U.S. Translators that repeated non-U.S. stations?

[Stanislav]

Can anyone cite cases of translators (licensed or otherwise) near the Canadian or Mexican borders that relayed stations from those countries?

I do recall reading (perhaps in an old WTFDA bulletin) that there were once a few such translators in extreme South Central Texas, located in small towns that were almost 100% Hispanic, that repeated signals from Monterrey. Don't know if they were licensed or not, or what the legalities would have been in the first place.

I'm speaking, of course, of translators intentionally repeating non-U.S. signals, not ones that "accidentally" relayed something else when their primary was off the air. WCIX's translators in South Florida used to be notorious for this -- among the many other channel 6 signals that were sometimes passively relayed in the wee hours, during tropo openings while WCIX was off, was Havana's channel 6.

(Don't believe anyone in FL ever relayed Cuba OTA on purpose, but back in the 70's, the Key West cable system for a brief time picked up Cuba -- channel 9 in Matanzas, if memory serves -- and added it to their lineup. The anglo progressive types couched this as an educational/cultural/political resource to let people see and hear first-hand whatever tripe Fidel was feeding the masses -- "know thine enemy," so-to-speak. But the Cuban exile community was aghast, and the experiment didn't last for long.)

 

[mjlarochelle]

I've heard of some translators in Montana relaying CISA/7 from Lethbridge, Alberta, a Global station. There are some scattered translators in the northern U.S. transmitting the CBC Northern satellite service, mainly in Minnesota if my memory serves me well. There is a Class-A station near Tampa that relays some programs from CJON/6 in St. John's, Newfoundland & Labrador, including their local newscasts and CTV National News. This isn't a full-time rebroadcaster of CJON though.

Likewise, there have long been translators rebroadcasting a few U.S. signals in Canada. Back in the late 1960s there were some locally-owned translators in mountainous parts of British Columbia rebroadcasting stations from Spokane - I have a full list if anyone is interested. More recently, there have been various translators broadcasting encrypted versions of some of the Detroit stations, as well as even a few U.S. cable channels such as A&E and Spike, in addition to Canadian services such as TSN. (These encypted translators gave viewers in certain communities access to various satellite channels from CANCOM, still requiring a decoder box but not requiring a dish.)

 

[w9wi]

I've heard of some translators in Montana relaying CISA/7 from Lethbridge, Alberta, a Global station. There are some scattered translators in the northern U.S. transmitting the CBC Northern satellite service, mainly in Minnesota if my memory serves me well.

I found four CISA relayers in my database, all in Montana. There's also one each relaying CBC Calgary and CTV Calgary. I've heard of the Minnesota stations relaying CBC North, the only one that's coming up right now is channel 21 in Alexandria. I think there used to be one in Colorado as well. (via satellite, of course)

Likewise, there have long been translators rebroadcasting a few U.S. signals in Canada. Back in the late 1960s there were some locally-owned translators in mountainous parts of British Columbia rebroadcasting stations from Spokane - I have a full list if anyone is interested.

I'd like to see the list. There is a table in the I-C database that's supposed to show the programming source for translators, I'm curious how accurate it is.

 

[TVWorldwide]

(Don't believe anyone in FL ever relayed Cuba OTA on purpose, but back in the 70's, the Key West cable system for a brief time picked up Cuba -- channel 9 in Matanzas, if memory serves -- and added it to their lineup. The anglo progressive types couched this as an educational/cultural/political resource to let people see and hear first-hand whatever tripe Fidel was feeding the masses -- "know thine enemy," so-to-speak. But the Cuban exile community was aghast, and the experiment didn't last for long.)

Interesting! I guess this is yet another example of a bizarre political stance taken by the Cuban exile community. West German cable systems had no qualms carrying East German televison before the Wall came down. In fact, a few cable systems in East Germany even carried Western TV stations (the viewing of which was legalized in the early 1970s, although it remained politically "undesirable.") Even Israeli cable systems have always offered state-run channels from Israel's frequently hostile Arab neighbors.

 

[FreddyE1977]

I am guessing you have probably had a few in areas along the Mexican border where there are
stations in Mexico that carry US networks and serve US cities across the border (as in San Diego).

I don't think you would find any in Canada doing over-the-air re-transmissions from US stations.
The Canadian Government is sort of anal about that. "That's Cultural Imperialism, eh?"

 

[BRNout]

There were some translators around Cortez, CO that relayed CBC programming that was picked off the bird. If memory serves, there may have even been one or two other Canadians offered on that system.

This was back in the mid-1990s; not sure what they've got there today.

 

[drt]

Canadian

Canadian cable systems can and do carry U.S. OTA channels, but these are usually in Cable systems near the border and they are limited to carry the U.S. network stations and PBS for a limit of 4 or 5 OTA U.S. stations.

