Usage History of Cable Channels 2-13 on Your Local Cable Systems

[Thomps2525]

When I mentioned the original call letters of several Los Angeles tv stations, I forgot about KCOP-Channel 13. It was originally KLAC. Thanks to K.M. Richards for pointing that out. He also noted that there were cable systems that carried KCET on 6 or 10 and KMEX on 8 or 12. Other systems carried KDOC on 6 and KWHY on 8. Why were there so many different channel lineups? Sammons Communications, for example, operated in several southern California regions and each region had a different lineup. And how did each company decide where to put the various channels? Was there any logic involved or was everything just random?

 

[Thomps2525]

It seems that neither K.M. nor I have a perfect memory. The call letters of Channel 13 in Los Angeles were originally KMTR (1948-49), which stood for the station's owner, K.M. Turner Radio Corporation.

 

[fybush]

Was there any logic involved or was everything just random?

Yes.

A lot of it was just an issue of who came on the air when. If you assume that most/all of the systems surrounding LA would have automatically carried the "big 7" on their OTA channels, that left only 3, 6, 8, 10 and 12 available for other uses. To the south, many systems would have been picking up XETV, KFMB and KOGO-TV on 6/8/10 fairly early on. To the north, many systems had KEYT on 3. So that in turn left even fewer potential places to put the Us as they signed on - and at that point, it was probably random-ish, depending on which of those open channels had local origination already running.

 

[crainbebo]

And now KMTR is NBC in Eugene OR (Channel 16). But speaking of cable, I'm not sure when Seattle began cable service (probably late 1960s?) Astoria OR was the first one in the world in 1949, with one channel (KRSC-5 Seattle WA). Seattle FMs do very well in Astoria due to line of sight. It's 120 miles, but they sound like they are 20 miles away.

-crainbebo

 

[Thomps2525]

I've been to Astoria. I climbed to the top of the Astoria Tower---and pretty fast, too! The houses that were used in the movies Free Willy and Goonies are in Astoria. Here is an article about the Astoria man who invented cable television:

http://www.offbeatoregon.com/o1109c-astoria-man-invents-cable-tv-as-favor-for-wife.html

I apologize for mentioning Astoria four times in this post.

Okay, five.

 

[Joey1986]

Getting back on topic, I remember what the system which is now the Hollywood-Westchester (Los Angeles, CA) lineup for Time Warner Cable had in the 2-13 range, when it was Continental Cablevision in the early 1990s:

2 KCBS (CBS O&O)
3 KCET (then PBS, now educational indie; this slot is still occupied by KCET to this day)
4 KNBC (NBC O&O)
5 KTLA (then indie, now CW)
6 ESPN (this slot is now occupied by QVC)
7 KABC (ABC O&O)
8 USA (this slot is now occupied by HSN)
9 KCAL (indie)
10 FX (this slot is now occupied by KMEX--Univision O&O)
11 KTTV (Fox O&O)
12 *don't remember* (this slot is now occupied by KVEA--Telemundo O&O)
13 KCOP (then indie, now MyNetworkTV)

 

[AKA]

From memory, here's Cox Cable Spokane's lineup c. 1987-1988:

2 - KREM-TV (CBS)
3 - CNN Headline News
4 - KXLY-TV (ABC)
5 - City Government
6 - KHQ-TV (NBC)
7 - KSPS-TV (PBS)
8 - USA Network
9 - ESPN
10 - CNN
11 - MTV
12 - TBS
13 - Nickelodeon

Within the next few years, 11 became the newly-launched TNT (bumping MTV to 33), 12 became The Family Channel (bumping TBS to 33) and 3 became KAYU-TV 28 (Headline News moved to 37). Other than that, this lineup stayed consistent until the early '90s.

