Two Heritage and Classic Radio Station Killed By Jack!

[radiolover78]

Jack killed the magic on 104.3 in Chicago yesterday and Jack threw WCBS FM into the garbage. Two legendary, heritage and classic radio stations gone forever! Infinity is killing oldies radio. It is a sad day!

RIP WCBS FM AND WJMK!<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin</P>

 

[classicradionut]

Well, actually they aren't killing Oldies radio - they're putting stations that aren't selling well out of their misery. The problem really started when they killed the 50s & early 60s music off CBS-FM. After that the station went adrift and lost it's focus.

And, in reality, just about all the Oldies stations' days are numbered for the same reason why there aren't many standards stations around - the demo has one foot in the grave and advertizers know that the audience is mostly on a fixed income now and isn't buying their products. It's all about the money, not some dislike for Oldies. Format doesn't matter, aside from the fact that by playing something that younger listeners with money, there's a better chance that the sales department will actually meet their goals for a change.

Sad, but true. It's really that simple.

Emotionally, I happen to agree with you, however.

Infinity is killing
> oldies radio. It is a sad day!
>
> RIP WCBS FM AND WJMK!
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Airchexx.com - The Best Radio Ever Recorded!</P>

 

[Mouth1390]

> Well, actually they aren't killing Oldies radio - they're
> putting stations that aren't selling well out of their
> misery. The problem really started when they killed the 50s
> & early 60s music off CBS-FM. After that the station went
> adrift and lost it's focus.
>
Granted, WCBS-Fm lost its focus, a lot of the luster and even was unsteady in the ratings. However. . .it had tremendous sales. And that's the rating that counts.

> And, in reality, just about all the Oldies stations' days
> are numbered for the same reason why there aren't many
> standards stations around - the demo has one foot in the
> grave and advertizers know that the audience is mostly on a
> fixed income now and isn't buying their products. It's all
> about the money, not some dislike for Oldies. Format
> doesn't matter, aside from the fact that by playing
> something that younger listeners with money, there's a
> better chance that the sales department will actually meet
> their goals for a change.
A few course corrections for you here. . .the demo for oldies does NOT have one foot in the grave. Sorry, with the average life expectancy up to 75 years old, it will take some time to see those listeners coming out of anywhere feet first. And by the way, you'll be interested to know that 10% of all listeners to Adult/Standards are 18 to 34. . .amazing but true.

Second course correction. . .young people DO NOT have disposable income. Check out any independent research and you will find out that people over 50 years of age have the greatest amount of disposable income in this country. And, they are willing to spend it to satisfy their desires. Adults, 18 to 49, tend to spend money on their needs. There is a significant difference.

And when sales people complain that they buyers won't buy the 35+ demographic, listen carefully. 'The buyers won't buy' translates directly into 'I didn't sell'. There is a difference here, too. Most radio stations do 70% of their business in local, direct advertising. That means the sales person meets with the store owner, car dealer, real estate broker, etc., directly without a middle man. What self respecting business person wouldn't want to tap the market with the greatest disposable income and willingness to spend it ? One who hasn't been sold.
>
> Sad, but true. It's really that simple.
>
> Emotionally, I happen to agree with you, however.
>
> Infinity is killing
> > oldies radio. It is a sad day!
> >
> > RIP WCBS FM AND WJMK!
> >
>
On the other hand. . .I agree with you here. There is only so much tinkering you can do with a format before you kill it off and these two stations are proof positive.

 

[Kahn_II]

> > And, in reality, just about all the Oldies stations' days
> > are numbered for the same reason why there aren't many
> > standards stations around - the demo has one foot in the
> > grave and advertizers know that the audience is mostly on
> a fixed income now and isn't buying their products.

I beg to differ!! I'm not a salesperson, but thier reasoning and research seems a little skewed to me. As I enter my thirties, I see *MUCH* more buying power in 35+ then I do in my age group and younger. Take my dad for example, who is 56; Within the last year he bought a new SUV...switched from dial-up to DSL and cable TV to Dish, bought two cell phones, is making repairs to the house,will be purchasing a big screen HDTV and is currently trying to decide to get XM or Sirius because more and more oldies stations are being blown away when he's trying to listen while traveling. He HARDLY has one foot in the grave! What do I spend MY money on? things I need to get by, MAYBE some entertainment once in a while. I'm not trying to brag here, just making a point.


> A few course corrections for you here. . .the demo for
> oldies does NOT have one foot in the grave. Sorry, with the
> average life expectancy up to 75 years old, it will take
> some time to see those listeners coming out of anywhere feet
> first. And by the way, you'll be interested to know that 10%
> of all listeners to Adult/Standards are 18 to 34. . .amazing
> but true.

Exactly my point above! And yes, I happen to love Sinatra! (Not mixed in with Eminem, however!)

> And when sales people complain that they buyers won't buy
> the 35+ demographic, listen carefully. 'The buyers won't
> buy' translates directly into 'I didn't sell'. There is a
> difference here, too. Most radio stations do 70% of their
> business in local, direct advertising. That means the sales
> person meets with the store owner, car dealer, real estate
> broker, etc., directly without a middle man. What self
> respecting business person wouldn't want to tap the market
> with the greatest disposable income and willingness to spend
> it ? One who hasn't been sold.