The below quote from Wikipedia mentions this:

"selected specialty channels, at a minimum including CBC Newsworld, RDI, The Weather Network and/or MétéoMédia, CTV News Channel and/or LCN, and VisionTV;
a community channel (locally-produced public affairs and information programming and community events listings);
American broadcast network affiliates. These are carried under a "4 + 1" rule, meaning that a cable company may offer any four American commercial networks and PBS on a basic tier. In most markets, the four commercial networks provided are ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox, although in many markets FOX is carried on a modified dual-status rather than a basic tier. Other networks, such as The CW and MyNetworkTV, can only be offered on a discretionary tier; generally they are offered through the packaging of American superstations, such as KTLA, WPIX and WGN, with pay TV services. However, cable providers in border markets within the broadcast range of a major American television market, such as Windsor, may be granted an exemption to the 4 + 1 rule to improve the marketability of their service - Cogeco Cable systems in Windsor carry Detroit's WKBD and WMYD."

The article also mentions that TBS (the OTA channel, not the national feed) is also carried on many Canadian Cable systems.

drt

 

[dhett]

I have several examples:

KPHE-LD 44.1 Phoenix AZ is currently a rebroadcaster of both XHAW 12 Monterrey NL (Multimedios) and XEWH 6 Hermosillo SO (Telemax). There have also been several other Multimedios rebroadcasters in the U.S., and still are. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedios_Television. (List may not be current.) These may be the Texas stations you cited.

Telemax also once had a rebroadcaster in Tucson AZ, KQBN-LP 14 (now Azteca America affiliate KUDF-LP). Twice during its history, K28FM Yuma AZ has been a rebroadcaster of XHILA 66 Mexicali BCN, first when XHILA was independent, and later when XHILA was a Cadena Tres affiliate. K28FM is now silent due to being co-channel with XHAQ-TDT Mexicali.

 

[w9wi]

I am guessing you have probably had a few in areas along the Mexican border where there are
stations in Mexico that carry US networks and serve US cities across the border (as in San Diego).

Actually, I've never heard of any US-based translators of Mexican stations carrying US networks. I have a vague recollection of a rumor of KNVO-DT McAllen, Tex. carrying XHRIO (Fox) on a DTV subchannel.

I haven't seen records all the way back, but until the last five years or so I'm not aware of *any* US-based translators carrying Mexican stations.

 

[w9wi]

Canadian

Canadian cable systems can and do carry U.S. OTA channels, but these are usually in Cable systems near the border and they are limited to carry the U.S. network stations and PBS for a limit of 4 or 5 OTA U.S. stations.

To my knowledge *most*, if not all, Canadian cable systems carry U.S. OTA channels.

It used to be those near the border received those channels OTA. (sometimes via strings of translators) More recently the vast majority of systems are receiving them via satellite. This has been an occasional source of controversy when, for example, a cable system in rural Manitoba drops North Dakota U.S. affiliates & replaces them with Detroit.

Systems near the border may carry additional U.S. stations beyond the 4+1 allowed everywhere. My understanding is that if the U.S. station puts an OTA signal across the cable community, it may be carried.

 

[azumanga]

I have a vague recollection of a rumor of KNVO-DT McAllen, Tex. carrying XHRIO (Fox) on a DTV subchannel.

It's no rumor -- KNVO does carry XHRIO on DT 3. Of course, XHRIO is a Fox affiliate for the RGV, operated by the owners of KNVO (its license and transmitter, of course, held by Mexican owners).

 

[FreddyE1977]

There were some translators around Cortez, CO that relayed CBC programming that was picked off the bird. If memory serves, there may have even been one or two other Canadians offered on that system.

This was back in the mid-1990s; not sure what they've got there today.

Now that you mention it, I do recall an LPTV station in Ohio that was filling part of
their daily schedule by picking up MuchMusic (the Canadian equivalent of MTV) off the bird.

 

[Gregg]

There was a time in the 90s when a low power UHF station, I assume owned by Stevens Technical College in Hoboken NJ, used to run MuchMusic, the Canadian music video channel. Hoboken is right across the Hudson from Manhattan.

I don't remember the station ever giving a legal I.D. but it would break into MuchMusic to broadcast Stevens Tech basketball games. The games were often very blurry so I'm guessing the college was doing experimental broadcasts, maybe using a different technology. I suppose rather than turning off the station, when they weren't doing the experimental broadcasts, they simply picked up MuchMusic off a satellite. The Canadian commercials would run as well.


Gregg
[email protected]

 

[Bob1370]

For a while in the late 1960s a full power station in New York State's far western corner, WNYP (ch. 26) in Jamestown, actually affiliated with and carried programs from Canada's CTV network from sign-on to 11 PM. although thry never carried the CTV national newscast, but did a local newscast of their own leading into the late movie. Apparently there was an FCC rule against full affiliation with foreign networks back then, so they had to drop CTV in 1970, couldn't secure a major US network affiliation (the Buffalo stations called it part of their turf) and couldn't make it as a purely local indie--so it folded, and didn't return until a religious outfit bought it many years later.

