Viable Solution For The Mediabase CHR/Pop panel

[atlantaboy]

I personally love the song, but it doesn't fit with the majority of the music on CHR today.

Lol follow this line of thinking, and everything on the CHR chart will sound exactly the same

If you only want to play what's Rhythmic (because it "fits"), then move to the Rhythmic panel and be proud of it - but don't start claiming that you play "all the hits"

 

[atlantaboy]

"Pop" stations shouldn't be FORCED to play Adele or Pink. That is completely asanine- its poor business and sloppy programming, and it shows a lack of regard for one's audience to play what either isn't testing well in your market or on your station.

Sorry but you really seem to be missing something here - if the only songs that test well with your target audience are Rhythmic songs, then guess what? Your target audience is Rhythmic!

 

[justpassingthough]

I personally love the song, but it doesn't fit with the majority of the music on CHR today.

Lol follow this line of thinking, and everything on the CHR chart will sound exactly the same

If you only want to play what's Rhythmic (because it "fits"), then move to the Rhythmic panel and be proud of it - but don't start claiming that you play "all the hits"

Pink "Perfect" fits with Pitbull or Usher or Wiz Khalifa because, even though she isn't a rhythmic artist, her sound is fresh and young. Adele, on the other hand, appeals to a slightly older demographic- more than likely- so it makes less sense for many (not all) mainstream CHRs to add the song.

The blanket statement at the start of this thread spoke of 'tests' such as add the Adele song or be considered a rhythmic station. I wasn't the one throwing out ultimatums that are laughable and trying to pass them off as sound advice.

 

[justpassingthough]

"Pop" stations shouldn't be FORCED to play Adele or Pink. That is completely asanine- its poor business and sloppy programming, and it shows a lack of regard for one's audience to play what either isn't testing well in your market or on your station.

Sorry but you really seem to be missing something here - if the only songs that test well with your target audience are Rhythmic songs, then guess what? Your target audience is Rhythmic!

I'm not missing anything here. You have a complete bias towards songs and artists that are non-rhythmic. Thats fine, tastes are subjective, you obviously tend to like more music that isn't rhythmic. What you're missing, though, is that rhythmic music (whether it be hip hop, R&B, various forms of dance/electronic) are the predominant forms of "popular" music right now (as of April 26, 2011), so yes, most mainstream CHRs stations will sound "rhythmic".

This doesn't mean that any or all CHR stations that lean rhythmic should be moved to the rhythmic panel. There is more to a station than its music rotation. Your argument is from the standpoint of a listener, while radio stations are run as a business. Your argument discounts marketing, audience, sales, promotions, etc-- which in combination with music rotation make a station.

I know we have had this same argument regarding KAMP. KPWR and KAMP share almost identical playlists, but one is a mainstream CHR and one is rhythmic- ask anyone who works at these stations, whether it be in sales, marketing, etc. and they can tell you the differences between the stations, regardless of whether 80% of their current music rotation is the same.

 

[atlantaboy]

Adele, on the other hand, appeals to a slightly older demographic- more than likely- so it makes less sense for many (not all) mainstream CHRs to add the song.

This is an assumption you're making though, and I don't think it's true at all

On Rate The Music.com, Adele comes in 4th among females 18-34, an 8th among females 18-24 - if massive numbers of stations weren't getting high callout from it (among young listeners), it wouldn't be rocketing up the CHR chart like it is

 

[atlantaboy]

What you're missing, though, is that rhythmic music (whether it be hip hop, R&B, various forms of dance/electronic) are the predominant forms of "popular" music right now (as of April 26, 2011), so yes, most mainstream CHRs stations will sound "rhythmic".

My concern is that if young people are only exposed to rhythmic-leaning music, then nothing else even has a chance to become popular. Look at the huge numbers of young people that suddenly downloaded "Uprising" by Muse after James Durbin performed it on American Idol (and didn't even know it existed before that), or the huge numbers of young people that downloaded "The Cave" by Mumford & Sons after it was performed on the Grammy Awards

If programmers of stations that target young people become stuck in a cycle like you're describing (i. e. rhythmic music is the most popular, and anything else sounds "out of place"), nothing else is ever going to break though

 

[fmradio1]

Getting back to the original topic...

