WAAF

[macattack]

That's a darn good analysis, macattack.

I'm inclined to agree with you. I think a KPNT-like sound would be good for WAAF. However, I think WAAF should steer clear of artists such as Coldplay and Tom Petty. Frankly, texturally speaking, a KPNT-like approach would be similar to the music direction the station took in the late 90's and early 00's.

In terms of filling in analog coverage gaps for WAAF's programming, I wonder if a translator station for WEEI-HD2 would be viable? I realize the FM dial in that part of New England is very cluttered, so I have no idea if any open/viable channels even exist.

Both KPNT and WCYY play Petty in circumstantial situations... KPNT keeps Petty restricted to "Wayback at 6/Wayback Weekend" programming that is heavily 90's-based, while WCYY keeps a couple of Petty songs on light rotation. What's the same between them are the chosen songs... "Change of Heart", "Mary Jane's Last Dance", "You Wreck Me", "You Don't Know How It Feels", "Out in the Cold", "Runnin' Down a Dream", and the immortal "American Girl". They are highly specific choices, and leave out a huge chunk of Petty's hits.

KPNT plays a lot of Counting Crows, Blues Traveler, Gin Blossoms, and Wallflowers during "Wayback" programming, and those specific Petty songs blend in well with that kind of roots-y alternative rock, plus KPNT also likes to fit Black Crowes into the "Wayback" segments as well. WCYY keeps both Petty and Black Crowes on light rotation, and I suspect it's because of Portland's dominant music station, classic rocker WBLM, which routinely gets 10 shares. They probably spin Petty and Black Crowes to get the attention of more impatient WBLM listeners during commercial breaks, and maybe they might get those listeners to stick around for 10-20 minutes and hear what else they have to offer. That's just my guess for WCYY's logic.

That being said, Coldplay was just an example of a softer artist that I came up with at 2 in the morning, I would agree to leave them out of a hybrid playlist realistically. Black Keys, The Head in the Heart, Cold War Kids, even Lana Del Rey (who is getting spun by KFMA in addition to KPNT and WCYY) are better "softer" choices for a hybrid format. More indie rock, less indie pop (though Twenty-One Pilots is probably unavoidable).

What do you and others think of Vermont's The Point (WNCS Montpelier and its statewide network)? It has the present/past mix macattack noted in his hybrid examples, but could be short on the active rock "kick" suggested for such stations. Of course, largely rural Vermont has a much different musical and lifestyle vibe to it than MetroWest and Boston do, so maybe the mellower approach is a response to the nature of the market. Can you see the format working on a Boston-area station as currently done (with Boston-area bands taking the place of Vermont bands on the playlist) or would a much harder approach be appropriate?

Boston's most famous non-rap artists include Aerosmith, Boston, Godsmack, Dropkick Murphys, Letters to Cleo (albeit they're more of a one-hit wonder nationally), Powerman 5000, Ice Nine Kills, The Lemonheads... The only "mellow" artist that's really broken out is Guster. Sad to say this, but a Boston alt probably needs quite a bit of active rock spice.

 

[TheBigA]

Sad to say this, but a Boston alt probably needs quite a bit of active rock spice.

Hmmm, so then why blow up Boston's only active rocker for alt? I can understand that people have their personal preferences, but replacing formats means fans of active rock get screwed.

This week, they added the new Green Day and Weezer. Those seem like good adds to me.

 

[MarkW]

Agreed. Pure alternative would perform even worse on that signal than the format that's there today.

 

[macattack]

Hmmm, so then why blow up Boston's only active rocker for alt? I can understand that people have their personal preferences, but replacing formats means fans of active rock get screwed.

This week, they added the new Green Day and Weezer. Those seem like good adds to me.

I'm not sure if blowing up WAAF into an alt is the answer. It's possible that the ratings could go up as a lot of the edgy rock Boston's sent out into the world can or did cross over into alt at one point or another, so keep enough active stuff around to satisfy active rock fans while giving an opportunity for alt fans to join the party. But doing an active-leaning hybrid is the ONLY way an alt will work in Boston, I'm pretty sure of that. Going pure alt? You'll be lucky to get a 1 share.

And I agree. Green Day and Weezer's new songs represent a lost art: the active/alternative crossover. Both songs are great.

Agreed. Pure alternative would perform even worse on that signal than the format that's there today.

If I were to guess the alt fanbase in Boston would be barely enough to get a 1 share if that. There just is no market for alternative/indie pop there
.
If WAAF were to be flipped, the goal would be to get WAAF to a 2.3-2.7 share. That'd be enough for viability. Get the 1 share that the alt fans will give you without giving up the 1.3-1.7 share of active rock fans. It'd be tricky but I think it's doable.

