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Using a small scale community mesh network to stream audio

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Dr_Johnnie_Fever

has anyone tried setting up a community mesh network and using it to stream audio? I wondering about the feasability of such a setup as compared to setting up a AM or FM Part 15.

Especially if a local Radio Station decideds they don't want you there and has the FCC show up, which ends up in you having to remove your ground. or your unlucky enough to live in low soil conductivity area.
 
and before you all start in. once an agent shows up and finds you in violation, you have a single chance to correct it or risk a monetary/or equipment forfeiture.

most people just shut it off and don't bother. that's not even considering if your unfortunate enough to live in florida or new jersey.
 
You can still ground the unit but you have to be certain to do it in a way that won't be considered unacceptable by FCC field personnel.

Even if local radio stations don't want you on the air, they can't have you shut down as long as your transmitter is set up in accordance with Part 15 regulations. Best to use a Type Accepted unit of course which helps when you do have a visit.

The laws in FLA and NJ are illegal. Plain and simple.

Bear in mind, full power stations violate a lot more FCC regulations than their Part 15 counterparts. If you believe a local station is singling you out unfairly, then go on the offensive and try to find something at their station that violates FCC reg's and then file a complaint. Turnabout is fair play. Give them a dose of their own medicine.
 
well i'm not going to get into what is what. but it has been done here locally to the p,burg fellow and the FCC agents figure we all know each other. so if i set up a hamilton which i do have it's only a matter of time before they ask me to either ground mount it or remove the ground. this is the philadelphia feild office.

so i'm looking for alternatives to the situation.
 
Yeah, I'm somewhat familiar with the Philly office attitude towards the particular station. It sounds like both parties involved here were at fault. The unit should be grounded otherwise it violates UL laws, or at least that is how I understand it.

WNAR has it ground mounted, at least I am certain that they do, and they've never had a problem. And, a friend in Lebanon, PA, also in the Philly region had his unit grounded for several years and it passed an FCC inspection.
 
it's a 802.11b/g wireless lan network. every node communicates as an ad-hoc node. should a node be disabled the network routes around it and continues to function. it can be accessedc via 802.11 clients installed in laptops, phones, pda's, wifi radios, etc. and you are allowed up to 4w eirp in omnidirectional mode.
 
well i suspect that because i know the guy who has the p,burg tx, that i'm going to get harrassed about my ground just so the guy does not have a harrassment claim against the fcc. you know keep their decisions uniform. they did it to one in the area so they have to do it to everyone in that area, or risk having their decisions questions.

I'm thinking of running carrirer current using C-QuAM. I'm trying to find out if loading up the neutrals to bypass the transformers is legal. if it's legal, how do i go about measuring compliance from the wires through out the coverage area.

I don't want to get into it but this area is very anti unlicensed broadcasting whether legal unlicensed or pirate. so the stations, FCC and engineers do everything they can to get you off the air. i for one have actually considered selling my gear as things have gotten terrable here just in the last year alone. few years ago it wasn't so bad, but lately it seems very unfriendly towards p15 broadcasters. I have not dealt with the NY FCC office, so i don't know abouttheir attitude towards p15 stations.

luckily i've decided to keep my gear and work on moving out of this hell hole called NJ and go some where i can buy a house for what i'm paying in rent here and not somewhere i'll get flooded out or demolished by tornados and hurricanes.
 
The Rev needs to get some jewels and take a stand, I know several radio groups in our market area that are in major FCC violations, everything from excessive power levels to failing to have back up station at a EBS station.
ID the station that is filing complaints against you and watch us declare war on them, the fines and loss of advertising dollar might get their attention, You should always make sure you have more dirt on the trouble makers than they might have on you. I know of every violation our area stations are committing, and remind them know what goes around comes around.


Steve
www.radiooutlaw.com
 
Rev. The NYC field office is not at all hard on Part 15 operations. Many AMers operate in the NYC region and none to my knowledge have ever had any trouble. Several NYC licensed stations wanted WVRM in Montclair, NJ shut down but the FCC refused citing the fact they were using a Trans AM 100 transmitter at the time.

Moving out of NJ is a good idea for the reason's specified. I'm from Connecticut and while it is Part 15 AM friendly, the cost of housing is outrageous.

Steve. You've reinforced my earlier point that licensed stations break more regulations than Part 15 stations. I can guarantee that the tables can be turned on the culprits that are alleging Part 15 stations are causing trouble in their local listening area.
 
Neutral should be bonded to ground at the service panel/breaker box. That may cause a problem with the theory here..

df



Dr_Johnnie_Fever said:
well i suspect that because i know the guy who has the p,burg tx, that i'm going to get harrassed about my ground just so the guy does not have a harrassment claim against the fcc. you know keep their decisions uniform. they did it to one in the area so they have to do it to everyone in that area, or risk having their decisions questions.

I'm thinking of running carrirer current using C-QuAM. I'm trying to find out if loading up the neutrals to bypass the transformers is legal. if it's legal, how do i go about measuring compliance from the wires through out the coverage area.

