Twin Cities FM Radio Dial

[e-dawg]

How did Twin Cities FM radio dial become a mess. I notice that the size of this market doesn't have lots of FM radio stations and they aren't .8 mHz spacing like other major market FM stations except for Boston, Atlanta, and Pittsburgh.

88.5	KBEM	Jazz 88	Jazz	Minneapolis Public Schools
89.3	KCMP	89.3 The Current	Adult Album Alternative	Minnesota Public Radio
89.9	KMOJ		Urban Contemporary/Talk	Center For Communication & Development
90.3	KFAI	Fresh Air Radio	Talk/Music	Fresh Air, Inc.
91.1	KNOW	MPR News	News/Talk	Minnesota Public Radio
92.5	KQRS	92 KQRS	Classic Rock	Cumulus Broadcasting
93.7	KXXR	93X	Active Rock	Cumulus Broadcasting
94.5	KSTP	KS95	Hot AC	Hubbard Broadcasting
95.3	KZGO	GO 95.3	Modern Hip Hop	Northern Lights Broadcasting
95.9	WLKX	The Big Q	oldies	Lakes Broadcasting Company, Inc.
96.3	KQGO	GO 96.3	Alternative	Northern Lights Broadcasting
97.1	KTCZ-FM	Cities 97.1	Modern AC	iHeartMedia
98.5	KTIS	Life 98.5	Contemporary Christian	University of Northwestern - St. Paul
99.5	KSJN	Classical MPR	Classical	Minnesota Public Radio
100.3	KFXN	The Fan	Sports	iHeartMedia
101.3	KDWB	KDWB	Top-40 (CHR)	iHeartMedia
102.1	KEEY	K102	Country	iHeartMedia
102.9	KMNB	102-9 The Wolf	Country	Entercom
104.1	KZJK	Jack FM	Adult Hits	Entercom
105.1	WGVX (WWWM-FM simulcast)	LOVE 105	Soft AC/Oldies	Cumulus Broadcasting
105.3	WLUP (WWWM-FM simulcast)	LOVE 105	Soft AC/Oldies	Cumulus Broadcasting
105.7	WWWM-FM	LOVE 105	Soft AC/Oldies	Cumulus Broadcasting
106.1	KLCI	Bob FM	Classic Country	Milestone Radio
107.1	KTMY	myTalk 107.1	Female-Oriented Talk	Hubbard Broadcasting
107.9	KQQL	Kool 108	Classic Hits	iHeartMedia

Off all of these full power FM stations not included are low power/translators/Class D radio stations. Also, WLKX 95.9, WGVX 105.1, WLUP 105.3, KLCI 106.1 are rimshots that their signals are located outside of the Twin-Cities metropolitan area. WLKX transmitter is located NE of Twin Cities, WGVX 105.1 transmitter is located North of the Twin Cities, WLUP 105.3 located South of the Twin Cities, KLCI 106.1 transmitter is located NW of Twin Cities.

What cause the Twin-Cities to have fewer FM radio stations and scattered across the dial?

 

[mnradiofan]

Small correction on the above. 105.1 is to the south, 105.3 is north. All three of the 105's were started as independent radio stations that were bought by Cargill for "Rev 105" and then the trio was sold to ABC.

As to why Minneapolis is weird like this, here is my best understanding on it. The Twin Cities metro is a pretty large geographic area, so to cover the entire population of the metro, you need a full 100kw station. The problem is, there are several smaller cities nearby that also need radio coverage (and cannot receive Twin Cities Stations through their entire coverage area, but can on the fringes). St Cloud to the North/West, and Mankato/Rochester/Albert Lea on the south. You have to carve up those allotments without causing interference (less important now with "digital" radio, you can space stations a bit closer than before). If Minneapolis stations wanted to pay for some of those stations to downgrade/move we could probably see more stations on the dial, but I don't think the money is in radio anymore to make this worthwhile (if we were going to see this, the time would have been in the 90s when radio was more profitable).

 

[Gregg.]

