would kill the ratings. Great post.
 
Re: WKTU Trends down though. Reaching some scary terriorty now

> > > The fault is not KTU; the fault is the appeal of the
> > currents being released; see various other "Jimi"
> > discussions concerning currents on this board and on page
> 2
> > of the NYC board; dumping classics and playing the
> current
> > batch of 'currents' would find them rubbing shoulders with
>
> > Jack(Off) FM at the bottom of the barrel.
>
> One of the best posts I've seen in a while. There are not
> many good currents, and going too current intensive would
> kill the ratings. Great post.
>
THANK YOU! There ARE MANY good currents, just NOT GOOD for mainstream radio; do tell the kids at KTU how wise it might be to play a broad appeal crowd pleaser like "Dance Floor" by Jimi La Lumia!
 
Re: WKTU Trends down though. Reaching some scary terriorty now

> "Unfortunately the audience in the USA just doesn't seem to
> be as open or as hip to Dance music as the folks over in
> Europe."
>
> While I agree with the above statement. I also have come to
> the conclusion that dance labels, media companies, etc, need
> to do a lot more outside the box promotion to find the
> audience that is without a doubt out there.
>
> A couple of months ago, I asked here about MySpace.com and
> suggested that everyone get on there and work it. I was
> very late to that party, but the results that we are seeing
> from being on there are enormous. I cannot tell you how
> many people have commented that they never knew how great
> some of the tracks that we put out were because they never
> heard this kind of music before. The public is out there
> but we need to put the music where they are to get it
> exposed.
>
> The "Everytime We Touch"/MySpace story is amazing, I can go
> into the details if anyone is interested. It helped this
> record become a hit. There is no doubt about it. Radio
> drove it home but MySpace was the pavement.
>
> So let's get out there and continue to expose our music to
> not only those that are club goers but to the social
> networking sites, to any buzz areas. This music has been
> brow beaten for years and it's time we started to fight back
> with better music and better lifestyle type promotional
> efforts. We're doing our part and I hope the other labels
> and dance music lovers will do the same.
>
> jp
>

Very good post. John knows what he's doing. Artists, especially dance music artists, HAVE to take advantage of promotional avenues like this. It can be as important as traditional promotional methods that have been done for years.
 
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