UNDER/POORLY-PERFORMING CABLE NETS

[carolinaradio]

This should be an interesting discussion....

What cable channels are performing poorly? Failing? What about those that started out to be something big, but never really made it? We hear about which ones do well all the time (USA, TBS, ESPN, TNT, A&E, et al), but rarely those that are at...the bottom of the stack. I've got a few:

OWN: Not much to say here. Even Winfrey admitted herself that it was a mistake. The ratings are terrible - I don't know how they'll turn this puppy around.

The Hub: Not exactly a horrible situation, but it's not, to my knowledge, had a ton of growth and was trailing the other kiddie nets last summer. I don't think it's done nearly what they expected.

Hallmark: In 2010, the idea of the Martha block and her shows was to sort of...save the channel. They were struggling and needed the demographics/viewers they hoped her programming would bring to the channel. Now Martha has been canceled and I'm not sure if anything has been announced about the rest of the block. I don't think this channel has ever been a solid performer in any incarnation. Personally, I think their Movie Channel is much better. Not saying a lot, but still.

G4: Terrible programming. A shell of its former self even as G4 and nothing like TechTV was. Kind of a low rent Spike.

There are some others, like Millitary History (which I'd love to have) and Lifetime Real Women that I forget still exist because my provider doesn't even carry them. Maybe Chiller and Cloo deserve mentions as well; "Cloo" (formerly Sleuth) is basically USA2 and serves no purpose. 'Til Death on "Cloo?" Really? I don't know the ratings for any of these I just mentioned in this paragraph, but I doubt they're good.

 

[EricStein]

Who can forget the Reelz Channel, owned by the Hubbards of St. Paul? What started out as "TV about Movies" (reviews, behind-the-scenes shows, etc.) has morphed into a semi-political entertainment channel, airing "The Kennedys" mini-series that Showtime and History passed on, as well as the Pro-Sarah Palin biography "The Undefeated." Kind of fulfilling the dream of a right-leaning entertainment network that Kelsey Grammer had thought up of. It's also trying to gain some buzz by showing Steven Seagal's Canadian TV project, "True Justice," for the first time to audiences in the United States.

 

[nathannah]

I would have to say I disagree that the Hub is really struggling, just stuck having to compete with the eight Disney and Nick channels and two Cartoon Network channels, which leave very little for any other competitors. They've certainly done alot better than OWN considering their circumstances, and the adult appeal and rise of Bronies with My Little Pony has certainly given it a happy boost it really expected more with the new Transformers (the MLP ad in the Times yesterday proved that). Anything is an improvement over Discovery Kids, which was treading water long before Hasbro brought the Hub idea to Discovery.

Fuel TV is struggling so much even with UFC, it's no wonder the Fox Sports National rumors may come true. There's just not an audience at all for extreme sports programming which is just better lived than watched, and the treatment of the broadcast networks of skiing, snowboarding and skateboarding as infomercial-like time filler outside the X Games certainly permanently wounded the entire genre deeply.

I'm down to only X-Play on G4; AOTS is now unwatchable outside of one segment for me, and their outside program acquisitions (usually terrible action films that laid a large egg at the box office or video store shelves, Quantum Leap, etc.) have been quite poor.

The one candidate for being really poor, Planet Green (another Discovery network), knew their problems; they're rebranding on Memorial Day as the patriotic-heavy Destination America, and used their very odd schedule the last few months to boost its ratings so that it wouldn't die on the vine.

Great American Country may as well not exist, as the broadcast Country Network seems to be an even stronger competitor to CMT than GAC has ever been. Scripps isn't even trying to compete with CMT and content to live on forced clearance from HGTV/Food.

At this point, Oxygen and Style might as well merge together; both their program schedules are underwhelming and it seems a waste for Comcast to have two channels going after the same type of viewer.

FuseTV is back to losing its way all over again; they were quite strong last year, but once Time Warner pulled them from their systems they've lost much of their unique programming and depend more on overran music video blocks to keep the lights on.

Among the major channels, it seems like TLC is just focused on the completely bizarre and I can't watch a show on that channel, while HLN may as well rebrand as CrimeTV, as they usually just cover nothing but crime. And Nickelodeon has claimed alot of Nielsen bunkum on why their ratings have been so low, when it's definitely more the fact they seem to be unable to admit they have a problem rerunning iCarly, SpongeBob and Big Time Rush wayyy too much, and are putting a dangerous bet that people will still care about Rachel Crow (the X-Factor contestant) and One Direction (English boy band) later in the year when they get shows built around them; Disney is certainly smarter about who they cast and build their own stars (they rushed Mitchell Musso off their air the moment his DUI hit), and these days, one bad tweet from a network personality can wound your network quite a bit.

