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"Urban" myth or fact?
- Thread starter bucwhyl
- Start date
So the question being asked is:
Do you think another company is thinking about creating a second Urban format station to compete with WBLS in NYC?
And the answer is: that there are probably several broadcasting companies that have thought about the possibilities.
But then we have to remember that Inner City Radio went bankrupt and WRKS was barely making ends meet despite respectable ratings. There may not be enough targeted advertising dollars in the NYC urban radio market for another station to run profitably.
Remember, the business is really about advertising billing, not ratings numbers.
And then you have to wonder which stations might be flipped? WFME is for sale and licensed to Newark, which would make it a possibility, although its signal has more advantages in reaching an upscale suburban audience instead. WPAT, which is owned by Spanish Broadcasting, is not doing that well in the ratings but they, probably, would want to try a different Hispanic-targeted format before going Urban.
If Emmis was thinking about switching WQHT, it would have kept the WRKS intellectual property, and do you think Clear Channel might flip WWPR in an attempt to get an "older" audience???
So, that doesn't leave many other "possible" FM stations to be switched to an Urban format. Cumulus is not likely to give up the "suburban soccer mom" money for urban, and CBS and Clear Channel aren't likely to switch any of their other stations.
Do you think another company is thinking about creating a second Urban format station to compete with WBLS in NYC?
And the answer is: that there are probably several broadcasting companies that have thought about the possibilities.
But then we have to remember that Inner City Radio went bankrupt and WRKS was barely making ends meet despite respectable ratings. There may not be enough targeted advertising dollars in the NYC urban radio market for another station to run profitably.
Remember, the business is really about advertising billing, not ratings numbers.
And then you have to wonder which stations might be flipped? WFME is for sale and licensed to Newark, which would make it a possibility, although its signal has more advantages in reaching an upscale suburban audience instead. WPAT, which is owned by Spanish Broadcasting, is not doing that well in the ratings but they, probably, would want to try a different Hispanic-targeted format before going Urban.
If Emmis was thinking about switching WQHT, it would have kept the WRKS intellectual property, and do you think Clear Channel might flip WWPR in an attempt to get an "older" audience???
So, that doesn't leave many other "possible" FM stations to be switched to an Urban format. Cumulus is not likely to give up the "suburban soccer mom" money for urban, and CBS and Clear Channel aren't likely to switch any of their other stations.
There's no way they'd flip Power to Urban it was there to protect lite fm from hot. plus bls is doing fine we didn't need 2 formats with the same music anyway. much like we don't need now fm and fresh when we have z and plj.
XCountry285 said:
Seems strange NYC cant support 2 Urban Adult stations.
Philadelphia has 5 FM Urban Stations
WDAS-FM (urban adult)
WRNB-FM (urban adult)
WUSL-FM (hip-hop)
WPHI-FM (hip-hop)
WPPZ-FM (black gospel)
And 2 black AM stations
WURD-AM (black talk)
WDAS-AM (urban oldies)
Why is NYC different?
GSP163 said:
That situation is interesting, the new TL is built and tested, but hasn't been licensed by Cumulus. It was rumored that they wouldn't file for a license until the station was sold. It's unclear if the station is still up for sale, but when you've got a debt-load like Cumulus, just about everything's for sale for the right price. The CP is good until July 2014.
XCountry285 said:
Uh, but Power is urban. In the Arbitron data, it is listed as "urban contemporary" and, on average, 70% of its listening is by African Americans; in a market that is 17% Black, that sure sounds like an urban station to me.
You can not flip to something you already are.
And... you do need Now and Z 100 and Fresh and Lite and PLJ. Each serves, to a greater extent, different primary constituencies. And if there is revenue to support them all, they will remain. But, more than that, listeners need options and those options keep stations true and honest and competitive.
What do you think you would be saying about prices, selection, convenient hours and customer service if you could only get all food from one store chain? (Hint: that is how it still is in Cuba and how it was in the Soviet Union.)
DavidEduardo said:
But...we have too many options for a limited selection of music. If you liked burgers and tacos, would you rather have 2 cheap burger joints and have to eat only burgers every day? Or would you rather have 1 burger joint and 1 taco joint...you might pay a little more but at least you would have some variety.
ansky212 said:
You are suggesting a "production driven" system where a wide variety of products are offered in order to keep the factories busy, even if half of them never sell.
A market driven system provides only the goods which have demand in sufficient quantity to at least cover their cost of production and the costs of capital.
If 40% of the radio consumers want a pop / AC variety, then 40% of the "production" (namely, stations) will be directed at them. There will be subsets of the overall pop category. And if only 1% want AAA, and there is no profit to be had at that level of "production" then there will be no AAA product.
This is not about a "limited selection of music" but about the number of consumers who want to hear each possible option and which of those options is economically sustainable.
Urban is a myth it is R&B, Adult R&B, Hip Hop, Adult Hip Hop, Classic Hip Hop, Classic R & B. Urban is what one would describe a city such as NYC as an Urban area.
Mark Jeffries said:
I agree with x Country. Let's call the format what it really is. There are so-called "urban" stations in rural areas of North Carolina, South Carolina, Alabama, and Mississippi. Meanwhile there are many listeners in cities like NY who never once listen to an "Urban" station,
"Urban" is just a code word for Black, and it's sad that advertisers shy away from listeners based on color.
XCountry285 said:
As someone who started his career at legendary R&B station WJMO in 1959, I can tell you that the restrictive "R&B" term changed to "urban" to reflect the fact that the music on stations targeting African Americans had expanded in scope... it was r&b, soul, Motown and now is even wider with rap and hip hop included.
Just like "Country" describes a variety of styles of music that represents or springs from smaller town and rural America, "Urban" represents the various forms of generally big-city sounds of Black music. While both terms, "Country" and "Urban" are perhaps a bit of an oversimplification, much of what we do every day is expressed in simplified and uncomplicated terms.
And, most important, it is the term that programmers and managers of Urban stations have agreed upon, and which those in the music industry have standardized on as well.
Somewhere along the line somebody decided to use "urban" as a euphemism to describe radio formats targeted at African Americans, and it caught on within the business. It might be argued that it is the exact opposite of "Country" in more ways than location. But it isn't really an accurate description since many "urban" areas have lots of residents who aren't African American. Check out the Upper East Side in Manhattan, or the Hispanic, Chinese, Italian, Russian or many many other ethnic areas of NYC.
So, semantic confusion might be avoided if Arbitron was a little more specific in how it classified the urban music formats in New York. Those of us who aren't experts in the formats do know that WBLS and WRKS were competing for a broader age and African American lifestyle category that is called Urban Adult Contemporary.
On the other hand, WQHT Hot-97 and WWPR Power-105 are direct competitors for the "Hip Hop" audience. And while, currently, WBLS and these two stations can both be described as "urban formats" they are, at least, as different as "Classic Rock" and "Classic Hits," or as "Latin Rhythmic" and "Spanish Tropical". So, Arbitron might consider listing them differently to provide a more specific description of the kinds of music they play so potential advertisers might get a better picture of typical listeners. And there is a big difference between Urban Adult Contemporary and Hip Hop listeners. Remember, until recently Emmis owned one station with each format and didn't think it was competing against itself within the "urban" format space.
Ciao9999 said:
The "urban" term was, when adopted, considered to be more contemporary and all-encompassing than previous terms for African American targeted stations, such as "R&B" in the 60's, "Negro" in the late 50's and "race music" in the 40's and early 50's (these terms, as unfortunate as they seem today, were the broadly used ones at the time; consult Broadcasting Magazine or Broadcasting Yearbook for evidence. Looking at trade ads for WDIA is particularly enlightening.)
"Urban" is a reference to the music of such-named stations, particularly soul and Motown, which had sprung from the urban environments of the American cities with large Black populations.
If anything, the term made Black-targeted stations more appealing to advertisers.
TimeIsTight said:
Arbitron does not describe formats. Stations select from a range of industry standardized terms, opting for the one that is the closest match to their format. The reason for standard terms is that agency buyers seldom know formats of all the stations they buy, so there is a need for a way to identify stations.
There are no market-specific definitions, as such would be confusing to buyers. And the format names are only adopted if there are a minimum number of similarly described stations nationally and if the term meets other internal scrutiny. The Advisory Council may be involved, too.
Urban Contemporary, Urban A/C and Black Gospel are among the formats Black targeted stations may select.
Power self-describes as Urban Contemporary, while Hot uses the Arbitron term of Rhythmic Contemporary Hit Radio.
And WBLS picked Urban Adult Contemporary, so each self describes in a different way, even though all have predominantly Black core audiences.
They do. Each selected a separate format descriptor. "Urban" without a further descriptor is not one of the Arbitron format options. And stations that try to appeal to Black, Hispanic and "Other" will often use one of the "rhythmic" options to show that slightly different focus.
I just always found it kinda derogatory towards people when the station was called Urban and it basically means that only a select group of individuals can listen to it. I listen to many different genres including: rock, alternative, pop, hip hop, some r & b, country, AAA, a/c, hot a/c. It basically targets one group everyone's different.
XCountry285 said:
Format names are generally used in the industry, and to a far lesser extent or not at all on the air. WQHT is Hot 97.7, not "Rhythmic Contemporary Hits 97.7."
The fact is that station management designs music formats to appeal to particular groups that have an affinity for a particular style of music. That way they can serve the group specifically and offer what they hope is a better option for that group. The group may be Black or Hispanic, young or older, male or female. Otherwise, in a market like New York, there would be 80 stations playing all the same kind of music with no differentiation.
Even among people who like several different kinds of music, it is usual for them to select particular styles according to mood or the moment, and not want them all together in some kind of musical gumbo.
There are also kinds of music that each person does not have a liking for. If they hear it, they will leave a station. The end result is specialization. You don't go to Home Depot for eggs...
Actually I do go to Home Depot for eggs
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