AFAIK the FCC rules have changed enough that a US station could probably get away with a CTV affiliation today, except for the fact that the Canadian net shows enough US-originated and US network-owned programming that it would have to black out about half the primetime schedule to avoid getting sued by American networks and their primary affiliates.

 

[w9wi]

For a while in the late 1960s a full power station in New York State's far western corner, WNYP (ch. 26) in Jamestown, actually affiliated with and carried programs from Canada's CTV network from sign-on to 11 PM. although thry never carried the CTV national newscast, but did a local newscast of their own leading into the late movie. Apparently there was an FCC rule against full affiliation with foreign networks back then, so they had to drop CTV in 1970, couldn't secure a major US network affiliation (the Buffalo stations called it part of their turf) and couldn't make it as a purely local indie--so it folded, and didn't return until a religious outfit bought it many years later.

AFAIK the FCC rules have changed enough that a US station could probably get away with a CTV affiliation today, except for the fact that the Canadian net shows enough US-originated and US network-owned programming that it would have to black out about half the primetime schedule to avoid getting sued by American networks and their primary affiliates.

I'm not as familiar with the rules in the 1960s as with the current rules, but I'm not aware of anything from a FCC standpoint that would have prevented a U.S. station from carrying CTV programming.

I suspect the problem WNYP had back in 1970 was the same as a U.S.-based CTV affiliate would have today: CTV had no rights to run most of their programming outside Canada.

 

[Bob1370]

"I'm not as familiar with the rules in the 1960s as with the current rules, but I'm not aware of anything from a FCC standpoint that would have prevented a U.S. station from carrying CTV programming."

There aren't any rules against purchase of specific programs from any source. But there were rules in place then, that specifically said a US licensed station could not fully affiliate with and carry the live feed of a foreign network. No one at WNYP knew it, and apparently no one made an issue of it until the major Buffalo network affiliates blew the whistle. Seems that CTV timeshifted American network programs it bought for Canadian broadcast, and some of those shows actually aired over the Canadian network a day or two EARLIER than the same show would feed in the United States. You can imagine why WGR-TV, WBEN-TV and WKBW-TV didn't like that happening on their southern flank--there were already some people on the northern end of the Buffalo market who'd point their antennas north toward CFTO in Toronto to get a sneak peek at some of their favorites and they didn't need any more audience loss from the southern part of the Buffalo ADI.

 

[mjlarochelle]

I'd like to see the list. There is a table in the I-C database that's supposed to show the programming source for translators, I'm curious how accurate it is.

From December 1967:

Crescent Valley, BC - CHMS-TV-1 - relays KXLY-TV (CBS) Spokane
Nakusp, BC - CJNP-TV-2 - relays KXLY-TV (CBS) Spokane
New Denver, BC - CHSL-TV-1 - relays KREM (ABC) Spokane
Yull Mountain, BC - CKBF-TV-1 - relays KXLY-TV (CBS) Spokane

 

[dhett]

K28FM Yuma AZ is back on air and carrying XHILA (Cadena Tres) once again.

 

[mjlarochelle]

I found a broadcasting yearbook from 1961-62 that has a full list of U.S. TV translators from that time.

One of the translators listed was K77AV in Palm Springs, California, which rebroadcast XETV/6 Tijuana. That was the only translator of a Mexican station I could find.

Others listed, all in Montana, included K04AN in Chinook, K79AG and K11AN in Cut Bank, K78AH in Joplin, and K76AG in Shelby. All of these rebroadcast CJLH/7 Lethbridge, Alberta.

Interestingly there was a very large number of translators by that time, but they were virtually all owned by local TV clubs, not by the stations they rebroadcast. For example KNXT/2 Los Angeles had a number of translators, such as K76AJ in Twentynine Palms, owned by the Morongo Basin TV Club; that same club also owned a translator rebroadcasting KRCA/4. Quite a few translators rebroadcast stations in adjacent states; for example there was one in Nevada that rebroadcast KRON from San Francisco.

Also, most translators back then either broadcast on VHF, or in the 70-83 range of UHF.

I bring those things up because there was a thread some time ago asking about the history of translators.

 

[Bob1370]

"One of the translators listed was K77AV in Palm Springs, California, which rebroadcast XETV/6 Tijuana."

That would have been at a time when XETV was effectively the San Diego market ABC affiliate. It would later (in the 80s) hook up with Fox, and to this day is an exclusively English-language station primarily aimed at San Diego viewers, with main studios in San Diego beaming programming by microwave across the border to the transmitter on a hill above Tijuana.

Thing I can't figure out is why they'd relay XETV rather than pointing the receiving antenna toward Mt. Wilson and relaying KABC-TV, Channel 7 in Los Angeles, instead...KABC ought to be easier to pull in...