• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

US Channels in Canada

E

e-dawg

I know most of Canda relay on US network from Seattle, Spokane, Minneapolis, Detroit, Buffalo, and Boston. Should some of these city relay US channels from these city instead of Detroit or another 1,200 km.

Thunder Bay -> Duluth instead of Detroit
Calgary/Edmonton -> Great Falls or Missoula or Billings instead of Spokane. Also time zone difference.
London -> Cleveland instead of Detroit
Kitchner/Waterloo -> Erie instead of Buffalo
Peterbourgh --> Rochester
Ottawa --> Rochester or Watertown NY
Sherbrooke --> Portland ME instead of BUrlington/Plattsburg NY
Quebec City---> Bangor ME istead of Burlington/Plattsburg NY
Winnipeg -->Fargo/Grand Forks instead of Minneapolis/St Paul.
Regina ----> Williston/Fargo or Great Falls MT

What do you think?
 
There's a reason the Canadian cable systems relay the channels they do, but I'm not conversant enough with all the ins and outs.

I do seem to remember that Rochester stations (paging Scott Fybush!) lost their Canadian carriage due to technical/financial reasons involving the microwave system used to transport the signal to Canadian cable companies.

I also seem to recall that there was some complaining about the Detroit stations being used, due to local newscasts there packed with crime stories.
 
Calgary/Edmonton -> Great Falls or Missoula or Billings instead of Spokane.

Spokane has the big 4 on full-power signals. Most of Montana does not.

London -> Cleveland instead of Detroit

Detroit is closer physically and culturally. Easier to relay the US signal over land.

Kitchner/Waterloo -> Erie instead of Buffalo

Buffalo is closer physically and culturally. Again, easier to relay the US signal over land.

Peterbourgh --> Rochester

13-WHAM would get wiped out by CHEX-TV12.

Sherbrooke --> Portland ME instead of BUrlington/Plattsburg NY

Burlington stations transmit from Mount Mansfield, thus they have a large signal area.

Quebec City---> Bangor ME istead of Burlington/Plattsburg NY

Bangor has Fox on an LPTV. Burlington/Plattsburgh have the big 4 on full-power signals.

Winnipeg -->Fargo/Grand Forks instead of Minneapolis/St Paul.

Shaw cable in Winnipeg gets its US signals from 4 different markets:

ABC on WDAZ-8, Devils Lake/Grand Forks

CBS on WCCO-4, Minneapolis/St. Paul

Fox on WUHF-31, Rochester NY

NBC on KARE 11, Minneapolis/St. Paul

PBS on KGFE-2, Grand Forks and WTVS-56, Detroit
 
chuckydoll said:
Peterbourgh --> Rochester

13-WHAM would get wiped out by CHEX-TV12.

A notch filter would take care of that, but OTA reception of 13 from ROC would be prone to some serious trop interference, as Lake Ontario is notorius for.

Sherbrooke --> Portland ME instead of BUrlington/Plattsburg NY

Burlington stations transmit from Mount Mansfield, thus they have a large signal area.

Agreed, Mt. Mansfield has a better vantage point to put a signal into Sherbrooke, whereas Portland stations couldn't do it on a single hop due to terrain.

Quebec City---> Bangor ME istead of Burlington/Plattsburg NY

Bangor has Fox on an LPTV. Burlington/Plattsburgh have the big 4 on full-power signals.

Yep... and if you've ever seen Bangor TV, you would know that you're getting a better deal with stations from the Champlain Valley. WLBZ is more or less piped in from Portland, WABI is probably the best station in central Maine (thats not saying much), WVII has the production quality of a TV station from about 1978.
Click to expand...
 
e-dawg said:
I know most of Canda relay on US network from Seattle, Spokane, Minneapolis, Detroit, Buffalo, and Boston. Should some of these city relay US channels from these city instead of Detroit or another 1,200 km.