 

[Thomps2525]

I was wrong about the original call letters of Los Angeles Channel 13. Several websites and Channel 13 tribute sites say that the station began as KMTR but those declarations are probably what psychologists would call "false memories." K.M. Richards provided a link to a page from the April 12 1948 issue of Broadcasting magazine, showing the issuance of a construction permit for KLAC-TV. The owner was KMTR Radio Corporation and the "false memories" obviously confused the corporation with the call letters. Thanks again to K.M. Richards.

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/hd2/Archive-BC-IDX/48-OCR/1948-04-12-BC-OCR-Page-0093.pdf

 

[crainbebo]

AKA, where was KSTW? I thought it was carried on cable in Spokane until the SyndEx laws came into effect c. 1990.

-crainbebo

 

[AKA]

AKA, where was KSTW? I thought it was carried on cable in Spokane until the SyndEx laws came into effect c. 1990.

-crainbebo

KSTW was Channel 23. Sometime around 1991 or so, it moved to Channel 20 and was demoted to "part time" status, sharing channel space with VH1. It disappeared completely shortly after the CBS affiliation took effect.

In my post above, I goofed and said TBS moved to 33. I meant to say it moved to 21.

 

[Thomps2525]

According to Wikipedia, which, as we all know, is never wrong---wait...what?---in March of 1995 when KSTW affiliated with CBS, the channel was dropped from cable systems in eastern Washington and northern Idaho because they werer already carrying CBS affiliate KREM from Spokane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KSTW

 

[bpatrick]

Athens, GA 1973:

2 WSB Atlanta (NBC)
3 WHAE Atlanta (Ind.-CBN) (broadcast Ch. 46, now CBS affiliate WGCL)
4 WFBC Greenville, SC (NBC)
5 WAGA Atlanta (CBS)
6 Time-Weather (on those old-fashioned clocklike dials)
7 WTCG Atlanta (Ind.) (broadcast Ch. 17)
8 WGTV Athens/Atlanta (PBS)
9 WJBF Augusta (ABC/NBC) (broadcast Ch. 6)
10 WSPA Spartanburg, SC (CBS) (broadcast Ch. 7)
11 WXIA Atlanta (ABC)
12 WRDW Augusta (CBS/NBC)
13 WLOS Asheville, NC (ABC)

WJBF and WSPA were moved to Chs. 6 and 7, respectively,
by mid-decade. By 1980, before the WSB/WXIA switch, both
had been removed. The lineup was then:

2 WSB Atlanta (NBC)
3 HBO
4 WFBC Greenville, SC (NBC)
5 WAGA Atlanta (CBS)
6 WATL Atlanta (Ind., broadcast Ch. 36)
7 CNN (I think this is right, I may have CNN and WTBS backwards)
8 WGTV Athens/Atlanta (PBS)
9 WANX (new calls for WHAE)
10 WTBS
11 WXIA Atlanta (ABC)
12 WRDW Augusta (CBS)
13 WLOS Asheville, NC (ABC)

 

[AKA]

According to Wikipedia, which, as we all know, is never wrong---wait...what?---in March of 1995 when KSTW affiliated with CBS, the channel was dropped from cable systems in eastern Washington and northern Idaho because they werer already carrying CBS affiliate KREM from Spokane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KSTW

That could be right. I know Cox in Spokane kept it on for a very short time after the CBS affiliation took effect (with CBS programming syndexed out), but whether it was one week or two months I can't recall.

With KSTW out of the picture, they made an arrangement with KIRO to carry their news broadcasts and Mariners games on the public access station. I believe the M's moved from KSTW to KIRO right around that time.

