Update: Final Approval Given For Yucaipa Antenna Site

[RicoGregg]

A victory for Lazer Broadcasting:

http://www.sbsun.com/letters/ci_22074394

 

[Neel]

Is that for 105.7 I wonder... won't that cause interference to 105.9?

 

[jonbruce]

This station started out in the 1960's at 105.5 and moved in the early 1980's to 105.7 at a then new transmitter site for spacing reasons. Now it is "back home" on 105.5 at it's new site, fully spaced from 105.9.

 

[36james]

Hey Jon
would this interfer with 105.5 in big bea kwbb? I know they were fighting a spanish brodcaster a few years back, an what about 101.7 fm isn't that Lazer as well? And will they shut down that signal or sell it?

 

[jonbruce]

On first glance it does not look like the Big Bear LPFM is in the protected contour of the "new" Hemet 105.5. In real world coverage it might get hammered. In that event it would have to find a new frequency if there is one usable. Being a secondary service it might be forced to go off.

 

[semoochie]

In researching this topic, I came upon the antenna information for KSSE. Not being a resident of LA, I was surprised not only that this Class A seems to cover almost all of the city and its environs but doesn't seem to be very far from a second adjacent station on Mt. Wilson. Since KSSE doesn't appear to be grandfathered, I'm curious as to how this came about.

 

[davideduardo]

In researching this topic, I came upon the antenna information for KSSE. Not being a resident of LA, I was surprised not only that this Class A seems to cover almost all of the city and its environs but doesn't seem to be very far from a second adjacent station on Mt. Wilson. Since KSSE doesn't appear to be grandfathered, I'm curious as to how this came about.

KSSE puts a "usable" 65 dbu signal over almost exactly 8 million people. KIIS, one of the lowest powered Mt Wilson signals, gets over 13 million in its 65 dbu, and superpowered KBIG gets nearly 17 million. So KSSE does not adequately cover the LA market, which is roughly 13 million.

IIRC, this one began life as KMAX-Sierra Madre in 1960. Hopefully, Scott Fybush will jump in and explain, but there are a bunch of short spacings and grandfathered high powers that predate the current rules and separation requirements.

What KSSE has done is move up the hill, but it is still at an average elevation that is under the maximum for its class.

 

[semoochie]

Thank you, yes, it's being up in the mountains that does the trick. They could add another hundred meters and still not be at maximum for a Class A. I figured it had to be a fairly new station because it's 6KW and most border area stations weren't able to do that because of spacing issues.

 

[davideduardo]

Thank you, yes, it's being up in the mountains that does the trick. They could add another hundred meters and still not be at maximum for a Class A. I figured it had to be a fairly new station because it's 6KW and most border area stations weren't able to do that because of spacing issues.

A friend did some searching of the FCC data and listings in Broadcasting and Broadcasting Yearbook and he wrote this to me:

"KMAX changed COL from Sierra Madre to Arcadia in 1969, along with changes in studio and transmitter locations, antenna system, etc.:
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-BC-IDX/69-OCR/1969-10-13-BC-0082.pdf#search="kmax"

Pre-1969, they were listed as antenna height of minus 700 feet (1967 Yearbook listing) and afterwards at minus 240 feet (1970 Yearbook). They had also gone from 850 watts at original sign on in 1960 (1964 Yearbook) to 3kW within a few years (1967 Yearbook).

There is also an article from 1961 in which an ALJ recommended against 107.5 (then KBBI) being granted a power increase because of KMAX, but that apparently went through anyway (the article notes that the Broadcast Bureau disagreed):
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-BC-IDX/61-OCR/1961-07-17-BC-0060.pdf#search="kmax"

I'm guessing that KMAX was on Wilson from the start (or moved there in the subsequent CP) and went to full Class A power there before KBBI was allowed its increase in ERP ... or perhaps as a condition of the 107.5 increase. The HAAT appears to have been calculated on the terrain on Wilson itself.

All the listings for KLYY on 107.1 (before Entravision moved the calls to 97.5 Riverside) show it stuck at the 3kW power level, all the way through the KSSE listing in 2009's Yearbook, so whatever logic was used to allow them full Class A status on Wilson, it's grandfathered and they were not allowed to go to 6kW later."

I can only add that I think the location of the site may technically be on the side of Mt Harvard and not Wilson, but from a distance, it all looks the same. Since HAAT calculations are based on an average of elevations around a site, it's possible to be -2500 feet on one group of radials and +2500 feet on others and come out with an HAAT of 0 feet.

 

[fybush]

Because 107.1 at Sierra Madre was in place before the 1964 spacing rules went into effect, it's grandfathered with respect to KROQ and KLVE. If spacing to those two stations were the only issue, KSSE could go all the way up to the top of Wilson, or to the Verdugo KROQ site. And if memory serves, there was a period when KSSE was indeed operating from the top of Wilson with very limited power (50 watts ERP or so?) under STA after a fire at its licensed site.

There are other issues at play, too, though. IF spacing restricts how close KSSE can get to stations on 96.3 and 96.5, which means it can't actually go up on Verdugo with KROQ and KXOL. The need to provide city-grade coverage of all of Arcadia might be an issue from Verdugo as well.

Then you have spacing issues to other stations on 107.1 in Fallbrook and Ventura. I think (but don't recall with certainty) that KSSE's increase from 3 kW to 6 kW was part of a coordinated set of moves and power upgrades implemented by Big City when it owned all three 107.1 signals.

The KSSE licensed site isn't on Wilson or Harvard. It's much, much lower (1800' or so AMSL instead of 5700' for Wilson), down in the foothills above Sierra Madre and Arcadia. There's an on-channel booster in the Hollywood Hills that squirts an additional 107.1 signal out over Burbank and the San Fernando Valley, an area that would otherwise be completely terrain-blocked to KSSE.

 

[jonbruce]

A check on the FCC site's LPFM freq. finder for the site of the 105.5 Big Bear shows 94.1 and 94.5 are clear there.

 

[Engineer]

107.1/Arcadia's site is below average terrain but 2000' above sea level. It sits on a ridge in the foothills with a large peak behind it, so the HAAT calcs take the higher terrain into account. It has a clear shot to a large amount of the LA basin.

The first tower at the Chantry Flats site was right next to the transmitter building. If you zoom in on Google Earth, the transmitter building is across the parking lot from an old AT&T tower, but it's hidden by a tree. This was a short monopole. Some time in the 80s the tower was moved up the ridgeline, but the transmitter building stayed where it was. The current tower is a 140' monopole. Theoretically a much taller tower could be constructed, but getting Forest Service approval for this probably wouldn't happen as it would require lighting. Also, building something that meets current structural codes while straddling a narrow ridge would be difficult. There is another comm site up at the top of the ridge but moving up there changes the HAAT calcs and results in very low ERP.

The ERP was increased from 3kW to 6kW at the Arcadia site by Big City. The tower in its current location is shadowed to the west by Flint Peak and the Verdugos, which is why there have been boosters used to fill in. I believe the original booster was at Briarcrest. Big City moved it to the DIC Building at 303 Glenoaks in Burbank with 1.2kW, 800W pointing west into the San Fernando Valley and 400W pointing east at Glendale. Big City had a CP to move the booster to a City of Burbank comm site at a reservoir above the city but it expired unbuilt. Entravision relocated the booster to another site in the Hollywood Hills with 18w ERP.

Big City proposed a class upgrade from A to B1 under an interpretation of the pre-1964 short-spacing rules. To accomplish this, the Ventura signal was moved west from Willis Peak to Red Mountain and a channel change at Fallbrook was proposed, along with a change in the allotment reference coordinates at Arcadia. The FCC denied this and stated that the pre-1964 grandfathering rules do not permit changes in class. This application resulted in the new 104.1 allotment at Murrieta (Fallbrook/Temecula).

It did indeed operate under STA from the KCAL tower on Wilson after a fire burned the power and telco lines to the transmitter site.

 

[semoochie]

Thank you gentlemen, that's fascinating! I knew there had to be a great story behind this!