I know this'll be the millionth time somebody asked this question, but since I can dig up the answer in a search, here goes: what's the rule regarding usage of tv/movie audio on a radio broadcast? I remember reading somewhere that technically any usage without specific permission by a radeio station is illegal, but it's one of those things that nobody grouses about if it's just a liner or drop or something. (Correct me if I'm wrong please.) Does the same thing apply to a radio show? For example, Allan Stagg's "Sanctuary" is grounded in this type of usage, and although I plan to email him too (if his old address still works) I wanted to also ask this in open forum for anyone else who may know/need to know. Should the radio show merely provide a playlist to the station or is there more involved?
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Using tv/movie audio on radio
- Thread starter MarkLaRoi
- Start date
U
uppendowndadial
Guest
I've never heard of anyone getting busted for using "ear candy" in liners, promos, or during an airshift. I know the folks at the Faux network have had a problem with Simpsons audio. A lot of .wav file webpages had collections of clips, and Faux found them all and sent c&d's Yeah, technically it may be a copyright issue, but it's kinda like a library taking someone to court for a 6 cent overdue book.
Here's the loophole in that: If the audio is taken from a commercially available recording - and used for entertainment purposes only - it's perfectly OK. Why is that a loophole? Becuase all these movies, and many TV shows, are available on retailed DVDs.Be careful - "It's the five o'clock traffic jam" is OK to use these drops with..."It's the five o'clock traffic jam, brought to you by Budweiser" is not.
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gregwilliamslighthouse
Guest
Is there any danger for lil'one horse operations working out of a home studio or are we flying under the radar well enough? ???
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FMDawg
Guest
But why???
While I'm guilty of doing the "drop" thing myself, so I'm not casting stones, I have a question about this whole subject.
Why is it we as a group feel we must continue to lean on this crutch? Are we so pressed for time that's it's just easier than thinking of something clever on our own? Or do we really believe that it "adds" something to the piece?
Just food for thought.
While I'm guilty of doing the "drop" thing myself, so I'm not casting stones, I have a question about this whole subject.
Why is it we as a group feel we must continue to lean on this crutch? Are we so pressed for time that's it's just easier than thinking of something clever on our own? Or do we really believe that it "adds" something to the piece?
Just food for thought.
I think it's the fact it ties your show or station to something the audience is already familiar with. If Homer says something funny about your station or you....the listener may hang on to it a little better than just an unknown voice or character. I will go back to something a GM told me....."People don't know what they like....they like what they know."
From my viewpoint, only lazy creative people depend on Homer's Q rating to make their imaging ear-catching to the listener. It's about recontextualization. The real art is by giving a line from another source new meaning. When you use Harrison Ford saying "get down," as in "duck," in a spot that would suggest that he means "get down," as in "boogie," THAT's using the noodle. The fact that it's Han Solo doesn't make a difference any more...if indeed people would pick up that it's Han Solo. Homer's unmistakability may even take the listener's mind off of your station's identity, which defeats the pupose of sweepers overall.
an aside: Imager voice/hit/drop/splash/imager voice/sizzle/ID. Typical sweeper, right? On paper, it looks just like a bored viewer with the clicker. Take that way of thinking further, and let's say a longer positioning statement takes 11 seconds. Let's say that it has 20 elements - each separate phrase, each drop, each segue fx, each piece of music bed and so forth. You have it edited so tightly that it seems to streak across the speakers. But, today's listeners (particularly the younger ones) don't perceive that it was only 11 seconds. They perceive each of the 20 transitions. In other words, the old conventional wisdom about spotsets - units, not :60 v :30 - will soon (or already should) apply to imaging.
an aside: Imager voice/hit/drop/splash/imager voice/sizzle/ID. Typical sweeper, right? On paper, it looks just like a bored viewer with the clicker. Take that way of thinking further, and let's say a longer positioning statement takes 11 seconds. Let's say that it has 20 elements - each separate phrase, each drop, each segue fx, each piece of music bed and so forth. You have it edited so tightly that it seems to streak across the speakers. But, today's listeners (particularly the younger ones) don't perceive that it was only 11 seconds. They perceive each of the 20 transitions. In other words, the old conventional wisdom about spotsets - units, not :60 v :30 - will soon (or already should) apply to imaging.
T
Tookiebird
Guest
I don't see a problem with using tv drops on radio as long as you don't have them on every friggin' spot and promo. I hear that being done more and more and frankly i think it takes awat from your message.
I hear a lot of jocks dropping them in every break. THAT sucks. And it's a crutch. Some pd's thing adding a bunch of tv drops is "Content". Thats BS.
I hear a lot of jocks dropping them in every break. THAT sucks. And it's a crutch. Some pd's thing adding a bunch of tv drops is "Content". Thats BS.
You can use movie/tv "drops" in station elements; promos, liners, etc. But you CANNOT use that copyrighted material in commercials.
It's ok to use them to sell your station, but it's not legal, ie copyright infringement, to use that same audio in a commercial for a client. Why? the client is deriving revenue off the usage of said copyrighted material, ie, the client doesn't own Harrison Ford's, or Homer's voice. Can't receive revenue via devices or images one doesn't own. Hence when someone uses Jennifer Lopez's likeness to sell a product, and they haven't paid her for the usage of her likeness, copyright infringement.
Same goes for music. Can't use a song...not even 5 seconds, for a client that hasn't paid for it's usage. Client must show proof that they've received permission.
I have a meeting every quarter with Sales, and when new staffers are hired, to go over copyright infringement, so that they understand it and can then pass it onto a client. I hate it when a vet, in this mid size market, will say "we've always done it this way" or "this client has always used the MNF theme for thier spots". I reply..well, you were breaking the law and putting the cluster, it's management, your client and this company at legal risk. They shut up quick!
And regarding using Simpsons (sooo old!) or Southpark, or some other overused drop in imaging - lame and tired. It's been going on like that since the '70s. Use audio from sources that aren't recognizable - burn factor is lower. Or as said below, use a drop in a way that it hasn't been used, ie "get down" from Han Solo for a disco promo.
Using real people, off the street audio, for liners instead of the VO guy is also a way to keep the produced VO stuff from burning.
Writing is key. John Frost, Joel Moss (WEBN), Eric Chase, all great writers. Like a movie or tv script, if the writing's not there even Pacino can't polish that turd. It all starts with good writing. The writing will dictate how it will be produced.
I'm sure the VO talents that frequent this board can attest to the crap they've had to read. And/or if they've ever worked at a station doing production, the crap a PD may have written.
Jeff Laurence was my VO at WTRG/Raleigh...hopefully my stuff wasn't crap?!!
I can't stand it when producers will write something, or a PD, and then toss in a drop that has nothing to do with what was/is being said.
If you have drops in mind for a project, WRITE AROUND THE DROP. Joel Moss is great at that. Moss is the granddaddy of rock imaging. He's been at it, at WEBN alone, since 1984. Pure theater.
It's ok to use them to sell your station, but it's not legal, ie copyright infringement, to use that same audio in a commercial for a client. Why? the client is deriving revenue off the usage of said copyrighted material, ie, the client doesn't own Harrison Ford's, or Homer's voice. Can't receive revenue via devices or images one doesn't own. Hence when someone uses Jennifer Lopez's likeness to sell a product, and they haven't paid her for the usage of her likeness, copyright infringement.
Same goes for music. Can't use a song...not even 5 seconds, for a client that hasn't paid for it's usage. Client must show proof that they've received permission.
I have a meeting every quarter with Sales, and when new staffers are hired, to go over copyright infringement, so that they understand it and can then pass it onto a client. I hate it when a vet, in this mid size market, will say "we've always done it this way" or "this client has always used the MNF theme for thier spots". I reply..well, you were breaking the law and putting the cluster, it's management, your client and this company at legal risk. They shut up quick!
And regarding using Simpsons (sooo old!) or Southpark, or some other overused drop in imaging - lame and tired. It's been going on like that since the '70s. Use audio from sources that aren't recognizable - burn factor is lower. Or as said below, use a drop in a way that it hasn't been used, ie "get down" from Han Solo for a disco promo.
Using real people, off the street audio, for liners instead of the VO guy is also a way to keep the produced VO stuff from burning.
Writing is key. John Frost, Joel Moss (WEBN), Eric Chase, all great writers. Like a movie or tv script, if the writing's not there even Pacino can't polish that turd. It all starts with good writing. The writing will dictate how it will be produced.
I'm sure the VO talents that frequent this board can attest to the crap they've had to read. And/or if they've ever worked at a station doing production, the crap a PD may have written.
Jeff Laurence was my VO at WTRG/Raleigh...hopefully my stuff wasn't crap?!!
I can't stand it when producers will write something, or a PD, and then toss in a drop that has nothing to do with what was/is being said.
If you have drops in mind for a project, WRITE AROUND THE DROP. Joel Moss is great at that. Moss is the granddaddy of rock imaging. He's been at it, at WEBN alone, since 1984. Pure theater.
Actually, using any movie/tv sound clip is copyright infringement. Commercial, imaging, whatever, it's illegal, BUT C&D's are extremely rare when it comes to that. As Dave Foxx said, "It's much easier to beg for forgiveness than ask permission."
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