R
Radio55
Guest
I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS ON THE RATINGS FOR TULSA THAT CAME OUT NOV 30, PARTICULARLY IN COUNTRY RADIO.
THANKS.
THANKS.
-
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R
Radio55
Guest
Has anyone seen any numbers for Tulsa?
> I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS ON THE RATINGS
> FOR TULSA THAT CAME OUT NOV 30, PARTICULARLY IN COUNTRY
> RADIO.
>
> THANKS.
>
> I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS ON THE RATINGS
> FOR TULSA THAT CAME OUT NOV 30, PARTICULARLY IN COUNTRY
> RADIO.
>
> THANKS.
>
I
icdollars
Guest
> Has anyone seen any numbers for Tulsa?
>
>
> > I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS ON THE
> RATINGS
> > FOR TULSA THAT CAME OUT NOV 30, PARTICULARLY IN COUNTRY
> > RADIO.
> >
> > THANKS.
> >
>
The big winners were KHTT, KJSR, KBEZ and KVOO-FM. KVOO did beat out KWEN in the monthly. It looked like every Kiss listener and their extended families migrated to K-Hits.
>
>
> > I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS ON THE
> RATINGS
> > FOR TULSA THAT CAME OUT NOV 30, PARTICULARLY IN COUNTRY
> > RADIO.
> >
> > THANKS.
> >
>
The big winners were KHTT, KJSR, KBEZ and KVOO-FM. KVOO did beat out KWEN in the monthly. It looked like every Kiss listener and their extended families migrated to K-Hits.
L
lowprofile
Guest
> The big winners were KHTT, KJSR, KBEZ and KVOO-FM. KVOO did
> beat out KWEN in the monthly. It looked like every Kiss
> listener and their extended families migrated to K-Hits.
>
I'm curious, how does going up 1/10th of a point represent a big win? Also, how could the ratings reflect any "migration" of former KIZS listeners when this trend represented listening in August, September and October?
> beat out KWEN in the monthly. It looked like every Kiss
> listener and their extended families migrated to K-Hits.
>
I'm curious, how does going up 1/10th of a point represent a big win? Also, how could the ratings reflect any "migration" of former KIZS listeners when this trend represented listening in August, September and October?
G
GaryThompson
Guest
Good points.
>
> I'm curious, how does going up 1/10th of a point represent a
> big win? Also, how could the ratings reflect any
> "migration" of former KIZS listeners when this trend
> represented listening in August, September and October?
>
>
> I'm curious, how does going up 1/10th of a point represent a
> big win? Also, how could the ratings reflect any
> "migration" of former KIZS listeners when this trend
> represented listening in August, September and October?
>
I
icdollars
Guest
> Good points.
>
>
> >
> > I'm curious, how does going up 1/10th of a point represent
> a
> > big win? Also, how could the ratings reflect any
> > "migration" of former KIZS listeners when this trend
> > represented listening in August, September and October?
> >
>
Was looking at the individual month of Oct. not the rolling. Afterall, it will be in the Fall book and last time I checked August and September won't be.
>
>
> >
> > I'm curious, how does going up 1/10th of a point represent
> a
> > big win? Also, how could the ratings reflect any
> > "migration" of former KIZS listeners when this trend
> > represented listening in August, September and October?
> >
>
Was looking at the individual month of Oct. not the rolling. Afterall, it will be in the Fall book and last time I checked August and September won't be.
L
lowprofile
Guest
> > Good points.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I'm curious, how does going up 1/10th of a point
> represent
> > a
> > > big win? Also, how could the ratings reflect any
> > > "migration" of former KIZS listeners when this trend
> > > represented listening in August, September and October?
> > >
> >
> Was looking at the individual month of Oct. not the rolling.
> Afterall, it will be in the Fall book and last time I
> checked August and September won't be.