Thunder Bay -> Duluth instead of Detroit
Calgary/Edmonton -> Great Falls or Missoula or Billings instead of Spokane. Also time zone difference.
London -> Cleveland instead of Detroit
Kitchner/Waterloo -> Erie instead of Buffalo
Peterbourgh --> Rochester
Ottawa --> Rochester or Watertown NY
Sherbrooke --> Portland ME instead of BUrlington/Plattsburg NY
Quebec City---> Bangor ME istead of Burlington/Plattsburg NY
Winnipeg -->Fargo/Grand Forks instead of Minneapolis/St Paul.
Regina ----> Williston/Fargo or Great Falls MT

What do you think?
Click to expand...

Thunder Bay has a time zone difference from Duluth (all of Ontario is on Eastern time), although that doesn't seem to matter much since Winnipeg carries stations from the Eastern time zone.

I would think Canadians who watch US TV primarily do so for network programming, not local stuff in the closest US city which might still be a couple of hundred miles away, especially out west. In this case, what primarily matters is getting a good signal and production, which almost always comes more reliably from a large market station in say, Detroit or Minneapolis than a smaller market station in Duluth or Bangor.
 
Back when WUHF Rochester was seen all over Canada as one of the approved "Fox" affiliates, we could tell their non-network programming was making an impact as a large number of Canadians who had websites started asking what the hell The House of Guitars was on about. That local institution has has bizarre advertising since the 1970s and it had a lot of people wondering what was in the water down here. And although WUHF didn't officially recognize their Canadian audience, they didn't mind all of the paid placement programming airing overnight looking to capitalize on national Canadian coverage, right down to sleazy Canadian adult chat lines.

The deciding factor for network superstations is supposed to be the station's adherence to showing that network's programming. Rochester, having no major league sports team or a major budget to cover local events meant it was a safe bet if Fox ran it, it would be seen on WUHF. The signal strength at the uplink site didn't hurt either.

Many southern Ontario cable systems carried Rochester network signals, and many of the stations here regularly acknowledged that fact by actually spending a few moments discussing the weather in those southern Ontario cities. Weather maps routinely showed temperatures and basic weather conditions in Canadian viewing areas. The local public television station had a toll free number for pledges to accomodate Canadian viewers.

Unfortunately, the reverse has not been true, and Rochester has not had a Canadian TV station on our cable system since the 1980s when CJOH in Ottawa and CBLFT in Toronto (French CBC television for all six viewers who wanted to spend time with that down here) were on the dial.
 
Fox 31/Rochester is still seen all over Canada -- as far east as St. John's, Newfoundland, and as far west as Brandon, Manitoba.

Eastlink is the cable company for Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island; it has ABC, CBS, NBC and PBS from Boston plus PBS from Detroit (WTVS) and Fox 31 from Rochester. If Eastlink wanted to carry Fox 25 from Boston instead of Fox 31 from Rochester, then Eastlink would have to submit a formal application to the CRTC. Here in the States the FCC doesn't make cable companies jump through hoops for that.

e-dawg said:
I would think Canadians who watch US TV primarily do so for network programming, not local stuff in the closest US city which might still be a couple of hundred miles away, especially out west. In this case, what primarily matters is getting a good signal and production, which almost always comes more reliably from a large market station in say, Detroit or Minneapolis than a smaller market station in Duluth or Bangor.
Click to expand...

A better reason would be news and weather. I read where a year or two ago Manitoba got hit with severe summer storms -- and the local TV stations didn't bother to warn viewers. CBC reported that Canadians were relying a lot on US stations for weather. In Manitoba this would include WDAZ-8 and the Minneapolis stations.

As for programming? KGFE-2 is part of Prairie Public Television, which promotes its Canadian coverage in Winnipeg and Brandon.
 
e-dawg said:
London -> Cleveland instead of Detroit
Click to expand...

London used to get some or all of the big-three Cleveland stations years ago, plus an independent. I know for sure they had WKYC, and today they still have WUAB. And they still get Erie for NBC and ABC. I'm more or less satisfied with the present state of American channels on cable, although I would like to see the removal of WUAB which has become mostly an infomercial haven, and the addition of WKBD and WMYD. I don't care if Erie is available or not, although I would want to see WDIV reduce its NBC pre-emptions if WICU were to be removed.

Kitchner/Waterloo -> Erie instead of Buffalo
Click to expand...