Here's the last two hours of WAAF programming 12-2 pm this Sunday.

12:00 pm EST:

1. Killing In The Name Of - Rage Against the Machine
2. No More - Disturbed (current)
3. Dream on - Aerosmith
4. My Own Worst Enemy - Lit
5. Through Glass - Stone Sour
6. Panama - Van Halen
7. Fell On Black Days - Soundgarden
8. Remember When - Bad Wolves (recent recurrent)
9. She - Green Day
10. Kryptonite - 3 Doors Down
11. Today - Smashing Pumpkins
12. I Will Not Bow - Breaking Benjamin
13. Nightrain - Guns N Roses
14. Inside Out - Eve 6

1:00 PM EST:

1. Ramble On - Led Zeppelin
2. Panic Attack - The Glorious Sons (current)
3. In Bloom - Nirvana
4. Hells Bells - AC/DC
5. Breaking the Girl - Red Hot Chili Peppers
6. Wasting Time - Kid Rock
7. Santeria - Sublime
8. When I'm Gone - Dirty Honey (current)
9. Dragula - Rob Zombie
10. Back In the Saddle - Aerosmith
11. Californication - Red Hot Chili Peppers
12. White Wedding - Billy Idol
13. Be Legendary - Pop Evil
14. Down - 311

I'm going to alternative-ize these two hours in a second post. Give me a few.

 

[macattack]

Here's the last two hours Monday morning quarterbacked by me.

12:00 pm EST:

1. Killing In The Name Of - Rage Against the Machine
2. No More - Disturbed (current)
3. Face to the Floor - Chevelle
4. My Own Worst Enemy - Lit
5. Through Glass - Stone Sour
6. Crowbar - Frank Carter & The Rattlesnakes (current)
7. Fell On Black Days - Soundgarden
8. The Violence - Rise Against (recent recurrent)
9. Father of All - Green Day (current)
10. Kryptonite - 3 Doors Down
11. Today - Smashing Pumpkins
12. I Will Not Bow - Breaking Benjamin
13. Alligator - Of Monsters and Men (current)
14. Inside Out - Eve 6

1:00 PM EST:

1. What's The Frequency, Kenneth? - R.E.M.
2. Panic Attack - The Glorious Sons (current)
3. In Bloom - Nirvana
4. She's Kerosene - The Interrupters (recent recurrent)
5. Rose Tattoo - Dropkick Murphys
6. Help Me Stranger - The Raconteurs (current)
7. Santeria - Sublime
8. Sex On Fire - Kings of Leon
9. I Dare You - The Regrettes (current)
10. Shake Me Down - Cage The Elephant
11. Californication - Red Hot Chili Peppers
12. White Wedding - Billy Idol
13. The Hunted - Saint Asonia feat. Sully Erna (current)
14. Down - 311

I admit I am an amateur at this so I apologize if I did anything boneheaded. My goal was to keep as many of the songs from the real-life two hours on the playlist as possible while squeezing in some alt-y fare that could blend in, and also juice up the currents slightly. I think that if WAAF was programmed like this, with still a clear edge to the rock fare, and slipping in occasional 80's songs (note that I left White Wedding in there) in addition to 90's, 00's, and 10's fare, it could work.

 

[TheBigA]

If I were to guess the alt fanbase in Boston would be barely enough to get a 1 share if that. There just is no market for alternative/indie pop there

And the reason in my view is because of the strong college radio presence in the market.

 

[macattack]

And the reason in my view is because of the strong college radio presence in the market.

That's actually how I came up with my 1 share estimation, by researching the Boston area college stations. I think we are on the same page as far as this is concerned.

 

[Big Bunny]

Looks like LB is gone, fortunately for Mr. Hsu in the afternoon. Unconfirmed observation...

macattack, I like where you went with the revised playlist. The Aerosmith, VH, Zeppelin and the like just have to go. Leave that to ZLX and their clones. The Billy Idol and REM probably need to get replaced also. Some more heavier stuff sprinkled in to complement the Chevelle track, etc., would be benefit the "really rocks" label WAAF gave themselves all those years ago. There is a ton of new rock out there to play, it's been quite confusing since I moved back to Boston last year how little hard rock there is on the radio in this "rock and roll town".

 

[TheBigA]

macattack, I like where you went with the revised playlist. The Aerosmith, VH, Zeppelin and the like just have to go. Leave that to ZLX and their clones.

Drop the old stuff and a big chunk of the audience walks away. There's a reason why they do what they do. It gets the best numbers they can get.

