TV Markets that should be eliminated...

[herbied28205]

Further down this board, there are listings of "could have been markets"

This list is the ones that should be eliminated:

Dothan AL (combined with Panama City, 80 mi away)
Lafayette IN (rolled into Indy, 60 mi away)
Lima OH (rolled into Toledo, 60 mi away)
Albany GA (combined with Columbus, 70 mi away)
Harrisonville VA (combined with Charlottesville, 70 mi away)
Wilimington NC (combined with Myrtle Beach-Florence, 80 mi away)---parts of current service from Raleigh, 150 mi away
Casper-Riverton WY (if you have Phoenix covering most of Arizona, you can do the entire state except SW as one market)<P ID="signature">______________
I am not an employee of Jefferson-Pilot, Clear Channel, Infinity, Radio One, TimeWarner, Cox, Belo, Bahakel Communications, Capital Broadcasting, or Knight-Ridder</P>

 

[KeithE]

> Further down this board, there are listings of "could have
> been markets"
>
> This list is the ones that should be eliminated:
>
> Dothan AL (combined with Panama City, 80 mi away)
Dothan has 3 of its own network affiliates. Besides, 80 miles is too much separation.

> Lafayette IN (rolled into Indy, 60 mi away)
Agree there since their only station is controlled from (but not a satellite of) WISH-TV.

> Lima OH (rolled into Toledo, 60 mi away)
Lima is 80 miles from Toledo and has 3 major-network affiliates (lacks ABC). It won't be eliminated.

> Albany GA (combined with Columbus, 70 mi away)
Albany & Columbus are 90 miles apart.

> Harrisonville VA (combined with Charlottesville, 70 mi away)
Isn't there a terrain issue as to why they are separate?

> Wilimington NC (combined with Myrtle Beach-Florence, 80 mi
> away)---parts of current service from Raleigh, 150 mi away
Wilmington has all 4 majors (CBS is an LPTV). It won't be eliminated.

> Casper-Riverton WY (if you have Phoenix covering most of
> Arizona, you can do the entire state except SW as one market)
Don't forget Salt Lake City, which is the entire state of Utah plus parts of Wyoming and Nevada. This one might be a possibility.

Others:
Zanesville OH (combine with Columbus, 55 miles away). Only has NBC.

Mankato MN (combine with Mason City/Rochester/Austin with its KEYC serving the NE end of the market not covered by KIMT for CBS).

Wheeling/Steubenville (combine with Pittsburgh with its stations flipping to Fox and WB?). Very unlikely but just a thought.

The chances of any of this happening? None, unless the major networks pull a "WB" and drop its affiliates in markets #100 & up. Not for a while.

 

[ShawnHill]

> Further down this board, there are listings of "could have
> been markets"
>
> This list is the ones that should be eliminated:
>
> Dothan AL (combined with Panama City, 80 mi away)
> Lafayette IN (rolled into Indy, 60 mi away)
> Lima OH (rolled into Toledo, 60 mi away)
> Albany GA (combined with Columbus, 70 mi away)
> Harrisonville VA (combined with Charlottesville, 70 mi away)
>
> Wilimington NC (combined with Myrtle Beach-Florence, 80 mi
> away)---parts of current service from Raleigh, 150 mi away
> Casper-Riverton WY (if you have Phoenix covering most of
> Arizona, you can do the entire state except SW as one
> market)
>
I have one...you can combine the Rockford, IL-Madison, WI markets. Madison and Rockford are less than 60 miles from each other, and with a good outdoor antenna, you can pick up the other market's stations (at least that's what happened when I lived in Rockford in the 1980s). Also, the two markets have overlapping coverage, particularly in Rock County, Wisconsin (the county that sits between Dane [Madison] and Winnebago [Rockford] counties). Although Rock County is technically in the Madison DMA, Rockford TV is significantally (sp?) viewed there.

 

[e-dawg]

Re:Try Bend OR, St. Joseph MO, Twin Falls ID.

Bend OR TV Market should be eliminated since most of the TV networks in Bend rely on Portland TV and 2 Eugene's Channel. THE FOX network KFXO-LP is owned by their sister channel KPTV and most of the promos and news comes from KPTV.

St Joseph MO, all of the KC TV stations execpt for KSMO WB 62 severe the tiny market.

Twin Falls ID, it served by Boise TV market.