 

[onairb]

San Carlos, CA (TCI/AT&T Broadband/Comcast) didn't have a lot of turnover for channels 2-13 from the late '70s til I moved out of the area in '06.
2 KTVU(Independent, later Fox)
3 HBO until late 2001, when that channel went 'digital only' on Comcast; then San Jose's KNTV, which was about to become an NBC O & O, was added at this position
4 KRON(NBC until the end of 2001, then independent)
5 KPIX(CBS)
6-various...at times it was KCSM (PBS) from San Mateo, sometimes TBS, and for quite a while, Showtime.
7 KGO (ABC)
8 KBHK 44 (then independent), until about 1980, when it swapped with KDTV 14(SIN, later Univision)
9 KQED PBS
10 TBS was also here at one point, as well as KEMO channel 20 (later KTZO and KOFY)
11 KNTV(ABC in San Jose for years; dropped from this system in 1986, brought back in 2001)
12 KDTV, them KBHK; KDTV once shared with KTXL 40 in Sacramento on this space.
13 Yer another spot for KCSM and TBS, before KTZO/KOFY 20 cane along in 1980(when Jim Gabbert bought the station, and KEMO shut down).

 

[CTListener]

I'm coming up blank on the name of the cable system, but it was Stuttgart, Ark., in 1978:

2 KETS (PBS, Little Rock)
3 WREC (CBS, Memphis)
4 KARK (NBC, Little Rock)
5 WMC (NBC, Memphis)
6 HBO
7 KATV (ABC, Little Rock)
8 WTBS
9 Reuters news/sports wire, with CB chatter from Channel 19 as background audio!
10 KTVT (Ind., Dallas-Fort Worth)
11 KTHV (CBS, Little Rock)
12 KXTX (Ind./CBN, Dallas-Fort Worth)
13 WHBQ (ABC, Memphis)

 

[Ccook55]

Earliest I can recall was when we moved from California to Georgia in 1965. Spent two years in Macon, which then had only channel 13 (WMAZ, CBS primary; ABC and NBC secondary). Cable was required to get other network stations, and we had these pretty much set:
2 - WSB/ch. 2 (NBC) Atlanta GA
3 - WRBL/ch. 3 (CBS) Columbus GA
4 - WMAZ/ch. 13 (CBS/NBC/ABC) Macon
5 - WAGA/ch. 5 (CBS) Atlanta GA
8 - WGTV/ch. 8 (NET) Athens GA
9 - WTVM/ch. 9 (NBC/ABC) Columbus GA
11 - WAII/ch. 11 (ABC) Atlanta GA
13 - audio to WSB-FM in Atlanta

No converter boxes were needed back then. We just used the regular dial channels.

Today, Comcast is the standard throughout most of Atlanta, and this is what the locals occupy on VHF channels:
2 - WATC/ch. 57 (Religious/educational)
3 - WSB/ch. 2 (ABC)
4 - WAGA/ch. 5 (Fox)
5 - Atlanta Interfaith Broadcasters
6 - WXIA/ch. 11 (NBC)
7 - WPCH/ch. 17 (Ind.)
8 - WGTV/ch. 8 (PBS)
9 - WGCL/ch. 46 (CBS)
10 - WUPA/ch. 69 (CW)
11 - WHSG/ch. 63 (Trinity)
12 - WTLK/ch. 14 (Ion)
13 - WATL/ch. 36 (My Network TV)

WPBA/ch. 30 (PBS) is on channel 16.

 

[ftballfan]

Manistee, MI

1990 (from newspaper):
4 - WPBN (NBC) Traverse City
6 - WCMW (PBS) Manistee
7 - WLUK (NBC) Green Bay (dropped in early 1990s)
9 - WZZM (ABC) Grand Rapids (dropped in early 1990s; the hospital/medical care system still had WZZM for ABC (no WGTU) until Charter ran their lines out that far)
10 - WWTV (CBS) Cadillac
11 - ESPN
12 - WTBS (IND) Atlanta
13 - WGN (IND) Chicago
Doesn't list WKBD, but according to Wikipedia, they were carried in northern Michigan prior to WGKI signing on; WGTU not listed, but assuming they were on 8

Mid 1990s:
2 - Local Access
3 - WGKI (FOX) Cadillac
4 - WPBN (NBC) Traverse City
5 - TBS
6 - WCMW (PBS) Manistee
7 - Prevue Guide
8 - WGTU (ABC) Traverse City
9 - QVC
10 - WWTV (CBS) Cadillac
11 - Real Estate Showcase
12 - WGN (WB) Chicago
13 - Q2 (short-lived second feed of QVC)