R&R and Billboard back in the day had their criteria for stations to be included in a particular format panel based on percentages, NOT on styles of music. I'm sure the Mediabase panels use similar guidelines. The two major areas are current/recurrent/gold percentages, and percentage of songs from the national CHR chart a station is playing at any one time.

For example, and i'm estimating here, a CHR/Mainstream station would probably have to be a minimum of 70% current, 15% recurrent and 15% gold. Obviously if they wanted to be more current, they could be. Further, they would have to play maybe sixty percent of the national Top 40 singles and possibly 75 percent of the Top 20. There's a LOT of wiggle room there. Stations can stay away from polarizing songs that don't fit their version of the format and still make the criteria. This goes for rhythmic leaning stations, like a WFHN/New Bedford, or outlets that lean Hot AC, such as WSTW/Wilmington. Plus, you can add enough songs to fit the guidelines, but that doesn't mean you spin them equally.

Other formats have similar rules for reporting to those panels as well. Periodically the panel moderators will look at the playlists from their stations and if a station changes its sound to where it doesn't fit the criteria for a format, it can be moved to another format or dropped altogether.

 

[Dkampy]

Adele, on the other hand, appeals to a slightly older demographic- more than likely- so it makes less sense for many (not all) mainstream CHRs to add the song.

Except Adele Seems to be working on most CHR stations right now...it is only the most extreme rhythmic stations that are not on it...seems to be making sense

 

[justpassingthough]

What you're missing, though, is that rhythmic music (whether it be hip hop, R&B, various forms of dance/electronic) are the predominant forms of "popular" music right now (as of April 26, 2011), so yes, most mainstream CHRs stations will sound "rhythmic".

My concern is that if young people are only exposed to rhythmic-leaning music, then nothing else even has a chance to become popular. Look at the huge numbers of young people that suddenly downloaded "Uprising" by Muse after James Durbin performed it on American Idol (and didn't even know it existed before that), or the huge numbers of young people that downloaded "The Cave" by Mumford & Sons after it was performed on the Grammy Awards

If programmers of stations that target young people become stuck in a cycle like you're describing (i. e. rhythmic music is the most popular, and anything else sounds "out of place"), nothing else is ever going to break though

I understand your concern, and while I agree that balance on CHR stations is better, it should be a steadfast rule for CHR stations to play songs that may not appeal to their audience.

Many CHR stations avoided rhythmic songs in the mid/late 90s, yet rhythmic still become the dominant form of music over the past 10 years. My point being that just because people aren't exposed to different sounds, artists, etc on CHR stations, doesn't mean that they don't hear it elsewhere. This has to be even more try in 2011 than in 1998, as there a number of ways to hear music now that didn't exist back then.

So while I get your concern, I think its a little overblown. CHR works in cycles, rhythmic is popular now, in the form of hip hop and R&B. We are already seeing a shift towards dance and electronic music in some markets, though, so who knows where CHR will end up. I'm sure that rock and adult rock will have their day in the sun once again.

 

[atlantaboy]

So while I get your concern, I think its a little overblown. CHR works in cycles, rhythmic is popular now, in the form of hip hop and R&B.

So what does it mean to you that Adele is 4th right now on Rate The Music.com 18-34 females, beating out tons of rhythmic/dance hits? I just think you need to ask yourself whether you as a programmer are shaping, or snowballing these "cycles" or whether they're truly coming from the listeners

Seems to me CHR listeners (in many markets) want to hear something with a different sound, and you're the one resisting it

 

[justpassingthough]

So while I get your concern, I think its a little overblown. CHR works in cycles, rhythmic is popular now, in the form of hip hop and R&B.