 

[ccmfan]

> > Further down this board, there are listings of "could have
>
> > been markets"
> >
> > This list is the ones that should be eliminated:
> >
> > Dothan AL (combined with Panama City, 80 mi away)
> Dothan has 3 of its own network affiliates. Besides, 80
> miles is too much separation.
>
> > Lafayette IN (rolled into Indy, 60 mi away)
> Agree there since their only station is controlled from (but
> not a satellite of) WISH-TV.
>
> > Lima OH (rolled into Toledo, 60 mi away)
> Lima is 80 miles from Toledo and has 3 major-network
> affiliates (lacks ABC). It won't be eliminated.
>
> > Albany GA (combined with Columbus, 70 mi away)
> Albany & Columbus are 90 miles apart.
>
> > Harrisonville VA (combined with Charlottesville, 70 mi
> away)
> Isn't there a terrain issue as to why they are separate?
>
> > Wilimington NC (combined with Myrtle Beach-Florence, 80 mi
>
> > away)---parts of current service from Raleigh, 150 mi away
>
> Wilmington has all 4 majors (CBS is an LPTV). It won't be
> eliminated.
>
> > Casper-Riverton WY (if you have Phoenix covering most of
> > Arizona, you can do the entire state except SW as one
> market)
> Don't forget Salt Lake City, which is the entire state of
> Utah plus parts of Wyoming and Nevada. This one might be a
> possibility.
>
> Others:
> Zanesville OH (combine with Columbus, 55 miles away). Only
> has NBC.
>
> Mankato MN (combine with Mason City/Rochester/Austin with
> its KEYC serving the NE end of the market not covered by
> KIMT for CBS).
>
> Wheeling/Steubenville (combine with Pittsburgh with its
> stations flipping to Fox and WB?). Very unlikely but just a
> thought.
>
> The chances of any of this happening? None, unless the
> major networks pull a "WB" and drop its affiliates in
> markets #100 & up. Not for a while.
>

Jackson, TN would probably fit in that category, since they're about 70 miles away from Memphis and it only has ABC and UPN. It also has a PBS station, but I assume that doesn't count.

 

[genXdxerLR]

Re:Try Bend OR, St. Joseph MO, Twin Falls ID.

Here is another one: Jonesboro, Arkansas.

It has only one commercial *network* outlet: KAIT ABC ch 8 (dt 9). The other two stations are KETJ (AETN relayer), and KVTJ (KVTN relayer). From what I understand, its served on cable by the Memphis area stations anyway. All this does is deny those with dishes from getting local Memphis channels. The market is shoehorned by Little Rock to the SW, Springfield, MO to the West, Memphis to the East and South, and the Cape to the North.


> Bend OR TV Market should be eliminated since most of the TV
> networks in Bend rely on Portland TV and 2 Eugene's Channel.
> THE FOX network KFXO-LP is owned by their sister channel
> KPTV and most of the promos and news comes from KPTV.
>
> St Joseph MO, all of the KC TV stations execpt for KSMO WB
> 62 severe the tiny market.
>
> Twin Falls ID, it served by Boise TV market.
>

 

[Garrett]

TV signals don't go as far as radio signals do. People who live 80 to 50 miles away from a TV station usually can not get that station, unless they have a powerful outdoor antenna.
I lived in Boston, only 50 miles from Providence R.I. and you could barely get stations from Providence in Back Bay.

Sorry, but based on the distances you've posted, your list just doesn't make sense.

> Further down this board, there are listings of "could have
> been markets"
>
> This list is the ones that should be eliminated:
>
> Dothan AL (combined with Panama City, 80 mi away)
> Lafayette IN (rolled into Indy, 60 mi away)
> Lima OH (rolled into Toledo, 60 mi away)
> Albany GA (combined with Columbus, 70 mi away)
> Harrisonville VA (combined with Charlottesville, 70 mi away)
>
> Wilimington NC (combined with Myrtle Beach-Florence, 80 mi
> away)---parts of current service from Raleigh, 150 mi away
> Casper-Riverton WY (if you have Phoenix covering most of
> Arizona, you can do the entire state except SW as one
> market)
>

 

[Mark_Ericson]

> > Harrisonville VA (combined with Charlottesville, 70 mi
> away)
> Isn't there a terrain issue as to why they are separate?

Yes, but I, for one, think it would make sense. As it is, the market is already very... unusual to say the least. Harrisonburg gets ABC from WHSV-3 (whose tower is actually located in the DC market), NBC from translators for WVIR in Charlottesville (28 and 31) and CBS (18) and Fox (46) on repeaters that bring in stations from DC. Charlottesville has CBS19 (owned by the same folks that own WHSV) and NBC29, plus WVAW-LP 16 which used to rebroadcast WHSV in as W64AO or something like that (now separate ABC). Soon they'll be getting Fox from WCAV/WVAW in the form of WAHU-LP on 27. As for PBS, Charlottesville has WHTJ which rebroadcasts WCVE in Richmond as well as W50CM which brings in WVPT from Staunton/Harrisonburg. I think it would make sense to combine the two markets since they already have some overlap.

