TV Markets that never "QUITE" made it

[JayR]

> Also, ch.40 almost lost its ABC affiliation in 1995, as WFTS
> ch.28 (which got the affiliation in 1994 in the network
> shuffle) covered Sarasota nicely, and would've been unable
> to score another affiliation, as stations from both Tampa
> Bay and Fort Myers over Sarasota really well (except for WB,
> where then-affil WTMV ch.32 (now WMOR) had a weaker tranny,
> and Fort Myers' WSWF ch.10 (now UPN-affil WEVU ch.7) was
> low-powered). A court order (I think) enabled WWSB to stay
> with ABC.

WSWF Channel 10 was a cable-only channel on then MediaOne cable system. WEVU-CA Channel 4 (was W07BR then WEVU-LP Ch.7 then WEVU-CA Ch.7) is a low-power station which carried UPN separate from WSWF when they merged programming. This ended last year when WEVU was picked up by DirecTV and Comcast (which took over both MediaOne and Adelphia in Fort Myers) was displeased with the agreement (they'll never admit to it but we are talking about Comcast...). The cable-only UPN affiliate is now WNFM Channel 8.

 

[RonM]

> Any other examples like this where they got one or two
> network affiliates but then idea of a seperate market died
>
Was Florence, AL ever considered a separate market? I know it's now part of the Huntsville, AL market but up until 5 years ago they had an NBC affiliate for many years (WOWL-TV Ch. 15), which then moved its tower to Minor Hill, TN, changed to UPN and now serves Huntsville, as well. There's still a PBS station (WFIQ Ch. 36) and a full-power independent (Ch. 26) that shows all or primarily infomercials, I believe, but we cannot receive either one of these in Huntsville.

 

[dhett]

> I believe Flagstaff was its own market in the '70s & '80s,
> at around #200, but that changed when Gannett bought KNAZ.
> The market was just southern Coconino County (the part north
> of the Grand Canyon is in the Salt Lake City market) so
> Prescott wasn't included.
>
> The Flagstaff metro area's population is around 100,000
> people - not big enough to support its own full slate of
> network affiliates. If it was its own market again it would
> be around #202. The only market above #200 with all 4 major
> networks is Fairbanks AK, and their CBS is an LPTV.
>
> A hypothetical Flagstaff/Prescott market would be around
> #185. Removing these areas from the Phoenix market (which
> covers about 60% of the state currently) would knock it down
> to around #19. Won't happen.

The immediate Flagstaff metro area doesn't accurately cover its market. A proper Flagstaff TV market should at least include Flagstaff metro plus Verde Valley, about 160k people, ranked about #195, and would more likely be a Flagstaff/Prescott market with about 240k people, or #182 ranking. But you're correct; this will probably never happen. Phoenix broadcasting interests are already firmly entrenched in Prescott, Verde Valley, and Flagstaff.

Those areas are growing fast, esp. the Prescott and Verde Valley areas. I wonder how long before people there decide they want local coverage, and not just scraps from the State of Maricopa?

> KCFG may be licensed as a full-powered station, but they are
> essentially an LPTV (1 kW ERP). They've had a CP for a
> full-power transmitter for years but I don't know if they
> plan to build it. They don't originate any of their own
> programming AFAIK. Neither does KTFL.

KCFG's permit expires 4/2006 and ch. 9 translators in both Camp Verde and Winslow have had to move to other channels, so I think we'll see it. The current 1kW ERP is due to a restriction at their current Mt. Elden transmitter site; that's why they're looking to build on Mormon Mtn. with all of the other full-power stations. At this point, I don't even know if KCFG is broadcasting; I haven't been able to pick up their signal for over a year.

>
> And, technically, KFPH is a satellite of KFPH-CA Ch. 35
> Phoenix. Nothing on this station originates in Flagstaff
> anymore...
>

I suspected that. Phoenix's KTVW and KFPH-CA both operate out of Univision's South Phoenix studios, and I figured they were also operating Flagstaff's KFPH and KTVW-CA out of there too, although I thought that FCC regs required at least a token presence within the grade B signal contour in order to be a full-service or Class A station.