>
You can't read anything into individual months. If they're extrapolations, they are wildly innacurate. If they're the monthlies from Arbitron, they are unweighted and more importantly, aren't representative of the sample. For example, say Arbitron must get 200 diaries from 18-34 males to be within their projected sample for the fall book. They won't get 67 in October, 67 in November and 66 in December. They take what they can get. If they get all 200 in October and November, they stop recruiting 18-34 males, scheduling ones they come across in their recruiting of other demos to participate in the next survey. If they're short on 18-34 males in October and November, they will pull out all the stops (shudder) to make their number in the month of December. It's not till you get the full survey that you approach any sort of statistical reliability.
Besides, it takes months for a competitor's going away to reflect in a station's ratings. I guarantee you if you check the diary comments a year from now, you'll still see people writing down "92.1 Kiss FM". It sucks, but perception is reality; that's what you live and die by in radio.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I'm curious, how does going up 1/10th of a point
> represent
> > a
> > > big win? Also, how could the ratings reflect any
> > > "migration" of former KIZS listeners when this trend
> > > represented listening in August, September and October?
> > >
> >
> Was looking at the individual month of Oct. not the rolling.
> Afterall, it will be in the Fall book and last time I
> checked August and September won't be.
>
You can't read anything into individual months. If they're extrapolations, they are wildly innacurate. If they're the monthlies from Arbitron, they are unweighted and more importantly, aren't representative of the sample. For example, say Arbitron must get 200 diaries from 18-34 males to be within their projected sample for the fall book. They won't get 67 in October, 67 in November and 66 in December. They take what they can get. If they get all 200 in October and November, they stop recruiting 18-34 males, scheduling ones they come across in their recruiting of other demos to participate in the next survey. If they're short on 18-34 males in October and November, they will pull out all the stops (shudder) to make their number in the month of December. It's not till you get the full survey that you approach any sort of statistical reliability.
Besides, it takes months for a competitor's going away to reflect in a station's ratings. I guarantee you if you check the diary comments a year from now, you'll still see people writing down "92.1 Kiss FM". It sucks, but perception is reality; that's what you live and die by in radio.
G
GaryThompson
Guest
You're absolutely right.
Case in point: When Jim Marbles retired and left our morning show 3 years ago...in some cases we were still getting questions on "Why Marbles had 'recently' left" close to two years later.
The Titanic didn't turn on a dime...and listener perception doesn't either.
I guarantee you if you
> check the diary comments a year from now, you'll still see
> people writing down "92.1 Kiss FM". It sucks, but
> perception is reality; that's what you live and die by in
> radio.
>
Case in point: When Jim Marbles retired and left our morning show 3 years ago...in some cases we were still getting questions on "Why Marbles had 'recently' left" close to two years later.
The Titanic didn't turn on a dime...and listener perception doesn't either.
I guarantee you if you
> check the diary comments a year from now, you'll still see
> people writing down "92.1 Kiss FM". It sucks, but
> perception is reality; that's what you live and die by in
> radio.
>
I
icdollars
Guest
> You're absolutely right.
>
> Case in point: When Jim Marbles retired and left our morning
> show 3 years ago...in some cases we were still getting
> questions on "Why Marbles had 'recently' left" close to two
> years later.
>
> The Titanic didn't turn on a dime...and listener perception
> doesn't either.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I guarantee you if you
> > check the diary comments a year from now, you'll still see
>
> > people writing down "92.1 Kiss FM". It sucks, but
> > perception is reality; that's what you live and die by in
> > radio.
> >
> Perceptions-yes very hard to change. Habits-no. People change stations instantly when there is an abrupt switch in formats. The trick is to capture that switch. If there was a recipe for that we would all be out of work!
>
> Case in point: When Jim Marbles retired and left our morning
> show 3 years ago...in some cases we were still getting
> questions on "Why Marbles had 'recently' left" close to two
> years later.
>
> The Titanic didn't turn on a dime...and listener perception
> doesn't either.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I guarantee you if you
> > check the diary comments a year from now, you'll still see
>
> > people writing down "92.1 Kiss FM". It sucks, but
> > perception is reality; that's what you live and die by in
> > radio.
> >
> Perceptions-yes very hard to change. Habits-no. People change stations instantly when there is an abrupt switch in formats. The trick is to capture that switch. If there was a recipe for that we would all be out of work!
> > > The big winners were KHTT, KJSR, KBEZ and KVOO-FM. KVOO
> > did
> > > beat out KWEN in the monthly. It looked like every Kiss
> > > listener and their extended families migrated to K-Hits.
>
> > >
> >
> > KBEZ is still on the air? Amazing.
> >
>
> KBEZ is eternal.
>
Eternally BAD.
Sounds like a low-rent radio station. Delilah is the only bright spot.
> > did
> > > beat out KWEN in the monthly. It looked like every Kiss
> > > listener and their extended families migrated to K-Hits.
>
> > >
> >
> > KBEZ is still on the air? Amazing.
> >
>
> KBEZ is eternal.
>
Eternally BAD.
Sounds like a low-rent radio station. Delilah is the only bright spot.
G
GaryThompson
Guest
How do their ratings look?
> > > > The big winners were KHTT, KJSR, KBEZ and KVOO-FM.
> KVOO
> > > did
> > > > beat out KWEN in the monthly. It looked like every
> Kiss
> > > > listener and their extended families migrated to
> K-Hits.
> >
> > > >
> > >
> > > KBEZ is still on the air? Amazing.
> > >
> >
> > KBEZ is eternal.
> >
>
> Eternally BAD.
>
> Sounds like a low-rent radio station. Delilah is the only
> bright spot.
>
> > > > The big winners were KHTT, KJSR, KBEZ and KVOO-FM.
> KVOO
> > > did
> > > > beat out KWEN in the monthly. It looked like every
> Kiss
> > > > listener and their extended families migrated to
> K-Hits.
> >
> > > >
> > >
> > > KBEZ is still on the air? Amazing.
> > >
> >
> > KBEZ is eternal.
> >
>
> Eternally BAD.
>
> Sounds like a low-rent radio station. Delilah is the only
> bright spot.
>
> > > > The big winners were KHTT, KJSR, KBEZ and KVOO-FM.
> KVOO
> > > did
> > > > beat out KWEN in the monthly. It looked like every
> Kiss
> > > > listener and their extended families migrated to
> K-Hits.
> >
> > > >
> > >
> > > KBEZ is still on the air? Amazing.
> > >
> >
> > KBEZ is eternal.
> >
>
> Eternally BAD.
>
> Sounds like a low-rent radio station. Delilah is the only
> bright spot.
>
Well, aren't you just a little ray of sunshine!
> KVOO
> > > did
> > > > beat out KWEN in the monthly. It looked like every
> Kiss
> > > > listener and their extended families migrated to
> K-Hits.
> >
> > > >
> > >
> > > KBEZ is still on the air? Amazing.
> > >
> >
> > KBEZ is eternal.
> >
>
> Eternally BAD.
>
> Sounds like a low-rent radio station. Delilah is the only
> bright spot.
>
Well, aren't you just a little ray of sunshine!
I
icdollars
Guest
> > > > The big winners were KHTT, KJSR, KBEZ and KVOO-FM.
> KVOO
> > > did
> > > > beat out KWEN in the monthly. It looked like every
> Kiss
> > > > listener and their extended families migrated to
> K-Hits.
> >
> > > >
> > >
> > > KBEZ is still on the air? Amazing.
> > >
> >
> > KBEZ is eternal.
> >
>
> Eternally BAD.
>
> Sounds like a low-rent radio station. Delilah is the only
> bright spot.
>
Spoken like a die-hard Clear Channel syndicated/voice tracked robot. Great post!
> KVOO
> > > did
> > > > beat out KWEN in the monthly. It looked like every
> Kiss
> > > > listener and their extended families migrated to
> K-Hits.