3/16 ABC
19/18/others CBS
29/28/31/others NBC
27/46/others FOX
41 PBS (WHTJ)
51/50/58/42/38 PBS (WVPT)

Plus there's the WAZT network of stations that's up for sale; they're currently religious but who knows what could happen with them. They could pick up a station in Charlottesville and maybe go UPN or something.

> Wheeling/Steubenville (combine with Pittsburgh with its
> stations flipping to Fox and WB?). Very unlikely but just a
> thought.

Cox owns WPXI-11 in Pittsburgh and WTOV-9 in Steubenville. They'd have to sell WTOV and I doubt they'd want to do that.

- Trip<P ID="signature">______________
Visit my website, www.rabbitears.info! It's eventually going to be your one resource for television info! Digital television, histories, and technical information for the entire USA from one source!</P>

 

[Tom_Desmond]

The WB in small markets

> The chances of any of this happening? None, unless the
> major networks pull a "WB" and drop its affiliates in
> markets #100 & up. Not for a while.

FYI, the WB has been adding sub-100 market affiliates over the past year or so. The latest additions are in Alexandria, LA (KBCA) and Helena, MT (KMTF). With the addition of these two stations, the WB will have eight affiliates in markets below the top 100.

Two interesting notes on this:
1. The sub-100 market stations are carrying the same feed as is being used for the cable-only WB affiliates in most small cities.
2. The Montana station is actually on a VHF channel, where the WB will be taking over from Pax at the end of this month.

 

[OldAkronite]

In This Region...

> > Lima OH (rolled into Toledo, 60 mi away)
> Lima is 80 miles from Toledo and has 3 major-network
> affiliates (lacks ABC). It won't be eliminated.

Lima's roughly the same distance from Dayton, and both Toledo and Dayton network affiliates show up on the cable system there, not to mention Columbus! In fact, WBNS/10 Columbus is the CBS affiliate on the cable system in Lima. For whatever reason, they haven't added the new local WLMO-LP, the CBS affiliate owned by the people who own FOX 25 and the UPN affiliate, both LPTVers. And both of those stations ARE on the local cable system, along with dominant NBC full-power station WLIO/35.

Still, despite the cable situation, a four network market isn't going anywhere.

> Zanesville OH (combine with Columbus, 55 miles away). Only
> has NBC.

Would have to agree there. All the other network affiliates from Columbus are significantly viewed there, and I think even WCMH/4 (NBC O&O in Columbus) is carried on cable there, below WHIZ.

> Wheeling/Steubenville (combine with Pittsburgh with its
> stations flipping to Fox and WB?). Very unlikely but just a
> thought.

I've kicked this around from time to time. Although it's a very economically depressed market, WTOV and WTRF aren't going away any time soon, and the market won't be folded into Pittsburgh. Besides, if you flip 7 and 9 to WB and move them into Pgh sa FOX and WB, what happens to incumbent FOX 53 and WB 22?

-OA

 

[RockManAC]

> I have one...you can combine the Rockford, IL-Madison, WI
> markets. Madison and Rockford are less than 60 miles from
> each other, and with a good outdoor antenna, you can pick up
> the other market's stations (at least that's what happened
> when I lived in Rockford in the 1980s). Also, the two
> markets have overlapping coverage, particularly in Rock
> County, Wisconsin (the county that sits between Dane
> [Madison] and Winnebago [Rockford] counties). Although Rock
> County is technically in the Madison DMA, Rockford TV is
> significantally (sp?) viewed there.
>

You know.. It would make sense.. Of course, you'd run into a situation where same owners couldn't keep multiple stations.. QNI owns WREX (Rfd) and WKOW (Mad), Gray owns WIFR (Rfd) and WMTV (Mad). Besides the fact that all of them are different networks... WREX & WMTV are NBC, WKOW is ABC and WIFR is CBS.

Of course Nextstar/Mission (Rfd) and Sinclair, Acme and whoever owns WISC would be in pretty good water, i'd think.

-A

PS You don't need an outdoor antenna for alot of the stations... I can get WKOW and the WB from up there w/ an indoor antenna.... Hell at the station we had a TV with a coat hanger shoved in the antenna jack and we got a bunch of Madison stations on it.