So what does it mean to you that Adele is 4th right now on Rate The Music.com 18-34 females, beating out tons of rhythmic/dance hits? I just think you need to ask yourself whether you as a programmer are shaping, or snowballing these "cycles" or whether they're truly coming from the listeners

Seems to me CHR listeners (in many markets) want to hear something with a different sound, and you're the one resisting it

Radio is a business- so when they see a shift in the marketplace- they will respond because it will affect their bottom line if they don't respond. Females 18 to 34 heavily favor rhythmic music right now, which is why its popular on mainstream CHRs. If these listeners bailed for other formats, whether it be country, Hot AC or alternative, or Polka, and it was making a noticeable dent in their PPM numbers, mainstream CHRs would/will respond accordingly. Programmers have no loyalty to the music- their loyalty is to profitablity first.

 

[carolinaradio]

So while I get your concern, I think its a little overblown. CHR works in cycles, rhythmic is popular now, in the form of hip hop and R&B.

So what does it mean to you that Adele is 4th right now on Rate The Music.com 18-34 females, beating out tons of rhythmic/dance hits? I just think you need to ask yourself whether you as a programmer are shaping, or snowballing these "cycles" or whether they're truly coming from the listeners

Seems to me CHR listeners (in many markets) want to hear something with a different sound, and you're the one resisting it

Radio is a business- so when they see a shift in the marketplace- they will respond because it will affect their bottom line if they don't respond. Females 18 to 34 heavily favor rhythmic music right now, which is why its popular on mainstream CHRs. If these listeners bailed for other formats, whether it be country, Hot AC or alternative, or Polka, and it was making a noticeable dent in their PPM numbers, mainstream CHRs would/will respond accordingly. Programmers have no loyalty to the music- their loyalty is to profitablity first.

Agree. If you don't like the rhythmic/dance/pop/whatever that CHR is currently embracing, most larger markets have Hot AC's and Adult CHR's that fill that void. I don't understand why this is such an issue. For the most part, CHR is doing great right now, so whatever they are playing is working.

 

[Wildstyle K]

Programmers have no loyalty to the music- their loyalty is to profitablity first.

I doubt that this is 100% true (unless some people who I'll let remain nameless are lying about their actions). I'm sure if there are any songs that a pd doesn't necessarily HAVE to play that they also aren't too fond of, they will pass on it if they can. I'm also sure that pd's can "skew" or favor certain styles slightly - as long as the overall presentation still works...

In many cases, if there are more than one "direction / style" of a particular format that a pd could use with equal success, they'll most likely skew towards which ever style they favor most, even if it's going only as far as a one song difference.

As I've mentioned before, there is/are people on here who have openly admitted to not adding certain tracks they felt were unworthy if they didn't have to, and even going as far as editing certain songs shorter because they felt the song "wasn't worthy of its length".

It may be profitability first, but if possible, I can guarantee that in addition to the profit, people will always try to "be clever" and get the most desire out of whatever it is they are profiting from as well by whatever means necessary, even if that includes skewing a format to the slightest degree.

Some programmers may be 100% indifferent about the music and strictly go based by "the rules and statistics", but that doesn't mean ALL are indifferent. There are always "loopholes".. and sometimes they are "safe" and work, and sometimes they backfire. The ones that work normally tend to go undetected and blend in with "normalcy". As a matter of fact, I'd say that all programmers skew to a degree because notice how no two programmers ever sound or think alike, and all have different ideas on what shall specifically be done in a particular format.

People always seem to forget about the "loopholes" that exist... there are ways to "bend the rules" (if you want to call it that). If there wasn't, then there'd also be no accusing of anyone "sticking to the books" or "playing it safe" or "being mediocre".

 

[atlantaboy]

If these listeners bailed for other formats, whether it be country, Hot AC or alternative, or Polka, and it was making a noticeable dent in their PPM numbers, mainstream CHRs would/will respond accordingly.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make - most mainstream CHRs are adding Adele (because that's what their listeners want to hear), and you're posting that they shouldn't be doing this because it's "sloppy programming" and because it doesn't "fit" with the rest of the rhythmic mix

Females 18-34 want Adele, so CHRs are playing Adele - I don't understand what the problem is

 

[saradio1]

I think the real test will be Adele's "Rolling in the Deep"...this is the it song of the moment...if these so called CHR/mainstream station don't at least add this...they should be on the Rhythmic panel.

KTFM has been playing the Dance version for few weeks now.

There's a DANCE version of this? Not that I've even heard any version of it yet, but... really?

I probably should start listening to KZZP more often... but I just can't get off of KZON!

Here's the version KTFM plays... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGew5cxjhS8

Party 97.7(also in SA) is playing the same version.

 

[justpassingthough]

If these listeners bailed for other formats, whether it be country, Hot AC or alternative, or Polka, and it was making a noticeable dent in their PPM numbers, mainstream CHRs would/will respond accordingly.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make - most mainstream CHRs are adding Adele (because that's what their listeners want to hear), and you're posting that they shouldn't be doing this because it's "sloppy programming" and because it doesn't "fit" with the rest of the rhythmic mix

Females 18-34 want Adele, so CHRs are playing Adele - I don't understand what the problem is

I don't disagree that CHRs should add Adele. Its an outstanding record from a truly talented artist. I only argue that not ALL CHRs should be forced to add songs like these or be forever banished to the Rhythmic panel. Adele is appropriate for certain CHRs in certain markets more so than some stations in some markets.

My disagreement in this entire thread is that I don't think CHR should be cookie cutter in the sense that every CHR in every market should play all or most of the chart. I think the chart should reflect what CHRs across the country are playing, not the other way around. CHRs in some markets will ignore country crossovers or lite alternative, or hip hop, and so on and so forth- but the tabulation of spins is a better indicator of which songs are popular than when done in reverse.

The method you advocate- where stations play what is on the chart- is inorganic. It forces stations to play songs that may not "naturally" be hits in the market.

 

[atlantaboy]

^Oh now I understand what you're saying... (sorry...)

I agree with you that stations shouldn't feel forced to play any particular songs, except that I think if ALL the songs a pop station chooses to play are Rhythmic (and charting on Rhythmic), it belongs on the Rhythmic panel, just like if ALL songs a pop station chooses to play are Alternative, it belongs on the Alternative panel - and for me, the number of Rhythmic, Alternative, Hot AC songs etc. that happen to be on the pop chart at the time is irrelevant

I guess I also don't understand why you're looking at reporting to the Rhythmic panel as being "banished" - the Rhythmic format isn't inferior to CHR/Pop - it's just a different format

 

[justpassingthough]

^Oh now I understand what you're saying... (sorry...)

I agree with you that stations shouldn't feel forced to play any particular songs, except that I think if ALL the songs a pop station chooses to play are Rhythmic (and charting on Rhythmic), it belongs on the Rhythmic panel, just like if ALL songs a pop station chooses to play are Alternative, it belongs on the Alternative panel - and for me, the number of Rhythmic, Alternative, Hot AC songs etc. that happen to be on the pop chart at the time is irrelevant

I guess I also don't understand why you're looking at reporting to the Rhythmic panel as being "banished" - the Rhythmic format isn't inferior to CHR/Pop - it's just a different format

I don't personally look at being moved to the Rhythmic panel as a punishment- but there are people who work in the business end of radio that see the potential loss of ad revenue from being moved to the Rhythmic panel. It almost seems silly today, since the CHR mainstream and rhythmic charts are so similar, that there would be a marked distinction. However, mainstream CHRs are seen as serving a more saleable demo- whether it is deserved or not. Its certainly an old school line of thinking, but it proves correct in terms of billing.

 

[atlantaboy]

but there are people who work in the business end of radio that see the potential loss of ad revenue from being moved to the Rhythmic panel.

Lol I had a pretty strong feeling this was true - I kept posting this on multiple threads, and people kept claiming that classification as CHR vs. Rhythmic has nothing to do with advertising revenue:

At least now I know why so many posters have such strong opposition to CBS stations being moved to the Rhythmic panel

And thank you for being honest, man

 

[acesup]

Who cares? The charts are overrated. Any PD that programs solely based on what the numbers say on a national level is a PD that I would love to compete against. Program for your market, not what the country as a whole is doing.