> >
> > > >
> > >
> > > KBEZ is still on the air? Amazing.
> > >
> >
> > KBEZ is eternal.
> >
>
> Eternally BAD.
>
> Sounds like a low-rent radio station. Delilah is the only
> bright spot.
>
Spoken like a die-hard Clear Channel syndicated/voice tracked robot. Great post!
L
lowprofile
Guest
> > Perceptions-yes very hard to change. Habits-no. People
> change stations instantly when there is an abrupt switch in
> formats. The trick is to capture that switch. If there was a
> recipe for that we would all be out of work!
>
Perhaps, but the point of all this is: (a), you can't put any faith in monthlies, whether extrapolated or from Arbitron, and (b), there has not been enough time for Kiss' demise to reflect itself in the ratings.
I once worked in a market where a station was off the air for a significant portion of the book. Their ratings went up. A diary review showed listeners giving them quarter-hours during the specific weeks they were off the air. Arbitron is not a measure of actual listening, it is a measure of percieved listening; it's a popularity contest, and will continue to be so until Arbitron comes up with a viable method of measuring actual listening..
> change stations instantly when there is an abrupt switch in
> formats. The trick is to capture that switch. If there was a
> recipe for that we would all be out of work!
>
Perhaps, but the point of all this is: (a), you can't put any faith in monthlies, whether extrapolated or from Arbitron, and (b), there has not been enough time for Kiss' demise to reflect itself in the ratings.
I once worked in a market where a station was off the air for a significant portion of the book. Their ratings went up. A diary review showed listeners giving them quarter-hours during the specific weeks they were off the air. Arbitron is not a measure of actual listening, it is a measure of percieved listening; it's a popularity contest, and will continue to be so until Arbitron comes up with a viable method of measuring actual listening..
You are absolutely correct. Trying to read anything into a monthly is insane!
A full book from Arbitron is barely accurate. Trying to get a read on a format change or modification from one phase (especially the first one) is not worth the time it took to write this response.
> > > Perceptions-yes very hard to change. Habits-no. People
> > change stations instantly when there is an abrupt switch
> in
> > formats. The trick is to capture that switch. If there was
> a
> > recipe for that we would all be out of work!
> >
>
> Perhaps, but the point of all this is: (a), you can't put
> any faith in monthlies, whether extrapolated or from
> Arbitron, and (b), there has not been enough time for Kiss'
> demise to reflect itself in the ratings.
>
> I once worked in a market where a station was off the air
> for a significant portion of the book. Their ratings went
> up. A diary review showed listeners giving them
> quarter-hours during the specific weeks they were off the
> air. Arbitron is not a measure of actual listening, it is a
> measure of percieved listening; it's a popularity contest,
> and will continue to be so until Arbitron comes up with a
> viable method of measuring actual listening..
>
A full book from Arbitron is barely accurate. Trying to get a read on a format change or modification from one phase (especially the first one) is not worth the time it took to write this response.
> > > Perceptions-yes very hard to change. Habits-no. People
> > change stations instantly when there is an abrupt switch
> in
> > formats. The trick is to capture that switch. If there was
> a
> > recipe for that we would all be out of work!
> >
>
> Perhaps, but the point of all this is: (a), you can't put
> any faith in monthlies, whether extrapolated or from
> Arbitron, and (b), there has not been enough time for Kiss'
> demise to reflect itself in the ratings.
>
> I once worked in a market where a station was off the air
> for a significant portion of the book. Their ratings went
> up. A diary review showed listeners giving them
> quarter-hours during the specific weeks they were off the
> air. Arbitron is not a measure of actual listening, it is a
> measure of percieved listening; it's a popularity contest,
> and will continue to be so until Arbitron comes up with a
> viable method of measuring actual listening..
>
> I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS ON THE RATINGS
> FOR TULSA THAT CAME OUT NOV 30, PARTICULARLY IN COUNTRY
> RADIO.
>
> THANKS.
