• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Two daytime AM catches from the Gulf in Dunedin, FL (video)

Sorry to be so late to the conversation but I am kind of surprised you didn't mention being able to hear WWL New Orlean LA on 870 KHz as well. I hear this station any day, with little difficulty all daylight hours long, especially well when I'm within sight of the Gulf, like on Sanibel and on Fort Myers Beach, where the reception is just spectacular. Even as far south as Naples and even (unbelievably) when I'm on Marco Island. It is about a 560 miles hop from here in the Fort Myers area and over 580 miles to Marco Island. Also, If you hear 1600 out of Marathon pretty well, try 1300 out of the Key Largo area too. I receive them both equally well here, which is actually very well, from my location several miles south of the Fort Myers city limits. I would love to hear theories on the reason why this is possible and the mechanism behind its occurrence...BTW, great topic!
 
Oh, it's a given you hear WWL over there. It sounds almost like a local but with the splatter of WGUL.

Even the 1kw WSHO from New Orleans is heard there. Here's my catch of them from a couple years back when I had my loop with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djAgueBwbt0

I even snagged KTRH Houston with the loop too on that same visit back then when the Cancun station was off the air. It's behind WYGM but you hear the ID at 12 seconds into the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WcH0JN1irg
 
PS: 740 KHz is a bit of a weak station, jumbled up sounding frequency in my area during the daytime but by nulling out worst of the crap, I could still only ever clearly pick out and hear a Boca Raton station (WSBR) nearly the exact opposite in direction from the Cancun Mex station you mentioned. :-(
 
Having come from Indiana before moving here, this was, until I again started DXing here at least, a completely unheard of phenomena to me. The longest path I ever heard of from my home town of New Castle during the daytime, was from WLS or WHAS, 180 miles and 116 miles respectively, and I thought that was a big deal back then. Even from various locations here in Florida, this effect seems limited to mostly over-water or near water paths, as for example; WFLF Orlando Florida (50 KW) is just barely better than readable here (140 miles), versus a more coastal WFLA, out of Tampa (113 miles) with 3dB less in transmitter power (25 KW), has way more than an order of magnitude better signal here. I don't amaze too easily anymore these days, but to me, every time I hear of or experience this "medium wave," daytime, normal propagation defying phenomena, I am fascinated and totally amazed by it. I really would love to hear it thoroughly and scientifically described and explained.
 
I see (based on that map data) what you are saying about "ground conductivity" having an effect on propagation. I am also thinking it also has a powerful effect on the "launching" of the signal from the point of origin, seeing as how the area encircling the western coastal Gulf Of Mexico has exceptionally high ground conductivity, New Orleans included. It's almost as if there is a duct or highly conductive RF pathway from anyplace there to anywhere here. Still though, amazing!

I know 970 WFLA is directional, if only through my experiences of trying (while travelling) to receive it out to anywhere that was any distance at all to the north and it's only just a little bit better out to the east of Tampa. Pretty useless to try receiving it going north on 75, or it sure seemed to be. Seems to have great or at least significantly better coverage to the south though, with a good solid signal even in northern Lee County. I looked up the coverage map for 540 WFLF in Orlando and it's just not happening for me as theorized for the area in live in here in Lee County. Its a wide butterfly shaped pattern to the east and west, with a [very] minor southward directing wide lobe. I really should have much better signal here than I do for WFLA but I surely don't. I know for sure the ground conductivity is truly awful here, firsthand! I used to drive grounding rods for CATV power supplies (once upon a time) and there were some places you could just never get to an acceptably low measured resistance using a Megger, no matter how many rods you used, or how deep. There are wide open areas around here, seemingly no different than other wide open areas around here, where medium wave reception noticeably varies from place to place. What other explanation is there for that than for the varying conductivity of the ground?
 
Another potential Daytime station you may care to try your luck with, is the 590 KHz station, Radio Musical out of Santa Clara, Cuba. It's mostly extended periods of playing classical music, with interludes of what sounds like some news and station ID(s), all in Spanish. Audio is pretty good on the music although with low modulation but the voice interludes have what I would describe as a "mushy" audio character to it. I have to precisely null out the low(ish) power (930 watts) Clewiston station, at 57 miles away to hear it and vice versa to hear the Clewiston station, which incidently has a really good clean sound and a nice "real oldies" music lineup. the Cuban station is 309 miles from here, making the path with still more than plenty of poop in its drawers, so who knows, you may well be able to hear it fine too.
 