 

[EricStein]

Great American Country may as well not exist, as the broadcast Country Network seems to be an even stronger competitor to CMT than GAC has ever been. Scripps isn't even trying to compete with CMT and content to live on forced clearance from HGTV/Food.

I'd disagree with you about GAC vs. The Country Network. I heard TCN is having financial difficulties. Add the ever-present technical problems, and their inability to properly schedule "E/I" programming (the awful "Gina D's Kids Club," which one of our local weather subchannels in Phoenix also airs). On the West Coast, TCN's E/I block airs on Saturday mornings starting at 5am - two hours before the FCC mandated window. I don't know if they'll make it to the end of the year the way things are going for them, and many of the affiliates will replace them with Antenna TV, Live Well, and the like.

Among the major channels, it seems like TLC is just focused on the completely bizarre and I can't watch a show on that channel, while HLN may as well rebrand as CrimeTV, as they usually just cover nothing but crime. And Nickelodeon has claimed alot of Nielsen bunkum on why their ratings have been so low, when it's definitely more the fact they seem to be unable to admit they have a problem rerunning iCarly, SpongeBob and Big Time Rush wayyy too much, and are putting a dangerous bet that people will still care about Rachel Crow (the X-Factor contestant) and One Direction (English boy band) later in the year when they get shows built around them; Disney is certainly smarter about who they cast and build their own stars (they rushed Mitchell Musso off their air the moment his DUI hit), and these days, one bad tweet from a network personality can wound your network quite a bit.

TLC, while not doing too bad itself, airs TOO MANY wedding-related shows. So does its direct competitor, WE. But, then again, both networks' target audience is women.

The first message said that G4 is a "poor-man's Spike TV." Well, if that's the case, then MavTV (an independent "men's" network) is a poor-man's G4/HDNet. MavTV is a mish-mash of shows targeted to men, as well as motorsports shows produced by the network's owner, Lucas Oil, and some bottom-of-the-barrel syndicated shows and reruns of Canadian crime drama "Cold Squad." They've recently added more hunting and fishing shows - most likely ones cast off (no pun intended) by The Outdoor Channel after they picked up some of the former Versus outdoor shows after its rebranding to NBC Sports Network.

 

[nathannah]

I'd disagree with you about GAC vs. The Country Network. I heard TCN is having financial difficulties. Add the ever-present technical problems, and their inability to properly schedule "E/I" programming (the awful "Gina D's Kids Club," which one of our local weather subchannels in Phoenix also airs). On the West Coast, TCN's E/I block airs on Saturday mornings starting at 5am - two hours before the FCC mandated window. I don't know if they'll make it to the end of the year the way things are going for them, and many of the affiliates will replace them with Antenna TV, Live Well, and the like.

I didn't realize they were in financial straits (with the way it's hard to find out news on the smallest of diginets I would've never known). I guess the only thing keeping them going right now is the large Sinclair deal because they haven't got very much carriage outside of SBG. I'm not a country fan so I don't usually make my way to TCN or GAC, but TCN just seemed to be the one much more pure than GAC, which just seems on an auto-pilot until Scripps can find a way to change it into another network.

The first message said that G4 is a "poor-man's Spike TV." Well, if that's the case, then MavTV (an independent "men's" network) is a poor-man's G4/HDNet. MavTV is a mish-mash of shows targeted to men, as well as motorsports shows produced by the network's owner, Lucas Oil, and some bottom-of-the-barrel syndicated shows and reruns of Canadian crime drama "Cold Squad." They've recently added more hunting and fishing shows - most likely ones cast off (no pun intended) by The Outdoor Channel after they picked up some of the former Versus outdoor shows after its rebranding to NBC Sports Network.

Oh geeze, how could I forget MavTV? Bottom of the barrel is being kind at this point, and any network which takes CanCon content is pretty desperate and cheap. Also, they were stupid to ditch the more silly stuff like Bikini All-Stars and their roller-derby coverage when Lucas bought out the founding owners; they might be bad ratings to have (of the 12-20 Internet-blocked crowd looking for certain 'material'), but they are ratings of some kind Cold Squad isn't getting.

Also, I'm waiting for the inevitable day when Showtime, Paramount and Lionsgate have 'come to an agreement to wind down the operations of Epix and move that content to Showtime'. Epix truly has to be the most unneeded premium network to ever launch and only came to the air because of Viacom not wanting to give their brothers at CBS anything from Paramount; Showtime's doing just fine without Paramount's usually awful films. The only viewers they're getting are those that have to get it as part of a premium bundle, and Epix's 'original programming' department never launched a show.

 

[ansky212]

I'd say that any network that still doesn't have an HD counterpart is struggling. I'd agree with every network listed in the posts above.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

How is the Longhorn Network doing? You know, the University of Texas's TV network. I'm guessing ratings are essentially 0.

Current? Even with their behind-the-curtains drama, they're still only seen in about 40 million homes and ratings are bad.

 

[John1]

many of the 'successful' cable networks have 'sold their soul' by abandoning the programming they stood for & replaced with reality shows to appeal to mass audience. I understand financially, but there is little 'arts' since A&E & Bravo went that route, same for Discovery, History, etc. Even music video channels MTV, VH1, CMT, GAC, etc, are mostly reality shows & movies, and 'news' networks are opinion shows. So only the small 'under-performiing' channels still try & hold to their original intention programming.

 

[KERCAlum]

There's a lot to be said for Hub, but unfortunately many of its target demographics have the attention span of a fruit fly. Programming for kids is a crap shoot at best.

Most of the channels like Current, Cloo, TruTV, ID, and even Military History and Discovery go unwatched in my house. There is no compelling programming that warrants a look (although if it's late at night and I'm flipping through the channels, I might light on a WWII show on MH before going back to Angry Birds ;D).

Sometimes I don't even know why I have U-Verse. I might watch about a dozen channels, including the ones I can get OTA. But since the Rangers sometimes air on ESPN, and there is no OTA counterpart to Fox Sports Southwest, and since my daughter would go absolutely ape-crazy if we lost Speed (because of supercross/motocross), we still shell out the bucks. Do the channels that we don't watch count as underperforming or poorly performing?

I'd be happy if I could get that programming a la carte, but I'm not shelling out $200 for MLB.tv, and there is no live internet coverage of SX or MX. So there you go.

 

[charlestondxman]

Fuel is one of the lowest rated cable channels. Every sports bar I know of puts it on, but that might be its biggest audience. They average like 10,000 viewers a day. That is pathetic. Our local news stations in Charleston (barely in the top 100) get more viewers than that for the morning and/or Noon news.

GSN is another channel which is poor-performing. What is its purpose? Steve Harvey Family Feud is their highest-rated show. It does get much higher ratings than Fuel.

 

[FreddyE1977]

Fox Soccer Plus. Soccer has limited appeal in the US, even under the best of circumstances.
And they already have Fox Soccer, which shows most of the Premiere League matches from England,
where the game is played at its highest level.

Since GOL seems to have a lock on Latin America that consigns Fox Soccer Plus to a steady diet of
French and Italian soccer, English soccer from the "AAA" minor league level, and tons of rugby.

That's a formula for failure even if they were not charging an additional premium to subscribe.

 

[azumanga]

...it seems like TLC is just focused on the completely bizarre and I can't watch a show on that channel...

TLC, while not doing too bad itself, airs TOO MANY wedding-related shows.

TLC generally slants towards brides-to-be on Friday nights, with "Say Yes to the Dress" and "Four Weddings", which I use to watch with regularity -- until we got married, in which the novelty began to wear off. I used to watch TLC for "Cake Boss" (and its spinoffs), "What Not To Wear" and "Police Women", but these days, with those shows off the schedule, prime time outside of Friday has generally been mostly retreads from "Dateline NBC", "48 Hours" and "20/20", with crap such as "Leave it to Niecy", "Long Island Medium" and of course, "Toddlers and Tiaras" filling the schedule.

 

[azumanga]

Most of the channels like Current, Cloo, TruTV, ID, and even Military History and Discovery go unwatched in my house. There is no compelling programming that warrants a look...

I do watch "Hardcore Pawn" on TruTV, but that's the only TruTV program that I watch, and my wife watches ID on occasion. My wife also watches H2, the History channel spinoff, but we never seen Military History (not on Bright House).

 

[carolinaradio]

All of these are good mentions. I was going to mention Planet Green, but since it's finally going away, figured it wasn't worth it. GSN is another good one. They've tried several rebrands, but nothing ever really works for them. A network for game shows seems like a good idea, but I don't think it's popular enough to base a whole network on. Style is a good mention, also. Their programming seems so...tacky.

Most of the channels like Current, Cloo, TruTV, ID, and even Military History and Discovery go unwatched in my house. There is no compelling programming that warrants a look...

I do watch "Hardcore Pawn" on TruTV, but that's the only TruTV program that I watch, and my wife watches ID on occasion. My wife also watches H2, the History channel spinoff, but we never seen Military History (not on Bright House).

I'm wondering who actually *has* Military History. I've never had it on cable, known anyone that had it, and it's not available on either of the satellite providers. I really hate that H2 is higher-tier -- I really miss the old History Channel.

What about Discovery Fit & Health? A lot of their programming seems like leftovers from TLC...

 

[crainbebo]

Fuel is one of the lowest rated cable channels. Every sports bar I know of puts it on, but that might be its biggest audience. They average like 10,000 viewers a day. That is pathetic. Our local news stations in Charleston (barely in the top 100) get more viewers than that for the morning and/or Noon news.

GSN is another channel which is poor-performing. What is its purpose? Steve Harvey Family Feud is their highest-rated show. It does get much higher ratings than Fuel.

If GSN can start showing OLDER game shows, and Bob Barker TPiR, then the ratings will go up. I don't watch it. With the new reality show crap they are putting on like DWTS reruns, just change the name to GRSN-Game/Reality Show Channel.

-crainbebo

 

[EricStein]

Oh geeze, how could I forget MavTV? Bottom of the barrel is being kind at this point, and any network which takes CanCon content is pretty desperate and cheap. Also, they were stupid to ditch the more silly stuff like Bikini All-Stars and their roller-derby coverage when Lucas bought out the founding owners; they might be bad ratings to have (of the 12-20 Internet-blocked crowd looking for certain 'material'), but they are ratings of some kind Cold Squad isn't getting.

"Cold Squad" is not even the worst program MavTV has to offer. They're still airing "Treasure Hunters Roadshow," which was pulled out of general syndication last year because the producers were sued by PBS's "Antiques Roadshow" for trademark infringement. MavTV's website says they're going to "rebrand" in a few months, so I wouldn't be surprised if they become the "Lucas Oil Motorsports Network."

Also, I'm waiting for the inevitable day when Showtime, Paramount and Lionsgate have 'come to an agreement to wind down the operations of Epix and move that content to Showtime'. Epix truly has to be the most unneeded premium network to ever launch and only came to the air because of Viacom not wanting to give their brothers at CBS anything from Paramount; Showtime's doing just fine without Paramount's usually awful films. The only viewers they're getting are those that have to get it as part of a premium bundle, and Epix's 'original programming' department never launched a show.

I agree that Epix is having a tough time finding distribution. However, I do see the day when Showtime and Starz merge. Take Starz's superior movie library (After they lost Paramount, all Showtime has is mostly Z-grade content) and Showtime's expertise at critically-acclaimed original programming, and you've got a network that can really go up against HBO. I think this will happen once Les Moonves leaves CBS--in the meantime, his ego is in charge using Redstone money.

A couple other networks I know are having a difficult time are ESPN Classic and CBS Sports Network. The Mouse doesn't like to close down networks completely, so I wonder how long it will take for ESPN Classic to become ESPN Radio on TV? As for CBSSN, they seem to be ramping up their programming lineup (the addition of Jim Rome's daily TV show), but I doubt that is enough to even turn it into a second-tier sports network along the lines of NBC Sports Network.

 

[Nate Wesley]

If we're going to do this thread right, it might be helpful to have some actual numbers (ratings, household distribution numbers, financials, etc.) to define what 'under-performance' is. So far, most of what we have here includes subjective speculation.

 

[carolinaradio]

If we're going to do this thread right, it might be helpful to have some actual numbers (ratings, household distribution numbers, financials, etc.) to define what 'under-performance' is. So far, most of what we have here includes subjective speculation.

A lot of the channels mentioned here are widely available, but are higher-tier nets that not as many people get because they are on costlier, higher-tier packages that not as many people have as those that have Discovery, USA, Travel, TNT, etc.
Some, like Military History and Lifetime Real Women, aren't -- I guess there's a good reason.

I'd like to know some numbers, as well, but they're scarce - only one I definitely know of is Hallmark which publically said they had too old of a demographic in 2010 (which is why they added Martha's stuff).

 

[nomadcowatbk]

Fuel is one of the lowest rated cable channels. Every sports bar I know of puts it on, but that might be its biggest audience. They average like 10,000 viewers a day. That is pathetic. Our local news stations in Charleston (barely in the top 100) get more viewers than that for the morning and/or Noon news.

GSN is another channel which is poor-performing. What is its purpose? Steve Harvey Family Feud is their highest-rated show. It does get much higher ratings than Fuel.

If GSN can start showing OLDER game shows, and Bob Barker TPiR, then the ratings will go up. I don't watch it. With the new reality show crap they are putting on like DWTS reruns, just change the name to GRSN-Game/Reality Show Channel.

-crainbebo

Old games show won't get young viewers

 

[EricStein]

Old games show won't get young viewers

So won't reruns of "Murder, She Wrote" or "Matlock." That's good, if the only type of advertisers you want to see are for Craftmatic beds and that retrofitted bathtub hawked by Pat Boone.