>
As far as country - there is no way KVOO will ever beat K95. The PD for KVOO does not have the experience to beat K95! K95 is superior in many different ways.
> FOR TULSA THAT CAME OUT NOV 30, PARTICULARLY IN COUNTRY
> RADIO.
>
> THANKS.
>
As far as country - there is no way KVOO will ever beat K95. The PD for KVOO does not have the experience to beat K95! K95 is superior in many different ways.
G
GaryThompson
Guest
I think it'll be hard for them to beat K95. I'll give you that. In fact, I'd say that it's HIGHLY unlikely that KVOO will ever beat K95.
But stranger things have happened. Plus, experience has something to do with it. But experience isn't everything. Talent has alot to do with it. I've seen talented young programmers come in and beat the pants off of heritage competition.
>
> As far as country - there is no way KVOO will ever beat K95.
> The PD for KVOO does not have the experience to beat K95!
> K95 is superior in many different ways.
>
But stranger things have happened. Plus, experience has something to do with it. But experience isn't everything. Talent has alot to do with it. I've seen talented young programmers come in and beat the pants off of heritage competition.
>
> As far as country - there is no way KVOO will ever beat K95.
> The PD for KVOO does not have the experience to beat K95!
> K95 is superior in many different ways.
>
I agree with you both. It takes talent to beat a heritage station. Unless KVOO gets very lucky, it is not likely that they will beat KWEN. I only met the PD from KVOO once (I don't remember his name) but he seemed very small market. I was surprised that he had the job. Andy is a smart programmer, but I don't think he gets to run the show. I also don't think that Andy takes much input from the PD. (and I can't blame him since he is 100 times more talented.)
KVOO will always serve a purpose as the #2 country station in the market. With their low overhead, they will do just fine. Keep in mind that the call letters do have heritage of their own. Both stations have good signals so there is no "signal advantage" in this battle.
Back in the mid-1980's, 92K was doing very well. Then KAYI came in with 100,000 watts and squashed them. I think KELI-FM was a 3,000 watt out of BA at the time. The massive signal advantage helped put 92K out of the format. That was a good example of talent with a little signal advantage help. 92K covered Tulsa County, but was marginal in the rest of the metro. That was a classic radio battle.
> I think it'll be hard for them to beat K95. I'll give you
> that. In fact, I'd say that it's HIGHLY unlikely that KVOO
> will ever beat K95.
>
> But stranger things have happened. Plus, experience has
> something to do with it. But experience isn't everything.
> Talent has alot to do with it. I've seen talented young
> programmers come in and beat the pants off of heritage
> competition.
>
>
>
> >
> > As far as country - there is no way KVOO will ever beat
> K95.
> > The PD for KVOO does not have the experience to beat K95!
>
> > K95 is superior in many different ways.
> >
>
KVOO will always serve a purpose as the #2 country station in the market. With their low overhead, they will do just fine. Keep in mind that the call letters do have heritage of their own. Both stations have good signals so there is no "signal advantage" in this battle.
Back in the mid-1980's, 92K was doing very well. Then KAYI came in with 100,000 watts and squashed them. I think KELI-FM was a 3,000 watt out of BA at the time. The massive signal advantage helped put 92K out of the format. That was a good example of talent with a little signal advantage help. 92K covered Tulsa County, but was marginal in the rest of the metro. That was a classic radio battle.
> I think it'll be hard for them to beat K95. I'll give you
> that. In fact, I'd say that it's HIGHLY unlikely that KVOO
> will ever beat K95.
>
> But stranger things have happened. Plus, experience has
> something to do with it. But experience isn't everything.
> Talent has alot to do with it. I've seen talented young
> programmers come in and beat the pants off of heritage
> competition.
>
>
>
> >
> > As far as country - there is no way KVOO will ever beat
> K95.
> > The PD for KVOO does not have the experience to beat K95!
>
> > K95 is superior in many different ways.
> >
>
- Status