<P ID="signature">______________

</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by RockManAC on 06/15/05 06:18 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[bpatrick]

> > > Further down this board, there are listings of "could
> have
> >
> > > been markets"
> > >
> > > This list is the ones that should be eliminated:
> > >
> > > Dothan AL (combined with Panama City, 80 mi away)
> > Dothan has 3 of its own network affiliates. Besides, 80
> > miles is too much separation.
> >
> > > Lafayette IN (rolled into Indy, 60 mi away)
> > Agree there since their only station is controlled from
> (but
> > not a satellite of) WISH-TV.
> >
> > > Lima OH (rolled into Toledo, 60 mi away)
> > Lima is 80 miles from Toledo and has 3 major-network
> > affiliates (lacks ABC). It won't be eliminated.
> >
> > > Albany GA (combined with Columbus, 70 mi away)

> Albany & Columbus are 90 miles apart.
> >
> > > Harrisonville VA (combined with Charlottesville, 70 mi
> > away)
> > Isn't there a terrain issue as to why they are separate?
> >
> > > Wilimington NC (combined with Myrtle Beach-Florence, 80
> mi
> >
> > > away)---parts of current service from Raleigh, 150 mi
> away
> >
> > Wilmington has all 4 majors (CBS is an LPTV). It won't be
>
> > eliminated.
> >
> > > Casper-Riverton WY (if you have Phoenix covering most of
>
> > > Arizona, you can do the entire state except SW as one
> > market)
> > Don't forget Salt Lake City, which is the entire state of
> > Utah plus parts of Wyoming and Nevada. This one might be
> a
> > possibility.
> >
> > Others:
> > Zanesville OH (combine with Columbus, 55 miles away).
> Only
> > has NBC.
> >
> > Mankato MN (combine with Mason City/Rochester/Austin with
> > its KEYC serving the NE end of the market not covered by
> > KIMT for CBS).
> >
> > Wheeling/Steubenville (combine with Pittsburgh with its
> > stations flipping to Fox and WB?). Very unlikely but just
> a
> > thought.
> >
> > The chances of any of this happening? None, unless the
> > major networks pull a "WB" and drop its affiliates in
> > markets #100 & up. Not for a while.
> >
>
> Jackson, TN would probably fit in that category, since
> they're about 70 miles away from Memphis and it only has ABC
> and UPN. It also has a PBS station, but I assume that
> doesn't count.
>
Lafayette and Lake Charles, LA (about 72 miles). Lafayette
has ABC (Ch. 3), CBS (Ch. 10), and Fox (Ch. 15); Lake Charles
has NBC (Ch. 7) and Fox (Ch. 29); the last could change to
UPN or the WB.

As for Florence/Wilmington, I keep hearing that the owners of
WIS/10 Columbia, SC, are going to put an NBC affiliate on the
air in Myrtle Beach. If and when that happens, Florence/Myrtle
Beach will have CBS (Ch. 13), ABC (Ch. 15), UPN (Ch. 21), NBC
(Ch. 32), and Fox (Ch. 43). The NBC stations in Columbia and
Wilmington will no doubt be removed from the local cable systems.
So Florence and Wilmington won't need to be combined.

 

[ShawnHill]

> You know.. It would make sense.. Of course, you'd run into a
> situation where same owners couldn't keep multiple
> stations.. QNI owns WREX (Rfd) and WKOW (Mad), Gray owns
> WIFR (Rfd) and WMTV (Mad). Besides the fact that all of
> them are different networks... WREX & WMTV are NBC, WKOW is
> ABC and WIFR is CBS.
>
> Of course Nextstar/Mission (Rfd) and Sinclair, Acme and
> whoever owns WISC would be in pretty good water, i'd think.
>
> -A
>
> PS You don't need an outdoor antenna for alot of the
> stations... I can get WKOW and the WB from up there w/ an
> indoor antenna.... Hell at the station we had a TV with a
> coat hanger shoved in the antenna jack and we got a bunch of
> Madison stations on it.
>
Right on, AC. Yeah, I thought about QNI and Gray owning those stations. It was cool as a kid watching the out of town stations. In my grandmother's apartment building, we got WISC and WGN (albeit static-filled), and Channel 3 came in the best. However, a friend of hers lived on a different floor, and got the Chicago UHFs (WFLD, WPWR, and WGBO), and the signals was crystal-clear. I really wanted to see WFLD, because they had of my favorite shows that none of the Rockford stations could carry (plus Rockford didn't get Fox until '89). My grandmother is a big Young & The Restless fan, and it was convienent for her to watch it on WISC an half-hour eariler than on WIFR. Good thing about WIFR is that they carry the entire CBS schedule, while WISC didn't always.

