Two-Fers

[cyberdad]

Last week in another thread, I mentioned that during the daytime on nearly every graveyard channel, it's possible to hear two stations (1400 is the one exception, with WRJN from Racine, WI being alone). So I got to thinking....what AM channels (or for that matter, FM channels) routinely produce two audible signals at your location during daytime? Either equal strength "fighting it out." Or a channel with one station dominant, another in the background or audible with the dominant station nulled.

Off the top of my head, here are a few I can name....

540: Null WAUK (Milwaukee area) and a very faint KWMT (Fort Dodge, IA) appears
640: Null WMFN (Grand Rapids, MI) and a very faint WOI (Ames-Des Moines, IA)appears
800: Usually(but not always) on a very good radio, very faint signals from both KXIC (Iowa City) and CKLW are present. WBBM's Iboc is a pest.
920: WOKY (Milwaukee) weak. When that's nulled, WBAA (West Lafayette, IN) is usually present
1070: WTSO (Madison, WI) with a fair-weak signal, usually with (what used to be WIBC, Indianapolis) faintly underneath
1220: WKRS with a weak signal. WLPO audible underneath (Waukegan and La Salle, IL respectively. Both 1kw directional)
1230: Dominant WCLO versus a weak WJOB
1240: Dominant WSBC versus a very weak WSDR
1330: The biggest "battle zone" at my QTH. WKTA and WNTA have been battling daily since the days when they were WEAW and WRRR, respectively (Evanston, and Rockford, IL.) Despite the similar calls, there's no connection between the two....other than occupying 1330.
1340: it's a contest with no clear winner between WJYI and WJOL. Two weak signals from Milwaukee and Joliet, IL, respectively
1430: Sort of a replay of 1220. Two stations in roughly the same area as the 1220 duo. This time it's WEEF and WCMY. WEEF is the stronger station (5kw) but they throw most of their signal into Lake Michigan. At my location WEEF is weak. WCMY is even weaker.
1570: WBGX (Chicago rim shot from south suburbs) and WFRL (Freeport, IL) are the combatants here. I'm in something of a null for each, so neither weak signal actually wins.

 

[pianoplayer88key]

Here's mine, although I'm not sure all of them count per the thread rules...

530 - (former) LAX TIS and Vista HAR. Now currently it may be multiple HAR stations in Vista, Oceanside, Escondido, I think, in a synchronous operation. Does that count? (It's extremely weak here, requiring a SAT or better, and nulling a semi-local 540, to hear anything at all.)
790 - KABC Los Angeles is dominant, and XESU Mexicali is weakly audible underneath.
910 - KECR El Cajon is a local, but when it's off the air it reveals XEAO Mexicali very faint with a SAT. (The two stations being at right angles to each other from my location leads me to believe it should be possible, with a well-designed antenna, to null KECR to hear XEAO. Signal strength difference is probably about 70 dB or thereabouts.)
920 - (former?) XESDA Ensenada and KPSI Palm Springs - have heard both here, not sure if Ensenada is still on the air due to Mexican AM->FM migration. Both are very weak, and due to their direction relative to each other and KECR (910), are only audible when KECR is off or non-modulating.
990 - XECL Mexicali weak but dominant over an even weaker KTMS Santa Barbara.
1010 - (former?) XEDX Mexicali and K-??? Thousand Palms (Palm Springs / Coachella Valley area) - same situation as 920, but XEDX has been more commonly heard, as the adjacent on 1000 is about 30 dB weaker than 910.
1050 - XED Mexicali is the dominant one here, but nulling and using a SAT has turned up KCAA Loma Linda on occasion.
1150 - KEIB Los Angeles and XERM Mexicali duke it out, but both get clobbered by strong locals on 1130 and 1170 even on my Tecsuns. (On the Tecsuns, though, it's due to desense/blocking, not ACI.)
1190 - KGBN Anaheim and XEMBC Mexicali - similar situation to 1150, except KGBN is more easily audible.
1230 - KXO El Centro is a regular here (around a local 1240), but I have heard KYPA Los Angeles too.
1240 - KNSN San Diego is dominant, but when it was off the air for a while around the time of the most recent ownership change, I heard KEZY San Bernardino with a SAT and longwire.
1290 - KZSB Santa Barbara, weak but on top of KKDD San Bernardino.
1300 - KROP Brawley vs a weaker KAZN Pasadena.
1340 - KCLU Santa Barbara over XEAA Mexicali.
1370 - KWRM Corona vs XEHG Mexicali, around a local 1360.
1390 - (fudging a little?) At my location XEKT Tecate owns the frequency, but go west into San Diego, toward the beach, and KLTX Long Beach are both medium strength, strong enough to trip a scan, and be clearly listenable / armchair-copy on even cheap pocket radios.
1430 - KWST El Centro over KMRB San Gabriel, similar situation to 1300 but KMRB is weaker than KAZN. KMRB (and I think KAZN if I didn't mention) requires help to receive.
1450 - (similar fudging to 1390) - KSPA Escondido is dominant, but go west and KVEN Ventura can be brought in underneath.
1490 - KSPE Santa Barbara vs KGBA Heber, both pretty weak.
1590 - a possible 3-way battle, depending on who's still on south of the border, between Ventura, Ensenada and/or Mexicali. Help pretty much required to hear them though.