 

[KeithE]

Re: Flagstaff

> The immediate Flagstaff metro area doesn't accurately cover
> its market. A proper Flagstaff TV market should at least
> include Flagstaff metro plus Verde Valley, about 160k
> people, ranked about #195, and would more likely be a
> Flagstaff/Prescott market with about 240k people, or #182
> ranking. But you're correct; this will probably never
> happen. Phoenix broadcasting interests are already firmly
> entrenched in Prescott, Verde Valley, and Flagstaff.
>
> Those areas are growing fast, esp. the Prescott and Verde
> Valley areas. I wonder how long before people there decide
> they want local coverage, and not just scraps from the State
> of Maricopa?

Maybe they'll want their own network affiliates in the future, but I'd be surprised if any of the majors, with the possible exception of small-market-friendly CBS, would even bother with any new affiliate in a 175+ market, even if one were available.

> KCFG's permit expires 4/2006 and ch. 9 translators in both
> Camp Verde and Winslow have had to move to other channels,
> so I think we'll see it. The current 1kW ERP is due to a
> restriction at their current Mt. Elden transmitter site;
> that's why they're looking to build on Mormon Mtn. with all
> of the other full-power stations. At this point, I don't
> even know if KCFG is broadcasting; I haven't been able to
> pick up their signal for over a year.

Their website is still up and running, such as it is. I would assume they're still carrying America One programming.

> I suspected that. Phoenix's KTVW and KFPH-CA both operate
> out of Univision's South Phoenix studios, and I figured they
> were also operating Flagstaff's KFPH and KTVW-CA out of
> there too, although I thought that FCC regs required at
> least a token presence within the grade B signal contour in
> order to be a full-service or Class A station.

There are plenty of full-powered satellite stations that don't originate any of their own programming. KMOH-TV 6 Kingman was one of those when it was owned by Gannett. It was a 100% translator of KPNX Phoenix.

 

[rugrats1]

Re: Flagstaff

> There are plenty of full-powered satellite stations that
> don't originate any of their own programming. KMOH-TV 6
> Kingman was one of those when it was owned by Gannett. It
> was a 100% translator of KPNX Phoenix.
>
Though under its previous owner (the same owners as KNAZ, I think (which was also later acquired by Gannett)), it was a WB affiliate -- WB ads in TV Guide also included a logo for KMOH, though that channel was never listed or even mentioned.

 

[Mark_Ericson]

WJAL

> Washington County, MD, home to Hagerstown, has since been
> rolled into the Washington DC DMA (I think). WJAL-TV channel
> 68 is licensed to Hagerstown but has a Chambersburg, PA
> mailing address. I think they were supposed to be a WB
> affiliate at one time.

The question becomes, was WJAL supposed to be WB for Hagerstown or WB for Harrisburg? Their analog transmitter is located on a mountain quite a distance north of Hagerstown, and the signal is receivable with a watchman TV all the way up to Carlisle if not further. I wouldn't know, but I suspect WJAL was originally WB in an attempt to cover Harrisburg.

I'm especially curious since Harrisburg got NBC from WGAL in Lancaster, which is just one letter different. Though that may just be a coincidence.

- Trip<P ID="signature">______________
Visit my website, www.rabbitears.info! It's eventually going to be your one resource for television info! Digital television, histories, and technical information for the entire USA from one source!</P>

 

[KeithE]

Re: Kingman

> > There are plenty of full-powered satellite stations that
> > don't originate any of their own programming. KMOH-TV 6
> > Kingman was one of those when it was owned by Gannett. It
> > was a 100% translator of KPNX Phoenix.
> >
> Though under its previous owner (the same owners as KNAZ, I
> think (which was also later acquired by Gannett)), it was a
> WB affiliate -- WB ads in TV Guide also included a logo for
> KMOH, though that channel was never listed or even
> mentioned.

They carried WB programming but, IIRC, the rest of their schedule was mostly infomercials. I don't think they ever carried local programming during their entire existence. They now rebroadcast an LA Spanish-language station and want to be in Phoenix and Las Vegas with translators.

Kingman isn't big enough to support its own locally-originated TV station.

 

[KML0224]

Re: WJAL

If you go by Chambersburg for their mailing address, you could be on the fringe of both the Harrisburg/Lancaster market and the Johnstown/Altoona market. As far as WB goes, I think Harrisburg has a low-power station on channel 65 which retransmits channel 17 (WB) from Philadelphia. WGCB-TV channel 49 of Red Lion, PA is a family oriented/religious station. Too bad they won't switch to a WB affiliation.

 

[fredflintstone]

Blame the parents

VHF Radio allocations were set up in the 40's; UHF in the early 50's. The FCC set up channel allocations around cities of licenses. Many cities did not have three network affiliates until the late 50's or early 60's; and no "educational" (now public) TV stations until the mid to late 60's. The 40's FCC really did not forsee the idea of TV markets or the idea of one-station-one-network.

TV markets, as we know them, were established by AC Nielsen in the 60's to reflect how most homes watch TV, most of the time (as a guide to advertisers buying local TV time). This was before most homes had cable. In fringe areas, people had big roof antennas and often could watch TV from more than one city. Nielsen counted noses in each county. In Atlantic County, NJ Philly stations got the majority of viewership and was assigned to the Philly market. Ocean County people tended to watch New York TV a bit more, and they got assigned to New York. More antennas in Mercer County, NJ (Trenton) were aimed at Philly and Trenton is still part of the Philly TV market. Cecil County, MD tended to watch more Baltimore TV (although Philly and Lancaster also come in well) and they got put in the Baltimore market. (Arbitron using a similar process assigned Cecil County to the Wilmington radio market, rather than Baltimore.) Kent County, DE (Dover) gets both Philly and Baltimore TV but Philly edged out Baltimore.

A big part of the problem for smaller towns with early TV allocations was people tended to watch big city TV. In smaller towns, one station was often affiliated with all three networks. Anybody who wanted to watch something other than what the local station carried, watched big city TV. And there was a lot more local TV programming then and local shows on big city TV were noticeably better.

Now market definitions are set in stone and most people get TV via cable or satellite. FCC rules now use Nielsen market defintions. Early cable systems (then called CATV - community antenna television) used to import distant signals so subscribers could watch TV from two or three big cities. Now, the county in which you live determines which TV stations cable (or satellite) is allowed to carry.

So, if you want to blame someone, blame your parents or grandparents in Wilmington or Atlantic City who put an antenna on the roof in the 50's so they could watch Philly TV and see Ernie Kovacs.

 

[Mark_Ericson]

Re: WJAL

> If you go by Chambersburg for their mailing address, you
> could be on the fringe of both the Harrisburg/Lancaster
> market and the Johnstown/Altoona market. As far as WB goes,
> I think Harrisburg has a low-power station on channel 65
> which retransmits channel 17 (WB) from Philadelphia. WGCB-TV
> channel 49 of Red Lion, PA is a family oriented/religious
> station. Too bad they won't switch to a WB affiliation.

I didn't see W65AV in my last couple of trips through there, and I don't think they're on the FCC site anymore. Might have gone dark.

IIRC, WB programming is made available on Tribune-owned Fox 43 WPMT.

I know what the situation is now, but my question is, was WJAL launched in an attempt to serve Harrisburg rather than Hagerstown? Their signal seems to indicate that.

- Trip<P ID="signature">______________
Visit my website, www.rabbitears.info! It's eventually going to be your one resource for television info! Digital television, histories, and technical information for the entire USA from one source!</P>

 

[OldAkronite]

Akron/Canton, OH

> I don't know if any of these fit but I'm thinking "St
> Joseph, MO." Also didn't AKron have it's own network
> affiliate even though it was covered by Cleveland.

Basically, Akron's too close to Cleveland, and is covered quite easily by the Cleveland stations. I'm in Akron, and the towers for the local TV stations (in suburban Parma, south of Cleveland) are just 20 miles away from where I sit.

WAKC/23 (former ABC) is now PAX Cleveland market O&O WVPX/23, for now, at least, run out of WKYC/3 (NBC)'s facility in downtown Cleveland. They also have an downtown Akron news bureau which doubles as WKYC's Akron/Canton bureau, and home for Akron-Canton-targeted "PAX 23 News" at 6:30 and 10. In a month or two, the Gannett LMA for WVPX will expire, and PAX's on shaky ground, anyway...no one's said yet how that affects the PAX 23 operation here.

But as far as a separate market, there'd certainly be enough stations in number:

17/Canton
23/Akron
49/Akron
55/Akron
67/Canton

17's a TBN O&O (religious), 23's Cleveland's PAX, 49 is PBS aimed at Akron/Canton, 55 is Cleveland's WB affiliate, and 67 is now the full market's Shop at Home O&O. This doesn't count LPTV WAOH/29 Akron (simulcast on W35AX/Cleveland, up in the Parma antenna farm, run by the owners of talk WNIR[FM]/AAR talk WJMP[AM] Kent-Akron).

The problem isn't the number, it's the proximity of the Cleveland market stations to Akron/Canton. If it were, say, 40 or 50 miles further south, the Akron/Canton area would be a market of its own. It'd be somewhat larger than nearby Youngstown, which is just far enough away from Cleveland and Pittsburgh to be its own five station market. (Big 3 nets, FOX on an LPTV combo and PBS out of Salem, licensed to Alliance, simulcast of Akron's 49.)

-OA

 

[TimL]

To Old AkroniteRE:Akron-Canton, Ohio)

Further down in this thread, I wrote of my idea for an "Akron-Canton" market from the 1950's if things hadnt turned out as they did.


http://www.radio-info.com/mods/board?Post=459136&Board=tv-usa


My thought was that if even two or three stations in this list could have made it, with separate news operations..The Dynamic of the market would have been much different..But being so close to Cleveland, It wasnt going to happen.

Tim Lones

 

[KML0224]

New Haven separate from Hartford? Ever?

Sometimes I wonder if New Haven, CT was ever going to be a separate market from Hartford? Connecticut's first TV station signed on in New Haven back in 1948 (WNHC-TV channel 6, now WTNH-TV [ABC] channel 8). Today, the Elm City has ABC, UPN and PBS (Conecticut Public Television) licensed to it. The first two ID as New Haven/Hartford. The market today makes up Connecticut minus Fairfield County. Hartford and New Haven counties are the core or "Metro" counties.

Technically, Springfield, MA is closer to Hartford than New Haven is. They rely on Hartford for FOX and CBS (our CBS affiliate provides a secondary service to them and calls it "CBS 3", even though it's low-power and it's on channel 67). My guess is that they wanted to be their own TV market since they want to know what's happening in that big city about 90 miles to their east (Boston).

 

[RustyCarr]

> > Any other examples like this where they got one or two
> > network affiliates but then idea of a seperate market died
>
> >
> Was Florence, AL ever considered a separate market? I know
> it's now part of the Huntsville, AL market but up until 5
> years ago they had an NBC affiliate for many years (WOWL-TV
> Ch. 15), which then moved its tower to Minor Hill, TN,
> changed to UPN and now serves Huntsville, as well. There's
> still a PBS station (WFIQ Ch. 36) and a full-power
> independent (Ch. 26) that shows all or primarily
> infomercials, I believe, but we cannot receive either one of
> these in Huntsville.
>
I was wondering the same thing. I really don't consider WYLE a full-power though, since the signal cannot be picked up more than 20 miles from Sheffield.

 

[bpatrick]

Re: TV Markets that never \

WBKO/13 Bowling Green, KY, started as an independent,
but became an ABC affiliate in the '60s because Nashville's
ABC affiliate at the time was on Channel 8 (WSIX) and not
as receivable as Channels 4 (NBC) and 5 (CBS). When the
channel swap of 2 (PBS) and 8 (ABC) took place in Music
City, ABC still had a problem. Although now on 2, the station
was/is short-spaced to WSB Atlanta and still not very receivable
in Bowling Green.

Now as to why WNKY became an NBC affiliate, I can't answer,
if WSMV is receivable in Bowling Green (WTVF still serves as
CBS for both Nashville and Bowling Green, although I think
WLKY is on cable there as well).

As to Florence, AL, I think it may have been a separate market
prior to the '80s, but even as part of Huntsville, WOWL always
went its own way as an NBC affiliate and did not act as a
satellite for either WAAY or WAFF.

 

[wd45]

Re: TV Markets that never \

Can anyone give any details about WIPB-TV/49 in Muncie, IN? I've been told that in the early 50's, they were a CBS affiliate (under the call letters of WLBC-TV) until WISH-TV in Indianapolis signed on, then was independent until Ball State took over ownership and made it a PBS station.

 

[bk77]

Re: WJAL

> Washington County, MD, home to Hagerstown, has since been
> rolled into the Washington DC DMA (I think). WJAL-TV channel
> 68 is licensed to Hagerstown but has a Chambersburg, PA
> mailing address. I think they were supposed to be a WB
> affiliate at one time.

