Upper Demo Gold

[Radknowski]

The aging population could shift popular radio demo.
Radio has traditionally been bought by advertisers using demo's like 18-34, 18-49 and the most popular demo, 25-54. But what do 25-year-olds have in common with 54-year-olds? The aging of America might even move the target demo higher since a Media Audit study shows people over 50 have more disposable income. So where's the demo "sweet spot"?

We've tossed the "upper demo-baby boomer" topic around many times on this board, which might indicate some of us are ahead of the curve and actually do know what we're talking about or that we're simply defending our own demographic turf.

The line, "But what do 25-year-olds have in common with 54-year-olds?" seems especially significant as it might be applied to Buffalo and Rochester (as well as most upstate NY cities) where the population is aging and 35-64, 35-54 is an especially large target (and not necessarily because of expanding waistlines or butts.)

Could the pronouncement from Inside Radio mean that group owners are re-awakening to the aroma of money-flavored coffee and value of formats that target 35-54 or 35-64 year olds?

Seems to me Rochester posters are paying some attention (for better or worse) to Legends in that city and a number of posters have citied the absence of a radio station that offers a format of Oldies-Standards-Classic Hits in Buffalo.

Could it be that more groups are closely looking at the economy, the audience trends and available listeners and re-thinking their decisions about format changes, the best example being Jack-CBS-FM New York.

I'd be willing to bet an interior paint-job (living-dining-family-kitchen) that Stephens would attract a good number of ears if it flipped Fickle or Zone to Oldies-Classic Hits.

 

[scooterodell]

It's one thing to attract the demo. It's another thing to sell it. As long as ad agencies are staffed by people who can't see the value of a consumer over age 54, stations that target the older demos will continue to have trouble sticking around.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

In the 1970's I lived in Fort Lauderdale and worked for WFTL 1400. Our format was MOR not quite A/C and the target demo was 35+. The station made lots of money and paid us well. There was a large news department, staffed with vetran professionals. I think the station sold through agancies but also did a lot of direct selling. The downfall of the station came when the ARB went to a combined Miami-Fort Lauderdale book and the rising popularity of FM.

We had a loyal audience who enjoyed personality radio and information. The inside joke was we didn't worry about listners tuning to other stations, we worried about them dying off.

I think every age group should have a radio station they can listen to. My problem is I'd enjoy a station like WFTL today but they are getting hard to find.

 

[Buehly]

What is really shortsighted is the fact that Buffalo IS an "older" metro. There is little in the way of music on the radio that appeals or is targeted to people over the age of 55. And 55 is not that old! Gone are 50s-60s Oldies. Gone are Standards. This market is missing the boat and missing serving the upper end of the baby boomer generation.

Fact is, this is less about worrying about agencies and young media buyers. These (older) stations can still pull numbers in Buffalo (see CHWO 740). It amounts to hiring veteran salespeople work on direct local business. There won't be big national or agency dollars. That's okay. Prospecting comes from church bulletins and community newspapers such as the Bee group of papers. Heck, get Larry Levite to do a joint sales agreement with Buffalo Spree or another WNY publication. You could form a sales alliance with the Bee group, for example.

There are plenty of dollars in the market. It is just that radio sales don't work for an older demo station using the traditional avail-driven, Arbitron-dependent system that everyone lazily follows. Stop at any gas station or supermarket and look at all the printed material. There are many leads there. Put oldies or standards on any of the following stations (or others) and you will turn a tidy profit: WHLD, WJJL, WWWS, etc. All you need is ONE personality in the AM and music all day (possibly satellite fed) without a lot of talk.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

All you need is ONE personality in the AM and music all day (possibly satellite fed) without a lot of talk.

No. I disagree.
You also need a voice for mid day and afternoon dirive, along with an evening announcer that can also do a local news report if needed.

It's not in my best interest to say this, but yes it can work, even if the only live shift is the morning.

I'd much prefer to see a live shift in both morning and afternoon drive though. (at least)

It would be nice to have a live overnight shift too, but that's just not going to happen.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

As a music jock it's funny that I would say this but you need a good agressive news department. You need to make it sound BIG and Bold. There should be enough humgry news hounds out there wanting to scoop WBEN and the TV stations.

Most of all you have to staff all departments with people who believe in what the station is doing, people who want to win by doing something different.

As WKBW used to say "Buffalo A Friendly Place" you need to get out and talk to the people. Make it their radio station!

 

[Paul_Warren]

One reason older demos drift away from radio is that it no longer provides good company. It's not a listener expectation in many formats today, but it is absolutely an expectation that goes with formats like oldies and standards. The human touch would be an important element in maximizing the potential of these formats. You'll be reaching demos that remember John Corbett's "Car and Kitchen" PM Drive show on WBEN.

In fact, in Buffalo, Jim Schulke advised McCormick that then-WBNY needed live announcers 24/7 for his Beautiful Music format, even when he was suggesting automation outside morning drive in other markets.

WBNY being live/local 24/7 is the reason I got my first part-time job there in 1975, doing weekend overnights. And, before you laugh, does anyone remember the Arbitron 12+ rank held by both WBNY in Buffalo and WEZO in Rochester when they made their respective switches to A/C?

 

[Yeziknoradio]

How about bringing back "Back seat memories"
It was actually a Rochester thing, (early 90's) on the old WKLX, and it ran in the late evening time, but it was still a nice touch that made a world of difference...and it was LOCAL!

They took calls, and requests, and everything sounded great.

 

[AndrewLawson]

Radio has always worked best when personalities and even liner reading d-j's were given the opportunity to established a relationship with listeners. This is especially true in Buffalo. Take WYSL and Kevin O'Connell for example. Kevin wasn't the "big" personality that Sandy Beach or Jack Armstrong was, but he established a relationship with listeners. Seems everybody knew him. It didn't hurt that he was the son of a well-known Buffalo politician. Kevin played to his strengths: He was friendly, knew Buffalo and was quick with an O'Liner. He also had that famous Buffalo accent (highlighted by the flat 'a' and the frequent splitting one syllable words into two syllables.) Paul Warren makes a good point. Listeners like radio and they're likely to develop a bond with personalities who can keep them company, whether the listener is 38 or 78.

It's easy for PDs and GMs to say "shut up and play the music." It doesn't take much for a PD to press a button on a computer and spit out a day's music playlist. But developing and coaching air talent is a different story. It takes time, talent and knowledge to know how to inspire and motivate your d-j's, whether it's the morning guy or the weekend guy (I was about to write "the weekend overnight guy," but radio doesn't have "weekend overnight guys or ladies" these days.) PDs, GMs and owners should be able to understand the value of live personalities. The listeners seem to.

 

[Mark Giardina]

Consultants don’t think that we “baby boomers” matter, thus we are bombarded with a series of radio stations designed for younger demographics.

Yes I remember WEZO’s format back in the 80s, because I worked at the station and it not only had listeners (number #1 in the market for a number of years) but made money. What killed WEZO wasn’t that the audience was dying off, but a general manager who decided to copy WVOR, but didn’t have the deep pockets to pull it off. Her idea was to move the easy-listening format to AM and try to copy VOR; which proved, at the time, to be a huge mistake.

* Ironically WEZO-FM became WRMM radio and eventually did beat out WVOR in the ratings. But with the demise of the Tony and Dee show, and VOR’s poor showing in the books, one has to wonder who really won the ratings war?

Anyways I find it interesting that while stations are going after a generation that really doesn’t listen to the radio, my generation is being ignored. Apparently consultants don’t think we spend money. Tell that to my bank account having just had a new roof installed on my house; and am in the process of buying a new car for my wife.

I find myself listening to Legends 102 on my work computer because it’s the only station that plays music I enjoy and has live announcers. As the late Jack Slattery once told me “people listen to the radio to hear a friend.” My only complaint with Legends is the lack of local news and the repetition of their music.

 

[Philip_Airtime]

!

This thread reinforces the argument that I've made before. The paradigm of media buyers buying 25 - 54 will have to be adjusted as the baby boomers age. The old rules won't apply ten years from now. Say what you will. But advertisers will need another way of reaching 25-year-olds. Many aren't listening to the radio. That doesn't bode well for our industry, but that's another discussion. As we baby-boomers age, radio programmers are going to have to serve us. They should want to because we ARE still listening to the radio. And that means programming music from the 60s, 70s and 80s.

The baby boom generation has always ruled! When we were kids, KB had a 50 share because that's what we listened to. As we became adults, we discovered FM and that's why 97 Rock ruled and still rules. Now, as we enter the 55+ demo, it would be foolish for advertisers not to want to continue reaching us because the experts say we're outside the desired target. Mark my words. Ten years from now, 97 Rock will be airing spots for luxury cars, Viagara and nursing homes. I'll always enjoy rock of the '60s and '70s. Even as a 70 year old, I think I'll enjoy the Beatles, the Stones and Bruce as much as I do today. And I and other boomers will still be tuning into 97 Rock if they're still playing that music. And if they're smart, they will be! It's worked this long. Why change? Sure, many young people dig the Beatles, Stones and Bruce. And hopefully that'll get them to listen to the radio.

But ten years from now, 25 to 54 will no longer be the money demo for radio stations, despite what some of you experts may think. It'll be 35+, the boomer generation! We've been ruling the marketplace since 1946 and will continue to do so. And the industry will need to realize that. I'm not saying there shouldn't be formats for younger people. But the experts say they're getting their music elsewhere. But it's the boomer generation has always listened to the radio and is likely to continue to do so. And "young" media buyers who fail to realize that will be doing a disservice to the businesses they represent.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

Media buyers should be required to read "Who Moved My Cheese".

 

[SirRoxalot]

Golden Years?

I hate to throw a wet blanket on such elegance, but according to the US Census Bureau, the 25-44 age group already is larger than the 45-64 age group.

Each generation gets larger. That's one of the issues in population control. 55+ may be a significant population, but the complaint from advertisers has always been that those people are "set in their ways", and less likely to be swayed by advertising. Not only that, but most folk 55+ already have too much stuff, and are downsizing. They're not buying as many appliances, houses, cars, clothes, gadgets, and household furnishings as the 35-54 age group.

That's not to say that there isn't money to be made from that generation, but both the impact and relative buying power will decline ten years from now.

If 97-Rock is still playing the same songs in 10 years, they'll be getting their ass kicked by somebody who's jamming on 80s, 90s, and early 2000s music. If all they have are 70-year-olds, they'll be in big trouble.

Prepare to relinquish your sceptre and orb. Retirement, fixed incomes, and death will diminish the impact of the "Baby Boomers" just as every other generation has given way to "those darn kids".

 

[Buehly]

After reading these posts, I have to admit they are correct. Being "good company" is important to older demos. That IS why they connect to the radio (yet little of that exists today). You DO need people.

I also think WWKB would be another great place for standards. The liberal talk thing doesn't work. Their electric bill in Hamburg is probably much greater than whatever revenue they produce.

 

[Radknowski]

Hey Rox, what's your signature?

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable. - Mark Twain

You nailed the facts. I guess we're working on the statistics. It seems that Buffalo is "aging out" more broadly and faster than most metro areas of the US. True, 25-44 is larger than 45-64 on a national scale. How about those 35-54s and 35-64s. Buffalo has an abundance of 45-64 year olds last time I got my eyes on an Arbitron, admittedly a while ago. In Erie County, the median age (years) is 39.7. The national median is 36.4. We're a little "top heavy." BTW, since you tipped us off to it, the US Census Bureau site is a treasure trove of statistics and facts. I noticed that 97 Rock seems to be playing more songs from the 60s. Not tons, but more.

 

[caveman-97]

Getting the older demographics to listen is half the game. The other half is getting them to buy the advertisers' products. This is where agencies and copy writers fall flat on their collective faces. The vast majority of radio ads are good for little more than name recognition which is good for the youth market but not nearly as useful for the older listeners. We're all well aware of McDonald's and Ford. Endless screaming of their names won't make us buy them. When's the last time you heard a radio ad that really gave you a good reason to buy something?

Try listening to a typical car ad. Typically it is a shouting match with digital effects and a whole lot of noise in the background. That followed by twenty seconds of legal disclaimers read so fast that nobody could follow it. Probably creates some credibility problems. When you are done hearing it, you haven't received one good reason to buy from that dealership. If you want to find a good deal, you go to the newspaper.

The bottom line on older demographics is that you must get to know your target audience and realize that they aren't teenyboppers. They are mature and often still intelligent. Tell them where they can get real value for their money and they will respond. Your advertisers will make money and so will the radio station, ratings or no ratings. I think that the worst thing that ever happened to advertising is agencies. Many don't know more than their clients know. Making money on the older demos often means bypassing agencies.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

I'm in the "over the hill" demo.

Run a commercial saying that the McRib is back at McDonalds and I'll be right there at the drive thru. It's that simple!

I buy cars too, although not as often as I used to since they are a lot more expensive than they were. I'd be more likely to buy from a dealer I have heard of vs someone I've never heard of. Save the cheesy come on commercials, do something classy, or clever that makes your dealership special rather than the rest which sound like a 3 ring circus.

At last check my money is the same as the average 18-49 year old.