About merging the markets together, it would make a lot of sense...if you combined the size of the two markets (Madison is 85th, Rockford is 134th), it would be the 56th largest in the country (545,180 homes), putting between Albany, NY and Dayton.

 

[RockManAC]

> About merging the markets together, it would make a lot of
> sense...if you combined the size of the two markets (Madison
> is 85th, Rockford is 134th), it would be the 56th largest in
> the country (545,180 homes), putting between Albany, NY and
> Dayton.
>

Wow.. 56?

-A<P ID="signature">______________

</P>

 

[Mark_Ericson]

Re: The WB in small markets

> > The chances of any of this happening? None, unless the
> > major networks pull a "WB" and drop its affiliates in
> > markets #100 & up. Not for a while.
>
> FYI, the WB has been adding sub-100 market affiliates over
> the past year or so. The latest additions are in
> Alexandria, LA (KBCA) and Helena, MT (KMTF). With the
> addition of these two stations, the WB will have eight
> affiliates in markets below the top 100.
>
> Two interesting notes on this:
> 1. The sub-100 market stations are carrying the same feed
> as is being used for the cable-only WB affiliates in most
> small cities.
> 2. The Montana station is actually on a VHF channel, where
> the WB will be taking over from Pax at the end of this
> month.

I hadn't heard about these... where'd you hear this?

Also, could you provide a list of all of them? I know KREN-27 in Reno is one along with WFXU-TV/WTLF-DT Live Oak/Tallahassee, but beyond that I can't remember the rest.

- Trip<P ID="signature">______________
Visit my website, www.rabbitears.info! It's eventually going to be your one resource for television info! Digital television, histories, and technical information for the entire USA from one source!</P>

 

[EnbyCee]

> PS You don't need an outdoor antenna for alot of the
> stations... I can get WKOW and the WB from up there w/ an
> indoor antenna.... Hell at the station we had a TV with a
> coat hanger shoved in the antenna jack and we got a bunch of
> Madison stations on it.

Hell, I could pick up WBUW on rabbit ears in DeKalb when I was there.

However, there's one big reason why Madison and Rockford should remain seperate markets: football. Currently, the Packers get top priority in Madison and the Bears get top priority in Rockford, although Rockford stations also air the Packers whenever possible. If these markets are combined, you'll end up with another Columbus/Erie/Harrisburg type of situation with a LOT of frustrated fans of one team.

 

[RockManAC]

> However, there's one big reason why Madison and Rockford
> should remain seperate markets: football. Currently, the
> Packers get top priority in Madison and the Bears get top
> priority in Rockford, although Rockford stations also air
> the Packers whenever possible. If these markets are
> combined, you'll end up with another
> Columbus/Erie/Harrisburg type of situation with a LOT of
> frustrated fans of one team.
>

Assuming that there's still 2 affiliates of both networks (or 1 main and 1 satellite) I don't see that being much of a problem since the Rockford and Madison stations could split for football/baseball coverage.

Btw.. If this did happen, would it kick WTTW off Rockford cable? Currently WTTW is the only IL PBS station Rockford gets as WHA-TV is part of WPT.

-A<P ID="signature">______________

</P>

 

[Garrett]

Hell at the station we had a TV with a
> coat hanger shoved in the antenna jack and we got a bunch of
> Madison stations on it.
>
Ah yes, the Garrett 2000!
I've produced a few of those myself!
Available where ever clothes are hung!

 

[Tom_Desmond]

Re: The WB in small markets

> Also, could you provide a list of all of them? I know
> KREN-27 in Reno is one along with WFXU-TV/WTLF-DT Live
> Oak/Tallahassee, but beyond that I can't remember the rest.

The information came out of an article in the current week's print edition of Broadcasting and Cable magazine. Unfortunately, they didn't provide a list of the preexisting six small market WB affiliates.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Tom Desmond on 06/16/05 04:00 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[SweetT8201]

Re: The WB in small markets

> > FYI, the WB has been adding sub-100 market affiliates over
> > the past year or so. The latest additions are in
> > Alexandria, LA (KBCA) and Helena, MT (KMTF). With the
> > addition of these two stations, the WB will have eight
> > affiliates in markets below the top 100.

> I know KREN-27 in Reno is one along with WFXU-TV/WTLF-DT Live
> Oak/Tallahassee, but beyond that I can't remember the rest.
>
> - Trip

KWSD 36 in Sioux Falls, S.D., and KWBH-LP 27 in Rapid City, S.D., are two others.