Unusual daytime AM reception in Chicago

[MichaelTheZ]

Hi

First a little background. Growing up in California in the 1980s I used to DX on AM and SW for fun. For whatever reason I recently started trying to get distant AM radio stations in the car, especially when driving on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago, which for those of you who aren't from the area is a highway that just goes up and down the shore of Lake Michigan in Chicago, as might be surmised from the name.

I've noticed that one gets best results for stations in the NE to SE quadrant, but today was ridiculous. In a relatively short amount of time (maybe 20 minutes), listening around noon, I was able to identify WHKW AM-1220 in Cleveland (over 300 miles away) and received an Indian/Pakistani language AM broadcast on 1650 AM which seems to have had to be CINA in Mississauga, Ontario (over 400 miles away) due to the lack of any other non-English stations on that frequency and the rarity of broadcasts in that language. I also got what sounded like a Spanish-language broadcast on 1610 AM, and an online search reveals that there is a Spanish station on that frequency in the Toronto area and no stations on that frequency in the US other than public service announcement stations. The best daytime results I had gotten before today were from Cincinnati (about 250 miles away), and in California I never got this kind of distance during the daylight hours.

So my questions for you are... how rare is it to be able to get such distant stations on a simple car radio in the middle of the day? How can you tell when conditions are ripe for such reception? Also, what is it about the easterly direction here that seems to be so conducive for AM radio reception? I realize there is some water along the route, but there is also plenty of land.

 

[schmave]

The only thing I can add is this sounds like a classic case of winter daytime skywave. Such reception is not at all unheard of in this part of the country at this time of year, when the days are so short and the angle of the sun is quite low. Were you hearing much else on the upper part of the band today?
If it was skywave, the terrain to your east really wouldn't matter. There are some areas of poor conductivity across the lake in southeast Michigan, but very good conductivity south of there in Indiana and into the western half of Ohio. I have personally heard that affect groundwave coverage of Chicago stations, positively and negatively, in Ohio and into Michigan.
As far as skywave, I've heard WMVP from Chicago here in Ohio as early as 3 p.m., so only 2 p.m. there, in December and January. I don't listen much to stations in the far part of the upper band but something like Chicago's WVON (1690) might be audible in Ohio almost all day at this time of year with the possible exception of the absolute middle of the day.

 

[crainbebo]

I think this year has been very good for daytime reception. Every day I'm getting central CA all day. 1570 KCVR Lodi is all alone, all day long with ESPN Deportes. Some days, the east will propagate quite well. KSL, CBK, even KUYO-830, in during solar noon, poor to fair at times. This year I broke my 'farthest daytime DX' record, with CJRB-1220 Boissevain MB (967 miles) about a week ago around 1PM local. I've heard CBW at 2PM!! But that doesn't count because it's not in the '11am-2pm' timeslot where the sun is at its highest peak.

 

[gr8oldies]

The Extended band (1610-1700) is very likely to be open all day this time of year. It's also possible to have daytime skip throughout the band. I've received WBZ from western Ohio at noon, KXEL, WHO and others. Madison, WI and the 2 Michigan stations on the X-band would stay in all day in Dayton, OH and so would WYLL over Newport, KY's 1160.

 

[MichaelTheZ]

Thanks for the responses so far. Sounds like then that this phenomenon is not terribly uncommon this time of year. What I found most interesting is that the distant stations were all in a similar direction from where I was. There was also another one I didn't mention before, 1400 AM WSJM St Joseph, Michigan. Usually the signal is weak and alternates with WRJN in Racine WI but today it was quite strong, like a local station, despite being only 880 watts and located across Lake Michigan. And it too is in the same direction as the other more distant stations.

 

[cyberdad]

The only thing I can add is this sounds like a classic case of winter daytime skywave. Such reception is not at all unheard of in this part of the country at this time of year, when the days are so short and the angle of the sun is quite low. .

Welcome to the board, Michael. There's your answer to what's going on right there. We're currently in "prime time" on the calendar for daytime skywave. As to how far away can this type of reception be, I can only speak for myself. In my experience, the longest distance I've encountered was WWL (870) from New Orleans at "high noon" one winter day in Rock Island, IL. Distance was about 800 miles.

The general rule of thumb is that daytime skywave is most common in winter and also most common on the upper part of the broadcast band. The upper part of the band is the area where the AM broadcast band starts taking on some of the characteristics of shortwave. It's worth noting however that daytime skywave on the AM broadcast band can take place anywhere on the dial and at any time of the year. I once heard WMAQ (670...now WSCR) at around 10:30 am one summer morning in northwest Minnesota. That's about 500 miles. So anything can happen, but you're far more likely to encounter the phenomenon in winter and on the top end of the band.

 

[semoochie]

I also used to get nearly nighttime reception on a very cloudy day, where the sky is quite dark. KGO or KNBR would bounce into Portland around noon. That's about 650 miles. Oh, by the way, a total eclipse causes nighttime reception.