You're right in that ground conductivity has an effect on launching the signal.

Look at 1700 KVNS. At the top of the dial yet they are heard daytime with a groundwave as far as you'd typically expect to hear an AM signal at the lower end of the dial.

Someone here heard KVNS daytime in summer in the Florida panhandle!

http://radiodiscussions.com/smf/index.php?topic=215312.0

On Honeymoon Island in Dunedin where I do my daytime saltwater DXing, I could not hear what I can officially call a catch of KVNS but on 1700, I did get the fluttering effect between a weak WJCC and some weaker signal which means co frequency interference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjDPHQl6owY

I tried for 590 from Houston but the one from Panama City was too loud.
 
Saltwater AM paths are amazing...back in the day the former WAPE 690 threw a signal from Jackssonville FL up to Myrtle Beach SC that was almost as strong as a local. Today 690 is WOKV...daytime it's non directional with 50 kW. Look at its Radio-Locator map:
http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WOKV&service=AM&status=L&hours=D
The red, 2.5 mV/m circle only goes about 50 miles on land in the poor Florida ground conductivity, but almost 250 miles over saltwater.

(For good ground conductivity, Nebraska is probably one of the best states...here's KCRO 660's daytme Radio-locator map. It goes almost as far as WOKV over land, but with just 1 kW:)
http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KCRO&service=AM&status=L&hours=D
 
gar fla said:
I even snagged KTRH Houston with the loop too on that same visit back then when the Cancun station was off the air.
Click to expand...

The Cancún station is reportedly now gone, only on 92.3 now.

The only Quintana Roo stations left on AM are 860 in Cancún and Chetumal, 960 in Chetumal, and the three AMs in Felipe Carrillo Puerto.
 
gar fla said:
Look at 1700 KVNS. At the top of the dial yet they are heard daytime with a groundwave as far as you'd typically expect to hear an AM signal at the lower end of the dial.

Someone here heard KVNS daytime in summer in the Florida panhandle!
Click to expand...

KVNS also beats up co-channel KKLF, licensed to the northern Dallas suburb of Richardson, during critical hours and at night.

It's worth noting that while KVNS can be heard virtually all along the Texas coast during the day its coverage of the local area isn't all that remarkable. There are just a few U.S. AM stations in the lower Rio Grande Valley area that cover the sizable cities of McAllen, Harlingen and Brownsville with a decent signal and KVNS isn't one of them.

gar fla said:
I tried for 590 from Houston but the one from Panama City was too loud.
Click to expand...

Uh, you've got me puzzled. Houston doesn't have anything on 590.
 
jd said:
gar fla said:
Look at 1700 KVNS. At the top of the dial yet they are heard daytime with a groundwave as far as you'd typically expect to hear an AM signal at the lower end of the dial.

Someone here heard KVNS daytime in summer in the Florida panhandle!
Click to expand...

KVNS also beats up co-channel KKLF, licensed to the northern Dallas suburb of Richardson, during critical hours and at night.

It's worth noting that while KVNS can be heard virtually all along the Texas coast during the day its coverage of the local area isn't all that remarkable. There are just a few U.S. AM stations in the lower Rio Grande Valley area that cover the sizable cities of McAllen, Harlingen and Brownsville with a decent signal and KVNS isn't one of them.

gar fla said:
I tried for 590 from Houston but the one from Panama City was too loud.
Click to expand...

Uh, you've got me puzzled. Houston doesn't have anything on 590.
Click to expand...

Maybe KLBJ from Austin?
 
It was three years ago and I wrote down a whole bunch of stations to look for on a piece of paper. A lot were Houston and some others from Texas.

I just remember 590 being from Panama City mixed with the usual Cuban which I can also hear daytime back in Tampa.

I do specifically remember looking for 550 KTSA from San Antonio on either that visit or a later one because it looked as if there were no stations in between to interfere.

