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Tulsa ratings

D

DogEStyle

Guest
Any word yet. Interested to see if Spirit made a move. Is the sound making noise?

Who's winning the country fight? Anyone with info please spill the beans!
 
Wow, KFAQ took quite a whack this trend. Maybe it's time to bring back the Bob Wills records. It's good to see KVOO FM doing so well. KRMG was smart to re-establish itself as the news leader. I remember KRMG in the 70's - a killer radio station. KXBL is leaning too much on the Alabama and late 70's 80s stuff. I old fashioned I guess, I like to hear some of the classic standards - Eddy Arnold, Jim Reeves. Would be a better blend of classic country. KOOL still sounds good overall, but I don't get the funny mid-70s stuff. Lazereth's (sp?) "Love Hurts" has got to be one of the worst records ever made of a beautiful song. Hopefully KTSO will figure out what they want to be and start marketing themselves. They sound automated/canned.

Just some thoughts... would like to hear yours.

Anyone have any morning drive numbers?
Thanks.
 
I think it's official - Spirit 102.3 was a really bad idea.

The former KMOD spoiler is now a KXOJ spoiler.

The problem with that is KMOD has over 3X the 12+ shares of KXOJ - so guess where that puts KKCM.

And KMOD is the #1 station in the market again. They win the beauty contest.

The rest of the Cox properties are also off. The slide continues. They have a minor victory in K95 - but it's very minor. KVOO has a major victory. If KVOO keeps increasing at its current rate, it will take K95 next time.

I think it's time for some fresh ideas at 71st & Yale.

Here's one since they've already screwed up Rock 102.3 - Christian CHR.

It couldn't do any worse... And Tulsa would have a station that actually serves the ORU and Rhema crowd.

What a concept!
 
You've got to give Cox their due, though. They gave it a fair shake and put on a pretty good sounding radio station. They did better at it than Clear Channel.The ratings support the conclusion that There's just not enough pie in that flavor to go around in Tulsa. There is only room for one Christian commercial money maker in Tulsa.

I think Cox should probably cut their losses here and spin the format wheel. Both they and KXOJ would probably benefit better from it in the long run. KXOJ would get it's TSL back and some of it's ad dollars.

And Cox would hopefully pick a more viable format that would help them make more money too.

The suits in Tulsa and in Atlanta are discussing what's next. You can bet on it. No disrespect to Cox. They did a fine job. It was as good a job as anyone could do with Christian AC against KXOJ in Tulsa. But the experiment is close to done. And the outcome is clear.
 
BlaineMcDaniel said:
You've got to give Cox their due, though. They gave it a fair shake and put on a pretty good sounding radio station. They did better at it than Clear Channel.The ratings support the conclusion that There's just not enough pie in that flavor to go around in Tulsa. There is only room for one Christian commercial money maker in Tulsa.

I think Cox should probably cut their losses here and spin the format wheel. Both they and KXOJ would probably benefit better from it in the long run. KXOJ would get it's TSL back and some of it's ad dollars.

And Cox would hopefully pick a more viable format that would help them make more money too.

The suits in Tulsa and in Atlanta are discussing what's next. You can bet on it. No disrespect to Cox. They did a fine job. It was as good a job as anyone could do with Christian AC against KXOJ in Tulsa. But the experiment is close to done. And the outcome is clear.
I'm not sure you're 100% correct. I agree that there is just so much room for Christian AC, but there has to be decent potential for a younger skewing Christian format.

Clear Channel's attempt didn't do particularly well because the "format" amounted to one man's favorite music. It wasn't researched. Live 101.5 wasn't hit driven. It played some hits - more by chance than design.

But what Live 101.5 did was impressive - the station pulled huge crowds to its events. What it was never able to do was get Christian owned businesses to support a primarily secular business with their advertising dollars.

The EMF Air1 format doesn't have a decent signal in Tulsa. They have a 100,000 watt stick 50 miles out and a relatively puny translator.

I think Tulsa is one market where you don't really have to worry about EMF raining on your parade. They don't have the signal.

KKCM has something Air1 doesn't in Tulsa - building penetration.

Could they ever get decent advertiser support? Probably not - but I'm sure they've already discovered that with the current format.
 
Of course, one thing nobody here is considering is the possibility that Cox may be content to just sit back and let KKCM languish for several years like KRTQ did. Given the history of KRTQ, I certainly wouldn't put that past the local management.

If I were making the decisions at Cox corporate, the station would be playing Breaking Benjamin and Nirvana tomorrow morning, and whoever had the bright idea for Spirit would be unemployed by noon.
 
Robby, etc...

You are correct. KTSO did have a bad book. KMOD had a great book.

It pains me to read all of the arm-chair quarterbacking that goes on here.