 

[gr8oldies]

Winter skip has nothing to do with cloudy days. Some of the best I've ever received was on perfectly clear and sunny winter days. It's all about the low sun angle in the winter.

 

[schmave]

I also used to get nearly nighttime reception on a very cloudy day, where the sky is quite dark. KGO or KNBR would bounce into Portland around noon. That's about 650 miles. Oh, by the way, a total eclipse causes nighttime reception.

I was pretty disappointed in August 2017 when Columbus was barely on the edge of that big solar eclipse. You could tell there was activity in the upper part of the band but the effect was minimal. Not even WLAC was coming through, and that would seem like a prime candidate to get out during an eclipse considering Nashville was in near total darkness.

 

[radioman148]

Regarding the Lake Shore Drive phenomenon in Chicago, I used to notice that when driving along the drive during mid day almost any time of the year there were certain spots where the concrete jungle would null the local stations. There were one or two spots in particular where I could hear WSGW Saginaw, Mi because WBBM would be in a null during the day.
Also, now is prime time for daytime skywave and as others have pointed out it’s been very good this season.

 

[MichaelTheZ]

Regarding the Lake Shore Drive phenomenon in Chicago, I used to notice that when driving along the drive during mid day almost any time of the year there were certain spots where the concrete jungle would null the local stations. There were one or two spots in particular where I could hear WSGW Saginaw, Mi because WBBM would be in a null during the day.
Also, now is prime time for daytime skywave and as others have pointed out it’s been very good this season.

I do think the blocking effect of the tall buildings was playing a role, and also explains why the distant stations I was hearing were all in a general easterly direction. For 1650 for example, there is a 10KW station in eastern Iowa (KCNZ) which one might expect would override CINA in the Toronto area. But I didn't hear any interference, and on the other days I tried 1650 I didn't hear anything at all on that frequency. And the moment I exit Lake Shore Drive the overall reception declines. Even away from tall buildings I hear a lot less. It's funny how much interference comes from all the devices in the tall apartment buildings... I'll often hear a big *SWOOSH* of static as I drive by.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

WSGW is the equivalent of a Class B (282) 17 kW in that direction. So you might get it better during CH. Also, WILS is now 25 kW Day directed West, close to 50 kW Class B (282) equivalent. Try that in CH, it might overpower Kankakee.

 

[MichaelTheZ]

followup

So curiosity got the better of me and I decided to just park at the lakefront and see what I could get. This was about an hour before sunset today. There were several new stations in the same general direction:

610 WTVN Columbus, Ohio
800 AM CKLW Windsor, Ontario
1070 AM CHOK Sarnia, Ontario
1310 CIWW Ottawa, Ontario
1580 CKDO Oshawa, Ontario

The distances were increasing as the frequency increased. The last two stations are about 650 miles away from me. I get the sense they are about as far as I'm going to get during the daytime here as they were both fading in and out and I had to listen for a while to get an ID. So it seems like the combination of low sun angle, blocking effect of the Chicago lakeside highrises, and the good path in the ENE direction actually makes this sort of reception pretty normal.

 

[schmave]

Nice catches! I've personally never heard WTVN (a hometown station for me) that far northwest. Farthest I've ever heard it is about Remington, Indiana, and after that it fades out. That said, the times I've tried have been during the afternoon when I've been driving to Chicago, and by the time I get up there I don't get a chance to DX much. I am assuming you caught both WTVN and CKLW while they were still on their day patterns.
CKLW sends very little signal to the west at night, and WTVN currently is operating with 1,250 watts omnidirectional at night (5,000 omni daytime) while they wait for one of the towers in their nighttime array to be fixed. It went down in a storm last April. Normal pattern shoots a powerful lobe straight north toward Toledo and Detroit (roughly 20K ERP) ... but you might be able to catch a bit of that at night in Chicago. Again, I've never had the chance to try. I assume you'd hear Kansas City at night on 610 up there.

 

[cyberdad]

So curiosity got the better of me and I decided to just park at the lakefront and see what I could get. This was about an hour before sunset today. There were several new stations in the same general direction:

610 WTVN Columbus, Ohio
800 AM CKLW Windsor, Ontario
1070 AM CHOK Sarnia, Ontario
1310 CIWW Ottawa, Ontario
1580 CKDO Oshawa, Ontario

I hear all of these on a regular or semi-regular basis at my location about 40 miles northwest of downtown Chicago. With the exception of WTVN. I didn't know about the 1.25kw STA, so that means now would be a good time for me to try for it.

As scchmave surmised, KCSP rules 610 around here at night. CHOK has been "among the missing" here as of late, but I heard it just this morning (under KHMO). And a note on CKLW.... Indeed they don't send much juice in my direction at night, but they do have a small lobe that goes to the west-southwest. Where I am, CKLW is weak but fairly reliable. But in downstate Illinois, the signal is better. If Rich is lurking on this thread, he can confirm that.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

In my area, I get WIP, "ha!, said Google, it's WTEL now, made you look!", on 610 at Night. WTVN is good until around 5:30 PM this month, on GW.