VALLEY RADIO NEEDS AN OVERHAUL ASAP!! - Nevermind, I've given up

[TheBigA]

Take a look at the current Alternative chart in Billboard. Who is #1? Blink 182. They've been around since the grunge days. #2 on the chart is Red Hot Chili Peppers. They go back to the 80s. Also on that chart is Beck. These are three current acts with current music who have been around for over 25 years. The audience obviously accepts these acts, otherwise their songs wouldn't be charting. So why not throw in a classic song from that era every now and then? While I'm sure there are some who'd prefer ignoring older artists, but these are popular songs, by artists who clearly fit the format. They prove that the alternative audience has broader interests that just new music.

 

[johndavis]

You seem to be saying KDKB chooses to not fit the mold of the pure format. Why would that be? All we can assume is it is working as it is at this point. Maybe a competitor might come along. If nothing else, at least KDKB is not cookie cutter but a hybrid. They might not claim that but image themselves as something they are not compared to other examples of the format. There was a point when some top 40 stations, a format that was purely current material, started playing up to 60% non-current music. Then again, there were a few top 40 stations and each was jockeying for a certain segment of top 40 listeners. Some stations, not many, played songs that were 15 or more years old. At that point top 40 was reflecting one of the music trends where some music was not as universal in appeal.

Well, I'm not sure that I would call KDKB a success as an alternative station quite yet, but it's improving. Keep in mind that their GM has built a station like this before, and they are taking care to not cannibalize their other rock stations in the cluster, so what one person might call foolish they might call strategy.

And I'm old enough to remember KZZP, the market leading CHR of the day, playing The Beatles as gold, and the syndicated feature Goddard's Gold beginning as a weekend program on KZZP. But that was a different time in top 40, too. In the early 1980s there were fewer stations in the market and there was some creative dayparting going on to capture at-work listening at every station.

The complaint I hear in my market is the Alternative station is 1 to 3 years behind all the other stations. They play some older stuff too...not a bunch but some. Still they are consistently near the top every time. So far no competitor has shown up even though they're sure not cutting edge. Let's say they reflect proven trends versus creating or instigating them.

I'm in the same market as you. The primary difference here is that other than the classic rock station I jock for, KTBZ is the ONLY rock station left in the market. The Buzz doesn't have to innovate to win, and it can play a fairly broad mix of current rock because it's not fighting an "active rock" station for titles. Plus Hot AC isn't trying to poach all of its currents anymore. They almost have to play it safe to keep the waters murky enough for someone to not decide to flank them.

And yeah, you can set your watch by how often they spin Nirvana, too.

 

[b-turner]

Exactly. And that's my point. The Buzz is the only rock station. They do quite well doing what they do. They don't have to innovate but rather seek out consensus to keep the station successful. Years ago a GM told me a great station was one that only a small segment loved by most people found to be the best choice on the dial. His point was it's not about ground breaking but covering lots of ground. I'd prefer to be the ideal station to a few but the preferred choice of many. Even if there was a contender, the Buzz might do just fine doing what they do.

 

[johndavis]

But this brings forth a philosophical discussion that's been gnawing at me since Perry Simon snarked at the Conclave that radio has stopped innovating.

How do you define innovation in radio today? Is it formats? Digital creations? Sales processes? App development?

What does it mean to be innovative in 2016?

 

[TheBigA]

What does it mean to be innovative in 2016?

Those kinds of generalizations, like "Radio...this" have no meaning. We have a few thousand radio companies, and they're all doing different things.

Some are innovative, some are not. Every day I add a new song or new artist to a playlist, it's taking a chance.

HD Radio was innovative....you see how successful it was.

 

[johndavis]

HD Radio was innovative....you see how successful it was.

If we never took a chance on anything, there would never be a mid-chart stiff.

Or a mid-chart stiff that turns up testing like a monster years later.

 

[davideduardo]

How do you define innovation in radio today? Is it formats? Digital creations? Sales processes? App development?

What does it mean to be innovative in 2016?

More than that, what were some key innovations of the past? How big were they? How enduring were they? Here are a few innovations I thought about:

A major innovation like Todd Storz' and Bill Stewart's creation of Top 40 in 1952 depended as much on the growth of TV as THE entertainment medium as on the actual format. A flurry of new stations created a need. Add in the freedom to play recorded music following the changes at the AFM and the move was predictable.

Frank Cody and Owen Leach's 1987 creation of The Wave and, thus, smooth jazz seized on the need for a soft format when beautiful music died.

Bill Drake's tightening of Top 40 came about in no small part because existing stations had become loose, but to a greater extent because the format had almost completely stepped away from true MOR artists.

Progressive free-form rock was a format of opportunity in 1967 when the FCC forced and end to major market simulcasting; AMs with big cash flow wanted a format that would not cannibalize their revenue on AM. And it was not until the mid-70's when Lee Abrams reeled the free form aspect of the format in by incorporating time-tested Top 40 formatics that most stations became truly profitable.

Other innovations like satellite formats and voice tracking represent things we wish we could have done in the 50's but which had to wait for technology to actually be practical. Same goes for computer traffic and computerized music scheduling.

So there is no breakthrough invention; no revolution. Just evolution.

 

[CTListener]

Playing entire albums or album sides: an AOR staple in the '70s, especially late at night, gone by the end of the '80s. FCC/record industry pressure?

 

[b-turner]

I'd have to agree with David on that. Innovation is simply doing something outside the box enough to stand out. For LPFM I've tried the idea of single unit 10 second underwriting with online presence as a package for Underwriting to get away from the word Underwriting, explaining what it is and how you cannot make an exception in order to get a buy. While I proposed 6 units an hour, the breaks were never more than 15 seconds between songs on a music intensive format. Innovative? Not really but certainly out of the norm where most stations group units together and tend to go for 20-30 second Underwriting credits without anything online.

In top 40, Bill Drake was innovative in the presentation of the format (some say he destroyed personality radio).

I've always been conservative in programming decisions. Everything done for a good reason after calculating everything carefully.

 

[davideduardo]

Playing entire albums or album sides: an AOR staple in the '70s, especially late at night, gone by the end of the '80s. FCC/record industry pressure?

Nope. Just did not work any more. The feature was great in the cassette era. It died with the CD.

Since the DCMA and streaming, you can't do it anyway if you stream today.

 

[davideduardo]

Innovative? Not really but certainly out of the norm where most stations group units together and tend to go for 20-30 second Underwriting credits without anything online.

When I launched the first FM in Ecuador, most AMs had lots of commercials... many went up to 35 minutes an hour. So on the FM we went non-commercial for the first year, and then we limited spots to 6 20" units per hour, two minutes total, one every 3 musical selections. Within a few years, it was the #2 station in upper income level listening (which was all that mattered). Not an innovation, just a differentiation.

In top 40, Bill Drake was innovative in the presentation of the format (some say he destroyed personality radio).

Yet if you listened to Dale Dorman, Steele, Dr. Don Rose, Morgan and others you'd immediately see that they were more entertaining and personable than the long-winded guys on other stations.

I've always been conservative in programming decisions. Everything done for a good reason after calculating everything carefully.

Steps, not leaps.

My most daring move was in market where every station, out of 31, was block programmed with news, sports, talk, different kinds of music all in hour to two hour blocks. I did 24/7 Top 40 non-stop. Clients ignored us completely, other stations made fun of us. 6 months in, we had no billing. But 7th month brought ratings, and like so many first-in Top 40's, it was #1. Of course, I took the risk because I was 18 at the time and did not know any better. But the idea was not new... I borrowed from Storz and McLendon and Blore and Stewart and Sklar,

 

[thepumpin1]

If there was an opportunity to make money with an urban AC format, and with all the rimshot and limited facilities in the market, there is no reason why not to consider doing so.

However, with just 190,000 African American persons 12+ and the natural assumption that not all would listen to an urban AC format, we are likely left with perhaps a real cume of 80,000, give or take (and understanding that Urban AC has nearly no non-Black listening). Even assuming a longer than average TSL due to the uniqueness of the format, that would rank such a station around 30th or below.

A bit safer bet would be to do a modified Urban like KRRL in LA, but that is straight ahead urban / r&b / hip hop with a strong secondary appeal to Hispanics. There, you suddenly have the 5% Black plus over 30% Hispanic population. But, unlike LA which has a huge later generation Hispanic population, Phoenix has a much higher percentage of first generation Hispanics who, for all practical purposes, will not listen to r&b.

So at that point, you have to consider that nobody will put a full signal into this kind of low potential format. And using a rimshot may reduce the coverage of the higher density Black neighborhoods, so the full potential of a format won't be realized because not everyone can hear it.

It's all about economics and the ability to make money. If a specifically targeted African American station were viable, I would think that one of the existing marginal facilities would have tried it. Look to other markets that have low percentages of African Americans, such as San Antonio (6.6%) and you can see that efforts to do such a format in some form have either failed (as in the case of SAT) or not been tried or are even on a non-commercial station (Austin).

I get it. But what I am saying is, it doesn't have to be straight up Urban AC, it can be Smooth AC (with a SLIGHT Urban lean). In other words, play adult artists which cater to more than one audience. Hall and Oates, Gino Vannelli, Sam Smith, Ed Sheeran, Adele, Joe, Alicia Keys, Bruno Mars, Babyface, John Legend etc. Artists and songs that have been on Urban AND Popular charts, new and old school. You just have to adjust the playlist to the market. I really think a WAVE type station would work in the valley AND it would make money. There just has to be some work put in. It is a nightmare in the valley for someone in my age group to find a station that caters to my listening needs. I am NOWHERE near the age of 55. Granted, I can listen to Kiss 104.7, Live 101.5 or Power 98.3. But I don't want to hear hip-hop or pop on a consistent basis. I want to hear some "grown folks" music. I am not a teeny bopper, nor am I an old man. I don't think I am the only African-American resident in the valley who feels this way.

 

[b-turner]

I doubt you are alone. And the plan sounds good, to center on songs that are known across format boundaries. For example, here in Houston we have a station operated by talent from the now defunct heritage AM Urban station. Music programming is done so well. While they seem to target the 50+ audience, the music selection has appeal to virtually all that grew up in the era. Songs tend to be those that were played on Urban and Top 40 stations when they were popular. Unlike some stations that might take this route, not all songs are performed by African Americans but are played because they are know and appreciated. Sure, you won't hear Summer Breeze by Seals and Crofts but rather by the Isley Brothers which got plenty of top 40 airplay where I lived. And man do they sound good, excellent presentation by well seasoned talent that knows how to do things right.

In looking like a market like Phoenix, the investment in radio is so much, the risk factor has to be as close to zero as possible. What I'm saying is it might be able to work but is there research and living breathing examples of success in markets remotely similar to Phoenix to make the risk worth taking. That's not to say the best researched and proven format is not also a risk but rather if there is enough to convince the financial backing this is enough of a sure thing to give it a shot.

As for me, a white guy, I see the WAVE style format as one that is sophisticated, attracting the upper incomes are attractive to a potential advertiser. So much is by the numbers, I wonder how that would work out. Still it is very much something that needs some good research. If Douglas is still running a station in Phoenix maybe they should look at it.

 

[indieradioguy]

In looking like a market like Phoenix, the investment in radio is so much, the risk factor has to be as close to zero as possible. What I'm saying is it might be able to work but is there research and living breathing examples of success in markets remotely similar to Phoenix to make the risk worth taking. That's not to say the best researched and proven format is not also a risk but rather if there is enough to convince the financial backing this is enough of a sure thing to give it a shot.

Alt 90's "gold." Obviously, some MD's think people want to hear OLD Blink-182 and OLD Red Hot Chili Peppers in constant rotation alongside "NEW" music, that hearing "What's My Age Again" and "Islands In The Sun" for the billionth time makes for good radio. There are all-90's Sirius/XM channels -- and so it doesn't take The Amazing Kreskin to figure out what the next viable format will be. You're talking about a demo that has the disposable income to drop thousands of dollars on Coachella. Who wouldn't want a slice of that pie?

 

[TheBigA]

Alt 90's "gold." Obviously, some MD's think people want to hear OLD Blink-182 and OLD Red Hot Chili Peppers in constant rotation alongside "NEW" music,

Once again, take a look at the chart. Who do you see? Obviously lots of people are driving this idea, not just some MDs.

I'll say this: If the current crop of alt artists could get a fraction of the success the older guys had, you'd have a format of all currents.

 

[CTListener]

Alt 90's "gold." Obviously, some MD's think people want to hear OLD Blink-182 and OLD Red Hot Chili Peppers in constant rotation alongside "NEW" music, that hearing "What's My Age Again" and "Islands In The Sun" for the billionth time makes for good radio. There are all-90's Sirius/XM channels -- and so it doesn't take The Amazing Kreskin to figure out what the next viable format will be. You're talking about a demo that has the disposable income to drop thousands of dollars on Coachella. Who wouldn't want a slice of that pie?

There are also multiple EDM channels, an all-opera channel, an all-bluegrass channel and an all-reggae channel on SiriusXM. They might have low six-figures listenership among the service's about 30 million subscribers (not counting duplicate radios owned by the same subscriber and radios sitting activated but unlistened-to in unsold cars on dealer lots, all of which SXM counts as "subscribers") scattered all over the US and Canada. Maybe the audience for '90s on 9, Lithium and other '90s-centric channels is slightly bigger than those, but still, name me a market where there are enough people demanding such a format for it to work. Then try to sell that format's demos to the advertisers and the agencies. .

 

[TheBigA]

Then try to sell that format's demos to the advertisers and the agencies. .

Actually the demos are sellable, but we get a higher number of people in that demo with other formats. It's always about value.

But yes, this is why the format works better for non-commercial radio or satellite.

 

[Saladressing]

Thought it would be interesting to test out the hypothesis I read in this thread that in the 1990s more currents were played on alt. radio so I did a random analysis. This is an aircheck from 1995 on then-alternative 93.7 The Edge in Minneapolis:

Aircheck KEGE 93.7 The Edge Minneapolis 1995
Soundgarden "Fell on Black Days" (Released 1995)
10,000 Maniacs "Like the Weather" (Released 1987)
Blues Traveler "Runaround" (Released 1995)
L7 "Pretend We're Dead" (Released 1992)
Aimee Mann "That's Just What You Are" (Released 1995)
Average Release Year: 1993 (2 years prior)

Last 5 songs played on Alt AZ 93.3 in Phoenix for comparison sake:

Aircheck KDKB Alt AZ 93.3 Phoenix 2016
No Doubt "Don't Speak" (Released 1995)
Andrew McMahon in the Wilderness "Cecelia and the Satellite" (Released 2014)
Jet "Are You Gonna Be My Girl" (Released 2003)
Hozier "Take Me to Church" (Released 2014)
Sublime "Santeria" (Released 1996)
Average Release Year: 2004 (12 years prior)

I didn't know where the hypothesis would lead and therefore am not posting this in an effort to prove or disprove anyone's point.

 

[TheBigA]

What current alternative band is as big today as Soundgarden or Blues Traveler was in 1995? That has the same impact, the same sales, the same name recognition? Not many. It's hard to build a commercial radio format around a genre of music that isn't attracting mass audiences.

 

[Saladressing]

A playlist's average release date is just one factor in a myriad of issues relating to the success potential of an alt. radio station. Even so, I thought it would be fun to test out the hypothesis.