• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Vancouver's 50,000 Watt AM Stations

louis_p said:
It’s likely due to the topography of the region. Most of the Vancouver stations send strong signals west and south to the outskirts of Seattle but quickly fade out as you travel east approaching Abbotsford.
Click to expand...
I always found this to be rather interesting. It seems like most of the AMs in Seattle do a good job of covering the entire market well. There are always weak spots here and there, but aside from a few notable examples, there aren’t any major nulls. You’re absolutely correct about the topography of the lower mainland. Most of the power is thrown any direction BUT east, and thus resulting in interference for those who don’t live closer to the market.

Ironically, 1040 and 1410 seemed to be best suited for throwing some power east (based on the coverage maps alone). Of course, those stations are now long gone.

Vancouver is an interesting market for broadcasting. The amount of land that these stations need to cover is not huge. With that being said, it’s difficult to cover all of it (on AM and FM). Most of the market is served just fine, but there are pockets that experience reception issues. Eastern lying areas struggle with AM reception. Horseshoe bay, west Vancouver, and (in a much more extreme example) Lions Bay struggle with FM.
 
I had a chance to tune into 1550 on my drive home from work today. It sounded awful. Extremely weak, and with poor audio quality. 1600 sounded loud and clear in contrast. 1550 is probably just trying to stay on the air.
 
fordranger797 said:
I had a chance to tune into 1550 on my drive home from work today. It sounded awful. Extremely weak, and with poor audio quality. 1600 sounded loud and clear in contrast. 1550 is probably just trying to stay on the air.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how "border blaster" stations function these days. If they are religious, then that makes sense. Preachers buy time on your station and seek donations on their programs. You can set up a P.O. box or website in Canada to get your donations.

But how about ethnic stations? If you play South Asian music and speak in Hindi, Punjabi, etc., how do you make a profit? South Asian businesses in Vancouver don't get a tax break from spending money on ads on U.S. stations but they do from Canadian stations. And Vancouver has several ethnic stations. I don't think these U.S.-based South Asian stations are seeking donations. So are advertisers willing to forego the tax break just to be on AM 1550 or AM 1600?
 
Gregg. said:
I'm not sure how "border blaster" stations function these days. If they are religious, then that makes sense. Preachers buy time on your station and seek donations on their programs. You can set up a P.O. box or website in Canada to get your donations.

But how about ethnic stations? If you play South Asian music and speak in Hindi, Punjabi, etc., how do you make a profit? South Asian businesses in Vancouver don't get a tax break from spending money on ads on U.S. stations but they do from Canadian stations. And Vancouver has several ethnic stations. I don't think these U.S.-based South Asian stations are seeking donations. So are advertisers willing to forego the tax break just to be on AM 1550 or AM 1600?
Click to expand...
You raise a very good question. As I recall, these stations received attention from the Canadian government at one point in time, because they were not playing by the rules laid out by the CRTC.

At the same time, I can definitely see why these broadcasters are using border blasters to achieve their mission. The rules established by the CRTC seem to make it pretty difficult for a station broadcasting in a language that isn’t English or French to air the programming that they want to air. There’s a massive population of Punjabi speakers in close proximity to the border that they want to target.
 
I think those of us who don't speak the language tend to lump all of the Punjab stations in the market into one format. But to the targeted listeners I suspect that the stations are just as different as English speaking stations are to the rest of us. I think they all serve different demographics and there seems to be enough advertising dollars to go around, even with the tax restrictions. I hear a robust number of ads on all of these stations in the Vancouver market, including the three border blasters. (There is just enough English in the ads for me to tell that they are ads.)

Maybe the US-based stations charge 30% less for the spots to make up for the lack of tax incentives. I do not know.
 
The New Chico said:
I think those of us who don't speak the language tend to lump all of the Punjab stations in the market into one format. But to the targeted listeners I suspect that the stations are just as different as English speaking stations are to the rest of us. I think they all serve different demographics and there seems to be enough advertising dollars to go around, even with the tax restrictions. I hear a robust number of ads on all of these stations in the Vancouver market, including the three border blasters. (There is just enough English in the ads for me to tell that they are ads.)