Maybe that's the reasoning, I don't know. What I DO kow is that when CBS-FM started throwing in 70's and 80's a LOT of people stopped listening which affected ratings. I remember a couple of years ago switching to CBS and hearing 'Till Tuesday "Voices Carry" out of Chubby Checker.(That is why I think the 'JACK' format is nothing but a trend, but that is another post....)


<P ID="signature">______________
-DK</P>

 

[classicradionut]

> A few course corrections for you here. . .the demo for
> oldies does NOT have one foot in the grave. Sorry, with the
> average life expectancy up to 75 years old, it will take
> some time to see those listeners coming out of anywhere feet
> first. And by the way, you'll be interested to know that 10%
> of all listeners to Adult/Standards are 18 to 34. . .amazing
> but true.


Hold on there, remember, I run a website that's just devoted to OLDIES... Old radio, old music. I'm on YOUR side here so damn dude, don't shoot the messenger.

According to the advertising industry, people over 55 don't count. Really. They do to you and me, but we're not advertisers. Blame the bean counters. These number-crunchers say that people over 55 look at today's economy, social security and lost IRA's & pension funds and say to themselves, "I'm holding on to my money". Yea, they do. And frankly, I don't blame them. Unfortunately, since the people who sell products that older folks just won't buy because they're frivolous expenses know that's the case, they don't bother trying to sell you anymore. They are selling to a younger audience.

Adult Standards... Some things don't necessarilly mean the same thing anymore. Five years ago Adult Standards meant NON-ROCK ERA music. Today, you'll hear The Carpenters, Christopher Cross, Billy Joel, Elton John, The Beatles... mixed in with Perry Como and Frank Sinatra and very VERY occasionally, a big band song, but today that's very rare. And, it's not surprising that 10 percent of 18-34 like music to relax to. But, 10 percent of what percentage of people in a given market? Lets see, there are one million people in Memphis. If my standards station (on AM, mind you) pulls a 1.2 share in it's demo, that means that it's POSSIBLE, that a commercial played on that station might be heard by something like 1200 people - except there's that pesky AQH thing that says only a fraction of your total listening audience is actually tuned in at any given time, so lets knock that number down... to, say, 500 people. That's being generous. it's probably more like 250 or less. So, you're an advertiser, and you're going to lay out $500 dollars a spot to be heard by 250 people? Um, each one of those people now has to purchase $750.00 worth of merchandise in order for this company to actually get a return on its investment.

Gosh, this is so simple...


>
> Second course correction. . .young people DO NOT have
> disposable income. Check out any independent research and
> you will find out that people over 50 years of age have the
> greatest amount of disposable income in this country. And,
> they are willing to spend it to satisfy their desires.
> Adults, 18 to 49, tend to spend money on their needs. There
> is a significant difference.

Yes they do. You're right. but you're wrong about one thing... young people don't have disposable income, but they do have PLASTIC. And the credit card companies are more than willing to extend enormous amounts of credit to young people. Older people over 50, sure, they got the cash... but they are NOT parting with it. They are staying home in record numbers. Wanna be relavant? Get out of the house and go to the mall.

>
> And when sales people complain that they buyers won't buy
> the 35+ demographic, listen carefully. 'The buyers won't
> buy' translates directly into 'I didn't sell'. There is a
> difference here, too. Most radio stations do 70% of their
> business in local, direct advertising. That means the sales
> person meets with the store owner, car dealer, real estate
> broker, etc., directly without a middle man. What self
> respecting business person wouldn't want to tap the market
> with the greatest disposable income and willingness to spend
> it ? One who hasn't been sold.

Well, you can't blame this on all the radio sales people not doing their jobs. It's not THAT prevalent. Here's the problem in a nutshell: Ever hear of media buyers? THey are usually young and somewhat inexperienced, unlike us. They don't think independently, they don't have time to. No, they have all the numbers and data they want available to them and like robots they don't think before they buy. Thats the real skinny.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>

 

[classicradionut]

Guys, you two are missing my point entirely. I agree with YOU... I'm trying to tell you what the bean counters are thinking. I've heard it all before, from both sides.

Naturally, someone 55 plus has more disposable income, in most cases. I'm not disputing that. What I'm trying to explain is the attitude ADVERTISERS are showing towards older Americans.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>

 

[miket]

Whoa! As a 55+ guy with more money than my kid could expect to see right now, I disagree. The 20 something buyers are talking to the 20 something account execs and that's where part of the problem is. Perfect example of the problem assuming that younger folks can buy,buy,buy..remember the Mitsubishi car ads with the multi ethnic guys and gals in the car, techno music,and lots of special effects? sold a lot of cars to people who DIDN'T HAVE THE INCOME to pay for them, and repos and bad debt writeoff has about killed the company's US operations.My spouse and I spend on vacations, personal items-clothing,shoes,the like, and we don't drop dead shopping, but do spend becase on some ads.Now, an 80 year old waiting for Music of your Life to return, that may be another story, but I would venture to say the 55-70 demo is underserved, but someone paying attention will latch on eventually.