It's true Minneapolis-St. Paul is the Top 25 market with the second fewest full power FM signals (not counting suburban Long Island). Only Baltimore has fewer, and that is because it's only 35 miles from Washington and less than 100 from Philadelphia.

In Minneapolis, full power FM stations are spaced at odd intervals. If you have a full power station at 102.9 and another at 104.1, you can't shoehorn another full power station in between them. You get the feeling someone at the FCC was planning the assignments in the larger cities like NYC, LA, Chicago, Detroit, etc., getting as many in, with .8 MHz separation, as possible. But not Minneapolis.

Let's look at the full power FM stations in the commercial band (92-108)...

92.5
93.7
94.5
97.1
98.5 (non-comm)
99.5 (non-comm)
100.3
101.3
102.1
102.9
104.1
107.9

That makes only 10 full power commercial FM stations in Market #15. I count 15 full power commercial FMs in Phoenix, Market #14.

 

[davideduardo]

It's true Minneapolis-St. Paul is the Top 25 market with the second fewest full power FM signals (not counting suburban Long Island). Only Baltimore has fewer, and that is because it's only 35 miles from Washington and less than 100 from Philadelphia.


That makes only 10 full power commercial FM stations in Market #15. I count 15 full power commercial FMs in Phoenix, Market #14.

As mnradiofan says, there are a lot of smaller markets around Minneapolis-St Paul that took up allocations. Phoenix has nothing until you get to Prescott to the North and Tucson to the South, and nothing to the East and West of significance. That means that every channel that fits could be in or near PHX.

 

[fybush]

There are only a handful of markets where the demand for FM channels early on, the geographic realities of nearby markets, and the haphazard development of the early FM dial all added up to create a "full" set of FM allocations. New York, Chicago and LA all started at 92.3 and went every four channels up to 107.5, and even they had some quirks - New York's 105.9 was a lower-powered New Jersey allocation wedged in against 106.1 on Long Island (and even today is just a B1, not a B), Chicago's 92.3 and 106.7 are out in the burbs, LA's 98.7 and 106.7 were unable to go up to Mount Wilson with everyone else. Detroit is almost the full sequence, except that 93.9 went to Canada and 102.7 ended up with major spacing restrictions.

Starting with 92.5 and going up to 107.7 yields several almost-full markets - Seattle, Dallas, San Francisco and Philadelphia are all in that general pattern and are nearly full, but in some cases it took a lot of later allocations work to make it happen; in Dallas, there was a lot of shuffling of outlying allocations in the 80s and 90s to move 93.9 to 94.1, which opened 93.3 for local use.

The 92.3, 93.1, 93.9... and the 92.5, 93.3, 94.1 sequences happen to be the only ones that yield the full complement of class B channels back in the old days. If you start with 92.1 or 92.7, you get sequences full of the old class A channels instead.

It's amazing just how haphazard some of this allocation was in the early years, especially before the FM table of allocations was adopted in 1964. There's a famous story about a new FM application being filed in Binghamton, NY in the 1950s, in which the local engineer was on the phone with the FCC, was asked "what channel do you think you want," looked in his drawer to see what crystals he had on hand for a transmitter, and came up with 99.1. At the time, there was only one other FM in the market and almost nothing else within 100 miles, so 99.1 it was.

 

[Todd Mitchell]

It's true Minneapolis-St. Paul is the Top 25 market with the second fewest full power FM signals (not counting suburban Long Island). Only Baltimore has fewer, and that is because it's only 35 miles from Washington and less than 100 from Philadelphia.

In Minneapolis, full power FM stations are spaced at odd intervals. If you have a full power station at 102.9 and another at 104.1, you can't shoehorn another full power station in between them. You get the feeling someone at the FCC was planning the assignments in the larger cities like NYC, LA, Chicago, Detroit, etc., getting as many in, with .8 MHz separation, as possible. But not Minneapolis.

Let's look at the full power FM stations in the commercial band (92-108)...

92.5
93.7
94.5
97.1
98.5 (non-comm)
99.5 (non-comm)
100.3
101.3
102.1
102.9
104.1
107.9

That makes only 10 full power commercial FM stations in Market #15. I count 15 full power commercial FMs in Phoenix, Market #14.