 

[Big Bunny]

I’m that case the reasoning is flawed , didn’t they already leave? Hence the lousy and constantly falling ratings..,

Just so many options for that kind of music that won’t plop in the latest Breaking Benjamin that would cause the geezers to wince.

 

[TheBigA]

I’m that case the reasoning is flawed , didn’t they already leave? Hence the lousy and constantly falling ratings..,

That only works if playing the new music attracts a larger audience.

 

[MarkW]

Drop the old stuff and a big chunk of the audience walks away.

The audience that wants to hear "the old stuff" has already walked away; they're listening to Rock 92.9 (as wretched as I find Rock 92.9's playlist personally). Trying to compete with classic rock stations with superior metro-wide signals is silly.

 

[TheBigA]

Trying to compete with classic rock stations with superior metro-wide signals is silly.

They're not competing with classic rock. They play newer music than either of those stations, plus they play some currents.

No one is playing those currents in Boston.

 

[macattack]

macattack, I like where you went with the revised playlist. The Aerosmith, VH, Zeppelin and the like just have to go. Leave that to ZLX and their clones. The Billy Idol and REM probably need to get replaced also. Some more heavier stuff sprinkled in to complement the Chevelle track, etc., would be benefit the "really rocks" label WAAF gave themselves all those years ago. There is a ton of new rock out there to play, it's been quite confusing since I moved back to Boston last year how little hard rock there is on the radio in this "rock and roll town".

Thanks. As someone who'll probably never program a radio station for real I appreciate the compliment.

That playlist was an exercise in an earlier theory, that perhaps WAAF's fortunes would improve by becoming an active-leaning alternative. If I were to repeat this exercise with WAAF but as a full active, I would not be adding R.E.M., I assure you that much, and I would not have pulled the Dirty Honey cut either. I also would not pull Aerosmith even though they're an awkward fit on a full active, as they are Boston boys and exceptions always have to be made for the locals, plus Aerosmith also pulled off the staggering feat of being relevant across four decades (70's, 80's, 90's, and 00's). That's legendary status right there, and you can't throw it away.

80's rock is getting long in the tooth but I don't think we're quite at the point where it can be pulled outright. It's skirting the outer edges of 25-54. I think by 2025 or so the 80's can be phased out entirely, but I think decreasing reliance on such music, but not eliminating that decade entirely, is prudent. The time's also approaching to seriously consider giving the 00's and 10's more prominence on the playlist over the 90's as well. If you do it right, the next five years or so will be a special listening experience, as you can capture four decades of rock music plus the new music from the 2020s that we have yet to hear.

They're not competing with classic rock. They play newer music than either of those stations, plus they play some currents.

No one is playing those currents in Boston.

If they're not competing with classic rock, why are they playing classic rock then? I think that's what Mark and Big Bunny are trying to say.

Pink Floyd meshes about as well with Ice Nine Kills as oil does with water. Not to mention that WAAF will also play Killers, Franz Ferdinand, and even Red Jumpsuit Apparatus, music you'd be more likely to find on an alternative station (even today).

A radio station can, at best, wear two hats. Most of the time they're better off with one, and the second hat only comes into play in special circumstances. WAAF seems to be trying to do three or four hats at once, with its strange playlist of classic rock, active rock, and alternative rock. The playlist at its worst is more discombobulated than a Spotify playlist going haywire. The only format I've heard this trick pulled off remotely competently is AAA, and even there some stations don't pull it off right.

You may be able to make a black hat and a white hat mesh with your outfits and image, but good luck trying to make a neon pink one work. WAAF should decide what the neon pink hat is, and do it without blowing up the station outright. It just seems to need more focus, and a facelift wouldn't hurt. At the same time, I don't have access to the numbers Entercom has, so if anyone from Entercom pays this thread a visit I hope they enjoy a good laugh at my expense.

 

[MarkW]

They're not competing with classic rock. They play newer music than either of those stations, plus they play some currents.

No one is playing those currents in Boston.

If you think there isn't substantial overlap between the demographic target of WAAF and, say, Rock 92.9 - all I can say is I disagree with you 100%.

The emergence of Rock 92.9 has undoubtedly hurt WAAF's numbers, in my opinion.

And if you look at the stations with whom Active Rock generally cross-cumes, I assure you Classic Rock formatted stations are at or very near the top of the list.

 

[TheBigA]

If they're not competing with classic rock, why are they playing classic rock then? I think that's what Mark and Big Bunny are trying to say.