Maybe the US-based stations charge 30% less for the spots to make up for the lack of tax incentives. I do not know.
Click to expand...
I’m not an expert on how this business operates, but I would imagine that the prices for spots wouldn’t vary that much. Obviously, CKYE is probably going to be more expensive for advertising, but I would guess that the prices for spots on 1550 and 1600 wouldn’t be far off from their local AM rivals on 600 and 1200.

1550 and 1600 operate very much like any local radio station. The only difference is that the actual transmission site is in Whatcom County. The fact that these broadcasters pay for a lease on a transmission site in the USA creates a massive grey area, but the business model seems to be working (so far).
 
The four US Punjabi stations targeting Southern BC (KRPI, KVRI, KRPA, KWLE) hold some unique advantages. They do not have to follow Canadian Content rules and they"re much freer to talk about provincial/city politics than the stations under the thumb of CRTC. Many times I hear discussions about Surrey council or even the Khalistan conflict, perhaps too edgy Spice Radio.
(I do not speak Hindi or Punjabi but the announcers frequently "code-switch" into English.)
 
RF101 said:
The four US Punjabi stations targeting Southern BC (KRPI, KVRI, KRPA, KWLE) hold some unique advantages. They do not have to follow Canadian Content rules and they"re much freer to talk about provincial/city politics than the stations under the thumb of CRTC. Many times I hear discussions about Surrey council or even the Khalistan conflict, perhaps too edgy Spice Radio.
(I do not speak Hindi or Punjabi but the announcers frequently "code-switch" into English.)
Click to expand...
You’re absolutely correct about that. There’s a bit more latitude with what they can cover and talk about.

Also, it’s worth noting that the Indian population in Surrey BC is very heavily dominated by folks with roots in the Punjab state of India. These border blasters air content that targets this (very large) community. If I were a Punjabi speaker, or someone who came from the Punjab, I would appreciate some sort of service that broadcasts issues that matter to me, in my language, 24/7. This can’t be done on the other local Vancouver stations, as there are third language requirements that need to be fulfilled.
 
RF101 said:
The four US Punjabi stations targeting Southern BC (KRPI, KVRI, KRPA, KWLE) hold some unique advantages. They do not have to follow Canadian Content rules and they"re much freer to talk about provincial/city politics than the stations under the thumb of CRTC. Many times I hear discussions about Surrey council or even the Khalistan conflict, perhaps too edgy Spice Radio.
(I do not speak Hindi or Punjabi but the announcers frequently "code-switch" into English.)
Click to expand...
You list four stations targeting British Columbia. KRPI and KVRI are 50,000 watts days and 10,000 watts nights. But KRPA Oak Harbor and KWLE Anacortes are only 1,000 watts and 500 watts respectively. They both also have FM translators. I doubt the AM stations or the FM translators can be heard in the Vancouver area. Yet how many South Asians live in Oak Harbor or Anacortes? Who are they targeting?

But you're right that even ethnic stations in Canada I suppose are subject to Can Con rules. And I'd imagine the CRTC looks at what languages they plan to broadcast in and tell them they have to add others. Even the Cantonese and Mandarin stations have to air weekend shows for other ethnic groups like Armenians and Poles. The U.S. stations can be 24/7 Punjabi.
 
Gregg. said:
You list four stations targeting British Columbia. KRPI and KVRI are 50,000 watts days and 10,000 watts nights. But KRPA Oak Harbor and KWLE Anacortes are only 1,000 watts and 500 watts respectively. They both also have FM translators. I doubt the AM stations or the FM translators can be heard in the Vancouver area. Yet how many South Asians live in Oak Harbor or Anacortes? Who are they targeting?

But you're right that even ethnic stations in Canada I suppose are subject to Can Con rules. And I'd imagine the CRTC looks at what languages they plan to broadcast in and tell them they have to add others. Even the Cantonese and Mandarin stations have to air weekend shows for other ethnic groups like Armenians and Poles. The U.S. stations can be 24/7 Punjabi.
Click to expand...
I’m actually surprised that we haven’t seen an example of a border blaster airing content in Mandarin or Cantonese. To be fair, there’s almost always programming available in these languages within the Vancouver market between 96.1 and 1470 (which trade off between Mandarin and Cantonese shows). There’s also 1320. However, all of these stations still have to follow the CRTC guidelines for foreign language programming. And of course, you’re stuck with the programming whether you like it or not.

It’s a different story within the Punjabi speaking community where you have 93.1 targeting the younger audience with current popular music (while content that is attractive to older listeners can be found on 1550 or 1600).

I actually can listen to 1110 on my car radio driving around the lower mainland. It doesn’t sound great, but it comes in a lot better than you might expect. I personally think this station targets Victoria more than Vancouver or Surrey, where there is also a population of potential listeners. In Victoria, it probably sounds pretty decent.
 
KRPA upgraded to 9kw Days / 2.5kw Nights , directional two-tower. The !KRPA beam is towards the norrhwest. KWLE is non-directional 1kw. Thanks to mostly water paths these AMs do reach into Lower BC, albeit not the strongest. Victoria might seem a better target for KWLE.
 
fordranger797 said:
As I recall, 1130 CKWX is also susceptible to interference if you’re located in the eastern portion of the Fraser valley. Something about the night pattern makes it difficult to pick up clearly, despite being a class A signal. I’m not a broadcast engineer, but it seems like it’s challenging for most of the Vancouver AMs to reach the entire region, as a lot of the power seems to be directed west and northwest to prevent interference on other co-channels.
Click to expand...
KQRR Mt. Angel (between Salem & Portland) runs 25 kW daytime on 1130, directional north through west.
They hammer CKWX after sunrise and before sunset for short periods. In winter they cause interference quite a bit of the day.
 
boiseengineer said:
KQRR Mt. Angel (between Salem & Portland) runs 25 kW daytime on 1130, directional north through west.
They hammer CKWX after sunrise and before sunset for short periods. In winter they cause interference quite a bit of the day.
Click to expand...
That interference on 1130 from KQRR makes CKWX unlistenable for large portions of the day for at least six months of the year. And not just in the hour before local sunset, especially in the rainy and overcast months. This happens in the Seattle area, and all the way until you're pratically on top of their transmitter site, a bit north of the border near Hwy 99.
Since KQRR is directionalized from south of Portland to the north, it essentially wipes out the only all-news station in the region. A type of radio "warfare" not unlike old Soviet era signal jamming is the result.
I have even heard significant interference to CKWX INSIDE the Canadian border at Abbotsford a couple of hours pre-sunset, when KQRR drops power and the problem suddenly goes away. It hasn't changed at all since it started.
I don't know why the licensee of CKWX didn't petition for an international requirement for KQRR to reduce power during "critical hours." This is an example of why such a reduction before the regular nighttime power drop is needed for some high power directional AM set ups.
I for one really do want to listen to them, and benefit from their coverage. Even tho' I live in the Seattle area. And especially find it helpful to listen to when I'm on I-5, heading toward Canada. But Russian language hymns popping in over a City News 1130 traffic and weather update on the 1s really doesn't serve anyone's interest. It's just another example of the kind of signal issues that have driven people away from radio, particularly the AM band, which has few other general interest stations with live announcers and a news format.
I tried bringing it up years ago to the FCC field office in Redmond when KQRR first started causing interference, to ask what could be done to remedy the problem. The person who answered the phone didn't care and offered no way for me to make an official complaint.
Do any of your remember those couple of months after the licensee of KQRR reported they were shutting down the station, due to lack of revenue? I wonder how that changed and they powered up again after a few months., with the same Russian language Pentecostal religious programming. Seems to be an odd choice for funding a 50kw multi-tower transmitter, and knocking an all-news signal down to an unusable crush of noise for many potential listeners. Who really benefits from that?
 
Goldilocks94941 said:
That interference on 1130 from KQRR makes CKWX unlistenable for large portions of the day for at least six months of the year. And not just in the hour before local sunset, especially in the rainy and overcast months. This happens in the Seattle area, and all the way until you're pratically on top of their transmitter site, a bit north of the border near Hwy 99.
Since KQRR is directionalized from south of Portland to the north, it essentially wipes out the only all-news station in the region. A type of radio "warfare" not unlike old Soviet era signal jamming is the result.
I have even heard significant interference to CKWX INSIDE the Canadian border at Abbotsford a couple of hours pre-sunset, when KQRR drops power and the problem suddenly goes away. It hasn't changed at all since it started.
I don't know why the licensee of CKWX didn't petition for an international requirement for KQRR to reduce power during "critical hours." This is an example of why such a reduction before the regular nighttime power drop is needed for some high power directional AM set ups.
I for one really do want to listen to them, and benefit from their coverage. Even tho' I live in the Seattle area. And especially find it helpful to listen to when I'm on I-5, heading toward Canada. But Russian language hymns popping in over a City News 1130 traffic and weather update on the 1s really doesn't serve anyone's interest. It's just another example of the kind of signal issues that have driven people away from radio, particularly the AM band, which has few other general interest stations with live announcers and a news format.
I tried bringing it up years ago to the FCC field office in Redmond when KQRR first started causing interference, to ask what could be done to remedy the problem. The person who answered the phone didn't care and offered no way for me to make an official complaint.
Do any of your remember those couple of months after the licensee of KQRR reported they were shutting down the station, due to lack of revenue? I wonder how that changed and they powered up again after a few months., with the same Russian language Pentecostal religious programming. Seems to be an odd choice for funding a 50kw multi-tower transmitter, and knocking an all-news signal down to an unusable crush of noise for many potential listeners. Who really benefits from that?
Click to expand...
Unless KQRR interferes with CKWX on Canadian soil, there's not a lot that can be done here. The same international treaties that allow for signals like 860 in Portland (on a Canadian clear channel) apply here: there's no protection for Canadian daytime AM signals on US soil, or vice versa.

And there's no way, really, to carve out an exception in an international treaty for one specific situation. (Nor, I suspect, does Rogers really care about reaching any "potential listeners" in Washington that it has no way to monetize. As long as CKWX overpowers KQRR on BC soil, which it does, that's all that matters to them.)
 
The upgrade of 1110 Oak Harbor seems pretty much designed to hit Victoria. I heard two ads for Victoria businesses yesterday when I was down in that area. This was during a very brief listen. (And another one for some business in Kent WA, so who knows? Not much signal going S towards Kent, but given I could not figure out what they were selling impossible to say what was going on there.

Not sure the thinking on KWLE. Maybe they were hoping to hopscotch the translator to Blaine? If so, that plan seems to have stalled about 15 miles short.
 
The New Chico said:
The upgrade of 1110 Oak Harbor seems pretty much designed to hit Victoria. I heard two ads for Victoria businesses yesterday when I was down in that area. This was during a very brief listen. (And another one for some business in Kent WA, so who knows? Not much signal going S towards Kent, but given I could not figure out what they were selling impossible to say what was going on there.

Not sure the thinking on KWLE. Maybe they were hoping to hopscotch the translator to Blaine? If so, that plan seems to have stalled about 15 miles short.
Click to expand...
Any FM translator they could use would be entirely useless. The Blaine translator for 550 is not what I would call listenable unless you’re very close to the transmitter. At my apartment in Richmond KJEB comes in crystal clear. Move the radio around and you might hear KARI’s translator, but you won’t hear much.
 
RF101 said:
Regarding KRPA's coverage the entire engineering paperwork is here:

It looks like the beam , albeit fairly wide, is aimed at 320º. Victoria makes sense but Vancouver remains well-covered.

Bustos' KQRR did downgrade to 25 kw from 50 kw due to initial complaints. I guess the interference remains although not as much.
Click to expand...
As for CKWX: based on their coverage map, they don’t throw enough power southeast to provide optimal coverage to someone who would want to listen in a place like marysville, Everett (or anywhere else that might *seem* close enough to hear 1130). It wouldn’t matter anyway since these areas are far outside of the region they need to cover, but this certainly explains why KQRR is able to sneak in.

The only argument that can be made is if there are still interference issues within the Fraser valley. From the sound of it, it seems like KQRR already reduced power in an effort to prevent this interference (though it’s debatable as to whether or not the problem is “solved”). Either way, Abbotsford is an example of a location that’s within the reasonable listening area of CKWX, but receives a weaker signal thanks to the unfavourable coverage pattern. I can definitely see why there would be some issues during certain parts of the day (likely right around the time when CKWX switches to the night pattern).

As for KWLE: I’d be curious to see how this station comes in if you were to drive around Victoria. Obviously, I don’t think it would be as clear as a local like CFAX, but it might be listenable. 1110 is by far a better signal.
 


Back
Top Bottom