As far as I'm concerned, that area should get Erie, because the Erie stations are the only American stations whose Grade B contours reach the Kitchener EM at Long Point/Port Dover.

Peterbourgh --> Rochester
Click to expand...

No argument there. I don't see how WHAM would interfere with CHEX on cable, however.

Ottawa --> Rochester or Watertown NY
Click to expand...

I'd go with Burlington/Plattsburgh.
 
M.J. said:
London used to get some or all of the big-three Cleveland stations years ago, plus an independent. I know for sure they had WKYC, and today they still have WUAB. And they still get Erie for NBC and ABC.
Click to expand...

Rogers in London carries these Stateside OTA stations:

ABC from Detroit (basic), Erie (basic) and Seattle (digital)

CBS from Detroit (basic) and Seattle (digital)

Fox from Detroit (expanded ???) and Seattle (digital)

NBC from Detroit (basic), Erie (basic) and Seattle (digital)

PBS from Detroit (digital), Erie (basic) and Seattle (digital)

CW from New York (digital), Chicago (digital) and Los Angeles (digital)

myTV from Buffalo (digital) and Cleveland (basic)

Digital customers also get the Big 4 in HD from Detroit and Seattle.

Ahhh, the joys of digital TV in Canada . . . getting the West Coast feeds of the Big 4 on the East Coast. ;D

It should be easier for Rogers to include the Big 4 + PBS, CW and myTV from Detroit. Keep in mind that Rogers would have to apply to the CRTC to carry WMYD-20 (myTV), WKBD-50 (CW) and WTVS-56 (PBS) in a non-digital tier in London.
 
It should be easier for Rogers to include the Big 4 + PBS, CW and myTV from Detroit. Keep in mind that Rogers would have to apply to the CRTC to carry WMYD-20 (myTV), WKBD-50 (CW) and WTVS-56 (PBS) in a non-digital tier in London.
Click to expand...

It's unfortunate...but perhaps they could get either WKBD or WMYD added if they were to get WUAB dropped. WTVS should be on cable in London - growing up I always wished we had WTVS instead of WQLN, and even to this day WTVS has a better schedule.
 
Now that the digital TV transition has happened south of the border, I wonder if reception of the Buffalo and Detroit stations had gotten better or worse. I have read sites like digitalhome.ca and I think many are satisfied, although some still can't receive some of the Buffalo or Detroit stations.
 
I was curious about a couple of posters here who made the comment that Detroit is "culturally closer" to
Canada than other cities named. I was wondering what exactly was meant by that? I have lived in the
Detroit area, and no doubt people there are much more tuned-in to what is going on in Canada than in
most other U.S. cities. I was curious what from a Canadian perspective makes it so?
 
FreddyE1977 said:
I was curious about a couple of posters here who made the comment that Detroit is "culturally closer" to
Canada than other cities named. I was wondering what exactly was meant by that? I have lived in the
Detroit area, and no doubt people there are much more tuned-in to what is going on in Canada than in
most other U.S. cities. I was curious what from a Canadian perspective makes it so?
Click to expand...

I can only speak for London since I am familiar with that area and an earlier post referred to Detroit as being culturally closer to London than Cleveland. There are a number of ways in which this is so:

- Driving proximity - Detroit is the closest major U.S. city to get to driving. In my case, it is the nearest major city period, as it is closer than Toronto.
- Airport - Detroit's Metro Airport is a popular airport for international travel in Southwestern Ontario, because it is much cheaper to fly from than Toronto's Pearson Airport. Not surprisingly there are a couple London-DTW airport shuttle bus services operating numerous times per day.
- Sports teams - While Toronto sports are dominant in London, there are fan bases there for the major Detroit teams, particularly the Tigers and the Red Wings (but never the Lions). During the last couple Stanley Cups, a lot of people here were cheering for the Red Wings. Once you're west of London, Detroit sports become much more dominant. Before the Toronto Blue Jays existed, the Tigers were the dominant Major League Baseball team in the London area. Local media coverage almost always makes a point of including Detroit sports scores.
- Economy - The London-area economy has long been heavily tied with the Detroit auto industry. When the auto industry there tanked, London's unemployment skyrocketed.