Early 2000s:
2 - Local Access
3 - WFQX (FOX) Cadillac
4 - WPBN (NBC) Traverse City
5 - TBS
6 - WCMW (PBS) Manistee
7 - TV Guide Channel
8 - WGTU (ABC) Traverse City
9 - QVC
10 - WWTV (CBS) Cadillac
11 - Real Estate Showcase
12 - SuperStation WGN
13 - Toon Disney (moved to channel 58 in 2002)

Mid-to-late 2000s:
2 - Local Access (moved to channel 97 around 2010)
3 - WFQX (FOX) Cadillac
4 - WPBN (NBC) Traverse City
5 - TBS
6 - WCMV (PBS) Cadillac
7 - TV Guide Channel (moved to channel 84 around 2010)
8 - WGTU (ABC) Traverse City
9 - QVC
10 - WWTV (CBS) Cadillac
11 - Real Estate Showcase
12 - SuperStation WGN
13 - Annenberg Channel/Northwestern Michigan Community College (ceased operations in 2008)

Early 2010s:
2 - blank
3 - WFQX (FOX) Cadillac
4 - WPBN (NBC) Traverse City
5 - TBS (moved to channel 15 in 2014)
6 - WCMV (PBS) Cadillac
7 - blank
8 - WGTU (ABC) Traverse City
9 - QVC
10 - WWTV (CBS) Cadillac
11 - Real Estate Showcase (moved to channel 185 in 2014)
12 - WGN America
13 - blank

Currently:
2 - blank
3 - WFQX (FOX) Cadillac
4 - WPBN (NBC) Traverse City
5 - HSN (moved from channel 71 in 2014)
6 - WCMV (PBS) Cadillac
7 - blank
8 - WGTU (ABC) Traverse City
9 - QVC
10 - WWTV (CBS) Cadillac
11 - WLLZ (MNTV/RTV) Cedar (moved from channel 72 in 2014)
12 - WGN America
13 - WMNN (IND) Lake City (moved from channel 73 in 2014)

 

[K.M. Richards]

A bit too easy for me, having grown up in Ventura, CA, in the Los Angeles market but with two significantly viewed stations from the adjacent Santa Barbara market. All the Vs were on their off-air channel, the Us filled in the blanks:

Avenue TV Cable Service

1969:
2 - KNXT L.A.
3 - KEYT S.B.
4 - KNBC L.A.
5 - KTLA L.A.
6 - Local Origination / KBSC 52 L.A.
7 - KABC L.A.
8 - KWHY 22 L.A. / KMEX 34 L.A.
9 - KHJ L.A.
10 - KCET L.A.
11 - KTTV L.A.
12 - KKOG 16 Ventura
13 - KCOP L.A.

When KKOG went dark in September, 12 went blank, then when KCOY Santa Maria started being carried by the Santa Barbara cable system (which meant NFL games on CBS blacked out in L.A. could be viewed) they microwaved it down from the S.B. headend.

When KBSC went subscription television in 1977 they were dropped from 6.

When KTIE 63 Oxnard went on the air in 1983 it displaced KWHY and KMEX on 8, with the latter replacing KCOY on 12.

KNXT and KHJ changed call letters along the way, to KCBS and KCAL.

In more recent years, under Charter ownership, KMEX is on 14, KVEA (former KBSC) is 17, KBEH (former KTIE) is 29, KCET is 28 (matching their on-air channel number), KDOC 56 Anaheim/L.A. is on 10.

When KCET dropped PBS, they moved KOCE to channel 28.

8 and 12 got QVC and HSN.

As of April, Charter went all-digital there, but the 2-12 channel assignments stayed the same. (Including the shopping channels.)

 

[harrisburgpatv2]

Narrowsburg, N.Y. - Lived there from 1982-1987.