First, KTSO is not going to change format anytime soon. (and neither is KMYZ)

Clearchannel, Cox and the rest are doing fine. If anybody here is so good at what they do, why don't you apply for a job?

My guess (like Robby) you were flushed out of town.

It may be KXOJ's wish, but 102.3 is just getting started. They are not far off from KXOJ 25-54. (maybe a point.)
I read that Cox just purchased a second God station in Jacksonville. Personally I miss Rock 102.3, but Cox knows what they are doing.


Guys...show some respect when posting. Props to KMOD & KWEN on a great book. 92.9, 103.3, 96.5 & 98.5 nice work too.

Not sure how the rest of the top10 looked. Didn't see anything on the CHR battle. What about 101.5?

Chase...keep it up Bro! Kraddick says HI.

Play nice.
 
El Cheapo...I understand what you're saying about Christian CHR. And you raise a good argument. However, I would agree more about Chrisitan CHR if it weren't for the fact that everyone in that demographic who hungers for Christian music is already getting it from their IPOD.

Did you see the study that came out this month that showed that only around 30% of MAINSTREAM CHR users regard terrestrial radio as their source for new music? Guess what was the #1 source for new music in the CHR demo? Yep...IPOD. And if the percentage of terrestrial usership is so low for mainstream users, then the percentage MUST be EVEN lower for Christian users. Especially since Christian CHR is so much less abundantly accessible than mainstream CHR.

I'm in regular contact with Christian music fans of that demographic. And guess what? Those Christian kids only listen to the radio when their parents have it on. The rest of the time, their IPOD buds are feeding them what they want.

At least, that's what they tell me and that's what I observe. EVERYWHERE.

I think our window of opportunity for reaching the CHR demo with terrestrial Christian RADIO is narrowing to a close. Alternative media is quickly picking up the ball and running with it. The IPOD is entrenched in the youth culture as their chief source of new music. And major kilowattage or not...attracting the CHR demo is a different game than it was 10 or even 5 years ago.

This in mind, I doubt a Christian CHR would be much more financially viable than the present situation. Corporate Radio's best bet for dollars right now is to focus on it's strength. And that is the adult demographics.
 
RadioFMWave said:
Robby, etc...

You are correct. KTSO did have a bad book. KMOD had a great book.

It pains me to read all of the arm-chair quarterbacking that goes on here.

First, KTSO is not going to change format anytime soon. (and neither is KMYZ)

Clearchannel, Cox and the rest are doing fine. If anybody here is so good at what they do, why don't you apply for a job?

My guess (like Robby) you were flushed out of town.

It may be KXOJ's wish, but 102.3 is just getting started. They are not far off from KXOJ 25-54. (maybe a point.)
I read that Cox just purchased a second God station in Jacksonville. Personally I miss Rock 102.3, but Cox knows what they are doing.


Guys...show some respect when posting. Props to KMOD & KWEN on a great book. 92.9, 103.3, 96.5 & 98.5 nice work too.

Not sure how the rest of the top10 looked. Didn't see anything on the CHR battle. What about 101.5?

Chase...keep it up Bro! Kraddick says HI.

Play nice.
It's Robbie... Get it straight...

And I wouldn't exactly call being offered an engineering job by Clear Channel that paid over twice what they were paying me to play DJ in Tulsa being "flushed out of town." I went quite willingly.

Why not apply for a programming job in Tulsa? Simple - I'd have to take a significant cut in pay.

Love the town though... If any decent technical positions ever open up, I'll be first to apply.
 
BlaineMcDaniel said:
El Cheapo...I understand what you're saying about Christian CHR. And you raise a good argument. However, I would agree more about Chrisitan CHR if it weren't for the fact that everyone in that demographic who hungers for Christian music is already getting it from their IPOD.

Did you see the study that came out this month that showed that only around 30% of MAINSTREAM CHR users regard terrestrial radio as their source for new music? Guess what was the #1 source for new music in the CHR demo? Yep...IPOD. And if the percentage of terrestrial usership is so low for mainstream users, then the percentage MUST be EVEN lower for Christian users. Especially since Christian CHR is so much less abundantly accessible than mainstream CHR.

I'm in regular contact with Christian music fans of that demographic. And guess what? Those Christian kids only listen to the radio when their parents have it on. The rest of the time, their IPOD buds are feeding them what they want.

At least, that's what they tell me and that's what I observe. EVERYWHERE.

I think our window of opportunity for reaching the CHR demo with terrestrial Christian RADIO is narrowing to a close. Alternative media is quickly picking up the ball and running with it. The IPOD is entrenched in the youth culture as their chief source of new music. And major kilowattage or not...attracting the CHR demo is a different game than it was 10 or even 5 years ago.

This in mind, I doubt a Christian CHR would be much more financially viable than the present situation. Corporate Radio's best bet for dollars right now is to focus on it's strength. And that is the adult demographics.
While I agree with much of what you say, I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel and count radio out.