99.5 was commercial, until Emmis spun it off to MPR. There was also once a commercial FM at 96.1. And don't forget there's a powerful commercial FM (move-in) at 107.1.

 

[Mr Tony]

It's true Minneapolis-St. Paul is the Top 25 market with the second fewest full power FM signals (not counting suburban Long Island). Only Baltimore has fewer, and that is because it's only 35 miles from Washington and less than 100 from Philadelphia.

In Minneapolis, full power FM stations are spaced at odd intervals. If you have a full power station at 102.9 and another at 104.1, you can't shoehorn another full power station in between them. You get the feeling someone at the FCC was planning the assignments in the larger cities like NYC, LA, Chicago, Detroit, etc., getting as many in, with .8 MHz separation, as possible. But not Minneapolis.

Let's look at the full power FM stations in the commercial band (92-108)...

92.5
93.7
94.5
97.1
98.5 (non-comm)
99.5 (non-comm)
100.3
101.3
102.1
102.9
104.1
107.9

That makes only 10 full power commercial FM stations in Market #15. I count 15 full power commercial FMs in Phoenix, Market #14.

Mankato has 100kw C1’s at 93.1, 99.1 and 103.5 which is 80 miles SW of Minneapolis
All 3 can easily be received in the SW suburbs of Minneapolis (well not 103.5 as there is a flea translator in northern Minneapolis)

98.1 and 104.7 are Class C stations licensed to St. Cloud (NW of Minneapolis about 65 miles) and can be received in the western part of the twin cities

Rochester has 97.5 as a Class C

 

[mnradiofan]

99.5 was commercial, until Emmis spun it off to MPR. There was also once a commercial FM at 96.1. And don't forget there's a powerful commercial FM (move-in) at 107.1.

I don’t believe there was ever a commercial FM in the cities at 96.1. You are likely thinking of KARP which started at 96.1 and later moved to 96.3 but that happened before the move to Hollywood, MN and the upgrade to 100kw. They downgraded to 19,000 watts later, because the station was targeting the twin cities but couldn’t be reliably received in St Paul. And they, for now, are commercial as “Go 96.3” but you’d only know that by the once per hour legal ID that airs around the 30 minute mark. No other IDs are presented anymore, as the station is pending sale to EMF and conversion to a non-profit. They expect FCC approval for that by April 1.

 

[Ryan Williams]

The 92.3, 93.1, 93.9... and the 92.5, 93.3, 94.1 sequences happen to be the only ones that yield the full complement of class B channels back in the old days. If you start with 92.1 or 92.7, you get sequences full of the old class A channels instead.

This is because of IF modulation issues? If i start at 92.7, 93.5, 94.3, ... I still get a total of 20 fully spaced facilities. Just like if you start with 92.3 and count .8 from there.

 

[Lester_the_NightFly]

As most covered above, St Cloud and Rochester are close enough and far enough way to prevent any more stations in the market.
Just the luck of the draw is the best way to put it.

 

[fybush]

This is because of IF modulation issues? If i start at 92.7, 93.5, 94.3, ... I still get a total of 20 fully spaced facilities. Just like if you start with 92.3 and count .8 from there.

Until the rules changed late in the 1980s, 20 of the 80 commercial FM channels were reserved exclusively for class A FMs (3 kW originally, later 6 kW). The 92.1 sequence included 92.1, 95.3, 97.7, 99.3, 100.1, 100.9, 101.7 and 104.9. The 92.7 sequence included 92.7, 93.5, 94.3, 95.9, 96.7, 98.3, 102.3, 103.1, 103.9, 105.5, 106.3 and 107.1.

Some markets had enough spacing to allow some of those former class A channels to get upgraded to Bs or Cs - Fort Myers-Naples filled out the top of its dial that way, for instance. In others, those channels ended up being used in the burbs while the big city took the remaining class B/C channels in the sequence. That's Buffalo (92.9, 93.7, 94.5, etc.) - and it explains some of the Twin Cities, too, 93.7, 94.5, 98.5, 104.1 all fit into the 92.1 sequence. But other frequencies got dropped in that didn't fit the sequence - 92.5, 99.5, 100.3, 101.3, 102.1, 102.9, 107.9 - all of which then created spacing holes that didn't allow more Bs right in the Cities.

In some less-crowded places, the big allocations shuffles in the late 80s and 90s allowed for some frequency shifting to allow for more stations in big markets - I mentioned earlier how 93.9 in Fort Worth was moved to 94.1, allowing a new C2 allocation on 93.3 that was fully spaced between 94.1 and 92.5 in DFW. Those sorts of moves have become harder to pull off as the dial has become more crowded and the FCC has changed its rules.

(Which, by the way, has made it impossible now to do some of the things that helped to fill in the Cities FM dial during the allocations shuffles. The "Rural Radio" ruling now prohibits moving an allotment from a non-urbanized area, the way 96.3 and 107.1 were moved in. Even if you could piece together some sort of ambitious shuffle - say, moving KTIS to 98.7 to clear out room to move something in on 97.9, it's impossible under today's rules to pull that off.)

 

[Ryan Williams]

Until the rules changed late in the 1980s, 20 of the 80 commercial FM channels were reserved exclusively for class A FMs (3 kW originally, later 6 kW). The 92.1 sequence included 92.1, 95.3, 97.7, 99.3, 100.1, 100.9, 101.7 and 104.9. The 92.7 sequence included 92.7, 93.5, 94.3, 95.9, 96.7, 98.3, 102.3, 103.1, 103.9, 105.5, 106.3 and 107.1.

Some markets had enough spacing to allow some of those former class A channels to get upgraded to Bs or Cs - Fort Myers-Naples filled out the top of its dial that way, for instance. In others, those channels ended up being used in the burbs while the big city took the remaining class B/C channels in the sequence. That's Buffalo (92.9, 93.7, 94.5, etc.) - and it explains some of the Twin Cities, too, 93.7, 94.5, 98.5, 104.1 all fit into the 92.1 sequence. But other frequencies got dropped in that didn't fit the sequence - 92.5, 99.5, 100.3, 101.3, 102.1, 102.9, 107.9 - all of which then created spacing holes that didn't allow more Bs right in the Cities.

In some less-crowded places, the big allocations shuffles in the late 80s and 90s allowed for some frequency shifting to allow for more stations in big markets - I mentioned earlier how 93.9 in Fort Worth was moved to 94.1, allowing a new C2 allocation on 93.3 that was fully spaced between 94.1 and 92.5 in DFW. Those sorts of moves have become harder to pull off as the dial has become more crowded and the FCC has changed its rules.

(Which, by the way, has made it impossible now to do some of the things that helped to fill in the Cities FM dial during the allocations shuffles. The "Rural Radio" ruling now prohibits moving an allotment from a non-urbanized area, the way 96.3 and 107.1 were moved in. Even if you could piece together some sort of ambitious shuffle - say, moving KTIS to 98.7 to clear out room to move something in on 97.9, it's impossible under today's rules to pull that off.)

That is fascinating. Thank you for the detailed explanation.

 

[aspric]

You also can't usually move in a signal from just outside the market and run them at full power. So the move-ins tend to be either rimshots (105's, 106.1, etc) or run at cripple power in the core cities (96.3, 107.1).

 

[aspric]

I don’t believe there was ever a commercial FM in the cities at 96.1. You are likely thinking of KARP which started at 96.1 and later moved to 96.3 but that happened before the move to Hollywood, MN and the upgrade to 100kw. They downgraded to 19,000 watts later, because the station was targeting the twin cities but couldn’t be reliably received in St Paul. And they, for now, are commercial as “Go 96.3” but you’d only know that by the once per hour legal ID that airs around the 30 minute mark. No other IDs are presented anymore, as the station is pending sale to EMF and conversion to a non-profit. They expect FCC approval for that by April 1.

From what I’ve heard, there was a signal at 96.1 in MSP at one time. WAYL supposedly signed on at 96.1 with its beautiful music format in the early 60s, before moving to 93.7, which is now KXXR. Not sure why they moved.