2 - WCBS-TV 2 NYC
3 - WBRE-TV 28 Wilkes-Barre (NBC)
4 - WNBC-4 NYC
5 - WNEW/WNYW-TV 5 NYC
6 - WNEP-TV 16 Scranton (ABC)
7 - WABC-TV 7 NYC
8 - WDAU-TV 22 Scranton (CBS) / after a few months, moved to 10
9 - WOR-TV 9 NYC
10 WVIA-TV 44 Scranton (PBS)
11 - WPIX-TV 11 NYC
12 - WBNG-TV 12 Binghamton (CBS) / Replaced by WOLF-TV 38 Scranton in June 1986
13 - WSKG-TV 46 Binghamton (PBS)

Bloomsburg, PA - Lived there from 1987-1993.

2 - WYOU-TV 22
3 - WBRE-TV 28
4 - WVIA-TV 44
5 - WNYW-TV 5 (WOLF-TV 38 moved here in August 1990 from channel 20)
6 - WNEP-TV 16
7 - WPHL-TV 17 Philadelphia (Ind.) - TNT moved here in November 1989, WPHL moved to channel 17
8 - WTAF/WTXF 29 Philadelphia (FOX) - CNN moved here in November 1989, WTXF moved to channel 29
9 -(W)WOR-TV 9
10 - WCAU-TV 10 Philadelphia (CBS)
11 - WPIX-TV 11
12 -ESPN
13 - KYW-TV 3 Philadelphia (NBC) / blacked out and replaced with time/temperature when WBRE showed the same thing.

Selinsgrove, PA - Lived there from 1993-2000.

2 - WYOU-TV 22
3 - WBRE-TV 28
4 - WVIA-TV 44
5 - WOLF-TV 38
6 - WNEP-TV 16
7 - WPHL-TV 17
8 - WGAL-TV 8 (NBC) Lancaster
9 - WWOR-TV 9
10 - WHP-TV 21 (CBS) Harrisburg
11 - WPIX-TV 11
12 - WITF-33 (PBS) Harrisburg
13 - WHTM-27 (ABC) Harrisburg / blacked out and replaced with time/temperature when WNEP showed the same thing, up until 1995 or 1996

Port Trevorton, PA - Lived there from 2000-2003

2 - Nickelodeon
3 - WVIA-TV 44
4 - WHP-TV 21
5 - Discovery Channel
6 - TV Land
7 - ABC Family
8 - WGAL-TV 8
9 - WITF-TV 33
10 - WGCB-TV 49 Red Lion (Ind.)
11 - WLYH-TV 15 Lebanon (UPN)
12 - WPMT-TV 43 York (FOX)
13 - WHTM-TV 27

Harrisburg - have lived here since 2003

2 - WHP-TV 21
3 - WGAL-TV 8
4 - ShopNBC / C-SPAN moved here in November 2009
5 - WPMT-TV 43
6 - WITF-TV 33
7 - WGCB-TV 49
8 - CN8, now Comcast Network
9 - WHTM-TV 27
10 - WPIX-TV 11 NYC / removed from cable in 2006 and not replaced
11 - QVC
12 - WPHL-TV 17
13 - WLYH-TV 15

 

[Ccook55]

In 1974, we were in Panama City, Fla. for a vacation, and cable furnished some nine stations from various cities. Except for a UHF station out of Dothan, Ala., it was pretty uniform with OTA channels matching their cable spots:
3 - WEAR (ABC) Pensacola
4 - WTVY (CBS) Dothan AL (now replaced on Panama City cable systems with local CBS affiliate WECP/ch. 18)
5 - WKRG (CBS) Mobile AL
6 - WCTV (CBS) Thomasville GA/Tallahassee FL
7 - WJHG (ABC) Panama City (now NBC)
8 - WDHN (ABC) Dothan AL (OTA ch. 18)
9 - Local weather information
10 - WALA (NBC) Mobile AL (now Fox)
11 - WFSU (PBS) Tallahassee FL
12 - silent
13 - WDTB (NBC) Panama City (now ABC affiliate WMBB)