Radio listenership is down no doubt, and certain demos are certainly more susceptible to erosion by iPods and the like than others - but some of the strongest 12+ numbers you'll find - even today - are on stations with relatively young demographics. In many markets, CHR-Rhythmic and Urban stations lead the pack and typically those stations have a relatively young core.

Sure - you could make the argument that those stations are still viable where youth oriented stations with a more affluent target demo are not because their listeners simply can't afford the pricey entertainment toys, but I'd wager it's much more than that.

For the most part, CHR-Rhythmic and Urban stations are personality driven. They're plugged in to the community. Their listeners know they can personally interact with their station. They have a connection you can't get with a typical vanilla CHR these days. Remember - kids don't make requests to make requests - they make requests so they can hear themselves on the radio.

Unlike rhythmic formats, CHR allowed itself to become a commodity - a music box. The personality element was eliminated by consultants who claimed to know best and whose strategies may have worked in less competitive times but clearly don't work now.

There are still some wildly successful CHRs across the country. WHTZ comes to mind - it's #3 in NYC. KIIS is #3 in LA and the #1 English language music station.

Why?

They do compelling personality radio and they do it well.

When the only personality you have to offer your listeners is "Playing a better mix of the 80s, 90s, today, tomorrow and next Tuesday with less talk and fewer commercials" why wouldn't they take the iPod route?

That's why the Cox music stations seem to be in a downward spiral. KWEN's heritage can only save it for so long. I'm not saying there aren't some talented people in the building there, but they will have to remember how to do something other than read liner cards if they want to improve ratings (and if KWEN doesn't want to be beaten by KVOO.)

But that's also why a well programmed Christian CHR could make it in Tulsa - I'd venture in the Christian community the sense of connection that a real personality oriented station offers would be even more significant. The best proof of that I can offer is the live events that Live 101.5 offered.
 
This thread has made me smile!

I couldn't agree more with Robbie (not Robby). First of all, if anyone got "flushed out of town", I did... along with C.C. Mathews and Steve "Freaky" Fisk! HA HA HA! Ahhh yes, the "memories". Anyway's, I've been very puzzled. KXOJ had a lock on the Chrisitan AC format and I don't believe Tulsa has room for two Chrisitian stations programmed exactly the same. A Christian CHR station and/or "Positive Hit Music Station" is the way to attack. I have found that I have stole more numbers from our mainstream CHR stations in our markets than I have from the Christian station in town. Go figure.

Matt Baldridge
AKA PK "The Preacher's Kid"
WWWD MACON / WJYF VALDOSTA
www.thehook.fm
 
I don't know about you folks, but I think a bullet's in the chamber for the GM at Cox, bad format choices, bad format management, rating and revenue problems, especially after this book.
 
Da Judge said:
I don't know about you folks, but I think a bullet's in the chamber for the GM at Cox, bad format choices, bad format management, rating and revenue problems, especially after this book.


The very nature of this statement shows that you know little-to-nothing about the way Cox manages or treats their people.
 
Agreed...

Cox doesn't make snap decisions. If they flipped he station, they had reason and research that went all the way to the top.

For Cox to blow out a GM over something like this would be completely against the Cox management philosopy. And anyone who would suggest something such probably either has a bad management philosophy themselves...or has worked for companies lacking in management skills.
 
They claim to be hitting budgets, he'll be there for a long while.
 
BehindTheLines said:
Da Judge said:
I don't know about you folks, but I think a bullet's in the chamber for the GM at Cox, bad format choices, bad format management, rating and revenue problems, especially after this book.


The very nature of this statement shows that you know little-to-nothing about the way Cox manages or treats their people.
I don't know about that... I'm not sure Cox is really deserving of the sainthood being bestowed upon them here.

Twice now, I've had brushes with Cox in Tulsa. The first time was after my short-lived APD gig at KHITS that brought me to Tulsa in the first place (had NO idea of how insane Sean Philips really was when I took that gig!)

When I'd had all the Sean I could stand, I was hired part-time by Cox and did a lot of swing work on Mix 96 & K95.5 and imaging for K95.5, Rock 102.3 and KRMG. Over a 3 to 4 month period, I was told constantly that they would find a full-time slot for me that was a "good fit" for my talents. That never materialized, however I was offered the overnight board-op job on KRMG which the OM himself told me I was right to pass on since I would never be happy in that position and it would be an extreme under-utilzation of my talents - and he was right.

"Hold on... Hang in there just a little longer... We'll find something great for you..." Then it never materializes!

From what I hear, the Cox camp was actually offended when I finally made my jump to Clear Channel to do afternoons at Live 101.5 and KISS. Well guys, sorry to offend - but the landlord and grocery store don't accept "hang in there just a little longer" as a form of payment.