Lake Erie prevents much of a direct relationship between Southwestern Ontario and both Cleveland and Erie.
 
stationless listener said:
Now that the digital TV transition has happened south of the border, I wonder if reception of the Buffalo and Detroit stations had gotten better or worse. I have read sites like digitalhome.ca and I think many are satisfied, although some still can't receive some of the Buffalo or Detroit stations.
Click to expand...

Assuming you're asking about border areas-- I can speak for Niagara Falls, Ont. since my mother lives there. During past visits this year I've taken my portable digital TV and an external antenna. The reception there is very impressive. All the Canadian analog signals...toronto, hamilton etc all come through pretty well, except for CITY-57. CFTO's digital 9 is also great. Then, all of Buffalo's (HD only) channels come through beautifully, including Batavia's ch. 51 and its 3 sub-channels.

Overall I think the HDTV is ok, except for the range limitations that the stations have now, when compared to what analog could do. As a former TV Dx'er that's a real disappointment. :'(
 
M.J. said:
FreddyE1977 said:
I was curious about a couple of posters here who made the comment that Detroit is "culturally closer" to
Canada than other cities named. I was wondering what exactly was meant by that? I have lived in the
Detroit area, and no doubt people there are much more tuned-in to what is going on in Canada than in
most other U.S. cities. I was curious what from a Canadian perspective makes it so?
Click to expand...

I can only speak for London since I am familiar with that area and an earlier post referred to Detroit as being culturally closer to London than Cleveland. There are a number of ways in which this is so:

- Driving proximity - Detroit is the closest major U.S. city to get to driving. In my case, it is the nearest major city period, as it is closer than Toronto.
- Airport - Detroit's Metro Airport is a popular airport for international travel in Southwestern Ontario, because it is much cheaper to fly from than Toronto's Pearson Airport. Not surprisingly there are a couple London-DTW airport shuttle bus services operating numerous times per day.
- Sports teams - While Toronto sports are dominant in London, there are fan bases there for the major Detroit teams, particularly the Tigers and the Red Wings (but never the Lions). During the last couple Stanley Cups, a lot of people here were cheering for the Red Wings. Once you're west of London, Detroit sports become much more dominant. Before the Toronto Blue Jays existed, the Tigers were the dominant Major League Baseball team in the London area. Local media coverage almost always makes a point of including Detroit sports scores.
- Economy - The London-area economy has long been heavily tied with the Detroit auto industry. When the auto industry there tanked, London's unemployment skyrocketed.

Lake Erie prevents much of a direct relationship between Southwestern Ontario and both Cleveland and Erie.
Click to expand...

Interesting. It seemed to me that once you cleared Customs at the Canadian end of the Ambassador Bridge you were in Blue Jays territory. Everyone seemed to root for them as opposed to the Tigers. I used to listen to their games out of Sarnia. Eventually the Tigers filed some sort of protest and they quit broadcasting the games vs. Detroit.

I can see you all rooting for the Red Wings though. The Leafs stink on ice....literally!
 
FreddyE1977 said:
It seemed to me that once you cleared Customs at the Canadian end of the Ambassador Bridge you were in Blue Jays territory. Everyone seemed to root for them as opposed to the Tigers. I used to listen to their games out of Sarnia. Eventually the Tigers filed some sort of protest and they quit broadcasting the games vs. Detroit.
Click to expand...

When the Jays were on CBC and the Expos were on CBC and Radio-Canada, CBET and CBEFT (respectively) would black out the games if the Tigers were playing at home and were on TV. Despite many Windsorites rooting for the Jays, to the Tigers, it's still their turf.
 
MarioMania said:
How good can people in Seattle or the City's close to Canada picking up Canadian Station
Click to expand...

Seattle is a ways from Vancouver, and I'm pretty sure the Canadian stations are a difficult pickup. Maybe not in Everett, north of Seattle.

I'm also pretty sure CBUT, the CBC station there, gets regular carriage on Puget Sound cable systems. I don't think the CTV, Global, etc. stations have U.S. cable carriage beyond the Bellingham area....
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom