Univision buries NBC to FIFTH PLACE!!!!!!

[JeeperOne]

That's nothing.

In Miami, NBC ranks 6th, behind corporate cousin Telemundo.

I'd be more interested in how NBC does in the big northeastern markets (NYC, Philly, Washington, & Boston), plus LA, SF, and Chicago since - at least by reputation - that's all they seem to care about.

As proof of this, they took what was probably their BEST PEFRORMING stations in KCNC 4 & dumped it onto the doorstep of CBS (Who of course GLEEFULLY took it) back in 1995 & FOR WHAT ??

* A station swap in Philly (OK, that worked out fairly well)

* Settling their dilemna with CBS in Miami (Look how THAT worked out)

* Dumping of O&O WBZ in Boston (Also left on the same doorstep) only to have to get into a fight Ed Ansin to land WHDH

* Leaving KUTV 2 in Salt Lake City (For some UNGODLY reason which I think people are STILL trying to figure out to this day) to fight with The Mormons every time they aired something controversial because The Church owns KSL 5 (Whom CBS left because they got tired of fighting them)

I think if NBC had Tunnelvision back in 1995, they would've balked at that deal & left CBS (Who was the sucky network at the time) to swim its own way out of the mess they made or sink in it

JMO though.....

Cheers & 73 ;D

 

[kenglish]

The reason for the KUTV/KSL swap in Salt Lake was because CBS bought KUTV. Would've been awkward for a CBS O&O to be an NBC affiliate. ;D

 

[Joseph_Gallant]

NBC Affiliation Swaps (Was: Re: Univision buries NBC to FIFTH PLACE!!!!!!)

* Dumping of O&O WBZ in Boston (Also left on the same doorstep) only to have to get into a fight Ed Ansin to land WHDH.

WBZ-4 was never an NBC O&O. Until 1995, it was owned by Group W/Westinghouse, which had launched the station in 1948.

However, it did have a relationship with that network going back to the dawn of the company.

WBZ Radio was a charter member of NBC's "Blue" Network, and for a time in the 1930's was operated and managed (but not owned) by NBC. But that agreement lapsed quite a few years before WBZ-TV's first test pattern popped up on a small number of Boston-area TV sets.

When NBC was forced to divest itself of one of it's two networks in 1942 to comply with Federal anti-trust rulings, NBC kept the "Red", and flipped WBZ to the "Red" (which became NBC's only radio network).

Because of that close relationship, WBZ-TV became an NBC affiliate upon it's launch (although it did carry a few ABC and DuMont shows at the start, which WNAC-7---a CBSD primary affiliate in the early days---also did).

After Fox poached several CBS stations (mostly in NFL cities) in 1994, Westinghouse (whose KDKA-2 Pittsburgh and KPIX-5 San Francisco/Oakland were longtime CBS affiliates) agreed to invest and then buy-out CBS.

That forced the other Group W stations (WBZ, KYW-3 Philadelphia and WJZ-13 Baltimore) to become CBS affiliates.

 

[JeeperOne]

The reason for the KUTV/KSL swap in Salt Lake was because CBS bought KUTV. Would've been awkward for a CBS O&O to be an NBC affiliate. ;D

Did you READ the ENTIRE post or just wanted to read ?? :

The reason why they bought KUTV is because they got tired of fighting with The Mormons on everything ranging from controversial programming decisions to pre-emptions to non-clearances. That was point I was making. Where do you see in my post about CBS wanting to buy KUTV BUT keep it as an NBC affiliate ???

Cheers & 73 ;D

 

[JeeperOne]

Re: NBC Affiliation Swaps (Was: Re: Univision buries NBC to FIFTH PLACE!!!!!!)

* Dumping of O&O WBZ in Boston (Also left on the same doorstep) only to have to get into a fight Ed Ansin to land WHDH.

WBZ-4 was never an NBC O&O. Until 1995, it was owned by Group W/Westinghouse, which had launched the station in 1948.

OK so WBZ was more of an affiliate rather than an O&O

Still though, NBC could've bought WBZ outright, thus forcing CBS to remain with WHDH (Even if they had to buy the station outright to do so) OR risk losing it to Fox (As either a Fox affiliate ala WSVN or as a Fox O&O) & dropping all the way down to WFXT 25 (Something they knew they could ill-afford to do if they wanted to lure the NFL back)

Cheers & 73 ;D

 

[mjlarochelle]

Unfortunately....Univision News Sucks.....their local news tends to be more of public advocacy when it comes to finding social services, while their national news tends to be biased about immigrant issues in the United States. However, they are very good when it comes to reporting International news.

Sounds like Televisa in Mexico as well (which has an ownership stake in Univision, if I recall correctly). During my stint working in Mexico City last year, I noticed that virtually all news about the United States was related to immigration. They had almost nightly coverage of the U.S. election campaign, but it was almost completely fixated on immigration issues. I can remember only two non-immigration stories in the six months I was there: Mike Wallace's death (which I was surprised to see them cover with a in-depth report), and the Aurora, CO movie theatre shootings.

I have never watched Univision, but if it's like Televisa's coverage of U.S. news, you'd never know about the economic problems that have faced the United States over the past five years. Their international coverage is pretty good, I'd say they do more coverage of the economic problems in Europe and the conflict in Syria than some U.S. news channels do.

 

[Markxxx]

But wasn't the main reason for the Miami swap, (and the subsequent swaps in Denver and SLC) so that NBC could keep a VHF in Philly? I thought FOX made a major effort to get channel 10 in Philadelphia, so NBC agreed to swapping all that Miami, Denver and SLC to get a VHF in Philadelphia.

 

[JeeperOne]

But wasn't the main reason for the Miami swap, (and the subsequent swaps in Denver and SLC) so that NBC could keep a VHF in Philly? I thought FOX made a major effort to get channel 10 in Philadelphia, so NBC agreed to swapping all that Miami, Denver and SLC to get a VHF in Philadelphia.

That wouldn't have mattered (Unless Fox decided to unload WTXF 29 to move up the dial) because when the dust finally settled, NBC still landed on a VHF - WCAU 10 (The station CBS owned at the time)

Miami was just to clear up the mess with NBC owning WFOR despite it being a CBS affiliate while NBC was (And still is today) on WTVJ 6 (Anyone remember that mess?). I think KCNC 4 & KUTV 2 were thrown in to sweeten the pot (Not that CBS needed it, especially in SLC where they were all too eager to get off Mormon Church owned KSL 5, but it helped ;D )

Cheers & 73 ;D

 

[JayR]

But wasn't the main reason for the Miami swap, (and the subsequent swaps in Denver and SLC) so that NBC could keep a VHF in Philly? I thought FOX made a major effort to get channel 10 in Philadelphia, so NBC agreed to swapping all that Miami, Denver and SLC to get a VHF in Philadelphia.

That wouldn't have mattered (Unless Fox decided to unload WTXF 29 to move up the dial) because when the dust finally settled, NBC still landed on a VHF - WCAU 10 (The station CBS owned at the time)

Miami was just to clear up the mess with NBC owning WFOR despite it being a CBS affiliate while NBC was (And still is today) on WTVJ 6 (Anyone remember that mess?).

Actually, NBC purchased WTVJ Channel 4 when it was still a CBS affiliate. The NBC affiliation was on WSVN Channel 7. CBS purchased WCIX Channel 6 and moved the network there. CBS and NBC swapped licenses years later, moving CBS O&O WCIX to channel 4, becoming WFOR; NBC O&O WTVJ moved to channel 6.

 

[azumanga]

NBC purchased WTVJ Channel 4 when it was still a CBS affiliate. The NBC affiliation was on WSVN Channel 7. CBS purchased WCIX Channel 6 and moved the network there.

...with the then-new Fox network, which was still quite-struggling, moving from WCIX to WSVN. Of course, WSVN would end up coming out as victors, as Fox became more successful and the station started to take a tabloid approach with its news.

 

[Kent]

The reason for the KUTV/KSL swap in Salt Lake was because CBS bought KUTV. Would've been awkward for a CBS O&O to be an NBC affiliate. ;D

As others have pointed out, KUTV was thrown in as part of the KCNC/WTVJ 4 swap for WCAU-TV. KYW-TV had long been the NBC affiliate in Philly, but they were owned by Westinghouse, who bought CBS. So, NBC swapped away Salt Lake City and Denver plus traded WTVJ for WCIX in Miami. In return, NBC got WCAU-TV.

From what I've heard, operating a network affiliate in the Mountain Time Zone has always been difficult because there was no "Mountain" feed from the networks. That may have changed since HDTV, but all the Mountain Time Zone network affiliates had to tape delay their material. So, NBC no longer had to worry about what to do for its own stations in Mountain Time.

 

[azumanga]

From what I've heard, operating a network affiliate in the Mountain Time Zone has always been difficult because there was no "Mountain" feed from the networks. That may have changed since HDTV, but all the Mountain Time Zone network affiliates had to tape delay their material. So, NBC no longer had to worry about what to do for its own stations in Mountain Time.

During the 1990s, NBC started a permanent live Mountain Time feed for its affiliates there. Don't know about the other three, though some would provide a special feed for Mountain Time affiliates if a program has been pre-empted or interrupted on the Eastern feed for news or sports coverage.

 

[kenglish]

The reason for the KUTV/KSL swap in Salt Lake was because CBS bought KUTV. Would've been awkward for a CBS O&O to be an NBC affiliate. ;D

Did you READ the ENTIRE post or just wanted to read ?? :

The reason why they bought KUTV is because they got tired of fighting with The Mormons on everything ranging from controversial programming decisions to pre-emptions to non-clearances. That was point I was making. Where do you see in my post about CBS wanting to buy KUTV BUT keep it as an NBC affiliate ???

Cheers & 73 ;D

I didn't say that YOU said CBS would want to keep it as an NBC affiliate...just saying that they really had to change it to CBS.
CBS did not have any major issues with KSL preempting programming, as long as CBS got a strong local affiliate with a great news department.

 

[fybush]

Interesting bit of historical revisionism going on here, Pat.

As kenglish correctly recalls, CBS didn't buy KUTV to get a more cooperative outlet in Salt Lake. Even with the preemptions, CBS still benefited immensely from being on what was then by far the top-rated station in the market.

CBS bought KUTV and KCNC to make the books balance as part of its initial joint venture with Westinghouse. It's not widely remembered now, but before Westinghouse bought CBS outright later in 1994, the two companies announced a deal to work together to jointly buy stations that would be operated by Westinghouse as CBS affiliates. The fallout from that deal included an affiliation change in Philadelphia (Westinghouse's KYW-TV 3 from NBC to CBS) that triggered a set of station swaps with NBC. NBC got former CBS O&O WCAU in Philadelphia, and because it's always in the best interest of big corporations like this to do tax-advantaged swaps instead of heavily-taxed cash deals, CBS ended up with several former NBC-owned stations, including the channel 4 facility in Miami and...yup, KCNC and KUTV.

I was there, working for Westinghouse, when the deal went down. Somewhere upstairs I still have the memos. It had nothing at all to do with KSL-TV preemptions.

 

[Markxxx]

But wasn't the main reason for the Miami swap, (and the subsequent swaps in Denver and SLC) so that NBC could keep a VHF in Philly? I thought FOX made a major effort to get channel 10 in Philadelphia, so NBC agreed to swapping all that Miami, Denver and SLC to get a VHF in Philadelphia.

That wouldn't have mattered (Unless Fox decided to unload WTXF 29 to move up the dial) because when the dust finally settled, NBC still landed on a VHF - WCAU 10 (The station CBS owned at the time)
Cheers & 73 ;D

But if FOX had gotten a VHF then NBC would have had no reason to trade in Miami, SLC and Denver. And NBC would've been weaker in the 4th largest market. Look at the steps ABC made to stay on VHF in Detroit and Cleveland, which were smaller markets.

 

[ding12]

But wasn't the main reason for the Miami swap, (and the subsequent swaps in Denver and SLC) so that NBC could keep a VHF in Philly? I thought FOX made a major effort to get channel 10 in Philadelphia, so NBC agreed to swapping all that Miami, Denver and SLC to get a VHF in Philadelphia.

That wouldn't have mattered (Unless Fox decided to unload WTXF 29 to move up the dial) because when the dust finally settled, NBC still landed on a VHF - WCAU 10 (The station CBS owned at the time)
Cheers & 73 ;D

But if FOX had gotten a VHF then NBC would have had no reason to trade in Miami, SLC and Denver. And NBC would've been weaker in the 4th largest market. Look at the steps ABC made to stay on VHF in Detroit and Cleveland, which were smaller markets.

Yes, there used to be a stigma being on UHF, and having lesser desirable cable positioning and channel branding.

Also, electric bills were higher on UHF. But stations like WPHL and WTXF operated at maximum, so the signals could already be seen in outlying areas like Princeton to New Brunswick, NJ, or maybe Lancaster. The region is flat.

Had Fox gotten Ch.10, Fox would have done the 5pm/6pm newscast much earlier on. Had NBC gotten Ch.17 or Ch.29, maybe it wouldn't be as strong with overpaid news anchors, but at this point, 2013, they would probably be the same place. But NBC likely feared the growth of Fox.

Anyways on the comment if NBC does better in NE, I think so, or atleast in Philly, the Hispanic population is a lot less, so relative to Univision and Telemundo, it'd be in the top 4. Telemundo broadcasts from an Atlantic City licensed station that cannot be easily received over the air in the core Philly MSA or the Lehigh Valley area at all.