Because they have determined their audience likes a combination of older rock and newer rock. Classic rock as a format doesn't play any current music. This station does. Is there some overlap or sharing? I'm sure there is. But they're two distinct formats and presentations. They have determined the audience for a narrow currents-only station isn't viable given the signal and other factors. This is not uncommon with the rock format. Remember the goal here is to attract an audience to sell advertising. They have determined they will not improve their ratings situation by dropping the older music.

 

[TheBigA]

The emergence of Rock 92.9 has undoubtedly hurt WAAF's numbers, in my opinion.

At the same time, WAAF lost its 30-year morning host Greg Hill to co-owned WEEI. I'd suggest that also played a part in the summer ratings.

 

[macattack]

If you think there isn't substantial overlap between the demographic target of WAAF and, say, Rock 92.9 - all I can say is I disagree with you 100%.

The emergence of Rock 92.9 has undoubtedly hurt WAAF's numbers, in my opinion.

And if you look at the stations with whom Active Rock generally cross-cumes, I assure you Classic Rock formatted stations are at or very near the top of the list.

Hell, at 2:19 EST, both WBOS 92.9 and WAAF 107.3 both spun a Pearl Jam song at the exact same time, and WAAF actually spun a slightly older song - "Jeremy", while WBOS spun "Betterman". They are directly competing against each other and about 75% of their playlists co-mingle, and WBOS is even brave enough to drop Linkin Park's "Crawling" into the playlist as well, making them one the most progressive classic rock stations I have seen yet, considering "Crawling" will only turn 20 years old next year.

If you are a fan of 80's and 90's rock, WBOS is probably the preferred choice. I fear the invasion of David Draiman and his "staccato monkey noises" is imminent, but right now if you don't want to deal with that, WBOS is the place to go.

(For the record I like "Down With The Sickness" and a lot of Disturbed's catalog in general, but I know both the song and the artist are hit or miss with a lot of rock purists).

Because they have determined their audience likes a combination of older rock and newer rock. Classic rock as a format doesn't play any current music. This station does. Is there some overlap or sharing? I'm sure there is. But they're two distinct formats and presentations. They have determined the audience for a narrow currents-only station isn't viable given the signal and other factors. This is not uncommon with the rock format. Remember the goal here is to attract an audience to sell advertising. They have determined they will not improve their ratings situation by dropping the older music.

As I pointed out in the above, especially in the daytime, WBOS and WAAF co-mingle a lot, right down to occasionally spinning the same artist at the exact same time.

I also would not consider dropping 70's rock as becoming "a narrow currents only" station. 1970 is about to be 50 years ago. Using 1980 as a starting point just means you're willing to go back to 40 years ago to play recurrents. The 70's time has passed. The 1970s, bless that decade and its variety of excellent rock music, is retreating into the ether and out of the demographic WAAF wants.

Retreating only so far as 1980 still leaves Ozzy's entire solo catalog open (let's just count 1979 as part of 1980 so "Crazy Train" and "I Don't Know" can stay). Def Leppard's zillion hits. Motley Crue. George Thorogood. Still a ton of classic Rolling Stones cuts if necessary. Most of Tom Petty's catalog. The entire Aerosmith renaissance period. Most of Bruce Springsteen. Bob Seger. The Pretenders. The list goes on and on and on.

I'm not sure if their ratings situation would improve by dropping the 70's music, but I don't see how it'll get any better considering fans of 70's rock have WBOS, WZLX, and top of the market WROR all at their disposal. Those three stations also play a ton of 1980's rock as well.

I think WAAF either has to get more active and drop their sporadic alternative cuts and some of the classic stuff, or they have to replace the classic rock with energetic (key word there, no Foster The People, no Billie Eilish, no Portugal The Man) alternative while continuing to play new and classic active rock. Otherwise the attrition will only continue.

 

[TheBigA]

I think WAAF either has to get more active and drop their sporadic alternative cuts and some of the classic stuff, or they have to replace the classic rock with energetic (key word there, no Foster The People, no Billie Eilish, no Portugal The Man) alternative while continuing to play new and classic active rock. Otherwise the attrition will only continue.

That's fine. You're welcome to your opinion, but as I said, they have determined this is their best course of action to attract the kind of audience they seek.

 

[macattack]

That's fine. You're welcome to your opinion, but as I said, they have determined this is their best course of action to attract the kind of audience they seek.

That's fine as well. Without access to their data, projections, and such, all I can do is offer the most informed opinion I can.

(Also, WBOS isn't as wretched as I expected. Wretched is the experience of Merlin Media's infamous 200-song loop on WLUP 97.9 after they took that station over. With only sporadic changes to the order and without any significant song changes. Randy Michaels, master of radio, everyone).