I know my situation is not unique. I've heard this exact scenario has played out for a few other people at Cox Tulsa over the years.

To string people along like that is a very poor management style and just plain wrong.
 
Hey Behind the Line...sounds like you know nothing about Cox management,pal or lass. I'll been involved and on the periphiral with them on different occassions. They're sneaky people-managers, full of head games, sloppy tacticions and horrible strategists...in the long run, companies don't win with that way. And that's played out in about every market they're involved with.
 
Da Judge said:
Hey Behind the Line...sounds like you know nothing about Cox management,pal or lass. I'll been involved and on the periphiral with them on different occassions. They're sneaky people-managers, full of head games, sloppy tacticions and horrible strategists...in the long run, companies don't win with that way. And that's played out in about every market they're involved with.
I honestly don't think the Cox fans here know any better. During my short tenure there, I went to lunch often with the senior programming staff. It's a cliché, but it really fits here - "Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back."

In my 13 year career, I've never encountered a group that liked to pat themselves on the back more than the Cox crew in Tulsa. The company mantra was that they hire talented people, pay them well and treat them well and that's why they stick around.

If only their platitudes could generate ratings. I'm sure the slump they're in has the brainwashed masses there totally confused.

One Cox employee to another:

"We hire talented people and pay them well...why do our ratings seem to be constantly sliding?"

"I don't know... But we hire talented people and pay them well... Everything will be OK!"
 
ElCheapo said:
When I'd had all the Sean I could stand, I was hired part-time by Cox and did a lot of swing work on Mix 96 & K95.5 and imaging for K95.5, Rock 102.3 and KRMG. Over a 3 to 4 month period, I was told constantly that they would find a full-time slot for me that was a "good fit" for my talents. That never materialized, however I was offered the overnight board-op job on KRMG which the OM himself told me I was right to pass on since I would never be happy in that position and it would be an extreme under-utilzation of my talents - and he was right.
"Hold on... Hang in there just a little longer... We'll find something great for you..." then it never materializes!
From what I hear, the Cox camp was actually offended when I finally made my jump to Clear Channel to do afternoons at Live 101.5 and KISS. Well guys, sorry to offend - but the landlord and grocery store don't accept "hang in there just a little longer" as a form of payment.
I know my situation is not unique. I've heard this exact scenario has played out for a few other people at Cox Tulsa over the years.
To string people along like that is a very poor management style and just plain wrong.

I know I've been on the receiving end of this kind of treatment before (not at Cox Tulsa, mind you, but at several different companies in several different industries, including radio). I was inside that building briefly when New City had just KRMG and K 95 FM, but it was a very brief stay. However, everyone was nice to me when I was there. Maybe the culture has changed, but, for the most part, it sounds similar if not identical. It's certainly frustrating when a full-time position that seems so close never happens, and, yes, a lot of times, people are offended when you get another job. When I've been in those situations, the people who have been offended were offended because they really thought they were close to getting me what I wanted, and it would have benefitted the team as a whole. They may or may not have been so close, but they believed they were and were doing the best they could. That doesn't make it right and it may not be indicative of the best management skills, but they likely weren't trying to do you wrong.
 
Here is something to consider in chronological order:

1. Cox decides it cannot spoil KMOD with Rock 102.3
2. Cox is losing agency revenue from K95 and Mix to KXOJ (similar demos)
3. Cox gives up on Rock (one book too soon) and decides to take back that money from KXOJ. It may even help KRAV look better since they are often tied in 12+. Heck they even have KXOJ PM driver Dave Weston to start things off on voicetracks and their consultant is based in Atlanta where Cox HQ is located and 3 or 4 of the people in the building actually go to church! What could go wrong?
4. KMOD, with no spoiler, regains the top of the mountain over K95. Oops.
5. With former KXOJ DJ Dave Weston on mornings, Mix slides every book down a little farther his first year (think they will renew his contract?)
6. KVOO is now closer to K95 than ever before without the luster of being #1 on K95.
7. With every property sounding almost identical in liners, imaging and unimaginative content between over-analyzed playlists, all stations are off.
8. Spirit has already peaked. The trends were 2.3 and 2.1 which means the last third of the book was what?, a 0.5? Isn't it an average? ouch.
9. Follow the money and listen to the spots on 102.3, the are all pi spots or bonuses from cluster buys. bigger ouch.
Conclusion: It seems the strategy is backfiring in every way possible.

I do not know how the K95/KVOO battle will end up, but I would not put a dime on KKCM digging in and outlasting heritage KXOJ. KXOJ is not coporate and I am sure they have no interest in spinning the format wheel, which Cox should have realized before hand. I'll bet they (KXOJ) are playing Christian music 30 years from now. They just are not going anywhere. I doubt KKCM will be playing Christian music in 30 months, maybe not even 30 days. ;-)

Brad
 
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