> > A few course corrections for you here. . .the demo for
> > oldies does NOT have one foot in the grave. Sorry, with
> the
> > average life expectancy up to 75 years old, it will take
> > some time to see those listeners coming out of anywhere
> feet
> > first. And by the way, you'll be interested to know that
> 10%
> > of all listeners to Adult/Standards are 18 to 34. .
> .amazing
> > but true.
>
>
> Hold on there, remember, I run a website that's just devoted
> to OLDIES... Old radio, old music. I'm on YOUR side here so
> damn dude, don't shoot the messenger.
>
> According to the advertising industry, people over 55 don't
> count. Really. They do to you and me, but we're not
> advertisers. Blame the bean counters. These
> number-crunchers say that people over 55 look at today's
> economy, social security and lost IRA's & pension funds and
> say to themselves, "I'm holding on to my money". Yea, they
> do. And frankly, I don't blame them. Unfortunately, since
> the people who sell products that older folks just won't buy
> because they're frivolous expenses know that's the case,
> they don't bother trying to sell you anymore. They are
> selling to a younger audience.
>
> Adult Standards... Some things don't necessarilly mean the
> same thing anymore. Five years ago Adult Standards meant
> NON-ROCK ERA music. Today, you'll hear The Carpenters,
> Christopher Cross, Billy Joel, Elton John, The Beatles...
> mixed in with Perry Como and Frank Sinatra and very VERY
> occasionally, a big band song, but today that's very rare.
> And, it's not surprising that 10 percent of 18-34 like music
> to relax to. But, 10 percent of what percentage of people
> in a given market? Lets see, there are one million people
> in Memphis. If my standards station (on AM, mind you) pulls
> a 1.2 share in it's demo, that means that it's POSSIBLE,
> that a commercial played on that station might be heard by
> something like 1200 people - except there's that pesky AQH
> thing that says only a fraction of your total listening
> audience is actually tuned in at any given time, so lets
> knock that number down... to, say, 500 people. That's being
> generous. it's probably more like 250 or less. So, you're
> an advertiser, and you're going to lay out $500 dollars a
> spot to be heard by 250 people? Um, each one of those
> people now has to purchase $750.00 worth of merchandise in
> order for this company to actually get a return on its
> investment.
>
> Gosh, this is so simple...
>
>
> >
> > Second course correction. . .young people DO NOT have
> > disposable income. Check out any independent research and
> > you will find out that people over 50 years of age have
> the
> > greatest amount of disposable income in this country. And,
>
> > they are willing to spend it to satisfy their desires.
> > Adults, 18 to 49, tend to spend money on their needs.
> There
> > is a significant difference.
>
> Yes they do. You're right. but you're wrong about one
> thing... young people don't have disposable income, but they
> do have PLASTIC. And the credit card companies are more
> than willing to extend enormous amounts of credit to young
> people. Older people over 50, sure, they got the cash...
> but they are NOT parting with it. They are staying home in
> record numbers. Wanna be relavant? Get out of the house
> and go to the mall.
>
> >
> > And when sales people complain that they buyers won't buy
> > the 35+ demographic, listen carefully. 'The buyers won't
> > buy' translates directly into 'I didn't sell'. There is a
> > difference here, too. Most radio stations do 70% of their
> > business in local, direct advertising. That means the
> sales
> > person meets with the store owner, car dealer, real estate
>
> > broker, etc., directly without a middle man. What self
> > respecting business person wouldn't want to tap the market
>
> > with the greatest disposable income and willingness to
> spend
> > it ? One who hasn't been sold.
>
> Well, you can't blame this on all the radio sales people not
> doing their jobs. It's not THAT prevalent. Here's the
> problem in a nutshell: Ever hear of media buyers? THey are
> usually young and somewhat inexperienced, unlike us. They
> don't think independently, they don't have time to. No, they
> have all the numbers and data they want available to them
> and like robots they don't think before they buy. Thats the
> real skinny.
>

 

[peppertree]

Are you sure that it is not because of a perception that older people are set in their ways and advertising is not very effective on them as it is on younger people?
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>

 

[houstonradiogeek]

> . . .a perception that
> older people are set in their ways and advertising is not
> very effective on them as it is on younger people?
>

b i n g o<P ID="signature">______________
I listen to what I like.
Ratings be Damned.</P>

 

[Oldbones]

>
> Maybe that's the reasoning, I don't know. What I DO kow is
> that when CBS-FM started throwing in 70's and 80's a LOT of
> people stopped listening which affected ratings. I remember
> a couple of years ago switching to CBS and hearing 'Till
> Tuesday "Voices Carry" out of Chubby Checker.(That is why I
> think the 'JACK' format is nothing but a trend, but that is
> another post....)
>

Fer crying out loud, WCBS played CURRENTS for many years! If mixing Journey with Little Richard didn't blow 'em off, shifting the focus 10 years later wasn't gonna do it. Maybe the problem was that they waited too long to get rid of the older stuff, and by that point no one but the 50s fans were left.