 

[radioman148]

Well Cyberdad the only Differences I observe at my location in the near north Chicago burbs are as follows,

540 all WAUK. I can't hear KWMT
640 all WMFN
800 I've only heard CKLW although quite weak
920 mostly WBAA, I hardly hear WOKY
1230 mostly a weak to fair WJOB
1330 all WKTA here. I've never heard Rockford at home.
1430 all WEEF

The others you listed are pretty much the same here.

 

[charlestondxman]

Here in Charleston, SC, we have many frequencies that are two-fer options. In parentheses is the dominant station.

AM

540: WYNN Florence, SC mixed with WFLF from Orlando (WFLF)
560: WVOC Columbia mixed with WQAM Miami (WVOC)
580: WDBO Orlando and WGAC Augusta (WDBO here, WGAC inland)
660: WLFJ Greenville and WORL Altamonte Springs (depends on the day and where you are)
710: WPOG St. Matthews, SC and WAQI Miami (usually a wild mix)
790: WSFN Brunswick, GA and Miami (WSFN)
810: Dominated by St. George, SC, but Freeport, Bahamas and Orlando under it weak
840: Columbia and Mims, FL (Mims, FL)

 

[cyberdad]

Forgot a couple on my list....

1450: WRLL, Cicero, IL and KFIZ, Fon Du Lac, WI (see below)

1490: WGEZ, Beloit, WI and WPNA, Oak Park, Illinois (just west of Chicago city limits). The two are about equal strength. Both weak, but WGEZ usually gets the better of it.

@Radioman: Exactly what I'd expect at your location 25-30 miles east of me. The stations that I'm hearing that you aren't are all closer to me than they are to you, and all have very weak signals where I am.

@Pianoplayer: You're experiencing almost the same thing as me on the GY channels. Two stations accounted for on each of them except 1400. Your 1240 experience was similar to mine on 1450. When the semi-local 1450 (now WRLL) was off for a while during an ownership change. I had a very weak but alone KFIZ. Although, with the nearer 1450 back on, I can still hear a faint KFIZ with WRLL nulled.

 

[pianoplayer88key]

@cyberdad: Yeah, here there isn't much audible on 1400, between the semi-local adjacent on 1390 and the poor ground conductivity toward some stations. The nearby ones in different directions are, I believe, Santa Paula to the northwest, Indio northeast, Yuma east and Ensenada south. I've heard some faint hint of something but have never positively ID'd it in my memory.
Also at night my local 1240 is strong enough to dominate the channel for casual non-DX listening, but rotate the radio or wait for periods of unmodulated carrier and the chatter is audible way underneath. (I logged the then-Disney station from Albuquerque, NM, about 12 or so years ago, from the opposite direction with this method.)
Also 1450 is a listenable signal in the daytime, but gets clobbered at night. The rest of the GYs are faint at best in the daytime on ultralights, and often only audible outdoors.
The strongest signal on a "two-fer" frequency is 910 KECR, clocking it at around 67-71 dBu on my Tecsuns depending on the radio and time of day, with the PL-380 (which caps at 63 dBu) sometimes showing as low as 61 or 62 dBu.

Another thing I've thought a little on two-fers ... I wonder what would be heard at various station's transmitter sites on their frequencies if the transmitter was off the air? I'm especially thinking Class A signals, but I'm sure Class C would be more likely to have signals audible in the daytime. Also aren't there some flea-night-power D's on which one can clearly listen/copy a co-channel class A or B underneath even with the transmitter on and broadcasting actual programming, within a few meters of the tower?

 

[cyberdad]

I think we've got a topic here for a future thread. Near future.

 

[gr8oldies]

When I worked at WULM-1600 in Springfield, Ohio, I could drive by the transmitter while we were on 34 watts and hear WWRL, New York. Most often we'd have a still unidentified Spanish language station. We did a sports show from a local restaurant one night a week, and during the winter back at the studio it sounded like we were broadcasting from a Mexican restraurant.