I don't want to get into it but this area is very anti unlicensed broadcasting whether legal unlicensed or pirate. so the stations, FCC and engineers do everything they can to get you off the air. i for one have actually considered selling my gear as things have gotten terrable here just in the last year alone. few years ago it wasn't so bad, but lately it seems very unfriendly towards p15 broadcasters. I have not dealt with the NY FCC office, so i don't know abouttheir attitude towards p15 stations.

luckily i've decided to keep my gear and work on moving out of this hell hole called NJ and go some where i can buy a house for what i'm paying in rent here and not somewhere i'll get flooded out or demolished by tornados and hurricanes.
Click to expand...
 
Loading the neutrals is done. it just requires having a 1/4 wave or more of wiring between ground and RF hot. IE: using the neutrals as loop antenna. there is a an inpedance of .001 or .01 ohms which is enough for the tuner to tune. it's just tricky.

the jury is still out on the legalities from the FCC on such a setup. i know of a few stations employing neutral loading, but have not heard of any actions against them.

but this may be the low profile nature of carrier current and most carrier current operations don't employ both free radiate and carrier current, so they may be flying under the radar.
 
Dealing with snarky commercial broadcasters

Best way to get the attention of an annoying licensed broadcaster is to get a friend/witness to come with you during normal business hours, march into said station and ask to see the Public File. They have to show it to you then and there. No "come back Tuesday when the PD is here." Everybody in the station should know where the Public File is, and that it is, as the name says, a "Public File."

Make sure they also give you a copy of the FCC publication "The Public and Broadcasting" which they're required to do if you ask for it. It's a great handbook to tell you what you should find in the public file. If you don't find everything in the public file, let the station know that they're missing so and so. Then you can negotiate to either have them get off your back or you will let the FCC know they don't have the required public file information.

They are also required to provide copies of anything in the file, but they are allowed to charge a fair price for the copies. Except that they have to provide "The Public and Broadcasting" for free, even if it's a copy, which it probably will be.

Making the licensed stations toe the same line they're drawing in the sand can help level the playing field if your a hard working Part 15 having that sand kicked in your face.


-The Knob
 
Hello Rev. Robert,

I am a bit confused here, probably because your thread got away from a really good technical question into a bit of a rant on how to deal with FCC and stool pigeons. So, let's try to get back on topic.

I first want to make sure I understand what you are looking for. If I understand the issue, you want to use a mesh network that utilizes WiFi transmission as an STL (studio transmitter link) to a series of multiple P15 AM and FM transmitters. And one node would relay the audio to the next node farther away from your studio or program source. Please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding. (Maybe you want people with WiFi enabled PCs to listen to your stream with a program like Winamp, but I did not think so.)

I suppose the feasibility depends in part on where the nodes will be and what resources there are for them. For example, can you place WAPs (Wireless Access Points) or mesh nodes in the windows of your friends and neighbors houses eery so often and plug them into their regular wall outlets (these are low drain devices) or are you looking for a municipality-grade pole mount or whatever? Are you focusing on the 802.11 b/g/n standard or would something like a 900 MHz or 2.4 GHz consumer grade PC wireless PC to stereo adapter do the job?


I came across the following web site:

http://meraki.com/

They claim to be providing the "free" municipal Wi-Fi network in San Francisco. They sell indoor units for $50 and outdoor weather-proof units for $99 each.

hawkingtech.com sells a lot of Wi-Fi related stuff like high gain directional antennas and specialized units.

I have also seen articles on the internet of home made antennas that boost Wi-Fi range through directional yagi arrays.

Finally, the $200 XO One Lap Top Per Child has built in Wi-Fi and Mesh and Audio (and Video) stuff.

Again, this is all going to depend on how you think you can place the nodes in your desired area.

Please let us know if this is the right direction.

And I would also be very interested in this concept.
 
I want to use a mesh network to actually stream my audio content over. I want to use it as a massive WLAN and people would log onto that wlan AP and get a splash page with a link to my stream and maybe some local info. that is all it would be used for. possibly in the future people would have the ability to add and register their own servers on the system. it would grow to be a community intranet seperate from the WWW. Maybe in the future AM/FM Part 15 Tx's can be added @ each node in the system to allow reception on traditional broadcast receivers. I would also like to run each node off solar power given the power levels we deal with this can easily be done. i'm wondering if anyone has done anything like this. i'd love to seen the AP side run on 802.11n and the mesh backbone side use traditional 802.11a to connect each node. what are the typical service radius for the AP side of the nodes? is it better to use Hi Gain Antenna's and Low power or hi Power and low gain antenna's? any other questions i should be asking? there is very little on the web about something like this.
 
William C. Walker said:
Steve. You've reinforced my earlier point that licensed stations break more regulations than Part 15 stations. I can guarantee that the tables can be turned on the culprits that are alleging Part 15 stations are causing trouble in their local listening area.
Click to expand...

Take it from one who can not just verify this but can also PROVE it: With the FCC, "The squeaky wheel WILL get the oil!" The system is designed in that way and, like the person who frequently complains of a (non-existent) barking dog, after being sent over for the 28th consecutive trip, the cops WILL eventually decide to "silence" that "dog" even if they have to come up with a wholly unrelated complaint (of their own manufacturing) to do it!

Keith Hammond
MonsterFM.com / Broadcast Technical Services
 
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