The question becomes, was WJAL supposed to be WB for Hagerstown or WB for Harrisburg? Their analog transmitter is located on a mountain quite a distance north of Hagerstown, and the signal is receivable with a watchman TV all the way up to Carlisle if not further. I wouldn't know, but I suspect WJAL was originally WB in an attempt to cover Harrisburg.

I'm especially curious since Harrisburg got NBC from WGAL in Lancaster, which is just one letter different. Though that may just be a coincidence.

- Trip<P ID="signature">______________
Visit my website, www.rabbitears.info! It's eventually going to be your one resource for television info! Digital television, histories, and technical information for the entire USA from one source!</P>

Considering that Franklin County/Chambersburg, PA for years was in the Washington DMA ( today they are in Harrisburg's and it was only recently that happened ), I really don't believe WJAL had any intentions to do anything for Harrisburg. Actually during their WB days, they BEGGED to be put on cable systems in Virginia and West Virginia and in some cases they succeeded. If WJAL really wanted to serve Harrisburg/York/Lancaster why would they even bother with being on cable in Virginia? Come to think of it I dont think WJAL is on any cable system north of Chambersburg.

In Winchester,VA for example the deal with WJAL was in exchange to be on cable there, WJAL will provide exclusive coverage of their local Apple Blossom Festival since WYVN had already gone dark, WHAG refused and WHSV under their then-ownership didn't have the money. With that said, it would be interesting to see how long WJAL remains on cable in Virginia in the first place since Gray's new ABC affiliate in Winchester ( which is set to debut within a month ) just recently signed a deal to do Apple Blossom and WJAL wont be covering the event any longer. Actually last year WJAL for the first time since their WB days did not cover the event instead turning over things to Gray's WHSV-TV in Harrisonburg ( which heavily promoted their new Winchester outlet during their coverage ).

My guess is that WJAL will be removed from cable there quite soon and chances are it won't be missed.

The calls letters yes they are similar to WGAL and I would imagine they could make WJAL change their calls but WJAL isn't much of a station anyway. WJAL does nothing for the viewers in Pennsylvania and its dittos with Maryland as well. Interesting WJAL is making some effort to get the West Virginia viewers though between being on Dish Network and airing a West Virginia state wide newscast plus West Virginia University sports porgrams.

BTW..WJAL is located in a very small house just off of Interstate 81 a few exits from the Maryland state-line. Other than a tiny sign out front it really is easy to miss. And most of the times I drove by the building is totally dark.

 

[KeithE4]

Re: TV Markets that never \

Can anyone give any details about WIPB-TV/49 in Muncie, IN? I've been told that in the early 50's, they were a CBS affiliate (under the call letters of WLBC-TV) until WISH-TV in Indianapolis signed on, then was independent until Ball State took over ownership and made it a PBS station.

WLBC-TV signed on around 1953 - about a year before WISH-TV. They carried all 3 networks (CBS primary) until the early '60s when they dropped CBS and became NBC primary and ABC secondary.

They were never an independent station AFAIK. The only indie north of Indianapolis was the old WTAF-TV 31 Marion, which existed between 1962 and '69. Some here have said that WTAF was a semi-satellite of WTTV, but I don't remember it being so and the station wasn't owned by Sarkes Tarzian.

WLBC didn't really need to exist after 1960 or so since the Indy stations put good signals into Muncie. It was sold to Ball State University in late '71 and became WIPB, which it is to this day.

 

[azumanga]

Re: TV Markets that never \

Some here have said that WTAF was a semi-satellite of WTTV, but I don't remember it being so and the station wasn't owned by Sarkes Tarzian.

The old Central Indiana TV Guides that I have from the mid-1960s had alot of channel 31's programming simulcasting channel 4's -- in Black and White only. Apparently. WTAF's owners made special arrangements with WTTV to provide some programming.

If anyone wishes, I'll bring an issue from storage 9I have them stashed away for a pending move) and give you an example. (Though THAT will probably be more appropriate for the retro board than this thread.)

 

[Garrett]

Re: TV Markets that never \

How about Worcestor MA? I remember they only had Channel 27 in the 80s and there was controversy because the station put their news on at 3pm, and then go to subscription service. I imagine that anyone watching TV there without some kind of cable subscription is in for an adventure.

Same with Cape Cod MA. If you don't have cable or an outdoor amplified antenna, you can not really watch TV in Cape Cod (unless you really like watching Channel 6 or 7). I have always felt that these places should have their own market. Thoughts?