@cyberdad: Yeah, here there isn't much audible on 1400, between the semi-local adjacent on 1390 and the poor ground conductivity toward some stations. The nearby ones in different directions are, I believe, Santa Paula to the northwest, Indio northeast, Yuma east and Ensenada south. I've heard some faint hint of something but have never positively ID'd it in my memory.
Also at night my local 1240 is strong enough to dominate the channel for casual non-DX listening, but rotate the radio or wait for periods of unmodulated carrier and the chatter is audible way underneath. (I logged the then-Disney station from Albuquerque, NM, about 12 or so years ago, from the opposite direction with this method.)
Also 1450 is a listenable signal in the daytime, but gets clobbered at night. The rest of the GYs are faint at best in the daytime on ultralights, and often only audible outdoors.
The strongest signal on a "two-fer" frequency is 910 KECR, clocking it at around 67-71 dBu on my Tecsuns depending on the radio and time of day, with the PL-380 (which caps at 63 dBu) sometimes showing as low as 61 or 62 dBu.

Another thing I've thought a little on two-fers ... I wonder what would be heard at various station's transmitter sites on their frequencies if the transmitter was off the air? I'm especially thinking Class A signals, but I'm sure Class C would be more likely to have signals audible in the daytime. Also aren't there some flea-night-power D's on which one can clearly listen/copy a co-channel class A or B underneath even with the transmitter on and broadcasting actual programming, within a few meters of the tower?

 

[gr8oldies]

With poor ground conductivity, nowhere near as many as I would have in Ohio, Indiana or elsewhere in the midwest, but in East Tennessee, here are some I've caught.
570 WWNC Asheville NC/WIDS Russell Springs KY way in background
850 WKVL Knoxville/WKNR Cleveland OH (including because some winter days WKNR can stay in most of the day)
1340 WKGN Knoxville/WGRV Greeneville TN (from Sevierville)
1380 WYSH Clinton TN/WKJV Black Mtn NC
1450 WLAF LaFollette/WLAR Athens TN

 

[schmave]

Not that many around Columbus, Ohio that I can think of.
One that immediately pops out is on 1490 AM, where WMRN from Marion and WBEX from Chillicothe fight it out over the metro, or at least the part where I am. I am about 55 miles from Marion and 45 or so from Chillicothe.
Maybe 15 miles east of me, 1270 AM is a battleground between WQTT from Marysville and WILE from Cambridge. At my home, it's all WQTT.

 

[purpledevil]

700 KSEV is the "local", here in Houston, but WLW fights it at night. 790 is local KBME, but within eyesight of the array, you can hear KFYO Lubbock underneath it. 850 KEYH comes at me from SW Houston, in the daytime it's strong. At night, KOA gives it a battle north of downtown. KYND is our local class D at 1520, but let it be off the air and there's KOKC. At night, it's all KOKC.

Of course, the biggest "two-fer" we have in Houston is at 1010. This two-fer splits the city into two halves. North and west of the Beltway system sees KBBW up in Waco overtake the local KLAT, both day and night. Get 15 miles north or northwest of Houston and you wouldn't even know Houston has a local 1010.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

700 KSEV is the "local", here in Houston, but WLW fights it at night. 790 is local KBME, but within eyesight of the array, you can hear KFYO Lubbock underneath it. 850 KEYH comes at me from SW Houston, in the daytime it's strong. At night, KOA gives it a battle north of downtown. KYND is our local class D at 1520, but let it be off the air and there's KOKC. At night, it's all KOKC.

Of course, the biggest "two-fer" we have in Houston is at 1010. This two-fer splits the city into two halves. North and west of the Beltway system sees KBBW up in Waco overtake the local KLAT, both day and night. Get 15 miles north or northwest of Houston and you wouldn't even know Houston has a local 1010.

You forgot about the KLBJ / XEFD fight on 590. I am looking forward to the Mexico switch to FM to get rid of this one!

 

[rbrucecarter5]

550 in Jackson, MI

Oh the power of regionals on low frequencies! In Jackson, MI, WKRC Cincinnati was very strong and listenable, with nothing audible underneath. Unless ---- you nulled it. Then WGR from Buffalo came in fairly well.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Five-fer on FM!!!!

92.9 from a listening location in Jackson, MI. Depending on which way you antenna is pointed:

KBEZ Tulsa OK
KHLA Jennings LA
KKBQ Houston
KRMX Marlin TX
KNIN Wichita Falls, TX

 

[schmave]

If we're also talking about nighttime (I only mentioned daytime reception in my previous post), then the WVSG (ex-WOSU)/WBAP battle applies on 820 AM.
I am east-northeast of WVSG's tower, so I get a good chunk of its 790-watt night signal. But any sustained silence allows WBAP through. 15-20 miles northeast of me, WVSG's signal fades sufficiently enough that it regularly mixes with WBAP.
[Clearest memory with this channel took place one night back in the winter of 2005 outside a bar near my house. I was waiting for friends to arrive and had the radio on WOSU, which failed to play the 10-second station ID before the top of the hour. WBAP did not forget, and its ID fit perfectly in WOSU's silence.]
WVSG throws a very deep null to the southwest once it switches to night pattern, so much so that WBAP is pretty much alone on the channel to maybe within 15 miles of Grove City coming up I-71 into Columbus, and even then it can be heard amid the co-channel fighting for several miles after that.

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

The DXing days near JFK Airport in Queens NY offered several 2-fers, even back when the longwire was the antenna.

I don't expect it's any different now, except for the missing WGLI 1290. They were very directional away from us, and WTUX from Delaware was always under them and readable.
The old WGSM 740, back in their omni days, had the same trouble from the same direction. WVCH Chester PA (sw of Philly) was even more readable than WTUX was.

Only 1240 was spared the mix. WGBB was a semi-local. But after they signed off every night, 1240 would usually be a mix of WBAX Wilkes-Barre and WWCO Waterbury!
1230's WFAS White Plains would be bothered a bit by WCMC Wildwood NJ, from down the shore.

1340 was a very loud WMID, but WNHC New Haven could be heard.
1400 was WSTC Stamford CT, but if you took Cross Bay Boulevard south maybe a mile, WOND Atlantic City would start to come in.
1450 was WFPG Atlantic City, with WNAB Bridgeport faint.
1490 used to be a fairly loud WLDB Atlantic City, then the closer WGCH signed on. But WLDB was still audible under them.

Odd that the side of the street where you DXed favored either the South Jersey direction (odd-numbered addresses) or Connecticut (even-numbered). Perhaps that had something to do with the power lines' locations. My buddy, four blocks away -- same latitude; same distance from the water -- would get WLAD 800 Danbury atop, while WKDN Camden was louder by me.
He'd get WADS Ansonia atop 690; I got WXUR Media PA atop.

There were quite a few two-fers there. One other non-GY catch I remember came in regularly in the day. The much-closer WNLK 1350 from Norwalk CT was also low-power, full-time, and directional. Behind them was 'Winny radio for the tri-state area' -- WINY Putnam CT, the other end of the state. They were a daytimer then but were 5000 watts omni.
I heard WINY one night over here in NE PA. They were pretty solid. I don't think they powered down to their nighttime class-Z allowance that evening.

 

[Sammi Brie]

You forgot about the KLBJ / XEFD fight on 590. I am looking forward to the Mexico switch to FM to get rid of this one!

XEFD is in a location where it is unlikely to migrate — a metro area on the border.

I have an FM example: 96.1. Here the polarization of the antenna seems to play a role. KLPX in Tucson is 78 miles from me. But closer in is K241BQ, FM translator for an AM station. The latter tends to come in in the car, the former in certain positions on the whip.

One of my more consistent AM two-fers is 980. The combatants are KNTR in Lake Havasu City and XEFQ in Cananea (an IMER station, "La Voz de la Ciudad del Cobre").

 

[gr8oldies]

On my FM dial in East TN, 2 fers include:
91.1 WKCS Knoxville/WZTH Tusculum TN
92.9 WFHG Tri-Cities/WLXX Lexington KY
92.7 WIJV Harriman TN/WMIK Middlesboro KY
93.5 WKZX Lenoir City TN/WAXM Big Stone Gap VA
105.7 W289BQ-FM (WCRK) 105.7 MHz Morristown, Tennessee (250 watts at 1800 ft)/WIHG Harriman TN (the Morristown translator has wiped out WIHG's Knoxville coverage)

 

[jim-satx]

On AM in S.A. during the daytime, I'm hearing the following two-fers:

- 570: KLIF in Dallas and XEBJB (weaker) in Monterrey
- 660: KSKY in Balch Springs (near Dallas) and XEFZ in Monterrey
- 1000: KBIB in Marion and a very weak XENLT in Nuevo Laredo

I have heard the KLBJ/XEFD fight in the past but not in a long time. I'm not hearing XEFD at all during the day lately.

 

[boombox4]

Here in my section of the Seattle-Tacoma metro, on AM there really aren't any daytime two-fers, unless daytime DX conditions kick in -- the most obvious one that's close is 1130 khz, which becomes a battleground between BC Canada's CKWX and Portland's Russian station (can't remember the call letters), especially during sunset and sunrise.

At night time, of course, it's a different animal. There are several frequencies where there are two very strong, semi-local stations that are always present -- but the OP mentioned daytime.