But I did get some kind of a signal on 550 but it was too inaudible. It didn't seem to be coming from the direction of Jacksonville where there's a station on 550 so I don't know what it was.
 
No dice on KVNS for me here in SW Florida. I'm about 2 miles inland from the Gulf so maybe next time I am out on Sanibel or Fort Myers Beach, I'll give it another try. It is a 973 mile path though, so I am skeptical as to whether that will make any difference. It's interesting to note something you also made mention of, that I really pick up nothing much more than noise on this frequency, which is way more than the rest of the X-Band freqs without nearby stations on them. I think part of the noise is from the 10 KW Miami Springs, FL station, WJCC as I can null out the worst of it by aiming 90 degrees away from that general direction. Oddly, that clearly isn't all of all of what is making so much noise and as for you, gar fla, the noise partially consists of the same sort of distinctive fluttering, off frequency beat kind of sound you're hearing there. The flutter rate I hear is much more rapid, so that is why I think it's two different stations involved in the process. If I null toward the Brownsville, TX station, the fluttering stops and the loudest of part of the noise remains. So, like you, I believe I am hearing the effects of KVNS, yet am unable to hear it in the least.
 
One thing I discovered early on about DXing out on a barrier island is that stations that originate from inland are stronger for some reason than they are when you get back on the mainland.

For example, WYGM 740 is barely audible here in Tampa daytime but is much stronger out at the Gulf on Honeymoon Island. Same with WQAM Miami.

Daytime in Tampa, I can not get even a trace of WVLG from the Villages but they are easily heard over there at the Gulf. WJCC is only heard daytime in Tampa sometimes in winter but I've always heard them every time I've been over there on Honeymoon Island no matter what time of year.

Still can't figure out exactly what dynamics are in play to make the stations that cross land paths so much stronger by only adding that couple miles of saltwater.

Speaking of stations from Texas, I also wanted to add that on an even earlier visit, I was looking to get 790 KBME from Houston which I also looked for on later visits hoping to maybe spot an ID in the mix.

During the day, the frequency was jammed like an AM frequency usually sounds at night!

I know for sure I was hearing WAXY because I can even hear them daytime in Tampa. Another had to be WPNN Pensacola because if the distance and the saltwater path and WLBE Leesburg had to be there too. The ticking is Radio Reloj.

If KBME was in there somewhere, I could never pull it out and ID it with all the chatter of all those stations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEWZwxHfkzo
 
Gar fla, are you able to hear the Clewiston, Fl station on 590 KHz? Their daytime pattern is non-directional and the Tampa area is just beyond the calculated fringe for their signal As far away as they are from here, at less than 1 KW, I am amazed their sound is as strong and clean and clear as it is, that is if it's the station I am actually hearing. I am now unsure now what local transmitter it is I am hearing here on this frequency though, as I see there is supposedly another transmitter located in Cape Coral, with the same callsign and frequency, but with a very strongly directional pattern being aimed southwest. If both are in operation, as the info seems to indicate, their patterns conflict mightily in the southern Lee County/Northern Collier County area. I am puzzled!
 
It may have been in there behind the Panama City and Cuban station but I wasn't specifically looking for that one.

Hey, I just thought of something.

One station I've been looking for at night for years is 740 KCBS San Francisco. They are directional but they have a strong lobe to the SE, not directly at Florida but in our general direction so some signal is sent this way.

Here in Tampa, WYGM is usually strong and KTRH is loud too at times, so it's hard to hear what's in the background but I do hear some other station or stations in the background. One time I even got an ID from KRMG.

But I always wondered what I might get if I were down around your way away from the strong signal of WYGM and also the fact that more south you go, the more signal that KCBS would be sending in that direction.

Something you may want to try for at night but especially in the fall and winter.
 
I noticed that same thing too, especially when I'm on Captiva Island, the very best reception is from the tip of the island, right at Redfish Pass, surrounded within a few hundred feet by Gulf water on three sides. WIOD, in spite of being a bit further away from my home location, could truly be heard way better there. It's also the best I've ever been able to hear WWL, coming in as well as WFLA does (or at times better than) from my home location, even though only just barely further south and 4 miles inland from there.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom